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Respawn Timers need to be reduced for One Tamriel or we're all doomed

Transairion
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Obvious information is obvious, but I still think it needs to be said.

I'm all for all players being in the same "zones" as one another, but right now go to any starting zones and see the masses of players all questing and overlapping: mobs end up far and few between and Dolems and Bosses around the map are always inactive/missing. One of the worst parts by far of an MMO is when you're on a quest and then every mob you're supposed to fight is dead, so you either can't complete the mission at all (because the mobs drop a quest item or you need to kill a boss) or you essentially walk through an enemy fortress without a single enemy alive and can't enjoy the experience at all.

So Zenimax, please, if you're set on putting us all into the same zones be aware that under the current respawn rates mobs will be missing more often than they're spawned due to the sheer amount of players going through the content. I don't particularly find the idea of waiting around for mobs to respawn appealing, and neither should you. Plan for it and adjust respawns accordingly when you add this feature so we can all quest happily, not play the waiting game!


TLDR: Starting zones are already a barren wasteland lacking in mobs with only one faction; imagine this for all zones. If you add more players Zenimax, make the mobs respawn fast enough people can quest without the zones being devoid of NPC's because they're all dead.
Edited by Transairion on June 14, 2016 5:15AM
  • susmitds
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    Potential Concerns:

    • There would no proper XP grind zones after Lv 50 except DLC zones any more. For any player without access to the DLCs getting from 0 to 501CP would become a nightmare.
    • The number of instances of every zone would become one from three. This means crowd would increase by at least twice. The cities would become a lot more laggy and the number of disconnects and infinite loading times are set to increase.
    • Farming would become a lot harder due to the decrease of the number of instances. In all popular farming zones like Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, Craglorn there would be around three times more farmers. But on the other hand, game wide spawn of all mats would decrease three times due to the decreased number of instances, hence nodes. Plus, farmers would no longer be able to take advantage of almost empty Cadwell Zones while farming.
    • The same also applies to thieving. More thieves, more competition, less loot to draw from. Currently the empty Cadwell Zones are very reliable for thieving compared to the main alliance zones. Loss of these empty instances is a HUGE hit to thieving.
    • Same is going to be applicable to XP grind spots. The number of grinders in a particular spot would rise steeply. The popular grind spots would be filled at most times.
    • The battle scaling would make the zone mobs even easier for new players and old players alike.
    • According to Matt, this would create an incentive for grouping. But currently it is very easy to complete world dungeons and all quests solo. In fact, with just dropped gear, you can easily kill mobs five or more levels above you without any CP once you are accustomed to your character. With battle levelled zones it is going to be even easier. So there is hardly any need to group outside of dungeons, guild activities and RP.
    • There would be huge inflation in the prices of almost everything in game but earning gold would become much harder. We have already seen a maqssive price surge on gear mats since DB. The changes would push the price further up in a HUGE ratio. This won't be a problem for the old players with millions in their banks. But newer players would be a lot more trouble gearing up their characters with the changes.
    • Character progression took a massive hit with VR removal in DB patch. Enforced Battle leveling might nail the coffin of character progression.

    Some solutions:
    • Increase the refresh rate of nodes by 2.5x and increase their quantities by 50%.
    • Increase the refresh rate of containers for stealing from by 3x.
    • Increase the respawn rate of safeboxes, chests and thieves' troves by 2.5x and give them a 50% chance to contain an extra item.
    • Make all enemies in the second zones of each alliance onwards significantly harder with more health and damage. Give a few enemies in every mob a timed interrupt-able very hard hitting ability like the Iron Orc Rangers in Upper Craglorn. Make NPC healers' healing abilities a lot more powerful. Give the tanky NPCs a lot more armor and HP. Give some instant CC abilities to every damage dealing NPC, like the bloodfiends and Nightblade type NPCs have with their gap closers. This would make the game combat much more interesting. With battle-levelling, the new players would still able to kill enemies quite easily. The increased difficulty would also make them much more used to the tougher stuff later on. It would also give older players some incentive to revisit the zones and do PvE there and also give some incentive to group up in PvE content for the newer players.
    • Introduce dynamic respawning to all mobs in the zones in proportion to their rate of death, like it is currently in IC sewers.
    • Increase the gold dropped by mobs by 2x.
    • Assign particular sets to drop from particular types of enemies. E.g. O.75% chance to Armor of the Construct set pieces from the Dwarven constructs, 0.5% chance to drop Hircine's Veneer set pieces from wood creatures, 0.75% chance to drop Night Mother's Embrace set pieces from Nightblade type enemies etc. Also increase the rewards obtained from World bosses and public dungeons, like Agility/Willpower/Endurance drop chances. And maybe 18% chance to drop Silver Pledge keys, 6% chance to drop Gold Pledge keys from World bosses. Also add some similar drop chances to the "Area of Interest" enemies.
    • The basics of what I am saying is to make the general zone combat harder and add potential rewards to it. This kind of risk and reward system would make combat much more interesting for old and new players alike.
  • dpencil
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    Kai mentioned in the German forum that if a zone gets really full it automatically creates a new instance, so it won't necessarily mean all the zones will be overcrowded. They will probably be more populated, but the devs have control over how many concurrent players can be in a zone at one time before creating further instances of it.
  • Rev Rielle
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    At first glimpse one might think: Three times the players, but three times the area available also.
    However, the area available will be much much more than just three times:

    At the moment when leveling 1-50: You have ~4 zones.
    After One Tamriel is released: You'll have ~22 possible zones.

    Leveling post 50: Currently you have roughly ~5 zones available.
    Post One Tamriel release: You will have ~22 zones.


    Sure some hubs will inevitably become more populated, but there are already mechanism in place for that; phasing.

    I don't see it being a problem.
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • Turelus
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    Doesn't the game have multiple phases/instances though? Sure it's all one megaserver but outside of Cyrodiil it was my understanding that if a zone is populated enough it starts more instances for players.

    Also there was never really an issue at launch with spawn times of monsters and that had thousands of people all in the same zones. The only time it was really an issue is when areas had buggy or low timers which ZOS went back and changed.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • Wrecking_Blow_Spam
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    Gold and silver keys from world bosses? Nice joke, people will dedicate their eso life to farming them...
    Xbox one EU
    8 Flawless conquerors on all class specs (4 stam, 4 magicka)
    Doesn't stand in red
  • Atarax
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    OP, just a bit of history on the server tech used in ESO.

    If lots of players are in one area, the game creates a new instance of that area. It's really not a problem here to have everyone be able to access all the same zones at any point in time. Not everyone will be in the same instance, even if they're in the same zone.
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  • susmitds
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    Atarax wrote: »
    OP, just a bit of history on the server tech used in ESO.

    If lots of players are in one area, the game creates a new instance of that area. It's really not a problem here to have everyone be able to access all the same zones at any point in time. Not everyone will be in the same instance, even if they're in the same zone.

    Even then thieving and farming would be a nightmare. Suppose in craglorn, there would like 3x more farmers but it wont really fill the instance yet increase competition by 200%. Or say thieving, which is going to be extremely annoying without the empty Cadwell zones.
  • Iluvrien
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Doesn't the game have multiple phases/instances though? Sure it's all one megaserver but outside of Cyrodiil it was my understanding that if a zone is populated enough it starts more instances for players.

    Also there was never really an issue at launch with spawn times of monsters and that had thousands of people all in the same zones. The only time it was really an issue is when areas had buggy or low timers which ZOS went back and changed.

    I definitely remember an issue at PC launch with the spawn times of monsters. Delve bosses went down a couple of seconds after they spawned (even before the bots invaded) and it was a case of trying to get enough of a hit in to be credited for it. I remember posting about it on these boards at the time (Triple Circle Mine I think).

    The concern is realistic.
  • ArchMikem
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    If you increase respawn frequency then that just breeds farming. I was doing a sidequest in Grahtwood tonight and had to distract a bear while my npc did her magic on it. There were these vet16s just standing there killing the bear over and over. I couldnt progress until they moved on.

    I dont want that to become widespread.
    CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
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  • Saturn
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    dpencil wrote: »
    Kai mentioned in the German forum that if a zone gets really full it automatically creates a new instance, so it won't necessarily mean all the zones will be overcrowded. They will probably be more populated, but the devs have control over how many concurrent players can be in a zone at one time before creating further instances of it.

    This is already happening with major populated cities, so yeah there's no doubt they have it under control.
    "Madness is a bitter mercy, perhaps, but a mercy nonetheless."

    Fire and Ice
  • Transairion
    Transairion
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    OP, just a bit of history on the server tech used in ESO.

    If lots of players are in one area, the game creates a new instance of that area. It's really not a problem here to have everyone be able to access all the same zones at any point in time. Not everyone will be in the same instance, even if they're in the same zone.
    Rev Rielle wrote: »
    At first glimpse one might think: Three times the players, but three times the area available also.
    However, the area available will be much much more than just three times:

    At the moment when leveling 1-50: You have ~4 zones.
    After One Tamriel is released: You'll have ~22 possible zones.

    Leveling post 50: Currently you have roughly ~5 zones available.
    Post One Tamriel release: You will have ~22 zones.


    Sure some hubs will inevitably become more populated, but there are already mechanism in place for that; phasing.

    I don't see it being a problem.


    You misunderstand: I don't mean "everyone and their mother will go to one area and it'll be a living hell", I'm talking about what exists right now within ESO being made a whole lot worse.

    Starting zones right now are a mess of dead mobs, downed dolems and empty WB spawn areas. This is using the current "if there's too many, new zone" instance system. There's no reason to think all zones becoming this way won't happen with One Tamriel, which may just mean the threshold required to make a new instance is too high right now. I mean, this system already exists and has problems. This isn't hypothetical. Starting zones have had some of the worst quest experiences I've ever had because there's just too many people and too many mobs killed.

    People aren't just going to up and go quest in, say, Rawl'ka when they want to do the Rift like I think you're suggesting. I think a lot of people will still want to quest in some sort of order, than just picking up quests across 10 different zones willy nilly.



    Personally my view is the "instance" system at present doesn't work well enough, not if the starter zones are such a mess as they are. I don't want to see every single zone I try to quest in full of dead mobs, dolems that don't activate and empty WB spawn points...
    Edited by Transairion on June 14, 2016 12:07PM
  • ContraTempo
    ContraTempo
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    ContraTempo
    Carpe DM
    Seize the Dungeon Master


  • Transairion
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    What word would you use to describe every zone becoming like the starter zones are now?

    Every delve, WB and dolem being empty or inactive because they were recently cleared doesn't sound like any fun to me, to be honest. It's not fun now, why would it be later?
  • Turelus
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    Iluvrien wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Doesn't the game have multiple phases/instances though? Sure it's all one megaserver but outside of Cyrodiil it was my understanding that if a zone is populated enough it starts more instances for players.

    Also there was never really an issue at launch with spawn times of monsters and that had thousands of people all in the same zones. The only time it was really an issue is when areas had buggy or low timers which ZOS went back and changed.

    I definitely remember an issue at PC launch with the spawn times of monsters. Delve bosses went down a couple of seconds after they spawned (even before the bots invaded) and it was a case of trying to get enough of a hit in to be credited for it. I remember posting about it on these boards at the time (Triple Circle Mine I think).

    The concern is realistic.

    These issues can be adjusted and fixed though if they come up. It's nothing something which will stay forever doomed.
    susmitds wrote: »
    Atarax wrote: »
    OP, just a bit of history on the server tech used in ESO.

    If lots of players are in one area, the game creates a new instance of that area. It's really not a problem here to have everyone be able to access all the same zones at any point in time. Not everyone will be in the same instance, even if they're in the same zone.

    Even then thieving and farming would be a nightmare. Suppose in craglorn, there would like 3x more farmers but it wont really fill the instance yet increase competition by 200%. Or say thieving, which is going to be extremely annoying without the empty Cadwell zones.

    So basically all the zones would be working with the populations they were intended for. The zones are not mean to be private farming locations for five or six people and it would actually be refreshing to see others when running around anything not the latest DLC.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Defilted
    Defilted
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    Bump on respawn timers

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  • ItsGlaive
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Doesn't the game have multiple phases/instances though? Sure it's all one megaserver but outside of Cyrodiil it was my understanding that if a zone is populated enough it starts more instances for players.

    This is exactly how it is currently and I'd expect exactly how it'll be come the launch of 'One Tamriel'. Sure we may no longer be divided by alliance anymore, but there will still be multiple phases or instances of each zone going at any given time.
    Allow cross-platform transfers and merges
  • Lysette
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    I just wonder how strange you folks think sometimes - there will not be 3 times more players around - the number of players does not change at all - they just have access to a larger area.
  • mtwiggz
    mtwiggz
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    One Tamriel: The End of Grindspots
  • Callous2208
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    If the hang up is that the starter zones will be crowded, isn't that logic flawed? Aren't there now 3 times the starters zones available to everyone since you can go anywhere? Or even better, can't any area besides Cold Harbor be considered a starting zone now due to battle leveling? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm honestly asking as that's how I interpreted the changes.
  • Rex-Umbra
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    There will be multiple instances of zones though. It happens even now with your party members being in different instances and needing to travel to player even though your beside each other on the map.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
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  • FireCowCommando
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    As others pointed out, there is a max cap for population per instance of a zone, in this case the number is 168.

    The biggest motivation for them to change the game this way is to make it feel more populated. Lots of zones that feel empty today you will find more players in, such as Malabal Tor.
  • Elhanan
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    New DLC zones will be disproportionately affected, going from 3 zones to 1.
  • Lysette
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    It is more freedom - I can harvest anywhere, not just where the stuff is normally to be found. I can go and explore wherever I want and it will basically be nearly everywhere the same experience combat-wise - not too easy, not too challenging. This will help me to get a feeling for my build and shape it to something what I am more comfortable with. Attribute points will now not make me significantly more viable each level, but instead shape the relation of the attributes to each other. This is different to how it was in it's effect. But it is still progression, this is not going away with it, it is just different.
    Edited by Lysette on June 14, 2016 2:31PM
  • AlnilamE
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    World bosses and dolmens respawn on a regular basis. If you actually need a specific dolmen or world boss for the achievement, you can hang around for the 7-10 minutes it takes them to respawn. It's really not a big deal.
    The Moot Councillor
  • Lysette
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    Elhanan wrote: »
    New DLC zones will be disproportionately affected, going from 3 zones to 1.

    It does not matter, due to the phasing system - the server will just open more phases.
  • Elhanan
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    Lysette wrote: »
    Elhanan wrote: »
    New DLC zones will be disproportionately affected, going from 3 zones to 1.

    It does not matter, due to the phasing system - the server will just open more phases.

    Perhaps it will, but that didn't seem to help Abah's Landing when TG released. It was almost unplayable.
  • Victus
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    Yeah I don't understand how this is an issue... if starting zones are already crowded, battle levelling zones mean it will still be crowded if people mix it up and change starting zones.

    It has the potential to alleviate overcrowding with many players opting to go level somewhere else other than a starting zone once this drops. I don't see how all zones will suddenly be crowded. Existing players will just spread out.
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  • Transairion
    Transairion
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    World bosses and dolmens respawn on a regular basis. If you actually need a specific dolmen or world boss for the achievement, you can hang around for the 7-10 minutes it takes them to respawn. It's really not a big deal./quote]

    Yeah, no that doesn't really work when you realize certain quest need certain mobs alive to be completed at all. If I'm on a solo quest, IE loot 3 RNG item from mobs in this area, and they're all dead because it's a public area I'm not going to be happy to just sit on my ass waiting for respawns so I can advance.

    Waiting for respawns is horrendous.

    I don't see how all zones will suddenly be crowded. Existing players will just spread out.

    You're still thinking of it working like it does now, with each zone have 3 versions (1 per faction).

    Come One Tamriel, all factions will have the same zone: Rawl'ka for example will not only have all the level ~45 AD players, it'll have the Cadwell's Silver players AND the Cadwell's Gold players added into it as well. Every zone with have every player who's in that zone questing, regardless if they're level 10 or CP510, thrown into the same spot and only separated by new instances spawning.

    Make sense? You can spread out, yes, but if you want to quest in Grahtwood at level 20 you're going to have to deal with Silver and Gold players also around, which doesn't exist now. If they just happen to be grinding CP where you need to quest, well too bad I guess... So the actual starting zones, I imagine, will be brutally populated. The only location I can see not being very populated is Craglorn, just because there's not a lot of reason to go there after doing the questline once.
    Edited by Transairion on June 15, 2016 5:18AM
  • ContraTempo
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    World bosses and dolmens respawn on a regular basis. If you actually need a specific dolmen or world boss for the achievement, you can hang around for the 7-10 minutes it takes them to respawn. It's really not a big deal./quote]

    Yeah, no that doesn't really work when you realize certain quest need certain mobs alive to be completed at all. If I'm on a solo quest, IE loot 3 RNG item from mobs in this area, and they're all dead because it's a public area I'm not going to be happy to just sit on my ass waiting for respawns so I can advance.

    Waiting for respawns is horrendous.

    I don't see how all zones will suddenly be crowded. Existing players will just spread out.

    You're still thinking of it working like it does now, with each zone have 3 versions (1 per faction).

    Come One Tamriel, all factions will have the same zone: Rawl'ka for example will not only have all the level ~45 AD players, it'll have the Cadwell's Silver players AND the Cadwell's Gold players added into it as well. Every zone with have every player who's in that zone questing, regardless if they're level 10 or CP510, thrown into the same spot and only separated by new instances spawning.

    Make sense? You can spread out, yes, but if you want to quest in Grahtwood at level 20 you're going to have to deal with Silver and Gold players also around, which doesn't exist now. If they just happen to be grinding CP where you need to quest, well too bad I guess... So the actual starting zones, I imagine, will be brutally populated. The only location I can see not being very populated is Craglorn, just because there's not a lot of reason to go there after doing the questline once.

    This was one of my concerns too, until I realized they were already doing phasing. They must be because otherwise our starting zones would have like a million people (literally a million) running around. It would be wall to wall people. The only part they are changing is the mix of people in each phase. In One Tamriel instead of all being from one faction, they will be mixed. Perhaps if you find your quest occupied by a grinder you can just log off, then log on to get a different phase. Or travel to a friend in the area to get into the same phase as them.
    ContraTempo
    Carpe DM
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