Guppet wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

How exactly do you get from 1-50 in 6 hours? I'd love to have a dragon knight, so honestly curious.

You'll need a buddy to marry, all purple level 1 training gear made along with a set of level 30 gear purple pre made too. Then make the Orsinium food either mag or Stam recovery. Finish the very first mini map (bout 30 min), then go to old Orsinium and there's a grind rectangle deep in the delve. You'll level every second lap. But having anymore than two in your group will greatly reduce your XP.

What if you cared less about those things, as it as been explained to you they don't matter that much outside of optimised stuff.

For example I picked Bosmer, thinking that would be usefull to gain bow XP faster. Now that I'm max level, this passive doesn't even suck, it has no use whatsoever. Do I care ? Nope.

On top of that I picked a bow as a main weapon and a resto staff as secondary weapon. It doesn't prevent me to group and clear stuff. Sure we take some seconds more than minmaxers. Is that a big deal ? Nope.

I never told you to do such a thing, @Whatzituyah . If I were you, I'd rather question the guilds / friends groups I belong to.

Requested lock I would also request to edit anything I said that was negative it was a mistake to make this thread might just need to move on. I just don't like the way the stat system is set up.

To be honest I feel so not motivated gotta take a vacation which I am probably going to be forced to do. It was late at night I was hoping this was just a good complaint as it was but I got emotional.

@OP many of us have suggested a birthsign thing similar to previous titles.

I think it would be nice, but similar to this thread you will have people complaining about the imbalance brought from that...

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

(haven't read *all* other posts here so apologies if I've missed the point or am repeating)

I've a lot of sympathy with what you're saying, but as a couple of people point out, it seems to be the way it goes, if only because there will always be players who enjoy number-crunching to work out optimum builds.

I don't mind that, as long as it doesn't impinge on how I play. I usually pick the skills I think are fun, over 'best', and often because it suits my characters personality.

I can't tell you how many times other 'helpful' players have commented on my choice of gear, skills etc, because they think I've missed the point somehow.

Generally speaking, I think if you're tootling about with PvE and doing straightforward (even heroic/vet/whatevs) dungeons, your build of choice will get you through, and I love a good group who will work with what you've chosen, particularly if you're doing it for larky reasons.

However, with high-level instances, raiding and PvP, I think min/maxing becomes unavoidable, and although I don't like it, I sort of understand when group/team members get stroppy because you've not optimized your build & stuff to suit the situation. They're often unhelpful, rude and brusque, and often aren't very good at explaining what you should be doing instead

Needless to say, I generally don't do that content because for me personally, min/maxing is boring as *** and I'd rather stick forks in my leg. But I understand the number-nerds (some of my fave people are these) like it and that's ok too.

I have run a few dungeons with people who "play as you want" and even if I can carry them through sometime, it really not fun when you have to spend more time, more soul gems, more potions, more repair money just because your dps want to "play as he want" and use wrecking blow + swallow soul in AoE pull. Yes I'm kind of expect those people when pug, but that doesn't mean I enjoy running with them.

Explain what you should do? So we should let the other 2 group mates wait while I explain to you how to spec your points, what skills and gears you should use, why you should and should not do something, while you scrolling through your skills be like "What line is that skill? Where can I get that gear?"...? Explain the mechanic of the boss, fine. Explain what build you should do? No, I don't have the time for that. There are dozens of builds out there on the internet.

Everyone starts somewhere, yes? And learning from other players is the best way to do it. You can't have a conversation and easily ask questions with a youtube vid or a written guide.

It really doesn't take that much time to explain a fight to a new player. It's also possible to be polite and sympathetic when you /kick someone.

It's also a cool thing to say, "Hi there, this group isn't working out because you're a bit under-powered, so we're going to /kick you, BUT if you want to /w me a bit later, I can talk to you about how you can improve your build etc. Good luck and sorry, mate. Hope we talk later." Or whatever.

I'm interested that you've taken my comments so personally.

I realise you've not said these exact things, but I get a bit tired of the same circular arguments about L2P, filthy casuals, 'why do you play an mmo if you only want to solo?', 'it's not fair there's not enough group/raid/pvp content' and yet frequently players say they don't want to attempt that kind of mmo content, not because they can't be bothered to gear up, but because it's a really unpleasant, unwelcoming experience.

I suggest if you want the dev of your fave mmo to make and maintain better/more group content, you need to encourage all players to have a go at it to improve numbers. That's not going to happen if you make players new to pugs/raids/pvp etc feel horrible and unwelcome.

Tarante11a wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Tarante11a wrote: »

(haven't read *all* other posts here so apologies if I've missed the point or am repeating)

I've a lot of sympathy with what you're saying, but as a couple of people point out, it seems to be the way it goes, if only because there will always be players who enjoy number-crunching to work out optimum builds.

I don't mind that, as long as it doesn't impinge on how I play. I usually pick the skills I think are fun, over 'best', and often because it suits my characters personality.

I can't tell you how many times other 'helpful' players have commented on my choice of gear, skills etc, because they think I've missed the point somehow.

Generally speaking, I think if you're tootling about with PvE and doing straightforward (even heroic/vet/whatevs) dungeons, your build of choice will get you through, and I love a good group who will work with what you've chosen, particularly if you're doing it for larky reasons.

However, with high-level instances, raiding and PvP, I think min/maxing becomes unavoidable, and although I don't like it, I sort of understand when group/team members get stroppy because you've not optimized your build & stuff to suit the situation. They're often unhelpful, rude and brusque, and often aren't very good at explaining what you should be doing instead

Needless to say, I generally don't do that content because for me personally, min/maxing is boring as *** and I'd rather stick forks in my leg. But I understand the number-nerds (some of my fave people are these) like it and that's ok too.

I have run a few dungeons with people who "play as you want" and even if I can carry them through sometime, it really not fun when you have to spend more time, more soul gems, more potions, more repair money just because your dps want to "play as he want" and use wrecking blow + swallow soul in AoE pull. Yes I'm kind of expect those people when pug, but that doesn't mean I enjoy running with them.

Explain what you should do? So we should let the other 2 group mates wait while I explain to you how to spec your points, what skills and gears you should use, why you should and should not do something, while you scrolling through your skills be like "What line is that skill? Where can I get that gear?"...? Explain the mechanic of the boss, fine. Explain what build you should do? No, I don't have the time for that. There are dozens of builds out there on the internet.

Everyone starts somewhere, yes? And learning from other players is the best way to do it. You can't have a conversation and easily ask questions with a youtube vid or a written guide.

It really doesn't take that much time to explain a fight to a new player. It's also possible to be polite and sympathetic when you /kick someone.

It's also a cool thing to say, "Hi there, this group isn't working out because you're a bit under-powered, so we're going to /kick you, BUT if you want to /w me a bit later, I can talk to you about how you can improve your build etc. Good luck and sorry, mate. Hope we talk later." Or whatever.

I'm interested that you've taken my comments so personally.

I realise you've not said these exact things, but I get a bit tired of the same circular arguments about L2P, filthy casuals, 'why do you play an mmo if you only want to solo?', 'it's not fair there's not enough group/raid/pvp content' and yet frequently players say they don't want to attempt that kind of mmo content, not because they can't be bothered to gear up, but because it's a really unpleasant, unwelcoming experience.

I suggest if you want the dev of your fave mmo to make and maintain better/more group content, you need to encourage all players to have a go at it to improve numbers. That's not going to happen if you make players new to pugs/raids/pvp etc feel horrible and unwelcome.

Everyone start from somewhere, yes. But if I just started with first aid knowgledge, I won't sign up to work as a surgery doctor. Before joining in group dungeons, I search for builds, I craft my gear, I test my dps, I try my best to carry my own weight.

Explaining a fight doesn't take much time, but explaining a BUILD for someone who uses wrecking blow and swallow soul, or only hard cast frag and heavy attack in trash pull, does. Even if you ask in guild chat for a BUILD, most of the time people will redirect you to a site.

I never said anything about kicking people. I try to carry if I can, and leave group if I cannot. If you search back my post history I, infact, objected any idea about punishing people for not "good" enough. What I feel "personal" about your post is the mindset "If they don't carry me then they are bad guys." I've seen this too many times both in game and in real life. There are always those people who would do nothing in group project, "too busy" they said, or only take 15m google and copy - paste whatever they found in the 1st page and call it "contribution". It take other people more time to cover their job for them, but if you rate them "bad" at the end, you are the worst people in the world.

A race change option would be the simplest solution to all these kinds of complaints.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

There needs to be a better system to work around racial frailties. An Altmer warrior for instance should not be completely terrible just because he's an Altmer. I have suggested in the past that they should probably consider changing things to flat values so that they can matter, but don't have to matter THAT MUCH. The problem as I see it now is the game punishes players for not pushing into stats for which their race gains a bonus, which greatly narrows what is useful. If the racial bonus were a flat value, it would not matter whether you put points in health, magicka, or stamina because you'd get that flat value, and it would allow for building around those traits a lot more easily. I have made this suggestion before, and personally I think its pretty reasonable. These traits should have an enchanting equivalency, which by the way I would argue all the traits should have not just recovery and maximum attribute. While I doubt many people will want to wear +Swimspeed jewelry, I don't see any reason why they couldn't offer that. This is what I'm talking about. In past TES games it was easy to work around racial differences through things like enchanting, and the way racial bonuses were a flat effect. Nothing like that exists here and that is part of the problem.

This is a good point.
Imo, of all TES games Daggerfall had the best character customization system.
But this is an mmo, so either way some people would make the strongest characters possible. Even in oldschool rpgs like Dungeons and Dragons it was possible to make OP characters.

There's a lot of things ZOS do to make the game a lot more balanced without outright destroying the game.

• Re-introduce Soft caps
• Remove Stamina/Magic affecting damage numbers
• Make racial bonuses a flat amount instead of a %
• Balance all skills, buffs and debuffs between class and world skills
• Balance damage and resistances
• Animation cancelling removal

I feel enough has been stated about Soft caps and removing stamina/magic as factors for damage in the past that I won't beat the dead horse anymore there.

Making racial bonuses a flat amount vs a % would also help make things slightly more balanced. Granted, if they removed Magic/Stamina scaling damage, this might not be that huge an issue but it would help to diversify the game a little more when the only difference between the stamina of a Nord vs Redguard is only 1000 extra stamina.

Balance between skills is abysmal at best. Skills either over perform, under perform or have a middle ground between. Lets compare some Skills that grant Major Brutality for example

Igneous Weapons - provides group with the buff, lasts 45 seconds, has a chance to proc burning DoT, can be used in stealth
Rally - Last 33 seconds, HoT with a burst heal at the end, can be used in stealth
Hidden Blade - Last 20 seconds, requires a target, snares, is a ranged attack

Needless to say, there are some issues here. The fact that Hidden Blade requires a target and can't be used in stealth are 2 major issues, along with the shorter duration than both Rally and Igneous makes it the under performing skill when compared to them. There really should be some incentive to using Hidden Blade over Rally or Igneous Weapons but there really isn't apart from being able to use it at a distance but in truth we use Hidden Blade for the major brutality and not so much the damage, which is on the lower end of DPS skills anyways.

Currently, Damage >>>>>>>>>>>Resistance. There are far too many ways to do damage as opposed to resisting it that it's outright appalling.

Let's look at the ways we get more damage and name their counter balance
Sharpened Trait = Defending Trait
Major Fracture/Breech = Major Resolve/Ward
Mace penetration = Nothing
Light Armor Penetration = Nothing
Destruction Staff Penetration = Nothing

Now, lets factor in that resistance has a Cap whereas damage does not and the issues start becoming more and more obvious as well. No amount of Physical/Spell resistance will save you as a larger majority is being flat out ignored due to the large amount of penetration that is currently available, so much so that it's just a flat out better to just go straight for damage over resistance.

I might be bias against animation cancelling but it honestly should be a factor in relation to balance. Some content, such as vMoL, practically require not only an absurd amount of damage but flawless execution of animation cancelling to be completed and I feel that it isn't a good thing to have in the game. It just makes it feel like, no matter what you do, you absolutely have to do animation cancelling to remain competitive, on top of wearing Golden BiS gear with a perfect Race/Class combo. IDK, maybe that's just me but I don't feel animation cancelling should be a requirement, at least as far as gaming content is concerned.