zyk wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

I don't agree with your guilt by association ideology. Also, I am in plenty of repectable guilds. This is honestly becoming a witch hunt like people have predicted. It's really sad.

Uhh.. because there *are* witches.

If you want to stick by your friends, super. I think people should support their true friends. However, if you continue to play with these people, it will influence your credibility. It also impacts the merit of your arguments as you have a personal stake in defending cheaters.

A respectable gaming guild or organization of any kind should have a zero tolerance policy towards cheating. Without this, it has no credibility. Cheating in online games is a red line.

Like I said, I haven't defended them. I'm defending those who aren't cheaters that are getting labeled with guilt by association. Also, I haven't played in about a month but when I return in a couple days I don't plan on grouping with them.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

mchermie wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

[I am not advocating singling out individual players out without evidence. I have promoted the opposite. The point is that cheating surely is an issue in ESO.

Oy.

Oh, ok, im glad to hear. Guess we're somewhat on the same page then. Maybe it seemed like I was denying the fact that cheating was an issue, but that was not my intention. I was trying to say that its not really a problem for the general players pvp-experience. Last time I think/knew I saw a cheater was when Zazeer ulted me to death, and thats a while ago now. We all kill some and die some, and I still havent met anyone who has been dominating me so hard that I thought there might have been something else behind. Therefore, from my experience, claiming that cheating is a big problem for ESO, is just not true.

Here is the problem with the line of thinking that it's not a problem... From what I saw of the speed hack and how every single turd running it was they don't stop at speed hacking. They speed up animation time as well (a la sneaky pete) and attack faster.

The difference between a 1 second dizzying swing and a .7 second dizzying swing is quite a lot. Particularly if you are also moving slower than the spammer.

It's actually their entire gameplay... to spam one ability on you while moving faster than you so you can't get away from them as they keep spamming it.

Does that play style sound familiar? e.g. every single DC "small group or 1vX" player.

Is it all of them? Obviously not, but how many are doing this?

P.S. whole lot of biting jabs that run their animation at a blazing clip in game as well... I do play a templar and the eye test of it speaks loudly.

But again, the cries of witch hunts always originate from the coven. You might want to think about that and what exactly I'm implying.

Dude..stop making *** up. CE allows you to do some crazy *** (infinite ultimate), but it doesn't let you use your imagination and do whatever you want. Depending on the game and how the code is, it does have limitations.

There still aren't any videos showing people dodge chancing infinite attacks in a row, because it wasn't possible. No one was changing game code to bypass cool-down time, movement speed works differently than animation time. Look how easily videos of people dumping infinite ultimate started popping up, because it was possible. You're saying that people dodging infinite attacks and insta-casting wrecking blow aren't catching the same attention and being recorded?

CE isn't guaranteed to work with everything you can make up in your mind, that's not how it works. It works best with static numbers, but you're talking about a buff that has to be reapplied to yourself with a skill. You love to just throw ridiculous *** out there, without any facts to back it up. I happen to agree with @mchermie that CE likely wasn't or isn't as bad in PVP as some people assume.

Yes some people used CE to hack the game, float and speed around like sonic dropping meteors. No the guy who beat you up with wrecking blow wasn't casting faster than you, because your reaction time is slower.

Sneaky Pete has a video of what I described up....

It not only speeds your animations and movement speed, it speeds up the creatures around you too.

Let's just say I recall a time where a certain BBQ dude would spam wrecking blows on your so fast you literally couldn't get away from him. You will say "Dude stop making stuff up"... lolz.

PS AlVxxxx is still in game dodging stuff for 20 seconds straight.

Please link the video, I couldn't find it.

The 3 times in recent memory that I've run into BBQ open world, I've won twice on my main and lost once my my alt magnb. We've fought far more than that, well into 1.6 and prior. He never hit me with wrecking blow, faster than anyone else did. The last time I saw the second person you mentioned we went back and forth in fights, he wasn't dodging all my attacks.

I'm not friends with the DC suspects that have been under fire, we fight pretty much every time we run into each other in PvP.

There is only one person you've ever mentioned, That I'll agree with you on and I believe he's been perma-banned. I won't say the name, but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

As Mojican has alluded to I find it funny all the folks who cheat all hangout together in the same TS and then have the audacity to come on here and talk all superior.

Fact is, cheaters killed this game for me completely. Long time sub since beta, canceled. Cheating in anything is the absolute worst thing you could ever do to your fellow brothers and sisters.

So congrats! You cheaters have succeeded in driving another honest player from the game, pretty soon you will have no one left to play with except other cheaters.

I have a snowballs chance in Hades that ZOS does anything to these cheats

You have no idea who is in Jules' ts so don't make such idiotic claims. A majority of people in her ts aren't cheaters.

A majority you say?....right...,one of these days you will learn to not say anything, you just flat out admitted that TS had cheaters that hang out in it LOL! They are just not a majority you say lol

Yeah.....

Birds of a feather flock together, where you find one cheater you will find more like minds

I know what I said. Yes, there are people who come in the ts that have been banned for cheating. But you making accusations that we all cheat is ridiculous.

Your analogies are nothing but a poor attempt at humor. You should stick to whatever your day job is and possibly act a little more mature.

Yup, exaptly what I thought you would say.

No guilds or groups worth having in the game associate in anyway with cheaters. Every guild in the game worth its salt wants nothing to do with these people and have adopted guild policies barring them from their guilds and TS. The fact you still associate with such people tells me everything I need to know, the fact you of all people are defending them is pretty sad...it's an indefensible position. You don't want to be labeled as a cheater? Then stop hanging out with people who cheat or hack.

No other credible guilds or people want anything to do with these people, you would be wise to do the same. Lest you be bundled right in with the lot of them, your choice not mine or anyone else's...nothing good can come from hanging around these people.

Good luck....probably gonna need it

I was friends with said "cheaters" long before they made the idiotic decision to use CE. Im not going to stop being friends with someone simply because they cheated. I don't know what kind of friend you are, but I don't just throw away a friendship because of a laps in judgement.
I am not, and haven't defended their actions. I haven't said anything that condones cheating.
I don't agree with your guilt by association ideology. Also, I am in plenty of repectable guilds. This is honestly becoming a witch hunt like people have predicted. It's really sad.

I'm the most loyal of loyal friend you will ever find, and I would give folks who cheated a 2nd chance if:

1. They are willing to own up to cheating.
2. Willing to admit they were wrong to cheat
3. Willing to take steps to prove not only to me but to everyone else they have learned from it.
4. Are willing to give back to the community of people that they stole joy from

Do those 4 things, and I'd have no issues but folks have to show they actually are remorseful and put a foot forward to make things right.

People who cheat or do things their peers know are ethically wrong and laugh about it and think it's funny are not people I would keep a friendship with because people like that were never my friend to begin with

Actions speak louder then words what people say and what people do are two different things and what they do matters far more.

you should be surrounding yourself with friends who enrich your life that help you succeed and you help them. Character should be a big factor who you choose to surround yourself with, and if folks are not willing to do 1-4 then they really are not your friends, and when the chips are down they will be no where to be found.

You actually probably think I'm bagging on your friends, and you feel you need to defend them, but that's not the case. Those people and their character are only holding you back, holding you back from success. Even if they are just game friends, you should endeavor to surround yourself with good high quality character people, not cheaters.

If this were anything but a video game I would whole heartedly agree with you on everything you said. But, it's just a video game. It has no influence or relation on my real life. That is why I will not turn my back on them because of a bad decision to cheat on a video game.

zyk wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

There still aren't any videos showing people dodge chancing infinite attacks in a row, because it wasn't possible. No one was changing game code to bypass cool-down time, movement speed works differently than animation time. Look how easily videos of people dumping infinite ultimate started popping up, because it was possible. You're saying that people dodging infinite attacks and insta-casting wrecking blow aren't catching the same attention and being recorded?

That's not necessarily true. My understanding is that Cheat Engine is a general tool that is useless without memory addresses. Not all memory addresses are known to all users of CE. So no one knows the extent to which ESO may be exploited in this way.

It seems that this controversy erupted when what had been exclusive information became more widely known and we were all able to, finally, see irrefutable proof that these things were possible. However, that does not mean that only these things are possible.

I have not experimented with CE, so I cannot say for certain what is or is not possible. It has been suggested by those who have that increasing movement speed also reduces the GCD. Do you *know* that this is untrue? If so, how?

In regards to dodge chance, I think it's possible CE is to blame for the anomalous dodge chance many experienced and respected players have encountered. That there is no clear video evidence of someone blatantly abusing it does not mean it is not possible. It could also mean that particular knowledge is not widespread.

There is no way to know whether someone is cheating subtly or not. Just as it is wrong to assume every effective player is cheating, it is also inconsistent with human nature to assume cheating is not widespread when it is both easy and without consequence.

Unfortunately, the cold hard truth is that every great performance in PVP has to be taken with a grain of salt because this game presently has no security. It's still a good game to have fun with, but no accomplishment will have value until some semblance of integrity is achieved.

Cool-down and movement speed are two completely different things, you can see this in that one video of the speedhacker where his attacks fire off at a normal speed, but he moves like sonic (the video in the thread that blew this up). You can also change your movement speed in-game by default, but your attack speed would never change.

There are many videos and documentation on how CE works, quite easy to understand. CE works with static values that can be modified easily in-game, such as gold or ultimate or ammo in a FPS. In order to narrow down an address list you must do some searching, but since you cannot modify major evasion you'd never be able to lock it down.

This is just basic knowledge of how the system works, I'm not saying it's not possible but I still haven't seen anyone either in-game or in a video dodging every attack with shuffle, or insta-casting wrecking blow which would be very obvious.

The illusion of dodging multiple attacks is easy to achieve as a templar or DK with the right setup, you stack resistance and reduced damage taken, along with buffs like major mending and healing received, and of course shuffle or things like igneous nullifying crits, and impen. Ever since I started playing my stamina templar (this patch) I've got an increased rise in hate whispers regarding my ability to seemingly not take damage sometimes.

Lyar09 wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

I don't agree with your guilt by association ideology. Also, I am in plenty of repectable guilds. This is honestly becoming a witch hunt like people have predicted. It's really sad.

Uhh.. because there *are* witches.

If you want to stick by your friends, super. I think people should support their true friends. However, if you continue to play with these people, it will influence your credibility. It also impacts the merit of your arguments as you have a personal stake in defending cheaters.

A respectable gaming guild or organization of any kind should have a zero tolerance policy towards cheating. Without this, it has no credibility. Cheating in online games is a red line.

Like I said, I haven't defended them. I'm defending those who aren't cheaters that are getting labeled with guilt by association. Also, I haven't played in about a month but when I return in a couple days I don't plan on grouping with them.

First off, I hate the cheaters. It sucks to put in the time and effort to farm the gear and work on rotations just to have a few modified lines of code wreck you. I do not think he has to defend his RL friendship over a game related issue though.

Roechacca wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Howd this thread turn into a conversation about cheating? I stream every night I play and people like that fennel guy will still think I cheat. Some people wont be convinced otherwise on some things.. wouldnt argue with those people.

How did coke turn into Pepsi? Graham crackers into s'mores? Just let it happen.

Also, who cares if you stream an people think you cheat. Risk of being on the Internet. You knew that before plugging in the camera.

Huh? My point is... you can see pretty clearly Im not cheating on stream. You can literally see and replicate what is on screen. But people will say otherwise regardless.

Im pointing out people are in denial - dunno what you mean about risk of being on internet and being on cam.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Howd this thread turn into a conversation about cheating? I stream every night I play and people like that fennel guy will still think I cheat. Some people wont be convinced otherwise on some things.. wouldnt argue with those people.

How did coke turn into Pepsi? Graham crackers into s'mores? Just let it happen.

Also, who cares if you stream an people think you cheat. Risk of being on the Internet. You knew that before plugging in the camera.

Huh? My point is... you can see pretty clearly Im not cheating on stream. You can literally see and replicate what is on screen. But people will say otherwise regardless.

Im pointing out people are in denial - dunno what you mean about risk of being on internet and being on cam.

I've not once even hinted at you in the current cheatgate scandal.

I had some issues with stuff you did in the past, but that's stealing a piece of gum stuff.

At least you don't talk in the 3rd person (much) anymore, I highly recommend you have normal conversations like a normal person and keep doing it.

Btw you can't clearly see anything that being done on stream that is simple like increasing regen rates or whatever. You can't even realistically see ultimate rates being increased unless the person runs around flying in the air spamming ice comet.

God_flakes wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

mchermie wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

[I am not advocating singling out individual players out without evidence. I have promoted the opposite. The point is that cheating surely is an issue in ESO.

Oy.

Oh, ok, im glad to hear. Guess we're somewhat on the same page then. Maybe it seemed like I was denying the fact that cheating was an issue, but that was not my intention. I was trying to say that its not really a problem for the general players pvp-experience. Last time I think/knew I saw a cheater was when Zazeer ulted me to death, and thats a while ago now. We all kill some and die some, and I still havent met anyone who has been dominating me so hard that I thought there might have been something else behind. Therefore, from my experience, claiming that cheating is a big problem for ESO, is just not true.

Here is the problem with the line of thinking that it's not a problem... From what I saw of the speed hack and how every single turd running it was they don't stop at speed hacking. They speed up animation time as well (a la sneaky pete) and attack faster.

The difference between a 1 second dizzying swing and a .7 second dizzying swing is quite a lot. Particularly if you are also moving slower than the spammer.

It's actually their entire gameplay... to spam one ability on you while moving faster than you so you can't get away from them as they keep spamming it.

Does that play style sound familiar? e.g. every single DC "small group or 1vX" player.

Is it all of them? Obviously not, but how many are doing this?

P.S. whole lot of biting jabs that run their animation at a blazing clip in game as well... I do play a templar and the eye test of it speaks loudly.

But again, the cries of witch hunts always originate from the coven. You might want to think about that and what exactly I'm implying.

Dude..stop making *** up. CE allows you to do some crazy *** (infinite ultimate), but it doesn't let you use your imagination and do whatever you want. Depending on the game and how the code is, it does have limitations.

There still aren't any videos showing people dodge chancing infinite attacks in a row, because it wasn't possible. No one was changing game code to bypass cool-down time, movement speed works differently than animation time. Look how easily videos of people dumping infinite ultimate started popping up, because it was possible. You're saying that people dodging infinite attacks and insta-casting wrecking blow aren't catching the same attention and being recorded?

CE isn't guaranteed to work with everything you can make up in your mind, that's not how it works. It works best with static numbers, but you're talking about a buff that has to be reapplied to yourself with a skill. You love to just throw ridiculous *** out there, without any facts to back it up. I happen to agree with @mchermie that CE likely wasn't or isn't as bad in PVP as some people assume.

Yes some people used CE to hack the game, float and speed around like sonic dropping meteors. No the guy who beat you up with wrecking blow wasn't casting faster than you, because your reaction time is slower.

Sneaky Pete has a video of what I described up....

It not only speeds your animations and movement speed, it speeds up the creatures around you too.

Let's just say I recall a time where a certain BBQ dude would spam wrecking blows on your so fast you literally couldn't get away from him. You will say "Dude stop making stuff up"... lolz.

PS AlVxxxx is still in game dodging stuff for 20 seconds straight.

Please link the video, I couldn't find it.

The 3 times in recent memory that I've run into BBQ open world, I've won twice on my main and lost once my my alt magnb. We've fought far more than that, well into 1.6 and prior. He never hit me with wrecking blow, faster than anyone else did. The last time I saw the second person you mentioned we went back and forth in fights, he wasn't dodging all my attacks.

I'm not friends with the DC suspects that have been under fire, we fight pretty much every time we run into each other in PvP.

There is only one person you've ever mentioned, That I'll agree with you on and I believe he's been perma-banned. I won't say the name, but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Wait a minute...so we now know there is a SUPER DUPER easy third party add on that makes it disgustingly easy to cheat either softly or radically and you think only one person used it?


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA

You should read the documentation to see how it works first, oh wait.

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

As Mojican has alluded to I find it funny all the folks who cheat all hangout together in the same TS and then have the audacity to come on here and talk all superior.

Fact is, cheaters killed this game for me completely. Long time sub since beta, canceled. Cheating in anything is the absolute worst thing you could ever do to your fellow brothers and sisters.

So congrats! You cheaters have succeeded in driving another honest player from the game, pretty soon you will have no one left to play with except other cheaters.

I have a snowballs chance in Hades that ZOS does anything to these cheats

You have no idea who is in Jules' ts so don't make such idiotic claims. A majority of people in her ts aren't cheaters.

A majority you say?....right...,one of these days you will learn to not say anything, you just flat out admitted that TS had cheaters that hang out in it LOL! They are just not a majority you say lol

Yeah.....

Birds of a feather flock together, where you find one cheater you will find more like minds

I know what I said. Yes, there are people who come in the ts that have been banned for cheating. But you making accusations that we all cheat is ridiculous.

Your analogies are nothing but a poor attempt at humor. You should stick to whatever your day job is and possibly act a little more mature.

Yup, exaptly what I thought you would say.

No guilds or groups worth having in the game associate in anyway with cheaters. Every guild in the game worth its salt wants nothing to do with these people and have adopted guild policies barring them from their guilds and TS. The fact you still associate with such people tells me everything I need to know, the fact you of all people are defending them is pretty sad...it's an indefensible position. You don't want to be labeled as a cheater? Then stop hanging out with people who cheat or hack.

No other credible guilds or people want anything to do with these people, you would be wise to do the same. Lest you be bundled right in with the lot of them, your choice not mine or anyone else's...nothing good can come from hanging around these people.

Good luck....probably gonna need it

I was friends with said "cheaters" long before they made the idiotic decision to use CE. Im not going to stop being friends with someone simply because they cheated. I don't know what kind of friend you are, but I don't just throw away a friendship because of a laps in judgement.
I am not, and haven't defended their actions. I haven't said anything that condones cheating.
I don't agree with your guilt by association ideology. Also, I am in plenty of repectable guilds. This is honestly becoming a witch hunt like people have predicted. It's really sad.

I'm the most loyal of loyal friend you will ever find, and I would give folks who cheated a 2nd chance if:

1. They are willing to own up to cheating.
2. Willing to admit they were wrong to cheat
3. Willing to take steps to prove not only to me but to everyone else they have learned from it.
4. Are willing to give back to the community of people that they stole joy from

Do those 4 things, and I'd have no issues but folks have to show they actually are remorseful and put a foot forward to make things right.

People who cheat or do things their peers know are ethically wrong and laugh about it and think it's funny are not people I would keep a friendship with because people like that were never my friend to begin with

Actions speak louder then words what people say and what people do are two different things and what they do matters far more.

you should be surrounding yourself with friends who enrich your life that help you succeed and you help them. Character should be a big factor who you choose to surround yourself with, and if folks are not willing to do 1-4 then they really are not your friends, and when the chips are down they will be no where to be found.

You actually probably think I'm bagging on your friends, and you feel you need to defend them, but that's not the case. Those people and their character are only holding you back, holding you back from success. Even if they are just game friends, you should endeavor to surround yourself with good high quality character people, not cheaters.

If this were anything but a video game I would whole heartedly agree with you on everything you said. But, it's just a video game. It has no influence or relation on my real life. That is why I will not turn my back on them because of a bad decision to cheat on a video game.

Real friends stick with you through the good times and the bad times. A real friend cares how their friends life is developing, and that they are making the right decisions. They don't laugh when their alcoholic friend says "time to drink more beer". They confront them on their alcoholism. That is what he is trying to say, and I agree, sometimes it's hard to be someones friend but sometimes the easy way isn't being a friend it's being a buddy.

This is a game but it's also not that different from reality. All interaction in the real world is done through a medium, whether it be our bodies, the air that caries our voices or the light that carries our vision. The game is just another medium of interaction between one person and another person. The non physical interaction is no less real or weighted than if it was carried across air particles. The things we put value into within the game may not be literally true, but they derive their illusion from abstract objects in the real world. Things like justice, honor, friendship (as is the current case), Sports, Competition. Sure those abstract objects are borrowed to bring life to the game, but those things are borrowed in the real world. They have no substance that ties them to matter only.

Matter is the least meaningful thing in the entire universe. It's not what makes something meaningful or what gives it meaning. It is the reverse, meaning is applied to matter. We just say "the real world" to distinguish from fantasy, not matter and non matter things in a direction of importance. For life creatures the source of meaning comes from whatever abstract objects are, and oneself. Meaning gets applied whether it's Protons and Neutrons or if it's just electrons.

Holy cow that turned into a long post. I swear it didn't look that long when I wrote it.