So Bethesda releases Mods on consoles...

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

KICHZY wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777

CE allows you to alter the process memory of selected applications. Cheaters only gained access because CE released a 64bit version called Lazarus and it managed to read the process memory. ZOS currently need to change there encryption methods to be able to permanently block access to cheaters...This takes time!

3rd party mods are client based not server side so your argument is kinda irrelevant bud.

Well like I said it's still too risky and a risk I for one do not want to see done.

Besides, it isn't gonna happen anyway. Allowing mods for a single player game is way different than allowing mods for an MMO.

BS. Blizzard allowed Mod checks in their software for over 10+ years.

edit: For World of Warcraft

They're also making a live adaptation of WoW. Together these facts say alot about Blizzard and why I couldn't care less about them...

The most successful MMO in history and still going strong after 12+ years. LOL, I am sure a lot of companies care about using their business model at least. Also the movie is based on the Warcraft RTS, not the MMO.

They also use tournaments and cash prizes for said tournaments. Practically buying players if you ask me.

Good point. Only crappy game companies would ever give money to their players...

Quite

Lysette · June 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can only think of like 2 addons I'd really like for consoles; Text search for items in guild stores and Thieves Trove locator.

Your thief trove locator is built in - your ears - just listen to the buzzing sound, when you are somewhat near them and follow the intensity of that sound. If you do not have much of a plan, how to do that, do it like bacteria find their resources. Simple rule set:

as long as the sound gets louder, continue in this direction
if the sound gets more silent, turn into a random direction and move a bit

it's pretty effective and very easy to follow.

Elsonso · June 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

So Bethesda releases mods on consoles, and ESO console players still do not have access to addons...

It's a lot of work for ZOS to do this. They have to have a repository to store the add-ons, a UI on console for the catalog of add-ons, the ability to download them to the console, and activate them. Then they have to decide how they want to manage the add-on content and how the add-ons are contributed and selected. Add-ons have to be updated and maintained, and there needs to be a way to get old unmaintained add-ons out of the catalog, and the game.

Then there is the whole problem of writing add-ons for console without being able to test them. They would have to be written for the PC/Mac in game pad mode and hope that everything worked on the console. There are ways to handle this, but it takes more work and planning by ZOS to do them.

I really don't see them coming to the console.

Phinix1 · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Much of what PC has console now does. If consoles did get add-ons though we'd also have to deal with hackers...

Addons have NOTHING to do with hacking. They are a completely separate entity from the cheat engines that do hacking.

Addons can only use program functions the ZOS developers specifically make available to them. The hacking is done by 3rd party programs that scan PC memory for specific values to identify their relative address space and then inject changes to that space.

These 3rd party applications cannot be used on consoles, and regardless, addons would not result in any sort of hacking.

Sad that addons are getting blamed for this due to general lack of understanding of technology.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Much of what PC has console now does. If consoles did get add-ons though we'd also have to deal with hackers...

Addons have NOTHING to do with hacking. They are a completely separate entity from the cheat engines that do hacking.

Addons can only use program functions the ZOS developers specifically make available to them. The hacking is done by 3rd party programs that scan PC memory for specific values to identify their relative address space and then inject changes to that space.

These 3rd party applications cannot be used on consoles, and regardless, addons would not result in any sort of hacking.

Sad that addons are getting blamed for this due to general lack of understanding of technology.

Please read my later comments as well.

Phinix1 · June 2016

I did, and it sounds like you just don't understand how addons actually work. Addons are NOT 3rd party. They are ZOS code. Think of it like an erector set. If you take the pieces that come with it and build a car, or a skyscraper, or whatever, those things are not "3rd party" because they are build out of erector set parts. The same is true with addons.

Cheat engines would be like using legos, super glue, a welding torch, and duct tape to build your erector set project. Those things did NOT come with the original package, therefor, are 3rd party by definition.

There is no shame in not understanding how the addon code interface works, but clearly you do not. It is also understandable to be cautious about polluting another medium with disgusting cheater cancer.

Addons would NOT do this.

Believe me or don't, it matters not.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

I did, and it sounds like you just don't understand how addons actually work. Addons are NOT 3rd party. They are ZOS code. Think of it like an erector set. If you take the pieces that come with it and build a car, or a skyscraper, or whatever, those things are not "3rd party" because they are build out of erector set parts. The same is true with addons.

Cheat engines would be like using legos, super glue, a welding torch, and duct tape to build your erector set project. Those things did NOT come with the original package, therefor, are 3rd party by definition.

There is no shame in not understanding how the addon code interface works, but clearly you do not. It is also understandable to be cautious about polluting another medium with disgusting cheater cancer.

Addons would NOT do this.

Believe me or don't, it matters not.

Believe what you want. I'm not repeating myself 50 times. Same goes for anyone else pulling quotes on me.

Peekachu99 · June 2016

Mods take more resources and cause greater performance issues. No thanks.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

When ZOS begins to release updates that aren't almost breaking and crashing my console, I'd welcome this but until then, I need them to focus on quality first.

ginoboehm · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

The fact of the matter is when you allow third party programs into your game that also opens the door for things like cheat engine. Let the add-ons in, and the hackers slip in too. Common sense, really.

[Edit to remove reference to removed content]

that is simply a lie. no cheat program is using the official api. no api/addon mechanic is alowing the cheat programs to work. cheat engine is an external software running beside eso and altering the state of it while it runs.
It has nothing to do with addons and it is not good to talk about stuff you don't understand with that kind of confidence

Different functions, same purpose. Both add-ons and programs alter the game and it's hard to see it as anything beyond coincidence. Even if it isn't true, it's still risky to send it console's way. Just saiyan.

it isn't just because you don't understand it you don't need to start fearmongering. it is perfectly fine to have no knowledge about a topic but please don't comment then.
that is what you are saying at the moment:
"i don't want people to drink water, i saw people drinking posion and dying in another country and both things are liquids so liquids will kill you"

Mettaricana · June 2016

I like not having master merchant globally showing us how to undercut the next guy... economy staying stable longer.

Though eso should atleast add a default marker to show skyshards we've already collected so we dont waste time re running a delve we think we missed it in.

Manpoints · June 2016

I thought most mods were against the rules, Wykkyds, Roomba, Multicraft, three big ones have all resulted in suspensions for their user, ZOS citing in the TC's that only 'approved' mods are allowed for use...but gl finding that list anywhere or getting ZOS customer service to give it to you.

I mean sure, you get 3 day suspensions for using them...but thats on par with exploit abuse in ESO.

Elsonso · June 2016

Manpoints wrote: »

I thought most mods were against the rules, Wykkyds, Roomba, Multicraft, three big ones have all resulted in suspensions for their user, ZOS citing in the TC's that only 'approved' mods are allowed for use...but gl finding that list anywhere or getting ZOS customer service to give it to you.

I mean sure, you get 3 day suspensions for using them...but thats on par with exploit abuse in ESO.

Mods are against the rules, although I suspect people may be able to get away with ENB type mods.

What you list are not mods, they are addons, and the difference is that the addons use the ZOS approved API and run under the ZOS built-in interpreter.

Where addons run afoul of the rules is automation. They do multiple tasks with a keystroke. They bulk craft, they bulk fillet, they automate boring drudgery. If the addon presents information, you are fine, but if it helps you by doing things for you so you don't have to press keys or perform actions, I would be careful.

Addons are best suited to collect and present information and to change how the UI appears and what information is presented. These are the things I would expect to see on console, not the automation ones.

Manpoints · June 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

I thought most mods were against the rules, Wykkyds, Roomba, Multicraft, three big ones have all resulted in suspensions for their user, ZOS citing in the TC's that only 'approved' mods are allowed for use...but gl finding that list anywhere or getting ZOS customer service to give it to you.

I mean sure, you get 3 day suspensions for using them...but thats on par with exploit abuse in ESO.

Mods are against the rules, although I suspect people may be able to get away with ENB type mods.

What you list are not mods, they are addons, and the difference is that the addons use the ZOS approved API and run under the ZOS built-in interpreter.

Where addons run afoul of the rules is automation. They do multiple tasks with a keystroke. They bulk craft, they bulk fillet, they automate boring drudgery. If the addon presents information, you are fine, but if it helps you by doing things for you so you don't have to press keys or perform actions, I would be careful.

Addons are best suited to collect and present information and to change how the UI appears and what information is presented. These are the things I would expect to see on console, not the automation ones.

Have you tried stacking stuff in a guild bank? I think I'd just roll the dice on that one.

Elsonso · June 2016

Manpoints wrote: »

Have you tried stacking stuff in a guild bank? I think I'd just roll the dice on that one.

I won't disagree with you, and this may be why ZOS is not actively banning people who use those addons. They certainly know everyone who is. ZOS might suddenly decide, without warning, to change their mind. They can always fall back on "it's always been in the ToS" if they do that.

Clerics1985 · June 2016

how are add-ons made?

does Zos gives you an application that allows you to alter code on the client side of the Game which therefore Restructures things Inside the game while you play, is that how it works?

CE gives you an "offbrand" application that allows you to alter code on the client side of the game therefore Restructuring things in game while you play? is that how it works??

or is it, that you just Create a script for the add-ons and ZOS released a wealth of information to the Base Players on how their Code works/is housed so that the players could Develop these Add-ons?

I used to write scripts for D2jsp back in the day so i'm honestly curious. *

*why add-ons even getting the CE attention*

Ayantir · June 2016

I don't know a single author who had contacts with zos for this, just sayin'

Pomaikai · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Much of what PC has console now does. If consoles did get add-ons though we'd also have to deal with hackers...

No, hacking and cheating on consoles is alive, well, and undetectable via console modding. Add-ons just allow you to modify the UI experience.

Lava_Croft · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

The fact of the matter is when you allow third party programs into your game that also opens the door for things like cheat engine. Let the add-ons in, and the hackers slip in too. Common sense, really.

[Edit to remove reference to removed content]

that is simply a lie. no cheat program is using the official api. no api/addon mechanic is alowing the cheat programs to work. cheat engine is an external software running beside eso and altering the state of it while it runs.
It has nothing to do with addons and it is not good to talk about stuff you don't understand with that kind of confidence

Different functions, same purpose. Both add-ons and programs alter the game and it's hard to see it as anything beyond coincidence. Even if it isn't true, it's still risky to send it console's way. Just saiyan.

Just give up in your incredibly silly attempts to even remotely link add-ons to Cheat Engine and related hacks. There's no similarities whatsoever except the ones you think there are because you don't really seem to have the faintest clue as to how both add-ons and Cheat Engine work. It's nothing but trying to spread misinformation based on a complete lack of knowledge.

wayfarerx · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Addons have NOTHING to do with hacking. They are a completely separate entity from the cheat engines that do hacking.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, so I wanted to take a moment and highlight the quote above. From someone who has:

Written many different addon frameworks for software.
Written addons for many types of software.
Written and used memory analysis software (for work stuff not cheating).

The inclusion of the addon API in ESO, particularly considering that they use the LUA interpreter, does almost nothing to increase the vulnerability surface of the game. Any attempt to equate cheat-engine-like hacking with the existence of or access to the addon API does nothing but show the lack of knowledge on the part of the person trying to equate the two.

Bringing addons to consoles would NOT, I repeat NOT, give console players any more ability to hack than they have today.

MuddledMuppet · June 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Addons have NOTHING to do with hacking. They are a completely separate entity from the cheat engines that do hacking.

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, so I wanted to take a moment and highlight the quote above. From someone who has:
Written many different addon frameworks for software.

Written addons for many types of software.

Written and used memory analysis software (for work stuff not cheating).

The inclusion of the addon API in ESO, particularly considering that they use the LUA interpreter, does almost nothing to increase the vulnerability surface of the game. Any attempt to equate cheat-engine-like hacking with the existence of or access to the addon API does nothing but show the lack of knowledge on the part of the person trying to equate the two.

Bringing addons to consoles would NOT, I repeat NOT, give console players any more ability to hack than they have today.

I intend no disrespect when I say this, but as someone with zero knowledge of how mods/add-on work, I would love zos to make a similar statement.

I'd feel happier.

I'd also like some assurance that electricity doesn't leak out of lightbulbs.

daemonios · June 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

The fact of the matter is when you allow third party programs into your game that also opens the door for things like cheat engine. Let the add-ons in, and the hackers slip in too. Common sense, really.

[Edit to remove reference to removed content]

that is simply a lie. no cheat program is using the official api. no api/addon mechanic is alowing the cheat programs to work. cheat engine is an external software running beside eso and altering the state of it while it runs.
It has nothing to do with addons and it is not good to talk about stuff you don't understand with that kind of confidence

^This. I originally thought the hacks were from addons, and I found out through this guy I was wrong. (I play on consoles, so I did not know) It is ok to admit you are wrong once in awhile. Your ego can handle it , I promise.

I never said what they say about cheat engines and add-ons coming from 2 different things is wrong, it's just suspect due to what little similarities they have is all.

There are NO similarities between add-ons and CE.

Add-ons use ZOS-provided APIs (application programming interfaces) which are basically sets of approved functions that allow users to read and display or hide certain information (damage output for instance) or perform certain allowed actions (such as gear swaps).

CE is used to find out memory locations where certain variables are held (the APIs don't give out this information) and edit them. Because ESO servers trust data sent by the client, which it shouldn't, it accepts the edited values.

Add-ons don't allow hacks, and disabling them will do nothing to prevent hacks.

Lokey0024 · June 2016

So are mods client based or server side?

Digerati · June 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Mods take more resources and cause greater performance issues. No thanks.

Add-ons use a segregated memory set. I believe the consoles are still running 32-bit versions of the client, there would be no memory contention. that wouldn't be the issue. The logistics is what stops the progress on this front. Distribution to closed devices...