One world for crafting

JKorr · June 2016

Any information about how the "everything leveled everywhere" is going to work for crafting? If it works like Hew's Bane and Orsinium, I think it is going to suck big time.

STEVIL · June 2016

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

Nestor · June 2016

But what are they going to base the 50/50 on? Character and Crafting Level? Then Crafters will not be able to farm for low level mats for Alts and Guild Mates. Yes, less characters will need the intermediate mats, but there are enough that will. Not every one who plays the game has 160CPs.

So there are 3 things that they could scale the mats to, Zone, Character and Crafting Level. Which do you pick? I doubt a 3 way split would work very well.

JKorr · June 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

You might ignore the lower tier materials.

I craft for 5 guilds, 4 of whom have a lot of new players. I need the lower level stuff. I can take my cp140/v14 maxed out crafting skills character to Stonefalls and collect iron ore. I can take her to Hew's Bane and Orsinium and collect rubedite. If the change is going to mean everything everywhere is leveled to her, then good-bye iron and anything other than rubedite level.

Its going to be just as bad if they match it to the crafting skill level. I don't want to have to buy more characters and keep them at low level just to go harvest mats. That would work for the first tier materials, but then I'd need to have another leveled just enough for the next area, and the next, and so on.

BergisMacBride · June 2016

Great so now I will have to have crafters at every skill level material just so I have materials for lower levels.

Guess I'll need those extra character slots after all.

IMO, we as players should have some form of access to harvest all levels of materials in game, particularly if we are a master crafter. Perhaps a toggle switch so we can select what level materials we want to harvest in a given zone?

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

I'm wondering if Merchant Kiosks will become an issue or if they'll add more .

Reverb · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm wondering if Merchant Kiosks will become an issue or if they'll add more .

Why would they be an issue? The traders are currently the same no matter the faction instance. Right now if Guild XYZ has a trader in Wayrest, all players see the same guild, wether you're in Wayrest as your Silver, Gold, or home zone. One Tamriel won't be any different - one guild per trader regardless of alliance.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Reverb wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I'm wondering if Merchant Kiosks will become an issue or if they'll add more .

Why would they be an issue? The traders are currently the same no matter the faction instance. Right now if Guild XYZ has a trader in Wayrest, all players see the same guild, wether you're in Wayrest as your Silver, Gold, or home zone. One Tamriel won't be any different - one guild per trader regardless of alliance.

Oh ok . I dint know that . I assumed they were imstanced with faction .

STEVIL · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

But what are they going to base the 50/50 on? Character and Crafting Level? Then Crafters will not be able to farm for low level mats for Alts and Guild Mates. Yes, less characters will need the intermediate mats, but there are enough that will. Not every one who plays the game has 160CPs.

So there are 3 things that they could scale the mats to, Zone, Character and Crafting Level. Which do you pick? I doubt a 3 way split would work very well.

Yes the scaling is split btwn character and skill.
Alts and guild mates can farm whereever they are and get 50% level appropriate mats. So if they enter silver at 90cp, they startvsering 90 cp mats in that first zone, not having to wait for... old way... next to last gold zone.
And in cases where for the few in between you hit shortage... gold to vendors.

Not everyone in the game now has 160, yes, but far far fewer now need three zones of kresh.

STEVIL · June 2016

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

You might ignore the lower tier materials.

I craft for 5 guilds, 4 of whom have a lot of new players. I need the lower level stuff. I can take my cp140/v14 maxed out crafting skills character to Stonefalls and collect iron ore. I can take her to Hew's Bane and Orsinium and collect rubedite. If the change is going to mean everything everywhere is leveled to her, then good-bye iron and anything other than rubedite level.

Its going to be just as bad if they match it to the crafting skill level. I don't want to have to buy more characters and keep them at low level just to go harvest mats. That would work for the first tier materials, but then I'd need to have another leveled just enough for the next area, and the next, and so on.

"Goodbye iron" only if you have no other charscter without blacksmithing. A character without blackdmithing finds lotsa iron. I know cuz i bought new character slots and between any of the other characters keeping lower mats in play for the newbies is not a prob at all. I am swimming in iron, jute, rawhide, maple without once sending anyone to a specific zone to gather it.

Besides, mostly the scaling is for silver/gold. I dont think they scale mats for bronze BECAUSE that progression still follows the old linear no skips progression.

Its kresh, mahogany, quicksilver, etc the mid-tier vet level mats which will be skipped past or at least not synced with pc level in fixed zones.

Really, c'mon, isnt it better to have every gold silver chacter able to grab mats whereever they are and get level appropriate stuff as they play than to have to do specific trip to zones to farm needed mats and have many silver gold characters running in areas with inappropriately scaled mats to them?

I predict inside 2 months of seeing the runes in play almost nobody will be yelling for return to old zonebfixed silver/gold potencies. Demand is changed, supply needs to as well. Same applies to the dissatisfaction that will grow over zone fixed nodes for other crafts.

Aemon_Isklexi · June 2016

What about crafting writs? They require gear from the CP150 tier and the next tier down. If all gathering nodes are based on 50/50 level/skill, my primary crafter will only ever find rubedite and ancestor silk. He won't be able to farm for voidsilk, etc. I haven't leveled crafting on any other characters, so they would all be ancestor silk or flax, i.e., not helping.

STEVIL · June 2016

Aemon_Isklexi wrote: »

What about crafting writs? They require gear from the CP150 tier and the next tier down. If all gathering nodes are based on 50/50 level/skill, my primary crafter will only ever find rubedite and ancestor silk. He won't be able to farm for voidsilk, etc. I haven't leveled crafting on any other characters, so they would all be ancestor silk or flax, i.e., not helping.

I run writs now. In the top tier zones the drops include nightwood and shadowspin etc. I haave no probs keeping my writs going with all cp160 chars with either rank 50 or rank 1 in crafts. The exception is sometimes wood, nightwood, runs low. But i think that just frequency of use.. only one possible wood "armor"slot on enemies. They also appear in chests.

But agsin, a key component is the ability to buy for gold ehen occasional slumps occur.

Nestor · June 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

not having to wait for... old way... next to last gold zone.
And in cases where for the few in between you hit shortage... gold to vendors.

You don't have to wait now, just open up the map and port to any Zone you want to Farm at.

JKorr · June 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

You might ignore the lower tier materials.

I craft for 5 guilds, 4 of whom have a lot of new players. I need the lower level stuff. I can take my cp140/v14 maxed out crafting skills character to Stonefalls and collect iron ore. I can take her to Hew's Bane and Orsinium and collect rubedite. If the change is going to mean everything everywhere is leveled to her, then good-bye iron and anything other than rubedite level.

Its going to be just as bad if they match it to the crafting skill level. I don't want to have to buy more characters and keep them at low level just to go harvest mats. That would work for the first tier materials, but then I'd need to have another leveled just enough for the next area, and the next, and so on.

"Goodbye iron" only if you have no other charscter without blacksmithing. A character without blackdmithing finds lotsa iron. I know cuz i bought new character slots and between any of the other characters keeping lower mats in play for the newbies is not a prob at all. I am swimming in iron, jute, rawhide, maple without once sending anyone to a specific zone to gather it.

Besides, mostly the scaling is for silver/gold. I dont think they scale mats for bronze BECAUSE that progression still follows the old linear no skips progression.

Its kresh, mahogany, quicksilver, etc the mid-tier vet level mats which will be skipped past or at least not synced with pc level in fixed zones.

Really, c'mon, isnt it better to have every gold silver chacter able to grab mats whereever they are and get level appropriate stuff as they play than to have to do specific trip to zones to farm needed mats and have many silver gold characters running in areas with inappropriately scaled mats to them?

I predict inside 2 months of seeing the runes in play almost nobody will be yelling for return to old zonebfixed silver/gold potencies. Demand is changed, supply needs to as well. Same applies to the dissatisfaction that will grow over zone fixed nodes for other crafts.

That is the problem, in fact.

I've been playing since early release. Out of the 8 character slots, I've had five "from the beginning" characters. All of them are crafters, although not all of them are totally maxed out for every craft. None of them will be able to find iron or the lower level stuff. At the most I'll be getting voidstone and rubedite level. The three "new" characters I have are level 30ish, and have their crafting skills leveled as much as possible. none of them will be finding iron either.

I craft for all 5 guilds that I belong to. One of them has been around for long enough that the majority of members are v16/cp160 level characters, so I don't have to worry about the low level mats for them. The other 4 guilds, not so much. Crafting for multiple people use a lot more mats than crafting for yourself. I've gone through a full stack of mats making gear for multiple people. If I was crafting simply for myself, I wouldn't have a care about it. If I needed the stuff for some reason I could just buy it. Crafting for multiple people though, that can take a lot of mats.

Some new players have no idea where to look for mats, or what mats are, for that matter. Asking them to provide their own mats would be a headache. My issue, I know, but needing to take someone and lead them to a node to show them "metallic looking blob near cliffs/free-standing boulders" need to be harvested, and no, you don't need to equip a pickax to do it can be somewhat aggravating.

STEVIL · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

not having to wait for... old way... next to last gold zone.
And in cases where for the few in between you hit shortage... gold to vendors.

You don't have to wait now, just open up the map and port to any Zone you want to Farm at.

VERY NICE EDIT THERE. Kudos for skill in the Misinformation age.

The statement you edited out to make your point referred to characters starting silver at 90cp, as an example.

Right now they cannot just open map and port. The first zones wayshrines are shown but the others, specifically the mentioned next to last gold. They have to get there to unlock those shrines. To do that they have to work to get there, travel overland from limited areas or whatever but definitely more than open map and port.

Or in scaled nodes just walk up to any node and click E.

Thats the difference.

Without the need for creative edits.

EDIT
Just realized an ambassador just did that edit out of context. Wow. Not what i expected.

STEVIL · June 2016

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

You might ignore the lower tier materials.

I craft for 5 guilds, 4 of whom have a lot of new players. I need the lower level stuff. I can take my cp140/v14 maxed out crafting skills character to Stonefalls and collect iron ore. I can take her to Hew's Bane and Orsinium and collect rubedite. If the change is going to mean everything everywhere is leveled to her, then good-bye iron and anything other than rubedite level.

Its going to be just as bad if they match it to the crafting skill level. I don't want to have to buy more characters and keep them at low level just to go harvest mats. That would work for the first tier materials, but then I'd need to have another leveled just enough for the next area, and the next, and so on.

"Goodbye iron" only if you have no other charscter without blacksmithing. A character without blackdmithing finds lotsa iron. I know cuz i bought new character slots and between any of the other characters keeping lower mats in play for the newbies is not a prob at all. I am swimming in iron, jute, rawhide, maple without once sending anyone to a specific zone to gather it.

Besides, mostly the scaling is for silver/gold. I dont think they scale mats for bronze BECAUSE that progression still follows the old linear no skips progression.

Its kresh, mahogany, quicksilver, etc the mid-tier vet level mats which will be skipped past or at least not synced with pc level in fixed zones.

Really, c'mon, isnt it better to have every gold silver chacter able to grab mats whereever they are and get level appropriate stuff as they play than to have to do specific trip to zones to farm needed mats and have many silver gold characters running in areas with inappropriately scaled mats to them?

I predict inside 2 months of seeing the runes in play almost nobody will be yelling for return to old zonebfixed silver/gold potencies. Demand is changed, supply needs to as well. Same applies to the dissatisfaction that will grow over zone fixed nodes for other crafts.

That is the problem, in fact.

I've been playing since early release. Out of the 8 character slots, I've had five "from the beginning" characters. All of them are crafters, although not all of them are totally maxed out for every craft. None of them will be able to find iron or the lower level stuff. At the most I'll be getting voidstone and rubedite level. The three "new" characters I have are level 30ish, and have their crafting skills leveled as much as possible. none of them will be finding iron either.

I craft for all 5 guilds that I belong to. One of them has been around for long enough that the majority of members are v16/cp160 level characters, so I don't have to worry about the low level mats for them. The other 4 guilds, not so much. Crafting for multiple people use a lot more mats than crafting for yourself. I've gone through a full stack of mats making gear for multiple people. If I was crafting simply for myself, I wouldn't have a care about it. If I needed the stuff for some reason I could just buy it. Crafting for multiple people though, that can take a lot of mats.

Some new players have no idea where to look for mats, or what mats are, for that matter. Asking them to provide their own mats would be a headache. My issue, I know, but needing to take someone and lead them to a node to show them "metallic looking blob near cliffs/free-standing boulders" need to be harvested, and no, you don't need to equip a pickax to do it can be somewhat aggravating.

To be clesr are you saying that every character has advanced every craft?

I played since pre-order. Of my 8 characters, i have max 50 crsfts for 3 provisioners, 3 enchanters, 2 clothiers, 1 alchemist,1 blacksmith and 1 woodworker. I also craft to help others thpugh not to your scale.

I can gather entry mats iron etc easy anywhere. Bc while most character are maxed crafters they arent maxed in ALL CRAFTS AT ONCE.

But lets assume every character you have had skills to max or significantly advance every single craft line so you literally cannot farm mats for low in scaled zones, silver and gold.

The bronze zones which still have linear no leapfrog progression should still have zone locked mats so you could go there to farm.

But lets say somehow thats not enough for you.
Lets say buying from merchants cheaply the low level mats isnt enough for you either.

Which is better game design to serve the new model, putting players who never learned what mats are in zones where they may see only off scale mats they cannot use, not applicable to their level, orscaling mats they run across to their level?

I believe a lot more players in the leapfrog silver gold zones will be better served by having nodes scaled to their level/skill and having the ability to merant lower ones if needed than there are folks with no non advanced in any craft characters.

But, just a few months of fixed zone mats in gold and silver outta make the point for me.

BergisMacBride · June 2016

Unless there is something I missed in reading about One Tamriel, I strongly suspect they will have craft materials scale 50/50 in ALL zones.

I currently have 5 active CP 160 chars, maxed in all crafts (for material usage) that run daily writs and have hirelings - I do this mainly for gold tempers from the writs. As it stands now I have to periodically acquire each of the CP 140 mats through farming or guild traders to meet the demands of the writs - the amount I get from surveys on all these chars just isn't enough to keep up with the writ requirements (voidstone is usually what I run out of the most, due to the one writ every three days that requires 4 voidstone items). If the new zones and Craglorn all scale 50/50 and the writs are unchanged, there is no way I will be able to continue doing these writs.

Here are some of my thoughts on the CP level system, One Tamriel and how it relates to crafting:

1. There needs to be a re-balancing of material levels as it relates to CP levels and gear - the current CP 10-140 mats are only going to be needed for a relatively brief period of time during a given players' account life - once those levels are achieved, that person's account will never need them again for armor or weapons. Either redistribute these mats to other levels, do away with them or stretch out their appropriate levels when(if) the CP\armor levels get raised.

2. Writs should never require materials outside of the skill level of the crafter, and writ surveys acquired from these should provide mats appropriate for the crafter's skill level.

3. As a matter of principle and common sense, IMO, a master crafter in any given craft should be able to harvest in the wild all basic crafting materials at any level and never be required to purchase these items from a vendor. This currently isn't the case for Potency runes as they scale in all zones. As I said above, I strongly suspect that all materials and all zones will eventually scale 50/50 with One Tamriel. If you're going to give us that system , then give us a Master Crafter perk - a /toggle that lets us select the level mats we can harvest in a zone for when we need them.

Couple of tangential thoughts on the current runestone system:

1. There are WAY too many Aspect and Essence Stones harvested for the potencies that drop - more than ever will or could be used. Including writ surveys (which don't drop potencies), I'm acquiring 6-7 of each of these types for every potency harvested. Serious imbalance there, IMO.

2. Scaling (particularly in the level 1-50 zones) is, IMO, just wrong. My Master Enchanter should be able to harvest what I need when I need it by going to those zones. Only reason I'm not even more torqued about this is I acquired and horded the sh*t outta these from all levels prior to the DB release. (and yes, I get the whole silver\gold CP scaling argument being made and have no real issue with that in practice - the real problem is that ZOS hasn't decided how these CP 10-140 mats are going to fit into their new levelling system, not the presence\lack of scaling)

Point remains: being able to harvest what I when I want = GOOD; being forced to buy from a vendor = BAD.

3. Gimme my multicolored runestones back! I assume you're going to keep the current harvesting system - fine - just have them spawn in the previous colors randomly. The monocolor orange ones are just, boring.....

STEVIL · June 2016

@BergisMacBride

Mostly agree

Fwiw
I believe the nodes in bronze zones for main quest lvl 3-50 lines progression should remain zone fixed.

Also a crafting option to use higher level mats to make lower level gear would serve the cp-based gear/progression world very well imo.

Mike0987 · June 2016

So if everything were leveled everywere then were would my master crafter get voidstone? The only place I know of would be on the crafting writs themselves, but then you would have to buy voidstone just to get a bit in return on the writ (assuming your lucky enough to get a survey). To me, once your at a certain level you should be able to set the level you wish to mine/pick weeds/cut logs up to your max current level. I store at least a stack of all levels so I have it available to craft for any level.

STEVIL · June 2016

Mike0987 wrote: »

So if everything were leveled everywere then were would my master crafter get voidstone? The only place I know of would be on the crafting writs themselves, but then you would have to buy voidstone just to get a bit in return on the writ (assuming your lucky enough to get a survey). To me, once your at a certain level you should be able to set the level you wish to mine/pick weeds/cut logs up to your max current level. I store at least a stack of all levels so I have it available to craft for any level.

Short answer - decon+survey

Running in wrothgar and hews and coast my master smith cp160+ almostt never has to fret over the writ secondaries, due to gains from decon drops and chests and the YUGE deliveries of those second tiers mats in the surveys.. I have no characters operating in a wsy that they farm those lower mats or in xones and the only time i find myself dhort for writs is the occasionsl nightwood. The steel, the hide and the cloth are usually flush.

However, again, i suggest being allowed to craft-down and have say rubedite fill in for voidsteel would alkeviate any worry.

I like that option better than self-hobbling your harvesting.

Ymmv.

Nestor · June 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

The statement you edited out to make your point referred to characters starting silver at 90cp, as an example.

Just realized an ambassador just did that edit out of context. Wow. Not what i expected.

No need to look for conspiracies, that was the only part of your post I wanted to reply to. The rest of your original post is still there, I did not edit it. Anyone who wants to read it, can do so in its original glory.

CP90s would be former Gold Zones and those are all unlocked currently as soon as you gain access to the first one. No matter what level CPs your referring to, under One Tamriel, all players have access to all zones right out of the wailing prison.

Now, on my max crafter, who does Wrothgar Writs, do you know how many Void and other CP90 to CP140 mats I have seen in Scaled Zones? 0, other than Surveys, and those are not a reliable source of mats. However, I can pop down to the last two zones for Gold and farm all I want, because those mats are not scaled to me.

I know you want to make the game mostly support end game players with regards to harvesting mats, but not everyone who plays is end game. Besides, its not like we can't farm the mats we need, end game or otherwise, given the current zone materials layout. The scheme you are proposing just limits a crafter/farmer to end game mats unless they are low level or only have a certain amount of points into the materials passives. As you said in a later post, it hobbles the crafter/farmer.

Jayne_Doe · June 2016

They really need to re-vamp the writ requirements to ONLY require mats that are the level of the writ. Since CP160 mats are now easy to get, no need to also craft void items.

Same for the Enchanting writs - they should not require a potency from the previous crafting tier every third writ! Just fix this for the crafting writs and that will alleviate some of the problems.

It doesn't fix the issue for crafters who craft for non-CP characters. Perhaps the player's alliance zone should remain unaffected, as previously mentioned, but it's doubtful they would do that since they've already changed Enchanting to be scaled 50/50 EVERYWHERE.

And while I'm on the subject of Enchanting, I had two surveys in my inventory last night and decided to see if I'd get a potency - I didn't get a single one! I did manage to find 3 potencies last night, but I had harvested over 20 nodes before I got them. So, the "one third of the time you'll find a potency" is misleading. I'm assuming the spawn chance is 33% or so, but that's for each node, which doesn't actually work out to "one third of the time." Unless, of course, some of those nodes I harvested had already had the potency taken out of them. Which is also a problem.

On the bright side, I ended up with around 10 Denatas and 15 Jejotas and 20 Tas! Plus a whole bunch of Okos, Denis, Makkos, and a smattering of a few other essences!

STEVIL · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

The statement you edited out to make your point referred to characters starting silver at 90cp, as an example.

Just realized an ambassador just did that edit out of context. Wow. Not what i expected.

No need to look for conspiracies, that was the only part of your post I wanted to reply to. The rest of your original post is still there, I did not edit it. Anyone who wants to read it, can do so in its original glory.

CP90s would be former Gold Zones and those are all unlocked currently as soon as you gain access to the first one. No matter what level CPs your referring to, under One Tamriel, all players have access to all zones right out of the wailing prison.

Now, on my max crafter, who does Wrothgar Writs, do you know how many Void and other CP90 to CP140 mats I have seen in Scaled Zones? 0, other than Surveys, and those are not a reliable source of mats. However, I can pop down to the last two zones for Gold and farm all I want, because those mats are not scaled to me.

I know you want to make the game mostly support end game players with regards to harvesting mats, but not everyone who plays is end game. Besides, its not like we can't farm the mats we need, end game or otherwise, given the current zone materials layout. The scheme you are proposing just limits a crafter/farmer to end game mats unless they are low level or only have a certain amount of points into the materials passives. As you said in a later post, it hobbles the crafter/farmer.

Huh?

Ok, to be clear my issue wasnt that you chose to respond to part of my post but that you edited from your quote the portion of that part and thus changed its context, making your response seem to be countering. Instead of responding to what i wrote, you changed its meaning then countered your new franken-post.

It was and is disengenuous.

And you still try to misrep the case i made.

ONE TAMRIEL is not now. So referencing what will be ione Tsmriel doednt support your open map and port now comment.

New silver players as i stated in the part you cut out of what you responded to and changed the mesning NOW cannot just open map and port to cp90/next to last gold zones. Only the opening zones have wayshrines opened up right away and only one of them. They have to then travel to and from to get to a former next to end gold zone for cp90 mats.

The reason this is relevent is obvious and as i stated, the percentsge of character who will need to get cp10-30, cp40-60, cp70-80, gear has changed. Many chacters eill hit lvl 50 and leapfro iinto some higher number of cp than the zone locked mats provide.

You represent like i am supporting mostly end game and that is bs. That is not what this is abput.

You will note my example was cp90 not cp160.

But for characters going into silver zones the norm will no longer be that they are at lvls of 48-vr2ish at start and so having three zones of vr1-3 equivalence makes sense. For anything except for first post-50 in acvount the character engagedbin silver zone one will be of a wide range of cp levels.

Instead of most new silvers being able ti quickly use the mats they are adventuring in and about in those zones for their charscters, theu will more likely to be seeing mats for gesr below the level they can equip.

So having the mats locked to the zone simply guarantees the mats found there wl more often now be of no direct use to the character running thru the content.

Whether that skew is young silver needing cp60, cp70, cp90 or cp150 is irrelevent. So its not, as you fabricate for me, about support end game.

Thats just misleading on your part.

I want the nodes a character farms in gold and silver zones to scale to that charscter skill/level so the typical character will be getting stuff they can use whereever they are.

If it was all end game support for me, i would want them all scaled to character level.

Now, SINCE I REALIZE this will be better for the typical character but not as good for dedicated crafters supporting others i also said you should allow merchants to sell the lower mats for the occasions when its needed. I also suggested later on allowing higher level mats to be used for crafting lower scale gear.

All of which by you gets rebranded as "I know you want to make the game mostly support end game players with regards to harvesting mats" and that is absurd.

The more absurd aspect is that the folks arguing agsinst it serm to be high end frsfters who somehow are against the system allowing silver and gold players to have a system where every node their charscter waljs paswill spaen mats relevent to the character in order to keep easy access to their own crafters running out to gather mats for the new silvers or whatever. Not sure why, unless its a market thing.

In summary, to better support the new cp-leveled system where characters entering silver are no longer as likely to be of levrl to need three zones of kresh etc... i support the following
1 all silver gold zones scale all nodes to 50/50 char cp or skill levrl
2 all crafting vendors sell the levrl control mats to cover odd cases.
3 it become possible to use higher cp mats to craft lower cp gear.
4. Bronze zones, where linear leveling still is in effect retain their zone defined mats.

This serves the cp progression and leapfrog into silver unpredictability better than silver and gold zone locked nodes do currently.

You may not agree, thats fine.
You deserve props as smbassador and been around done that and all.
But recutting, repackaging and rebranding this position the way you have been belies all that.
IMO

That is all i have to say on the subject.

JKorr · June 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree completely. They need the 50/50 scaling of nodes everywhere.

They need it now.

That is bc of the new cp account based scheme for progression.

Fewer chars will be able to use zone locked mats now. Folks will be in silver cp40 zone who are cp100, cp90, cp 160 etc routinely

The 50/50 char level / skill level scaling is necessary to support the post-DB leveling.

Already now i ignore wood, ore etc oitside of orsinium, hews, gold coast. Never need quicksilver.

Implement it like runes. Scale 50/50 everywhere AND sell level limiting comps in vendors for the odd circumstances.

You might ignore the lower tier materials.

I craft for 5 guilds, 4 of whom have a lot of new players. I need the lower level stuff. I can take my cp140/v14 maxed out crafting skills character to Stonefalls and collect iron ore. I can take her to Hew's Bane and Orsinium and collect rubedite. If the change is going to mean everything everywhere is leveled to her, then good-bye iron and anything other than rubedite level.

Its going to be just as bad if they match it to the crafting skill level. I don't want to have to buy more characters and keep them at low level just to go harvest mats. That would work for the first tier materials, but then I'd need to have another leveled just enough for the next area, and the next, and so on.

"Goodbye iron" only if you have no other charscter without blacksmithing. A character without blackdmithing finds lotsa iron. I know cuz i bought new character slots and between any of the other characters keeping lower mats in play for the newbies is not a prob at all. I am swimming in iron, jute, rawhide, maple without once sending anyone to a specific zone to gather it.

Besides, mostly the scaling is for silver/gold. I dont think they scale mats for bronze BECAUSE that progression still follows the old linear no skips progression.

Its kresh, mahogany, quicksilver, etc the mid-tier vet level mats which will be skipped past or at least not synced with pc level in fixed zones.

Really, c'mon, isnt it better to have every gold silver chacter able to grab mats whereever they are and get level appropriate stuff as they play than to have to do specific trip to zones to farm needed mats and have many silver gold characters running in areas with inappropriately scaled mats to them?

I predict inside 2 months of seeing the runes in play almost nobody will be yelling for return to old zonebfixed silver/gold potencies. Demand is changed, supply needs to as well. Same applies to the dissatisfaction that will grow over zone fixed nodes for other crafts.

That is the problem, in fact.

I've been playing since early release. Out of the 8 character slots, I've had five "from the beginning" characters. All of them are crafters, although not all of them are totally maxed out for every craft. None of them will be able to find iron or the lower level stuff. At the most I'll be getting voidstone and rubedite level. The three "new" characters I have are level 30ish, and have their crafting skills leveled as much as possible. none of them will be finding iron either.

I craft for all 5 guilds that I belong to. One of them has been around for long enough that the majority of members are v16/cp160 level characters, so I don't have to worry about the low level mats for them. The other 4 guilds, not so much. Crafting for multiple people use a lot more mats than crafting for yourself. I've gone through a full stack of mats making gear for multiple people. If I was crafting simply for myself, I wouldn't have a care about it. If I needed the stuff for some reason I could just buy it. Crafting for multiple people though, that can take a lot of mats.

Some new players have no idea where to look for mats, or what mats are, for that matter. Asking them to provide their own mats would be a headache. My issue, I know, but needing to take someone and lead them to a node to show them "metallic looking blob near cliffs/free-standing boulders" need to be harvested, and no, you don't need to equip a pickax to do it can be somewhat aggravating.

To be clesr are you saying that every character has advanced every craft?

I played since pre-order. Of my 8 characters, i have max 50 crsfts for 3 provisioners, 3 enchanters, 2 clothiers, 1 alchemist,1 blacksmith and 1 woodworker. I also craft to help others thpugh not to your scale.

I can gather entry mats iron etc easy anywhere. Bc while most character are maxed crafters they arent maxed in ALL CRAFTS AT ONCE.

But lets assume every character you have had skills to max or significantly advance every single craft line so you literally cannot farm mats for low in scaled zones, silver and gold.

The bronze zones which still have linear no leapfrog progression should still have zone locked mats so you could go there to farm.

But lets say somehow thats not enough for you.
Lets say buying from merchants cheaply the low level mats isnt enough for you either.

Which is better game design to serve the new model, putting players who never learned what mats are in zones where they may see only off scale mats they cannot use, not applicable to their level, orscaling mats they run across to their level?

I believe a lot more players in the leapfrog silver gold zones will be better served by having nodes scaled to their level/skill and having the ability to merant lower ones if needed than there are folks with no non advanced in any craft characters.

But, just a few months of fixed zone mats in gold and silver outta make the point for me.

Buying cheaply would work. Depending on the new players harvesting the stuff and selling it cheaply, of course. I'm kinda hung up on "cheaply' because I don't sell stuff, I only do quests and writs and get the reward gold. I don't charge people in my guilds for crafting. While I do have a lot of the motifs, I don't have them all yet, and some of them are on the kind of expensive side. Look at the prices for some of the newer motifs. I have 36000 gold in the bank right now, with probably 15,000 more on various characters. I think the cheapest I saw akaviri was in the 70,000s. I'll get them eventually, but in the meantime I still run out of gold because of the way I play.

And yes, all of my characters have improved crafting skills to the point I wouldn't find the lowest level stuff. I'm planning on adding a couple of slots for new characters, so one way or another, I'll work something out.

I haven't done it in a while, but can't you harvest mats you can't use yet? You can't use them, but that doesn't mean you can't collect them.

MasterGohan · June 2016

Why is everyone talking about "silver and gold" zones? When One Tamriel hits there will be no silver or gold. All three factions areas will be level 1-50 zones. There will be no 50+ zones other than the dlc zones so finding quicksilver etc will be a mute point. All 3 starter zones will be starter ones no matter who is there. They'll be scaled but still starter zones.