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why not just make enemy keeps/outposts insta kill zones until you breach the walls?
Wing
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seriously, there is not supposed to be any way for a person to get into a keep or outpost without first having the walls / doors breached. everything that allows you to do so is a bug/exploit/broken mechanic.
this would halt the various bugs and exploits AND allow us to get awesome functioning reliable gap closers back.
at that point it would be cool if you could use certain gap closers to get on walls (or pull people off) once you breached whatever wall / door you were attacking to emphasize the fact that the defenses had been breached.
EDIT: when you breach a wall the insta kill effect ends for the breached section, for a keep the courtyard and outer walls would be safe but the inner would be insta kill until it was also breached, for flipping mid fight insta kill would not take place until walls were repaired and D tick occurred.
I would probably add a cooldown to the effect re triggering similar to D tick in that once the area is secure it reactivates, signifying you have made safe the keep/outpost
EDIT 2: I might add instead of a blanket "your dead" mechanic rather NPC's similar to the godly town guards in PvE would patrol and threaten keeps and outposts and despawn upon breach then respawn upon D-tick. there threat range would encompass the entire keep section (inner / outer) or outpost they threaten, stealth would be suppressed in these cases (as your never actually supposed to fight them or get into this position in the first place!
questions and answers:
YES!
that's one of the benefits!
once you breach the walls the "defenses are breached" and the insta kill mechanic for that section ends, and you can then jump onto the walls of the sections, or pull defenders off of breached sections (chains) with your working and less restrictive gap closers.
gap closers could be improved and work properly under this system as they would not have to be gutted to prevent this action as this new mechanic would prevent miss use (gap closing through walls and doors before breach, etc.)
Edited by Wing on June 20, 2016 6:49PM this would halt the various bugs and exploits AND allow us to get awesome functioning reliable gap closers back.
at that point it would be cool if you could use certain gap closers to get on walls (or pull people off) once you breached whatever wall / door you were attacking to emphasize the fact that the defenses had been breached.
EDIT: when you breach a wall the insta kill effect ends for the breached section, for a keep the courtyard and outer walls would be safe but the inner would be insta kill until it was also breached, for flipping mid fight insta kill would not take place until walls were repaired and D tick occurred.
I would probably add a cooldown to the effect re triggering similar to D tick in that once the area is secure it reactivates, signifying you have made safe the keep/outpost
EDIT 2: I might add instead of a blanket "your dead" mechanic rather NPC's similar to the godly town guards in PvE would patrol and threaten keeps and outposts and despawn upon breach then respawn upon D-tick. there threat range would encompass the entire keep section (inner / outer) or outpost they threaten, stealth would be suppressed in these cases (as your never actually supposed to fight them or get into this position in the first place!
questions and answers:
If there's a breach in the wall is it then OK to use Take Flight to move around? Is only the enemy allowed to do that in a keep? If the inner postern is open, can I then jump on to the oil ledges with Take Flight and not have people give me hell over it? So many questions.
YES!
that's one of the benefits!
once you breach the walls the "defenses are breached" and the insta kill mechanic for that section ends, and you can then jump onto the walls of the sections, or pull defenders off of breached sections (chains) with your working and less restrictive gap closers.
gap closers could be improved and work properly under this system as they would not have to be gutted to prevent this action as this new mechanic would prevent miss use (gap closing through walls and doors before breach, etc.)
ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.
game got too disappointing.
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clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just sad really that the ZOS programmers couldn't come up with such simple and effective safeguards against exploiting.2 -
Potenza✭✭✭✭✭Something needs to be done because as it is owning a keep means nothing. You might as well be standing on a rock.1 -
Jailbirdy✭✭✭✭✭Gina stated this was broken but, we have no "communication" from them as to when it will be addressed...Disclaimer: The statements and information from this account are for entertainment & informational purposes only. Any interpretation, implied or otherwise does not constitute negligence on any part of this forum posting.0
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Fat_Cat45✭✭✭✭✭Well that would ruin my favorite thing to do. Hide in a keep while it flips, wait about 10 more minutes, and kill people when they walk out the inner doors
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rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭What about the scenario when you're in a keep when it's owned by your faction, then it gets capped?
Not just in the middle of fighting, but uh, I have totally hidden in the corner of a flipped keep after we get wiped and seeing how long it takes for senpai to notice me.2 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still do not have an issue with a DK flying to the top of a wall. I do not have an issue with someone climbing the walls. I do not have an issue that a chracter that has a teleport ability using that to bridge the gap if they are elevated enough to get there on the flat plain necessary to make it work getting to the top of the walls.
I have issue with someone exploiting through a door or wall. Teleporting from the ground to the top of the wall. Teleports in this game are flat LOS mechanics so going up in a sharp angle is a exploit IMO.
XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear5 -
mtwiggz✭✭✭✭✭Well that would ruin my favorite thing to do. Hide in a keep while it flips, wait about 10 more minutes, and kill people when they walk out the inner doors
Exactly. They can't make keeps that aren't breached kill zones. Players can hide until combat is over then wreak havoc.
Not to mention some keep fights take forever in this current lag that the breach gets repaired while the fight is still going on. What then? The attacking force is insta-gibbed mid fight? Silly idea.Edited by mtwiggz on June 20, 2016 5:03PM1 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I will edit the above post for clarity on some things, hold up
there, will update as things are asked or brought upEdited by Wing on June 20, 2016 5:05PMESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
Zach2322✭✭✭All they need to do is add magical slaughter fish that can fly in the keeps, that should keep people out of the keeps until a breach is made.3 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭All they need to do is add magical slaughter fish that can fly in the keeps, that should keep people out of the keeps until a breach is made.
A swarm of cliff racers that flies off when the wall is breached.3 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well that would ruin my favorite thing to do. Hide in a keep while it flips, wait about 10 more minutes, and kill people when they walk out the inner doors
Exactly. They can't make keeps that aren't breached kill zones. Players can hide until combat is over then wreak havoc.
Not to mention some keep fights take forever in this current lag that the breach gets repaired while the fight is still going on. What then? The attacking force is insta-gibbed mid fight? Silly idea.
I updated my original post to reflect this.
yes the ability to hide in enemy keeps long after the battle (after enemy D tick) would be gone, but I would honestly trade this for awesome gap closers and the ability to actually use them on sections you had already breached. (wall goes down, jump the walls or pull people off the section they failed to defend)ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭agree!!!
""funny"" situation was few days ago, I went into my alliance`s keep and there were INSIDE OF THE KEEP like 10 enemy players killing everyone who entered.....WTH
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not a bad idea in theory . However , say someone gets inside after knocking down the wall and the defenders get the wall up with attackers inside . That could be problematic ...
Edit to add that I just saw your edit addressing this .
Still concerned about keeps glitching but like where the thought isEdited by Rohamad_Ali on June 20, 2016 5:58PM0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thanks for the support all I will try and address any concerns as they come up. ^_^ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭With your edit, I like the direction it's going. I think all I'd add is a warning timer. Like the one where you're kicked out of the dungeon/instance if you're no longer grouped. Something that's obviously "YOU HAVE THIS LONG TO AVOID BEING KILLED".1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Then it would just be a game of waiting in stealth and troll repairing as soon as your opponents pushed in. Bam, insta-wipe a raid of any size. Not really a wise game design.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster2 -
Clerics1985✭✭✭If a Group of Nightblades Go into a Breached wall and Stealth inside when things go to hell, and then De-cloak when they've built it back and Left, to take the Keep from the Inside is that an Exploit?Edited by Clerics1985 on June 20, 2016 6:30PM0
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Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Then it would just be a game of waiting in stealth and troll repairing as soon as your opponents pushed in. Bam, insta-wipe a raid of any size. Not really a wise game design.
did you read the post since I updated it?
insta kill on a siege would not "re arm" on a rebuilt wall until such time as the D tick took place. so simply repairing the wall behind an attacking force would do nothing in and of itself to insta kill them, you would still have to wipe the remaining forces inside as well as repel further attacks as now (pretty much major keep combat would not change after breach) and wait for D tick for the insta kill to re arm.ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clerics1985 wrote: »If a Group of Nightblades Go into a Breached wall and Stealth inside when things go to hell, and then De-cloak when they've built it back and Left, to take the Keep from the Inside is that an Exploit?
If there's a breach in the wall is it then OK to use Take Flight to move around? Is only the enemy allowed to do that in a keep? If the inner postern is open, can I then jump on to the oil ledges with Take Flight and not have people give me hell over it? So many questions.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clerics1985 wrote: »If a Group of Nightblades Go into a Breached wall and Stealth inside when things go to hell, and then De-cloak when they've built it back and Left, to take the Keep from the Inside is that an Exploit?
when we have to account for every single scenario its no wonder gap closers are a buggy mess that don't function, I have no doubt some rare or obscure tactics will be lost.
however within your scenario it depends on how long they wait, because if they waited past D-tick they would get rekt.
I might change the mechanic to make it better, I have an idea, edit incoming.ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
Clerics1985✭✭✭Clerics1985 wrote: »If a Group of Nightblades Go into a Breached wall and Stealth inside when things go to hell, and then De-cloak when they've built it back and Left, to take the Keep from the Inside is that an Exploit?
when we have to account for every single scenario its no wonder gap closers are a buggy mess that don't function, I have no doubt some rare or obscure tactics will be lost.
however within your scenario it depends on how long they wait, because if they waited past D-tick they would get rekt.
I might change the mechanic to make it better, I have an idea, edit incoming.
it just Seems like a legitimate Strategy to me, and idk if it's every been done before, I've stealthed inside Keeps to Grieve here and there which is where my initial question is centered from is it even possible to do this?0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If there's a breach in the wall is it then OK to use Take Flight to move around? Is only the enemy allowed to do that in a keep? If the inner postern is open, can I then jump on to the oil ledges with Take Flight and not have people give me hell over it? So many questions.
YES!
that's one of the benefits!
once you breach the walls the "defenses are breached" the insta kill mechanic for that section ends, and you can then jump onto the walls of the sections, or pull defenders off of breached sections (chains) with your working and less restrictive gap closers.
gap closers could be improved and work properly under this system as they would not have to be gutted to prevent this action as this new mechanic would prevent miss use (gap closing through walls and doors before breach, etc.)
Edited by Wing on June 20, 2016 6:46PMESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clerics1985 wrote: »it just Seems like a legitimate Strategy to me, and idk if it's every been done before, I've stealthed inside Keeps to Grieve here and there which is where my initial question is centered from is it even possible to do this?
probably not, but as you said it is *sorta* griefing and your not really supposed to do that in the first place its just a by product of logging or hiding in a keep before it flips.
ill take badass gap closers over this any day.ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You know, if this means you can't hide inside a keep after it's been flipped anymore and hope nobody notices you, then I'll take the folks jumping on the wall. You just have to stay far enough off the wall so you are not a target for them, it's not that hard.
I've been pulled from the inner keep where I was manning oils onto the outer wall by DKs with chains and had to fight my way back to the keep door. It was fun.
I'm sure ZOS will fix it soon, but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. Just deal with the players that jump up, and be careful not to become a target that allows them to do so.The Moot Councillor1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If there's a breach in the wall is it then OK to use Take Flight to move around? Is only the enemy allowed to do that in a keep? If the inner postern is open, can I then jump on to the oil ledges with Take Flight and not have people give me hell over it? So many questions.
YES!
that's one of the benefits!
once you breach the walls the "defenses are breached" the insta kill mechanic for that section ends, and you can then jump onto the walls of the sections, or pull defenders off of breached sections (chains) with your working and less restrictive gap closers.
gap closers could be improved and work properly under this system as they would not have to be gutted to prevent this action as this new mechanic would prevent miss use (gap closing through walls and doors before breach, etc.)
I was actually using that post to point out how ridiculous this entire line of thinking is, but OK. DK leap was fine, was even called "emergent gameplay" by a combat developer, and didn't break any of the rules for the ability as far as leaping from outer tower to inner keep goes. The fact that some people are complaining about a skill working exactly as designed irks me greatly. Now, other kinds of gap-closers, like Critical Rush, are pretty wonky right now with the teleport thing going on. While that has some cool advantages, like getting from one rock to another out in the field or across a breach, I don't like that it could be a spammable way to get up a keep wall. On the other hand, I wouldn't like it if they stayed a teleport but had a severe vertical axis check, since we used to be able to charge up hills just fine.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was actually using that post to point out how ridiculous this entire line of thinking is, but OK. DK leap was fine, was even called "emergent gameplay" by a combat developer, and didn't break any of the rules for the ability as far as leaping from outer tower to inner keep goes. The fact that some people are complaining about a skill working exactly as designed irks me greatly. Now, other kinds of gap-closers, like Critical Rush, are pretty wonky right now with the teleport thing going on. While that has some cool advantages, like getting from one rock to another out in the field or across a breach, I don't like that it could be a spammable way to get up a keep wall. On the other hand, I wouldn't like it if they stayed a teleport but had a severe vertical axis check, since we used to be able to charge up hills just fine.
I don't expect all gap closers to be able to get onto walls, as you are correct crit charging onto walls would both look and feel silly. but things like leap, teleport strike, and chains (either morph) feel like they would work just fine.ESO player since beta.
game got too disappointing.0
