Why race change?

PrinceFabious

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

UltimaJoe777

It isn't that large an impact and overall people choose race for personal preference and RP purposes. Also they added it because so many asked for it.

holosoul

because this is a game
long term consequences as a result of ignorance is unfair and unfun
the race of your first character should not be a long term punishing consequence, considering it doesn't even list the racials on character create and you probably have no idea what the game will even be like

either way I'm glad your side of the argument didn't ruin everyone's fun in the end
not even salty, I have both an imperial and altmer sorc
I just think you're wrong that hard

UltimaJoe777

holosoul wrote: »

because this is a game
long term consequences as a result of ignorance is unfair and unfun
the race of your first character should not be a long term punishing consequence, considering it doesn't even list the racials on character create and you probably have no idea what the game will even be like

either way I'm glad your side of the argument didn't ruin everyone's fun in the end
not even salty, I have both an imperial and altmer sorc
I just think you're wrong that hard

You're not exactly correct yourself. Your first character you choose your race specifically off preference because you know nothing about the game's mechanics at that point. That's when you start making alts. Again though they aren't THAT big an impact in this one.

Abeille

Unfortunately, the game changed.

It is not fair to punish people who choose a race when race didn't matter much, back when we had soft caps (oh how I miss them...). And I'm speaking as someone who does not plan on using this feature.

Oh, and race change is a thing in the game already. There is at least one NPC in this game that changes his race (a Dunmer in Greenshade). He temporarily becomes an Argonian by drinking a potion, but his objective is to become a Khajiit permanently.

Miszou

I'm crossing my fingers that the race change will cost thousands of crowns, so my Argonian can keep her skin moist in the tears of rage on the forums.

Khaos_Bane

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

Make better racials for the other races then. Or let race PURELY BE FOR LOOKS and let us pick the "racials".

Khaos_Bane

Abeille wrote: »

Unfortunately, the game changed.

It is not fair to punish people who choose a race when race didn't matter much, back when we had soft caps (oh how I miss them...). And I'm speaking as someone who does not plan on using this feature.

Oh, and race change is a thing in the game already. There is at least one NPC in this game that changes his race (a Dunmer in Greenshade). He temporarily becomes an Argonian by drinking a potion, but his objective is to become a Khajiit permanently.

No kidding, I miss soft caps as well, what I would give to go back.

Abeille

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Unfortunately, the game changed.

It is not fair to punish people who choose a race when race didn't matter much, back when we had soft caps (oh how I miss them...). And I'm speaking as someone who does not plan on using this feature.

Oh, and race change is a thing in the game already. There is at least one NPC in this game that changes his race (a Dunmer in Greenshade). He temporarily becomes an Argonian by drinking a potion, but his objective is to become a Khajiit permanently.

No kidding, I miss soft caps as well, what I would give to go back.

I'm glad I am not alone. I think it was the most lore-accurate way to work with the racial passives. You would get a headstart if you choose a race that was naturally inclined towards a certain build, but with "work and dedication" (in gameplay terms, "the right gear and attributes"), anyone of any race could excel. I mean, Shalidor was a Nord!

Khaos_Bane

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It isn't that large an impact and overall people choose race for personal preference and RP purposes. Also they added it because so many asked for it.

I disagree. I don't think the majority of people pick race for RP purposes. I think you are overestimating the amount of people that do something for RP.

I think a lot of people requested it because they picked a race and found out that it makes a difference in end game gear choices and min/max. That's my opinion anyway.

UltimaJoe777

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It isn't that large an impact and overall people choose race for personal preference and RP purposes. Also they added it because so many asked for it.

I disagree. I don't think the majority of people pick race for RP purposes. I think you are overestimating the amount of people that do something for RP.

I think a lot of people requested it because they picked a race and found out that it makes a difference in end game gear choices and min/max. That's my opinion anyway.

Well then let's just see shall we?

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Then dont play the game go RP this wont affect you

Autolycus

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

I both agree and disagree. This is the first multiplayer ES game. As such, a different model is necessary. The impact of 1,000 hours time invested in a character in an MMO is drastically different than 1,000 hours invested in a single player game. In the case of the latter, one of the primary factors to consider is that it's not just you who is effected by this decision. Your friends and guildmates will all have to accept your decision to re-roll, and will have to wait for you to reach level cap, unlock all of your passives, gain access to all of your skills, upgrade your mounts, etc. In a single-player game, it's all on you. As such, the ability to re-roll race only has a drastic impact on the experience of multiple people.

Consider also the idea that racial passives have been edited and/or reworked numerous times since a considerable number of people designed their characters. I have 3 characters that I created during Early Access of this game. One of them has had their racial passives changed twice since then. Since it was not my desire for this to occur (b/c I liked the passives the way they were), nor was it my decision, the responsibility for allowing a change should fall to ZOS. Imho it should be free from the perspective of real money, and the system should be done entirely with in-game currency.

Don't get me wrong, though. I have two characters which I would not change even if they completely butchered the passives, because for those characters, race plays integral role in the character's lore. Still, with 200+ days of time invested in a single character, the impact of changing passives is literally over half a year's worth of time invested. They cannot give that back. The only option at this point is to give people the option to accommodate the changes of the developers.

Games change and are designed, modified, added to, and scrapped on a regular basis, and ESO is no different. But consider for a moment that there may be others out there, like you, who chose their character's race with the idea that it would be a permanent and impactful decision, only to have those passives modified to the point of being undesirable. Really, it's just two sides of the same coin. In the end, adding the option for race change is the Utilitarian decision, that is, it benefits the most people, and as such, I support it.

Junkogen

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

The fact that you perceive it as PTW means the racial passives are imbalanced. If they would balance the racials, your argument would be moot. What irritates me is that everyone knows they're imbalanced, but ZOS refuses to change them. I really wish they'd just balance the racials. I really do. You pointed it out yourself, Redguard and Altmer shine with how they've designed the game while other races like Argonians are relegated to niche builds that are barely practical. Heck, the glyphs of potion speed don't even work.

It's not really pay to win, though, because you can reroll a different race at any time. This is a convenience item much the same as the riding skill boosts. It saves the player time, which is, to me, the most precious commodity.

Alpheu5

As long as passives and race stay dependent and it's impossible to see a Redguard with Amphibious, I'll have no quarrel. If you want my passives, you'll have to get the whole tail-and-scales package.

Argonian sorcerers are already something I hardly see in Cyrodiil. At least with this there'll be a near-zero chance of running into someone that's adapted to my rotation.

Junkogen

Alpheu5 wrote: »

As long as passives and race stay dependent and it's impossible to see a Redguard with Amphibious, I'll have no quarrel. If you want my passives, you'll have to get the whole tail-and-scales package.

Lol. People will be clamoring to get at that OP swim speed, for sure. Planet of the Lizards is nigh in Tamriel!

Van_0S

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

Just pretend that it never happened.(race change)

And its ZO$ fault for these unbalance not players.

Yinmaigao

In case you didn't notice, NONE of the decisions player characters make have a meaningful impact on the game.

SwaminoNowlino

Race change is a nice option that can have as much or as little impact on you as you desire. If you want to stay how you are for whatever reason, no one is making you change.

For me however, when I started playing I made an Imperial Stamplar. I wanted a balanced character that wasn't quite as squishy. What I couldn't have known is that Templar abilities are fairly expensive when you compare them, and sustain is an issue for me. So I'll likely switch this guy to Redguard.

Additionally, I made other characters at the same time in order to start their ride training. One such was a Stamina Nightblade, who I made a Wood Elf. Once I was ready to play this guy, I now really wish I would have made a Khajit, but I don't want to reroll because the mount is maxed out. So I'm happy to now have the option.

Not everything is about min/maxing. Folks who made characters for RP purposes obviously didn't care about passives and likely won't after. Things like this, that give others options, can only impact your experience if you let them.

Autolycus

Yinmaigao wrote: »

In case you didn't notice, NONE of the decisions player characters make have a meaningful impact on the game.

You saved Glenumbra? I guess I'm impressed....


... Or I would be, had I not just seen 7 million other people do the same thing.

Robbmrp

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Has anyone else played other Elder Scrolls games? Why not let the important decisions such as picking your race be impactfull. Now we have the easy button race change. Come on ZOS. This game is on the way to be Pay to win. Now everyone will be High Elf for magicka and Red Guard for stam. Rip Diversity

How is that end result different than someone just making one of those now? They only get to skip the leveling part of it. The end result would still be the same, that class in the race they wanted. This at least gives someone the ability to try out different races on their favorite character. Who knows, they could end up with a Bosmer Magplar and find they have a ton more fun with it than their high elf.

nordsavage

Maybe if you read one of the many other threads on this you would realize that gameplay and racial passive have been altered so much since that race change is warranted.

Reevster

7 million players paying say $40 for a race change....

Its all propaganda playing on your minds to "want" race change.

In the end a race change wont help you play any better, but you will be a bit lighter in the pockets.

Zinaroth

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO wrote: »

Then dont play the game go RP this wont affect you

This.

rotaugen454

Because I found out that I identify as Redguard, not Nord.

Autolycus

Reevster wrote: »

7 million players paying say $40 for a race change....

Its all propaganda playing on your minds to "want" race change.

In the end a race change wont help you play any better, but you will be a bit lighter in the pockets.

All content in this game is completable by characters who are not racially min/maxed. That much is true.

To say that a race change will not help you better is also true. Here we are distinguishing between character potential and player skill.

Race change does afford for higher character potential. Those that would pursue a racial min/max are statistically proven to reach higher thresholds in their respective roles. Such is the nature of min/maxing. Over the course of this game's history since inception, racial min/maxing has become more and more pronounced, to the point that remaining competitive with those that racially min/max is not feasible. Two players of equal "player skill" will not perform at the same thresholds if one is racially min/maxed, and the other is not. As such, the option to pursue that goal of being competitive in endgame content is a big QOL improvement for a lot of people.

Magnys

I'm actually happy for this. With recent changes to classes and stamina/magicka abilities this only makes sense in my opinion.

emily3989

There is a huge demand for it and ZOS can make a killing off of it. Every DLC they can basically tweak stuff to change out the FOTM and sell endless amounts of these race change scrolls to the people that think it actually matters.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Reevster wrote: »

7 million players paying say $40 for a race change....

Its all propaganda playing on your minds to "want" race change.

In the end a race change wont help you play any better, but you will be a bit lighter in the pockets.

.. but what about those extra 3k max resources or 200 recovery... surely they'll stop me dying in <5 seconds

Unsent.Soul

Race change = on our way to P2W? Wow... Rather huge leap you took there from one point to the next...

dodgehopper_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It isn't that large an impact and overall people choose race for personal preference and RP purposes. Also they added it because so many asked for it.

People have asked for it because of two major reasons:

1) Race matters, a lot. This kills the diversity one would want to be able to play, and I personally think that making race
such an important part of a character decision will funnel people into very narrow choices. I do not see how this is good
for the game. It would be a different story if this game were a skill-based system like previous TES games instead of one with rigid classes. The statement that previous TES games had classes is utterly preposterous. Previous TES games did have classes, but you must recognize that those classes had complete freedom to learn and specialize in whatever skills they wanted.

2) Game design has changed so drastically, so many times that builds which once worked fantastically have stumbled into the gutter.


Because of these two reasons many people want to be able to change their race to fix a failure in balance. The failure in Balance is ZoS error, not the players, and I personally think it is a travesty that someone should have to chance race for the sake of keeping up with the joneses. This is a flawed decision on the part of the developers in terms of game design, though it is probably a bright decision on the business side. This type of decision is exactly what rubs me wrong about a lot of MMO's. I do not mind being charged with something that brings value, but when something is specifically wrong with game design and is then profited from, it really chaps my hide. I'd like to point out this is not the straw that breaks the camel's back for me, but it is a straw. I believe if they continue to make a good effort to make balance between the classes, then a race change will be irrelevant to me, so this is something they can certainly repair.