psychotic13 wrote: »

Drinks are far from weak, and if you could use both at once then that would make them pointless.

You contradict yourself. If you think drinks are "far from weak", then being able to use both food and drinks wouldn't make them pointless. In fact, it would be the complete opposite of what you said.

Drinks are nowhere near weak, just because you don't find use for them doesn't mean others do. Adding 450 odd regen is huge!

Health vs Health Regen

Provisioning (Food vs Drink) -> 6608 : 660 = 10.012
Set Bonus -> 1064 : 129 = 8.248
Mundus -> 1280 : 210 = 6.095

I would like to see more stat/regen combo foods as in orsinium... like 2 regen/1 stat or 2stat/1 regen purple quality and 2/2 gold quality (preferably with reasonable mat requirements and not perfect roe)

psychotic13 wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Drinks are far from weak, and if you could use both at once then that would make them pointless.

You contradict yourself. If you think drinks are "far from weak", then being able to use both food and drinks wouldn't make them pointless. In fact, it would be the complete opposite of what you said.

How is that a contradiction?

It would be pointless being able to use both, every player would have the exact same bonuses, and in that case why even have bonuses? You may aswel just not have food and drinks.

Drinks are good for PvP, food is good for PvE it's always been that way. (Not saying you can't use one for either, but fights last longer in PvP so sustain is more important)

Of course it's a contradiction. I explained exactly how it was.

Your reasoning just proves my point - just about everyone already uses food in PvE, and many for PvP, which means just about everyone has the same bonuses. Does that mean food is useless? Funny logic - get out of my thread.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Since food raises max stats while also boosts skill power, why are drinks' regen so weak? This seems like yet another negative side-effect of making skills scale with max resources.

Ideally, scaling based on max resources would simply be removed, and that would fix a plethora of issues (unbalanced racial traits, set bonuses, magic shield strength vs defense investment, etc.).

Barring that, here are a few different ideas in order to make drinks as desirable as food:

-Simply increase drink regen (maybe 25%?).
-Make skill strength scale with current, instead of max resources.
-Weaken both food and drinks, and allow the use of both at once.
-Add a small max-resource bonus to drinks, so that they offer both regen and higher max stats (maybe 20% of what food offers?).
-Give drinks a bonus to skill power (damage, healing, shield strength, etc.), to make it on par with max stats from food.

Scale like radiant destruction? No thanks....

I typically use the Orzoga that raises health plus primary stat. You can have it all!!!

Out of the innumerable amount of ways the system can be implemented, you only thought of a single particular example that you don't like, which I never even remotely suggested at all.

I don't understand why people like you post on these forums. It's just spam to be honest.

Vangy wrote: »

Drinks are weak?.....

Literally every half decent stamina toon is running drinks in PvP...... Food is just generally better in PvE when you have a templar shard slave/blue balls+ ele drain slave to keep you topped up....... You can have 50k max resource but that wont do you any good if your resource pool runs dry......

People think drinks are weak cos all raid healers are kinda forced to run support skills to push min maxing into oblivion.... Try running a raid group with all healers NOT running shards or blue balls or ele drain. 99% of the so called "best-dpsers" in this game will do nowhere near the 50k dps parses that everyone keeps posting...

I know the value of my healers. Their warhorn. Their shards. Their blue balls. Their ele drain. Their combat prayer. Their SPC... They are the true unsung heroes who allow me to run a 44k stam pool with 600 stam rec while cranking out 50k+ DPS lol. If a good healer isnt around... My toon will run out of resource in about 40 seconds lol... Even with pots....

Like another poster, you just proved my point. Most people are using food for PvE, and probably around half for PvP. The difference is obviously due to skills scaling off max resource. If foods and drinks were similar is usefulness, you'd see around 50/50 in usage.

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Drinks are weak?.....

Literally every half decent stamina toon is running drinks in PvP...... Food is just generally better in PvE when you have a templar shard slave/blue balls+ ele drain slave to keep you topped up....... You can have 50k max resource but that wont do you any good if your resource pool runs dry......

People think drinks are weak cos all raid healers are kinda forced to run support skills to push min maxing into oblivion.... Try running a raid group with all healers NOT running shards or blue balls or ele drain. 99% of the so called "best-dpsers" in this game will do nowhere near the 50k dps parses that everyone keeps posting...

I know the value of my healers. Their warhorn. Their shards. Their blue balls. Their ele drain. Their combat prayer. Their SPC... They are the true unsung heroes who allow me to run a 44k stam pool with 600 stam rec while cranking out 50k+ DPS lol. If a good healer isnt around... My toon will run out of resource in about 40 seconds lol... Even with pots....

Like another poster, you just proved my point. Most people are using food for PvE, and probably around half for PvP. The difference is obviously due to skills scaling off max resource. If foods and drinks were similar is usefulness, you'd see around 50/50 in usage.

Like many have already said. You are cherry picking..... Both drinks and food are useful in their own regard. What do you want drinks to do? Give even more regen then they already do?? Making skills not scale off max resource is never gona happen. Cos of racials and other stuff that this game is already built upon. I see no way around this without reintroduction of soft caps.

I'm not cherry picking. I'm simply stating an observation - one that nobody can disagree with (including you).

As for your contrived questions - I've already explained my ideas in the very first post of the thread.

Ffastyl wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

-Make skill strength scale with current, instead of max resources.

This will bring a lot of skill to combat!
Oblivion had this implemented with Fatigue (Stamina), and while players could attack without Fatigue, it hit like a wet noodle. Attacking from full Fatigue would deal several times more damage than without and could end fights in a couple swings as opposed to dozens.

This seriously doesn't sound bad at all!

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

[spam redacted]
...
Understand my POV or should I just accept this as a lost cause?
...
[spam redacted]

I know your POV but it's irrelevant. Just about everyone realizes that drinks can be better sometimes. That's the whole point of this thread - sometimes. Food is generally more desirable, which shouldn't be the case.

..... I find your QQ irrelevant too.... PvP is 50% of the game lol.... I assure you a LOT more than 50% of players run drinks in PvP.... Which kinda makes the whole basis of your argument moot that drinks are hardly ever used. PvE food is GENERALLY better. PvP drinks are GENERALLY better. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong. Its an even steven banana split between food and drinks. I dont understand why you think drinks are hardly ever used. Or only sometimes used. They are used a LOT. The combination foods that combo both drinks and foods are just as popular. Imo things like orgoza's dont belong to food or drinks category imo. Cos they give both the benefits of food and drinks. Its just that the devs decided to classify them as food.

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

[spam redacted]
...
Understand my POV or should I just accept this as a lost cause?
...
[spam redacted]

I know your POV but it's irrelevant. Just about everyone realizes that drinks can be better sometimes. That's the whole point of this thread - sometimes. Food is generally more desirable, which shouldn't be the case.

..... I find your QQ irrelevant too.... PvP is 50% of the game lol.... I assure you a LOT more than 50% of players run drinks in PvP.... Which kinda makes the whole basis of your argument moot.

Nah, sounds like you're "QQ"ing over my suggestion, which is hilarious.

Still waiting for evidence that drinks are hardly ever used..... Still waiting on some concrete piece of fact that can point to why food is so OP. Both claims you've made with 0 backing. No point in me arguing any further if you arent gona give some concrete examples instead of QQ "I think food is more popular".

If damage stopped scaling on max stat, no one would use food. Regen would always be better. So then everyone in PvE would use drinks and everyone in PvP would use drinks. At least now people use both. And drinks are not just a PvP thing. A lot of PvE tanks use drinks. Once a tank has enough health to not get one-shot, resource management becomes more important than max stats.

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

[spam redacted]
...
Understand my POV or should I just accept this as a lost cause?
...
[spam redacted]

I know your POV but it's irrelevant. Just about everyone realizes that drinks can be better sometimes. That's the whole point of this thread - sometimes. Food is generally more desirable, which shouldn't be the case.

..... I find your QQ irrelevant too.... PvP is 50% of the game lol.... I assure you a LOT more than 50% of players run drinks in PvP.... Which kinda makes the whole basis of your argument moot.

Nah, sounds like you're "QQ"ing over my suggestion, which is hilarious.

Still waiting for evidence that drinks are hardly ever used..... Still waiting on some concrete piece of fact that can point to why food is so OP. Both claims you've made with 0 backing.

I didn't say drinks are hardly ever used. You literally just made that up right now. You've resorted to lying to try to pretend there's some support to your posts.

I think you're incapable of seeing my side of the argument, so you're just spamming my thread with the hope that I stop responding. Somehow, in your head, that means you win (reality check: it doesn't).

As for your "proof", besides the fact that the game mechanics blatantly point out that food raises skill power while regen does not - take a look at the market prices (check various guild traders) for berev juice vs frost mirriam. The market doesn't lie.

If you want to respond, next time do so without lying. If you can't do that, don't post in my thread.

.......

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Drinks are weak?.....

Literally every half decent stamina toon is running drinks in PvP...... Food is just generally better in PvE when you have a templar shard slave/blue balls+ ele drain slave to keep you topped up....... You can have 50k max resource but that wont do you any good if your resource pool runs dry......

People think drinks are weak cos all raid healers are kinda forced to run support skills to push min maxing into oblivion.... Try running a raid group with all healers NOT running shards or blue balls or ele drain. 99% of the so called "best-dpsers" in this game will do nowhere near the 50k dps parses that everyone keeps posting...

I know the value of my healers. Their warhorn. Their shards. Their blue balls. Their ele drain. Their combat prayer. Their SPC... They are the true unsung heroes who allow me to run a 44k stam pool with 600 stam rec while cranking out 50k+ DPS lol. If a good healer isnt around... My toon will run out of resource in about 40 seconds lol... Even with pots....

Like another poster, you just proved my point. Most people are using food for PvE, and probably around half for PvP. The difference is obviously due to skills scaling off max resource. If foods and drinks were similar is usefulness, you'd see around 50/50 in usage.

Essentially in your OWN words, you claim that probably only 25% of the player base uses drinks. This is far from the truth. So no. Im not inventing anything. Im just replying based on YOUR own claims.

1. You claim food is OP. You say it is more useful than drinks. Why? Cos it increases tooltips by 1k?
2. You claim only 25% of the player base uses drinks. How do you know this? I can assure you ive been around a lot longer and I think its an even 50-50 split. Burden of proof lies with the party claiming a change. Aka you.

I'm not seeing your side of the argument cos your entire argument is based on 2 premises that are completely false......

As for allowing both food and drinks, that is what Orsinium food is. They give both the benefits of food and drinks but at a slightly weaker combination. Allowing both food AND drinks as separate entities is insane. + 5k to max pools and an odd 500 regen.... The current meta is already where at people have infinite sustain... Sure lets give them 5k max resource pools too...... That will work out well (no it wont.) ..... Also, I dont favour removing making meaningful choices. Right now you can either have the teeny wee bit of extra damage or substantially more regen. People dont need the regen in PvE hence food is favoured while PvP, drinks are favoured. Its an even 50-50 split. No matter how much you QQ this is a fact.

So again... I ask you why you think food is OP and why you think barely anyone (25% of player base only) uses drinks... This time try to answer these questions with actual numbers/evidence instead of drivelling about with personal attacks and random nonsense.

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Drinks are weak?.....

Literally every half decent stamina toon is running drinks in PvP...... Food is just generally better in PvE when you have a templar shard slave/blue balls+ ele drain slave to keep you topped up....... You can have 50k max resource but that wont do you any good if your resource pool runs dry......

People think drinks are weak cos all raid healers are kinda forced to run support skills to push min maxing into oblivion.... Try running a raid group with all healers NOT running shards or blue balls or ele drain. 99% of the so called "best-dpsers" in this game will do nowhere near the 50k dps parses that everyone keeps posting...

I know the value of my healers. Their warhorn. Their shards. Their blue balls. Their ele drain. Their combat prayer. Their SPC... They are the true unsung heroes who allow me to run a 44k stam pool with 600 stam rec while cranking out 50k+ DPS lol. If a good healer isnt around... My toon will run out of resource in about 40 seconds lol... Even with pots....

Like another poster, you just proved my point. Most people are using food for PvE, and probably around half for PvP. The difference is obviously due to skills scaling off max resource. If foods and drinks were similar is usefulness, you'd see around 50/50 in usage.

Essentially in your OWN words, you claim that probably only 25% of the player base uses drinks. This is far from the truth. So no. Im not inventing anything. Im just replying based on YOUR own claims.

1. You claim food is OP. Why? Cos it increases tooltips by 1k?
2. You claim only 25% of the player base uses drinks. How do you know this? I can assure you ive been around a lot longer and I think its an even 50-50 split. Burden of proof lies with the party claiming a change. Aka you..
.
.
[spam redacted]
.
.

An estimation of 25% is a far cry from "hardly any", because, being the math genius you are, 1 in 4 is quite significant. I'm not sure why you keep pressing this lie. Stop wasting my time.

You can pretend that the market isn't trading Frost Mirriam at several times more than Bervez Juice, but you'd be living in your own fantasy land.

We can argue semantics all day long. The fact is, you are claiming that food is a lot more popular than drinks. With no evidence backing you.

You also havent addressed your other claim of food is OP. WHY? Im getting tired of asking this.

Your argument of frost mirriam and berev juice makes no sense. Where Im at, they cost about the same. How much exactly is the difference between frost mirrian and berev juice? The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food.... (they are by the way from my own experience). Or are you going to not answer my questions and keep QQ-ing and asking me to leave your thread.

Sorry. As long as you keep typing things without backing, Im gona keep calling you out on it.

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Drinks are weak?.....

Literally every half decent stamina toon is running drinks in PvP...... Food is just generally better in PvE when you have a templar shard slave/blue balls+ ele drain slave to keep you topped up....... You can have 50k max resource but that wont do you any good if your resource pool runs dry......

People think drinks are weak cos all raid healers are kinda forced to run support skills to push min maxing into oblivion.... Try running a raid group with all healers NOT running shards or blue balls or ele drain. 99% of the so called "best-dpsers" in this game will do nowhere near the 50k dps parses that everyone keeps posting...

I know the value of my healers. Their warhorn. Their shards. Their blue balls. Their ele drain. Their combat prayer. Their SPC... They are the true unsung heroes who allow me to run a 44k stam pool with 600 stam rec while cranking out 50k+ DPS lol. If a good healer isnt around... My toon will run out of resource in about 40 seconds lol... Even with pots....

Like another poster, you just proved my point. Most people are using food for PvE, and probably around half for PvP. The difference is obviously due to skills scaling off max resource. If foods and drinks were similar is usefulness, you'd see around 50/50 in usage.

Essentially in your OWN words, you claim that probably only 25% of the player base uses drinks. This is far from the truth. So no. Im not inventing anything. Im just replying based on YOUR own claims.

1. You claim food is OP. Why? Cos it increases tooltips by 1k?
2. You claim only 25% of the player base uses drinks. How do you know this? I can assure you ive been around a lot longer and I think its an even 50-50 split. Burden of proof lies with the party claiming a change. Aka you..
.
.
[spam redacted]
.
.

An estimation of 25% is a far cry from "hardly any", because, being the math genius you are, 1 in 4 is quite significant. I'm not sure why you keep pressing this lie. Stop wasting my time.

You can pretend that the market isn't trading Frost Mirriam at several times more than Bervez Juice, but you'd be living in your own fantasy land.

We can argue semantics all day long. The fact is, you are claiming that food is a lot more popular than drinks. With no evidence backing you.

You also havent addressed your other claim of food is OP. WHY? Im getting tired of asking this.

Your argument of frost mirriam and berev juice makes no sense. Where Im at, they cost about the same. How much exactly is the difference between frost mirrian and berev juice? Or are you going to not answer my questions and keep QQ-ing and asking me to leave your thread.

Sorry. As long as you keep typing nonsense Im gona keep calling you out on it.

This has nothing to do with semantics. The hard evidence is at the guild traders. Maybe the 3rd time I repeat this hard evidence, it'll get through your thick skull?

If you want the exact difference, go log on and see for yourself. The exact difference varies by seller.

I'm getting tired of you ignoring my posts and just blathering on in a thread partially made up with your imagination.

Edited my post. Ill quote it again for you.

The tiny wee bit of difference could be to a MULTITUDE of reasons. One being dual stat drinks could possibly be more popular than tri stat drinks while tri stat food is more popular than dual stat food... By your logic, v16 gear needs to be even better cos v14 mats cost *** tons more than v16 mats.... Clearly that isnt the case.....

Also, still waiting for you to tell me why food is OP. Or are you going to ignore that question for like the 4th time....