Guards are too Overpowered. More then ever

Harvall · June 2016

I mean, come on... guards since the last updates (Thieves guild i believe) are too Overpowered. They always were but its just a sick joke now. The fact that they always been immortal is kinda wrong. They have CC abilities thats one, Light CC (Dark Talons), Heavy CC (Petrify), Moving CC (Fiery grip) and they hit HARD, but NOW ? they have some sort of revealing flare bomb and my CC immunity skills don't protect me at all against the Guards CC. I Fired "Immovable Brute" skill from heavy armor skill line. The guard petrified me and right away chained me back. During CC Immunity Time ! If i happen to fall of a building in attempt to loose heat (NPC's cannot jump off of buildings) he (listen to this) chained me UPWARDS back to him. i was in the fricking AIR, havent even landed yet. Another thing is, that if you die, from source not related to guards or law anyways, you *** is being taken anyways, and bounty cash too. On the top of this, if a guard finds you inside a building you are Screwed my friend. You cant escape outside while the combat is going on. Only chance to get away is to find a place where the guard does not patrol and do not see so you could wait for bounty to drop. The only way left was to drink invisibility potions but now that they have revealing flares its almost
imposibble to escape. Unles you are lucky and manage to somehow get past guards chase range and not to get past other guard, and not die from fall damage

Lynx7386 · June 2016

Yep, makes me wonder how molag bal ever even posed a threat to nirn, they should've just sicked the town guards on coldharbour

Nestor · June 2016

Hmm, I escaped from a Guard just last night, in Skywatch. I got caught because I was trying to talk to a Merchant and accidentally activated some item hanging behind him so this was not planned. I had two Purples, and a few Blues and a slew of Greens on me, so I chose to Flee. I had 5 of them chasing me, rooting me, chaining me and doing just about everything but sitting on me, and I got away just fine. Even after I ran by some other guards and got them involved in the chase. Anyway, I got out of town and was safe again.

I did not do any tricks, just broke free from all the roots and ran, not sprinted, to a safe area.

Anyway, Guards are not a problem, just don't get caught. If you do get caught, and can't escape because your indoors, pay the fine. It's only expensive if you try to flee. If your concerned about losing loot, then don't steal in a high risk area without fencing on a regular basis. Stealing inside a Bank or Castle or Mansion with a lot of loot on hand is just poor planning.

Ffastyl · June 2016

The only valid concern I see is bounty payment being taken for any death as opposed to death by guard. The rest is acceptable balancing to overcome the intelligence gap between player and AI. Successful criminal activity is about not getting caught. If the guards are after you, something has gone wrong.

Remember the person with a 4 million bounty who complained about the bounty decay, accruement, and guard presence? It was trying to change the system to remove his mistakes. A 4 million bounty is something most people have to try for. There are and have to be punishments for breaking the law. Or, more precisely, getting caught breaking the law.

Also, line breaks. This is technically a paragraph but internet culture is generally used to three sentence paragraphs, so you'll get more readers by breaking it up as such.

Harvall · June 2016

No, There ALWAYS should be a way to get away, but when you are inside you are screwed. If you have a lot of stam, maybe you can CC-Break from those, but if they chain you back, its no use, you are being attacked and did not move at all. You can t ccbreak from chain.

DaveMoeDee · June 2016

I like them being more powerful. Makes you have to be more careful when stealing.

Unless you are an NB. Then you just disappear. Man, TG and DB are so much simpler with a NB.

Nestor · June 2016

Harvall wrote: »

No, There ALWAYS should be a way to get away, but when you are inside you are screwed. If you have a lot of stam, maybe you can CC-Break from those, but if they chain you back, its no use, you are being attacked and did not move at all. You can t ccbreak from chain.

There is nothing wrong with the Guards, there is something wrong with where your stealing and what your not willing to give up to pay the fine.

As I said, if your going to steal inside, don't be carrying a lot of Loot and the pay the fine. It's less than 200 Gold in most cases. Unless you want no consequences for your actions in the game when you steal or murder and get caught.

And, there are Passives in the TG Skill line that basically make the Guards neutered anyway, at least once a day. You can tell them to go away when you first talk to them, and they will leave you alone. You also have Pardons you can pick up and use to remove the Bounty. You can use an Invisibility Potion to get away. There are ways to deal with the Guards if you ever really need to deal with them.

Or, you can play the game so the guards are not a factor, just be careful.

Harvall · June 2016

I said invisibility potion is not an option. They use this Revealing flare stuff from TG immediately after you go inviisible and they break the effect instantly. This is AoE so you dont have even time to move from the place where you dissapeared

holosoul · June 2016

Harvall wrote: »

They use this Revealing flare

#rekt
Just be glad they don't have magelight

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

I'm escaping from guards left and right. PvP skills really come in handy when fighting these guys. My suggestion is utilize your escapes, line of sight, and terrain (walls, water, etc). Don't fight them, treat them like programs and you're in the Matrix. Follow Morpheus' advice, and RUN!

susmitds · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Hmm, I escaped from a Guard just last night, in Skywatch. I got caught because I was trying to talk to a Merchant and accidentally activated some item hanging behind him so this was not planned. I had two Purples, and a few Blues and a slew of Greens on me, so I chose to Flee. I had 5 of them chasing me, rooting me, chaining me and doing just about everything but sitting on me, and I got away just fine. Even after I ran by some other guards and got them involved in the chase. Anyway, I got out of town and was safe again.

I did not do any tricks, just broke free from all the roots and ran, not sprinted, to a safe area.

Anyway, Guards are not a problem, just don't get caught. If you do get caught, and can't escape because your indoors, pay the fine. It's only expensive if you try to flee. If your concerned about losing loot, then don't steal in a high risk area without fencing on a regular basis. Stealing inside a Bank or Castle or Mansion with a lot of loot on hand is just poor planning.

@Nestor For stamina builds, guards are not much of an issue but for the magicka who lack the stamina to dodge/break free much, they are a lot harder to escape from.

Traveller · June 2016

You may have other players trying to collect a bounty on you soon

STEVIL · June 2016

Last night in orsinium accidentally clucked light attack and shot guard.
No bargain, no planned escape whole city betwern me and exit.
Did not work out well.

But usually its easy to avoid or escape when planned?

Meanwhile threads over in general again on how impotent justice system is without pvp enforcement on pve players...

Sigh.

I see judtice and guards as the brakes on thievery rate of converting time into gold. Like mobs for advance thru grind, just minor speedbump.

Nestor · June 2016

susmitds wrote: »

@Nestor For stamina builds, guards are not much of an issue but for the magicka who lack the stamina to dodge/break free much, they are a lot harder to escape from.

Harder but not impossible. It was my Caster that broke free and escaped, and this character has no Stamina buffs or attributes or gear.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

OP, if you're a magicka toon and vampire use mist form. Their CC doesn't work and I think one of the morphs even gives a speed boost.

If you are stamina, immediately dodge roll (helps to have a bow) and turn to face the guard while running away. If it stops while chasing you, it is about to hit you with fossilize or chains. Block that. rinse repeat till you're out.

Guards being unkillable is one of the most immersion breaking, dissapointing, and mechanically inept things about the justice system to me. So much so that I don't steal often. I guess you could say the guards are doing their job though

xilfxlegion · June 2016

ive escaped guards, and been killed by guards. improve your stealing and it is a non issue.

i keep seeing posts about the guards ---- my question is this --- if you know they will kill you, why keep pissing them off?

ADarklore · June 2016

I've always wondered why I kept seeing players die from guards... until I realized that nobody really seems to comprehend how to get away. If you're inside a building and planning to do any major thievery, make sure there is a staircase and balcony... if guards assault you, run up the stairs and jump over balcony, then head for front door... I've used this numerous times to get away.

Outside, look for any water or embankments, etc... that you can jump over, down off of, as guards cannot follow the same path and definitely won't follow into water.

I also haven't found the guards to hit very hard at all, surprising considering the number of dead players I've seen. Whenever they hit me, I just use break-free and run... dodge... run... break-free... all the while looking for the above mentioned means of escape- water, embankment, etc. I have yet to be killed by a guard, and I don't even PvP to know what "PvP skills really come in handy when fighting these guys" means. LoL! And you never want to be 'fighting' the guards... you cannot win so don't even try; escape is the ONLY viable solution.

Birdovic · June 2016

Missing Patch Notes found!

"Bringing The TESO: Unlimited Guards in line with TES 3: Morrowind Guards Is an ongoing Effort and we are working hard to achieve this.
We Heard your Feedback and will Continue to improve Guards until they can fight Dagoth Ur."

danno8 · June 2016

I would have said the opposite was true. Guards use to be pretty tough, but after more than a year they seem completely inept. I haven't died to one in many months.

Advice for any magicka build:

Mist Form if you are Vampire
Purifying Ritual (Templar), or Purge (Alliance War) for everyone else.

Guards are unable to enter water.
Take sharp corners around buildings and stuff.

Also, not sure if it's new, but the guards say the funniest things. Example:
Guard: "OK, you've shown us all what a great criminal you can be. Now you have the chance to show us that you can be a great upstanding citizen also! Your bounty and stolen items please?" *in a trembling voice*

*choose to flee*

Guard: "But this was going so well!"

Nestor · June 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

I also haven't found the guards to hit very hard at all, surprising considering the number of dead players I've seen.

Their initial hits are not that bad. Its the Execute that kills you. After 4 to 6 hits, then comes the execute that takes all your health.

holosoul · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I also haven't found the guards to hit very hard at all, surprising considering the number of dead players I've seen.

Their initial hits are not that bad. Its the Execute that kills you. After 4 to 6 hits, then comes the execute that takes all your health.

Which is not new and has existed since before IC (the execute, chains, petrify, roots) except for revealing flare, which to be fair I simply could have not noticed because I only play sorc.
I haven't seen any "new" abilities from the guards, perhaps OP simply never noticed them before?

Pigment · June 2016

I can get them down to 0 pretty easy, but they just don't die. I have a potion I use that's Immovability/Invisibility that work wonders

Harvall · June 2016

So potion of Immovability works but skill for Immovability doesnt ? i see a serious bug here....

Besides, i see you ppl kinda went astray from the topic. I dont, need to hear from you how to handle guards, I can handle them too most of the times. I started conversation to figure out if community also thinks they are a bit OP at this point with the revealing flare stuff and all.

But i will say what would satisfy me.
- Fixing immovability of course, I have immovability skill on and they still claw/chain me
- We shoould be able to use doors while in combat. This is simply stupid that we can't
- Killable guards. Good penalty should be applied of course, but immortal guards break immersion, and as said before, make inside thievery a thorn in the butt

ShedsHisTail · June 2016

Yeah, I run from guards all the time. (Like to pick their pockets)
Think I can count on one hand how many times they've actually killed me.

GNLDeathwing557 · May 2017

I agree with this gaurds are a sick joke. If you take any Elder Scrolls Game. Prior to Eso Gaurds were at least killable it would give you a increased bounty but they were killable. Eso what makes the gaurds a lackluster and detriment to the gameplay is. There being Immortal what this means is since gaurds are unkillable if a player fights back after attempting to flee. They will simply hit you hard to the point where your three shotted lose all stolen items and lose gold to pay the bounty. Secondly there cc is Absurd from being chained to petrified Ect. If a guard is going to be able to use CC repetively then a trade off needs to be made. Eathier a Make them Mortal and Killable with the ability to use cc to make the fight somewhat a challenge. Lower there Damage just enough to make the fight a challenge. Or keep them Immortal and reduce there useage of CC. No Elder Scrolls game prior to eso had gaurds like eso does.

Betsararie · May 2017

Just run away and get on your mount. Usually works for me

ADarklore · May 2017

GNLDeathwing557 wrote: »

I agree with this gaurds are a sick joke. If you take any Elder Scrolls Game. Prior to Eso Gaurds were at least killable it would give you a increased bounty but they were killable. Eso what makes the gaurds a lackluster and detriment to the gameplay is. There being Immortal what this means is since gaurds are unkillable if a player fights back after attempting to flee. They will simply hit you hard to the point where your three shotted lose all stolen items and lose gold to pay the bounty. Secondly there cc is Absurd from being chained to petrified Ect. If a guard is going to be able to use CC repetively then a trade off needs to be made. Eathier a Make them Mortal and Killable with the ability to use cc to make the fight somewhat a challenge. Lower there Damage just enough to make the fight a challenge. Or keep them Immortal and reduce there useage of CC. No Elder Scrolls game prior to eso had gaurds like eso does.

There is a difference... MMO versus SINGLE PLAYER GAME. The devs have already said they do not want to ESO to become a graveyard, it's close enough thanks to Dark Brotherhood and the Blade of Woe, but they do not want guards being killed and then everyone runs rampant doing what they want until guards respawn. In a single player game, you don't have the 'massively multi-player' aspect to account for.