Any chance that ZOS can make it so we don't want to dump everything in one resource including racial

Whatzituyah

I mean seriously "use x race because it gets y resource resulting in z" I feel like its getting old! The way the system works makes it have to be min/maxed there has to be another way.

*edited for what people presumed to be bash but don't have a word to justify how I don't like the system.*

pretzl

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

Whatzituyah

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask? Also I would still role Argonian.

pretzl

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask?

Simply put; yes. You choose to play this how you want. Making it so each race is unique will always lead to one race being more desirable than others. It's your own choice to take these qualities into consideration. If you want to be the best, you have to make the best character possible. That's how any MMO works.

Whatzituyah

pretzl wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask?

Simply put; yes. You choose to play this how you want. Making it so each race is unique will always lead to one race being more desirable than others. It's your own choice to take these qualities into consideration. If you want to be the best, you have to make the best character possible. That's how any MMO works.

That maybe how most work but I came from a game where those were minor benefit that didn't really matter end game.

Guppet

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

Not true in the slightest. When we had soft caps, there was much more variety. There were still frozen apple eaters then.

The removal of the soft caps escalated the min max arms race. Bringing them back would make currently less optimal builds more competitive. You would not need to put in anywhere near the same level of dedication to get through things like VMA if they brought back soft caps and balanced the game for that.

JMadFour

it doesn't matter what you change.

there will always be someone with his nose in the air if you don't play X class and X Race, with X spec and X skillbar set up using X gear. cause Numbers.

it will always, always, always be this way in MMORPGs. it always has been, and it always will be.

it doesn't matter what MMO you play.

in the long run, these aesthetic choices truly don't matter because you'll be able to clear any content with every race/class combo, but you'll never be able to convince certain types of players of this. and it's not really worth it to try. they play their game the way they want to, just like you do. and the way they want to do it, is the absolute highest damage number at any cost, even if it is overkill and you can clear content with slightly smaller numbers.

pretzl

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask?

Simply put; yes. You choose to play this how you want. Making it so each race is unique will always lead to one race being more desirable than others. It's your own choice to take these qualities into consideration. If you want to be the best, you have to make the best character possible. That's how any MMO works.

That maybe how most work but I came from a game where those were minor benefit that didn't really matter end game.

What's minor and what isn't is in the eye of the beholder, tbh. 7% max stamina may be minor to me, but not to you. In PvP skill makes up for any racial bonus and the same can largely be said for PvE. No need to get caught up in them

phaneub17_ESO

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

Hmm. I played a Mithra in FFXI, I play a feral druid on WoW, and I have two Khajiits on ESO... OMG I'm that player!

Epona222

It's an MMO, min/max "OCD" will always be a component of the game.

dsalter

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask?

Simply put; yes. You choose to play this how you want. Making it so each race is unique will always lead to one race being more desirable than others. It's your own choice to take these qualities into consideration. If you want to be the best, you have to make the best character possible. That's how any MMO works.

That maybe how most work but I came from a game where those were minor benefit that didn't really matter end game.

warcraft i'm assuming? cause race DID mater but only small amounts since it gave you a minor edge in some ways but that was all, i to hate this over focus on the power creep of min/maxing. it's already got as tight grip on the game, VMA is proof of this.

Duiwel

Lol OP it has been like this since before ESO. All Elder Scrolls games are like this.

L2Read issue...

ITT: Op is an Argonian magplar and is unhappy with OP swim speed

Whatzituyah

Duiwel wrote: »

Lol OP it has been like this since before ESO. All Elder Scrolls games are like this.

L2Read issue...

ITT: Op is an Argonian magplar and is unhappy with OP swim speed

@Duiwel nah I like the swim speed, the slight increase to health, and extra potion benefit but I will always be left behind with the arms race.

mistermutiny89

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

Duiwel

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Lol OP it has been like this since before ESO. All Elder Scrolls games are like this.

L2Read issue...

ITT: Op is an Argonian magplar and is unhappy with OP swim speed

@Duiwel nah I like the swim speed, the slight increase to health, and extra potion benefit but I will always be left behind with the arms race.

@Whatzituyah
At least you have horns and a tail mate...

I am actually gonna make an Argonian soon ( as my 12th char ), revive a guy I deleted in March 2016 ( a mule I had since launch with 60,60,60 mount upgrades ). New name, skin colour though...

you can always have your Argonian and still do decent dps just not the 5k more whatever other max stat class will

Whatzituyah

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

@mistermutiny89 Well I understand why its liked but its also why I dislike it. Its kinda a damned if I do damned if I don't sorta thing.

Ep1kMalware

I agree some racial passives SUCK. it would be nice if you could just choose your passive the same way you choose your class, would also help rp'ers who wanna be an argonian and not suffer crap passives.

Arato

I'd rather them remove animation cancelling, now that's the real min maxing cancer. It looks really stupid to see a character flail around like they had a seizure for a brief second but have 3 damaging attacks done in that second (light attack, skill, bash)

susmitds

Guppet wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

Not true in the slightest. When we had soft caps, there was much more variety. There were still frozen apple eaters then.

The removal of the soft caps escalated the min max arms race. Bringing them back would make currently less optimal builds more competitive. You would not need to put in anywhere near the same level of dedication to get through things like VMA if they brought back soft caps and balanced the game for that.

That is same as making the game more casual-minded, so nope. I like things hard as ***.

Whatzituyah

Arato wrote: »

I'd rather them remove animation cancelling, now that's the real min maxing cancer. It looks really stupid to see a character flail around like they had a seizure for a brief second but have 3 damaging attacks done in that second (light attack, skill, bash)

I agree with that to its just everyone will jump down my throat with that complaint.

Whatzituyah

susmitds wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

Not true in the slightest. When we had soft caps, there was much more variety. There were still frozen apple eaters then.

The removal of the soft caps escalated the min max arms race. Bringing them back would make currently less optimal builds more competitive. You would not need to put in anywhere near the same level of dedication to get through things like VMA if they brought back soft caps and balanced the game for that.

That is same as making the game more casual-minded, so nope. I like things hard as ***.

What isn't already casual minded in this game? Its only going to be more casual minded with one Tamriel.

Vangy

Dosent matter what we all think....

Damage has already been done... At best, ZOS can bring in softcaps gradually with improving gear ranks. So it dosent TOTALLY destroy everyone's builds. Like when CP cap goes up and gear level increases to 170 (maybe), implement some kind of softcaps. That way, everyone has to regear anyway. So no loss of gold or mats for nothing......

Mettaricana

I miss softcaps honestly slap a soft cap on wep dmg and spell dmg so players can utilize resources better I mean 90% of glyphs for jewelry are useless because of min max.... fire resist shock resist? Garbage. When I still had soft caps I was doing decent hybrid dps since I capped wep dmg and started speccing into spell dmg the joy of a wrecking blow liquid lightning and a crystal frag finisher all dealing good dmg.... now its how much dmg can I stack into a spammbility

khele23eb17_ESO

pretzl wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

pretzl wrote: »

It's an MMORPG. There will always be those kind of hardcore players. Without them, this game would be nothing but players pretending to be cats.
What'd you expect?

@pretzl to not have it totally rely on a resource would that be too much to ask?

Simply put; yes. You choose to play this how you want. Making it so each race is unique will always lead to one race being more desirable than others. It's your own choice to take these qualities into consideration. If you want to be the best, you have to make the best character possible. That's how any MMO works.

That maybe how most work but I came from a game where those were minor benefit that didn't really matter end game.

What's minor and what isn't is in the eye of the beholder, tbh. 7% max stamina may be minor to me, but not to you. In PvP skill makes up for any racial bonus and the same can largely be said for PvE. No need to get caught up in them

I dont get this argument. So what youre saying is that when you pvp you always fight palyers either significantly inferior or superior to you in skill? What if youre an average player and you fight another average player (and thats the most common situation - everyone thinks theyre above average but lets be honest here...)? With roughly equal skill, stats become the deciding factor.

Guppet

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

How exactly do you get from 1-50 in 6 hours? I'd love to have a dragon knight, so honestly curious.

Jaronking

Guppet wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

How exactly do you get from 1-50 in 6 hours? I'd love to have a dragon knight, so honestly curious.

Get to level 10 which you should be able to do in a hour go to a campaign get a buddy get married have ESO plus and pup a xp potion on scroll and grind a delve for 5-6 hours should be able to get to 50 in a day.

LadyNalcarya

Whatzituyah wrote: »

I mean seriously "use x race because it gets y resource resulting in z" I feel like its getting old! Also not bashing on elitest just the way the system works there has to be another way.

So what's the problem? the majority of players are casuals and dont care about minmaxing and probably even group activities.
When I'm collecting books and skyshards, I see a lot of "mismatched" race/role combos and craziest builds... People are just playing as they want I assume. Nothing wrong with that.
But if we're talking about highscores and other stuff like this, them yes, you'd need to minmax. And even if there wouldnt be any racial passives, some builds and playstyles will always be stronger. Even in Skyrim, some "builds" are significantly stronger. And of course, if you want to claim top spots on leaderboards, you will need to optimize your build, one way or another. Its not needed for 99% of the content though.

P.S. Also, comparing minmaxing to disorder is very close to bashing.

Whatzituyah

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

I mean seriously "use x race because it gets y resource resulting in z" I feel like its getting old! Also not bashing on elitest just the way the system works there has to be another way.

So what's the problem? the majority of players are casuals and dont care about minmaxing and probably even group activities.
When I'm collecting books and skyshards, I see a lot of "mismatched" race/role combos and craziest builds... People are just playing as they want I assume. Nothing wrong with that.
But if we're talking about highscores and other stuff like this, them yes, you'd need to minmax. And even if there wouldnt be any racial passives, some builds and playstyles will always be stronger. Even in Skyrim, some "builds" are significantly stronger. And of course, if you want to claim top spots on leaderboards, you will need to optimize your build, one way or another. Its not needed for 99% of the content though.

@KoshkaMurka Problem is mostly the attitude that this stat system supports. Im always going to be questioned on my choice of race because its about resource stacking for damage. Soft caps might be the answer at least in my opinion.

Epona222

Guppet wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I kind of like the ability to min/max and the technicality of the build system. It's one thing that ESO has over most MMO's for me personally.

If you want, try rolling one role playing character and then a min/max character... Takes about six hours to max a new character these days.

How exactly do you get from 1-50 in 6 hours? I'd love to have a dragon knight, so honestly curious.

I am someone who starts a new character and kind of potters around with them for a while because I like questing/exploring, but I can see it would be easy enough to get a new character to level 50 pretty quickly if I put my mind to it. PvP (once level 10), grinding wearing training gear - it's completely possible to do it quickly.

LadyNalcarya

Whatzituyah wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

I mean seriously "use x race because it gets y resource resulting in z" I feel like its getting old! Also not bashing on elitest just the way the system works there has to be another way.

So what's the problem? the majority of players are casuals and dont care about minmaxing and probably even group activities.
When I'm collecting books and skyshards, I see a lot of "mismatched" race/role combos and craziest builds... People are just playing as they want I assume. Nothing wrong with that.
But if we're talking about highscores and other stuff like this, them yes, you'd need to minmax. And even if there wouldnt be any racial passives, some builds and playstyles will always be stronger. Even in Skyrim, some "builds" are significantly stronger. And of course, if you want to claim top spots on leaderboards, you will need to optimize your build, one way or another. Its not needed for 99% of the content though.

@KoshkaMurka Problem is mostly the attitude that this stat system supports. Im always going to be questioned on my choice of race because its about resource stacking for damage. Soft caps might be the answer at least in my opinion.

But even in 1.5 and earlier, there were elitists.
And even in 1.5, if you asked to recommend a race for magicka dk, everyone would say "dunmer"
Also, the number of viable endgame combos was significantly lower. I'm not talking about unique snowflake casual builds, there's plenty of them anyway. And I've never seen people harrased or kicked from groups for having less than minmaxed build. It probably happens, but its far from common, I havent even heard about this in game.
Also, many gameplay aspects were different with softcaps. We had dynamic ulti regen for example. Its not like they can just undo everything and revert the game to 1.5. And that patch, by the way, had its own issues, of which people who think that the first version of the game theyve played is always superior, tend to forget.

Also pls don forget that forum users =/= majority of players. A lot of people just dont care about builds.

Whatzituyah

Id prefer soft caps seriously think it would be worth doing. I just don't want version 1.5 again I want a new implemented system I just don't think a set that allows hybrid to work is going to cut it. There are other sets worth using that help your role in my opinion. One thats hybrid crafted set won't allow a second crafted set unless they let us craft jewelry.