Vigarr wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's basically just skyshards and champion points now so why have levels anymore? .

Champion points are the level now and you grow slightly stronger with each one earned...how is this not a leveling system?

It may not be a traditional system or an ideal one but you can still progress as you play (unless you're one of those nutjobs that have grinded to the top after a few days of playing).

You mean besides how some PvP Campaigns ignore CPs thus rendering them useless there and also have no effect on stat and skill growth beyond a few figures?

it's true that level is less meaningful, but still "In general, higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points"

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

What annoys me about your concern, is that you claim an MMORPG 'has' to have a set formula. I say "Why?". Breaking down barriers and promoting freedom of choice seems a far more logical decision IMO. Especially when there are still tons of avenues of progression left. Only this way players will no longer feel deterred from a linear and forced means of play-style.

Players can do whatever it is that they enjoy most while still progressing and learning wherever they choose to go. It won't even change much of the formula, it simply removes any restrictions on where a player can explore. Levels in tamriel only serve to restrict area's where players can explore, yet they still give that exact same sense of achievement and advancement in this new system.

So I will ask you, What is the point in restricting area's of Tamriel to players? And remember, all the area's are basically the same gameplay now anyway, just with different skins and stories.

How can I claim it has to have a set formula when there isn't one? I just find MMOs more enjoyable when you actually have something to achieve that makes you feel accomplished. This game... It is losing that, and fast. In case I have not said it here yet I will say it now: I have nothing against the freedom aspect, just the battle-leveling every single zone in the game...

You mention that "this is supposed to be an MMORPG", like that should mean it can't be any-way original. And in the OP mention that "a good levelling system is an important part of this genre". Now I understand that is what you are accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that the current system is important. It really isn't, and I think you are just finding it hard to understand that.

I mean, let's take Call of Duty (the example fits I swear). Now players in that game will actually give up all they have unlocked for a new badge. As that is actually what is important to them, the chance to show that they have a certain level of experience (and I mean exp in the literal sense and the "farmed" sense) playing the game.

On to your concern, and staying with COD. One could argue that all those prestiged players are still battle-levelled as everyone still does the same damage and take the same amount of hits yet they are lacking many perks and and tools that those other players still have. But the funny thing is, in the end, it doesn't matter, because it never really mattered, the real life experience playing the game and applying what you have learned will always be what truly sets you apart from others. Your actual ability in the game is what actually matters. Yet people still want that badge or number to show other players their experience.

So you see, battle-levelling all the zones changes nothing. I mean, I still meet players struggling in delves in wrothgar whilst farming trinimac. Let's let them struggle anywhere they want.

And finally, this game still has tons of carats... I mean, achievements to earn and accomplish, in the form of titles, weapons, gear, hats, shoes, sticks, trophies, skills, items, quests, Damn, I could go on but you get my drift. Just let go of the pointless numbers man. They are just numbers.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You mention that "this is supposed to be an MMORPG", like that should mean it can't be any-way original. And in the OP mention that "a good levelling system is an important part of this genre". Now I understand that is what you are accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that the current system is important. It really isn't, and I think you are just finding it hard to understand that.

I mean, let's take Call of Duty (the example fits I swear). Now players in that game will actually give up all they have unlocked for a new badge. As that is actually what is important to them, the chance to show that they have a certain level of experience (and I mean exp in the literal sense and the "farmed" sense) playing the game.

On to your concern, and staying with COD. One could argue that all those prestiged players are still battle-levelled as everyone still does the same damage and take the same amount of hits yet they are lacking many perks and and tools that those other players still have. But the funny thing is, in the end, it doesn't matter, because it never really mattered, the real life experience playing the game and applying what you have learned will always be what truly sets you apart from others. Your actual ability in the game is what actually matters. Yet people still want that badge or number to show other players their experience.

So you see, battle-levelling all the zones changes nothing. I mean, I still meet players struggling in delves in wrothgar whilst farming trinimac. Let's let them struggle anywhere they want.

And finally, this game still has tons of carats... I mean, achievements to earn and accomplish, in the form of titles, weapons, gear, hats, shoes, sticks, trophies, skills, items, quests, Damn, I could go on but you get my drift. Just let go of the pointless numbers man. They are just numbers.

Saying ESO compares to COD is probably THE worst way to put things... I would personally never go that far.

DDuke wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You mention that "this is supposed to be an MMORPG", like that should mean it can't be any-way original. And in the OP mention that "a good levelling system is an important part of this genre". Now I understand that is what you are accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that the current system is important. It really isn't, and I think you are just finding it hard to understand that.

I mean, let's take Call of Duty (the example fits I swear). Now players in that game will actually give up all they have unlocked for a new badge. As that is actually what is important to them, the chance to show that they have a certain level of experience (and I mean exp in the literal sense and the "farmed" sense) playing the game.

On to your concern, and staying with COD. One could argue that all those prestiged players are still battle-levelled as everyone still does the same damage and take the same amount of hits yet they are lacking many perks and and tools that those other players still have. But the funny thing is, in the end, it doesn't matter, because it never really mattered, the real life experience playing the game and applying what you have learned will always be what truly sets you apart from others. Your actual ability in the game is what actually matters. Yet people still want that badge or number to show other players their experience.

So you see, battle-levelling all the zones changes nothing. I mean, I still meet players struggling in delves in wrothgar whilst farming trinimac. Let's let them struggle anywhere they want.

And finally, this game still has tons of carats... I mean, achievements to earn and accomplish, in the form of titles, weapons, gear, hats, shoes, sticks, trophies, skills, items, quests, Damn, I could go on but you get my drift. Just let go of the pointless numbers man. They are just numbers.

I think Call of Duty is the last thing you want to compare ESO to - but sadly I agree the game is going towards that direction. Away from RPG & towards the Action genre - just like Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim.

The reason I play MMORPGs and not those Action/FPS games is because I very much enjoy my character progression, and I imagine quite a few other people share this mindset - hence the disgust towards this dumbing down by ZOS.

No one (ok, maybe 2-3 people) wants a Skyrim Online and no one wants a Call of Scrolls.

I personally go for medieval fantasy MMORPGs and avoid the rest. Imagine if Skyrim HD gets a multiplayer mode of some sort though...

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

This makes ESO more like all the other Scrolls games and more realistic... I don't see how anyone could be against this.

Edit: Plus this could actually re-ignite Justice System Phase 2... Not saying I heard any rumors of this, just saying it could become way more feasible now.

heheh... so alliance could open the possibility of some sort of open world PVP @nimander99 ? The possibilities!

I'm not a huge fan of pvp, as I'm pretty sure you know Gid, but an opt in/out system and everyone (not just 1/3) in the same phase could make for some interesting pvp options... If ZoS ever reconsidered Phase 2.

Honestly, @nimander99 I still think a small scale arena/coliseum system would be best.

It would be even better now. They could have faction leaderboards to create a sense of faction pride.

DDuke wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Vox wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

One of the most important aspects of an MMORPG is a good leveling system.

I could argue that one of the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game is freedom to explore wherever you want to, which is what this change is going to give the player.

Then they could treat the Silver and Gold areas like the "Bronze" instead of battle-leveling everything. Elder Scrolls or not this is still supposed to be an MMORPG.

What an "MMO" should be means nothing to me. Make the game entertaining. If I enjoy it, I enjoy it. ESO is competing with single player games as much as it competes with MMOs. Why should a player decide to buy ESO instead of The Witcher? One justification is being able to play coop with your friends. One Tamriel will make it easier to do that.

Uhm... because they are two completely different gaming experiences?

I enjoy MMOs & RPGs both due to character progression. I like gathering stats, making my in game avatar able to complete tougher & tougher challenges.
I like comparing that character to other players characters & competing with and against them.

Can you do any of that in a single player game? Well, character progression to a lesser extent, yes. But apart from that those are all reasons to purchase a MMO instead.

Nothing says you can only play one game though.

They are not completely different gaming experiences. They are both RPGs. They are very similar.

Sure, there is no server storing your stats in The Witcher, but that is not a difference in gameplay. Have you played The Witcher? Monsters don't scale. You have to "gather stats" so that the main character can complete tougher and tougher challenges. Both games are RPGs and compete for similar players -- like me. I play ESO because it is an RPG and because it is Elder Scrolls. I have zero interest in MMOs in general unless unless someone tells me it has a good RPG experience. I've heard that SWTOR has a good story and have considered playing through that.

You might be confusing how YOU play ESO with how ESO can be played. It can be played just like many other single player RPGs, and the majority of players likely play it that way. You mention competing -- well, many of us have been playing from launch with zero interest in "competing". Yes, there are people who come to ESO for the competition, just like other MMOs, Battlefield, Quake, DOTA, COD, etc. But ZOS isn't just marketing to those people. Look at the DLCs. One was PvP and one had a trial. That means only 2 of 4 DLC had anything that could be considered competitive. If we look at the gameplay numbers, we will probably see a lot of people like me who play through the DLC quests but haven't done a trial yet.

Similarly, the majority of people who bought ESO bought it because they like Elder Scrolls and they like RPGs. They may or may not have had an interest in MMOs. Of my 4 friends IRL who bought ESO, only 1 was an MMO player previously and all were motivated by their love of TES. On the other hand, my first guild at launch was actually full of Planetside 2 players. 4 months after launch, the guild had basically left the game to return to other tactical combat oriented games. I'm the only person left from that guild and I'm here to play an Elder Scrolls RPG.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You mention that "this is supposed to be an MMORPG", like that should mean it can't be any-way original. And in the OP mention that "a good levelling system is an important part of this genre". Now I understand that is what you are accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that the current system is important. It really isn't, and I think you are just finding it hard to understand that.

I mean, let's take Call of Duty (the example fits I swear). Now players in that game will actually give up all they have unlocked for a new badge. As that is actually what is important to them, the chance to show that they have a certain level of experience (and I mean exp in the literal sense and the "farmed" sense) playing the game.

On to your concern, and staying with COD. One could argue that all those prestiged players are still battle-levelled as everyone still does the same damage and take the same amount of hits yet they are lacking many perks and and tools that those other players still have. But the funny thing is, in the end, it doesn't matter, because it never really mattered, the real life experience playing the game and applying what you have learned will always be what truly sets you apart from others. Your actual ability in the game is what actually matters. Yet people still want that badge or number to show other players their experience.

So you see, battle-levelling all the zones changes nothing. I mean, I still meet players struggling in delves in wrothgar whilst farming trinimac. Let's let them struggle anywhere they want.

And finally, this game still has tons of carats... I mean, achievements to earn and accomplish, in the form of titles, weapons, gear, hats, shoes, sticks, trophies, skills, items, quests, Damn, I could go on but you get my drift. Just let go of the pointless numbers man. They are just numbers.

Saying ESO compares to COD is probably THE worst way to put things... I would personally never go that far.

DDuke wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You mention that "this is supposed to be an MMORPG", like that should mean it can't be any-way original. And in the OP mention that "a good levelling system is an important part of this genre". Now I understand that is what you are accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that the current system is important. It really isn't, and I think you are just finding it hard to understand that.

I mean, let's take Call of Duty (the example fits I swear). Now players in that game will actually give up all they have unlocked for a new badge. As that is actually what is important to them, the chance to show that they have a certain level of experience (and I mean exp in the literal sense and the "farmed" sense) playing the game.

On to your concern, and staying with COD. One could argue that all those prestiged players are still battle-levelled as everyone still does the same damage and take the same amount of hits yet they are lacking many perks and and tools that those other players still have. But the funny thing is, in the end, it doesn't matter, because it never really mattered, the real life experience playing the game and applying what you have learned will always be what truly sets you apart from others. Your actual ability in the game is what actually matters. Yet people still want that badge or number to show other players their experience.

So you see, battle-levelling all the zones changes nothing. I mean, I still meet players struggling in delves in wrothgar whilst farming trinimac. Let's let them struggle anywhere they want.

And finally, this game still has tons of carats... I mean, achievements to earn and accomplish, in the form of titles, weapons, gear, hats, shoes, sticks, trophies, skills, items, quests, Damn, I could go on but you get my drift. Just let go of the pointless numbers man. They are just numbers.

I think Call of Duty is the last thing you want to compare ESO to - but sadly I agree the game is going towards that direction. Away from RPG & towards the Action genre - just like Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim.

The reason I play MMORPGs and not those Action/FPS games is because I very much enjoy my character progression, and I imagine quite a few other people share this mindset - hence the disgust towards this dumbing down by ZOS.

No one (ok, maybe 2-3 people) wants a Skyrim Online and no one wants a Call of Scrolls.

Good job on even trying to gain a simple level of perspective guys. My references are to how the numbers beside your name are perceived by people in general. Not once do I actually compare gameplay. And you still fail to even attempt a comprehension of the fact that the numbers here in ESO are only barriers and never actually effect negatively on someone's sense of progression. Except for you guys I guess. But can you tell me why?
Why does unlocking access to areas give a needed sense of progression?

As long as they don't touch PvP (One Cyrodiil) I don't care what they do with PvE.

The amusing part about the people putting TES3: Morrowind forward as argument and it not being leveled.

You are dead wrong.

Have you ever taken a look in the CS at.. wait for it...

LEVELED LISTS ?

Surprise, they contain encounters of creatures. I still remember how I went through all of that to set the AI of all cliffracers in the entire game to brain dead.

And you can't tell me you never noticed that when you go at level 3 to a daedric ruin, that there are 90% only scamps and maybe one lone flame atronach. Go there at level 18 and it's suddenly a lot more varied with maybe 1 scamp, a lot of dremora, maybe an Ogrim/Ogrim Titan and if you're really lucky, you get to kiss a winged twilights wing around the next corner and get to gawk at a "Load Quicksave?" popup.

Oh and guess why golden saints are so rare. They spawn if you are level 20+ and depending on said leveled list, they might even wield a daedric weapon in which case I suggest being very careful because your 120 armor rating are nothing to them.

Now science aside, If people could pack all the salt up they poured into this thread and grasp a logical thought for a moment...

In SWTOR, there was recently a similar way of scaling introduced to the whole game. What did that change? You can't solo 80% of the world bosses in that game anymore for that particular cool looking item you want to have. No you now need a group for that. And that's just one example.

Do you really believe ZOS is making it absolutely dense and just levels everything to I-don't-care dimensions?

Let's be real here, folks, they might not be on the quick foot with fixing things, but holy ***, if they do not TRY to make this game good.

Pack all the bitching and speculating up, keep it for later when One Tamriel is an actual thing and there's an actual reason to moan.

So far, there's none. Now unknit those pants of yours and have fun in the game.