[BUG] Purge / Purify ..

Flake · June 2016

Not sure what's going on or if it's server lag, but it seems purge (and any morphs) plus purify are not cleansing negative effects efficiently. In some cases, works like it should, in others (normally with server lag) it takes a lot of casts to remove a single negative effect.

Without a video its hard to show, but anyone else experience this since the release of DB?

God_flakes · June 2016

Add it to the long list of things that were working fine that they broke with this update.

Zheg · June 2016

I've suspected since the purge nerf that the mechanics are not 'smart'. When it hit 20, you never really noticed, but now that it hits 6, I suspect that if you have 10 people in group and all of you get hit by a meatbag, you can hit purge twice and it will try to purge people that it's already purged, so in theory you may have people with debuffs in your group of 10 that never got cleansed. The priority for which debuffs are purged is also a complete mystery, are you purging the cold fire ballista dot, the heal debuff, or the 30% snare? Templars want heal debuffs off them, but DKs probably want some other debuff prioritized.

They need to buff purge in some way because it's expensive as F compared to how easy it is to put debuffs on you, it doesn't seem to work 'smart', and siege is too prolific and powerful for it to not be functioning well. With the increased costs in this patch it just makes purge that much less efficient (pun

). Here's the unfortunate thing though, right now templars are the best equipped to deal with this because they can put down extended ritual and cleanse 5 effects, but if you make purge more powerful (which is necessary imo), you reduce the last remaining hallmark of the templar class.

Ashanne · June 2016

Flake wrote: »

Not sure what's going on or if it's server lag, but it seems purge (and any morphs) plus purify are not cleansing negative effects efficiently. In some cases, works like it should, in others (normally with server lag) it takes a lot of casts to remove a single negative effect.

Without a video its hard to show, but anyone else experience this since the release of DB?

Yep, happened to me too. I think it was lag at the moment, but i needed 3-4 rituals of retribution to cleanse a mark. It didn't seem a graphic glitch, as my addons showed i was still marked and after the 3rd ritual went away.

vortexman11 · June 2016

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Zenetrax · June 2016

Flake wrote: »

Not sure what's going on or if it's server lag, but it seems purge (and any morphs) plus purify are not cleansing negative effects efficiently. In some cases, works like it should, in others (normally with server lag) it takes a lot of casts to remove a single negative effect.

Without a video its hard to show, but anyone else experience this since the release of DB?

What's wrong with you?

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2016

Well, let's say you're trying to enter an enemy keep. Possible debuffs:

- snare from Caltrops
- snare from Cinder Storm
- root from Choking Talons
- Minor Main from Choking Talons
- some status effect
- Fire Ballista DoT
- Scatter Shot effect
- some *** from the NPC guards
- whatever else you can think of

Good luck trying to purge the stuff you want.

Scamandros · June 2016

vortexman11 wrote: »

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Someone told me today that poisons could not be purged, but the duration is so short I haven't bothered testing to see if this is true yet.

vortexman11 · June 2016

Scamandros wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Someone told me today that poisons could not be purged, but the duration is so short I haven't bothered testing to see if this is true yet.

They were confirmed to be purgeable on the last ESO live

lolo_01b16_ESO · June 2016

Flake wrote: »

Not sure what's going on or if it's server lag, but it seems purge (and any morphs) plus purify are not cleansing negative effects efficiently. In some cases, works like it should, in others (normally with server lag) it takes a lot of casts to remove a single negative effect.

Without a video its hard to show, but anyone else experience this since the release of DB?

I noticed something similar in pve. In vMoL I usually purge the reflective light the second boss does. Lately it seems to require 2-3 casts of purge to get rid of a single dot.

Anazasi · June 2016

With the number of debuffs that exist in game now its time to revert PURGE back to original no cap state. It is also advantageous to change barrier back to a no cap limit.

I also think the poison resits needs to be adjusted to include the new poisons while currently the resist is not part of that combat equation. Yes the poison resist works against poison abilities but not the new weapon poison charges. This should be looked into quickly by ZOS and the necessary changes should be made.

Scamandros · June 2016

vortexman11 wrote: »

Scamandros wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Someone told me today that poisons could not be purged, but the duration is so short I haven't bothered testing to see if this is true yet.

They were confirmed to be purgeable on the last ESO live

Interesting, thanks

Mako1132 · June 2016

Anazasi wrote: »

With the number of debuffs that exist in game now its time to revert PURGE back to original no cap state. It is also advantageous to change barrier back to a no cap limit.

Please no. There's a reason it was changed.

Zheg · June 2016

Mako1132 wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

With the number of debuffs that exist in game now its time to revert PURGE back to original no cap state. It is also advantageous to change barrier back to a no cap limit.

Please no. There's a reason it was changed.

There's a reason siege was significantly buffed too, that doesn't mean it was a good reason, or that it's been beneficial to Cyrodiil.

Barrier was too strong at 20 people, I think 12 is a better cap. It's just not worth it at 6 people, and if a skill isn't worth it then it's not performing well enough. Purge is too weak and too expensive for the current meta.

Pomaikai · June 2016

Scamandros wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Someone told me today that poisons could not be purged, but the duration is so short I haven't bothered testing to see if this is true yet.

That is correct. They cannot be purged, and it's total BS.

Pomaikai · June 2016

If Purge isn't going to remove weapon poisons, then the Snakeblood passive from Alchemy sure has heck better reduce their duration DRAMATICALLY!

Flake · June 2016

Purge is meant to remove 2 negative effects and always hit yourself. Last night, even with a single fire bal or oil at some points it took 5 purges to remove a single effect.

And like I said, when all the action died down, BANG! gone in a single cast.

Pomaikai · June 2016

Scamandros wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

I heard purge was nerfed to only remove two effects now, because the only logical thing to do when you add poisons that'll have different effects stacking on you from multiple players is to nerf their counter, right? Anyways though, the first day of the patch when I hopped on my tank DK which pretty much just spams purge I was thinking the same thing, that I wasn't getting purged, but when I saw it only removes 2 effects now I realised I must of just been getting hit by so many poisons that the game preferred to purge those off instead of the fire ballistas that ended up hitting me for 17k on my death cap...

Someone told me today that poisons could not be purged, but the duration is so short I haven't bothered testing to see if this is true yet.

So, there are TWO different morphs of Purge. One is supposed to remove 5 negative effects, and that sure seems to describe poisons even though they aren't purged, but requires a player to press X for a Synergy for it to remove those negative effects from players other than the Templar casting it. The other morph now only removes 2 effects , but it doesn't require a Synergy.

The worst part of all this is that ZOS swapped the effects, so unless you you respeced your skills, you now have the one that only purges 2 effects. Check your skills if you're a Templar! Then, once you have the correct morph of Purge, you find it has the old morph that no one ever used's animation that bloody takes FOREVER to cast. This makes it nigh unto useless in an active PVP combat situation.

The animation and casting time of the 5 negative effect purge needs to be changed back to the old fast cast time and animation to make it usable in PVP combat. It also MUST remove weapon poisons too, as they are a bloody negative effect!

Tl/dr: The new Purge morphs suck and don't work as advertised. Bugged, or working as intended, they're broken nigh unto uselessness.

Mako1132 · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

With the number of debuffs that exist in game now its time to revert PURGE back to original no cap state. It is also advantageous to change barrier back to a no cap limit.

Please no. There's a reason it was changed.

There's a reason siege was significantly buffed too, that doesn't mean it was a good reason, or that it's been beneficial to Cyrodiil.

Barrier was too strong at 20 people, I think 12 is a better cap. It's just not worth it at 6 people, and if a skill isn't worth it then it's not performing well enough. Purge is too weak and too expensive for the current meta.

We both know why siege was buffed and we both disagree with it.

The reason you don't like the barrier and purge nerfs is because it was directly pointed at your group. Plain and simple. You can't make your entire group completely immune to damage and you don't like it. I'll let you in on a little secret though... Barrier and Purge do exactly the same thing they did before they were nerfed, just not to unlimited targets. If I play in a group of 6 I get the full pre nerf benefit. If I play in a group of 12 I get half the benefit, which you yourself claim to be enough. If you play in a group larger than that then you have room for redundancies anyways. It's your choice to decide which ultimate you slot. If barrier isn't far and away the best choice so be it. Efficient purge should just be reworked though honestly.

Zheg · June 2016

Mako1132 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

With the number of debuffs that exist in game now its time to revert PURGE back to original no cap state. It is also advantageous to change barrier back to a no cap limit.

Please no. There's a reason it was changed.

There's a reason siege was significantly buffed too, that doesn't mean it was a good reason, or that it's been beneficial to Cyrodiil.

Barrier was too strong at 20 people, I think 12 is a better cap. It's just not worth it at 6 people, and if a skill isn't worth it then it's not performing well enough. Purge is too weak and too expensive for the current meta.

We both know why siege was buffed and we both disagree with it.

The reason you don't like the barrier and purge nerfs is because it was directly pointed at your group. Plain and simple. You can't make your entire group completely immune to damage and you don't like it. I'll let you in on a little secret though... Barrier and Purge do exactly the same thing they did before they were nerfed, just not to unlimited targets. If I play in a group of 6 I get the full pre nerf benefit. If I play in a group of 12 I get half the benefit, which you yourself claim to be enough. If you play in a group larger than that then you have room for redundancies anyways. It's your choice to decide which ultimate you slot. If barrier isn't far and away the best choice so be it. Efficient purge should just be reworked though honestly.

The costs and morphs were not correctly adjusted on barrier for a cap of 6. The skill is largely a wasted ultimate right now, even in a group of 6.

Siege debuffs aside, the biggest reason to use purge is to remove heal debuffs. They are prolific in the meta starting in TG, and have gotten worse in DB. Some classes can just shield through it, others rely on healing. Moreover, the blanket skill cost increases makes purge even harder to rely on, and that's before even considering the cap and the broken mechanics. It's not suddenly more expensive to left click and fire a ballista or meatbag, but removing those effects is noticeably more expensive. Heals are more expensive, heal debuffs are easier to apply. There are a lot of things that are off kilter here, and while the old purge with a cap of 20 may be too strong, I should think most sensible pvpers will realize that the current iteration of purge in this meta is under-performing, as is barrier.

No skill should be the end-all-be-all, and no skill should be so outclassed that it doesn't serve a purpose. This applies to agony, to radiant aura, to barrier, to *insert lackluster skill here*.

And no, my gripes have little to do with not being immune to damage and more to do with a diminished ability to tactically respond and recover from it. There's just not much that can be done when you have tons of counter siege on you. You used to have to coordinate siege and time it well, now you have bad players just rapid-fire left clicking safely off in the distance and taking no risk. It's gross. Additionally, these problems are far more pronounced when I'm in a group between 6-12ish. These changes were aimed at large groups, and I'm least affected by them when I'm in a large group, and most affected by them when I'm in a small group. Dat ZOS logic.

Mureel · June 2016

It is absolutely bugged and even worse, applies dots on allies in cast range immediately rather than cleansing them.

Anazasi · June 2016

Alliance Support line Purge not the Templar ability is the point of question. Efficient purge has a two part effect many of you are listing here. The first part is to remove 2 negative effects on x number of players. This does not seem to be removing the effects even if it is only 6 members or for that matter 2 members. The second part of efficient purge is the reduced 50% damage from negative effects for x seconds. This is not working and if it is not working on weapon poisons then it truly is broke. As it stands purge needs to be reworked but more importantly it should do what the description says. I should also remind players that the passives from the Alliance Support line are worth having in PVP regardless of the ability itself is deemed useless the passives are not and i am specifically drawing attention to the REGEN passive of the support line. Now this all is speculative and i could be totally wrong at this point since i have not looked at the passives in over 6 months and they could have been changed dramatically. However, Purge does not appear to be performing well enough for group play or solo play for that matter at this point.

I should also list an possible issue that is causing purge to be ineffective in current state. First off, siege was changed so that some of the de-buffs or at least part of the de-buff could not be removed (siege changes). It is possible that when a player attempts to purge negative effects that game see's those cant be removed de-buffs and counts them as part of the 2 effects. It would be conceivable that ZOS messed this up some how or that they could fix this by changing the way PURGE works. Such as looks for de-buffs that can be removed and removes 2 instead of 2 that cant be removed forcing the player to cast again and again and again to remove that which can be removed.

doubt if i even made any sense on this but the Doctor's say the meds are working.............

Asgari · June 2016

I notice this often on my Templar. I see 3-5 debuffs but it takes 2-3 casts to remove them. I'm using the morph that removes 5 btw. I just chalk it up to there being so many debuffs now that the game doesn't know what to do lol

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 2016

Notice this all the time, Purge just isn't a usable skill any more any morph of it.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

KenaPKK · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

I've suspected since the purge nerf that the mechanics are not 'smart'. When it hit 20, you never really noticed, but now that it hits 6, I suspect that if you have 10 people in group and all of you get hit by a meatbag, you can hit purge twice and it will try to purge people that it's already purged, so in theory you may have people with debuffs in your group of 10 that never got cleansed. The priority for which debuffs are purged is also a complete mystery, are you purging the cold fire ballista dot, the heal debuff, or the 30% snare? Templars want heal debuffs off them, but DKs probably want some other debuff prioritized.

They need to buff purge in some way because it's expensive as F compared to how easy it is to put debuffs on you, it doesn't seem to work 'smart', and siege is too prolific and powerful for it to not be functioning well. With the increased costs in this patch it just makes purge that much less efficient (pun ). Here's the unfortunate thing though, right now templars are the best equipped to deal with this because they can put down extended ritual and cleanse 5 effects, but if you make purge more powerful (which is necessary imo), you reduce the last remaining hallmark of the templar class.

Wut?

Zheg · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I've suspected since the purge nerf that the mechanics are not 'smart'. When it hit 20, you never really noticed, but now that it hits 6, I suspect that if you have 10 people in group and all of you get hit by a meatbag, you can hit purge twice and it will try to purge people that it's already purged, so in theory you may have people with debuffs in your group of 10 that never got cleansed. The priority for which debuffs are purged is also a complete mystery, are you purging the cold fire ballista dot, the heal debuff, or the 30% snare? Templars want heal debuffs off them, but DKs probably want some other debuff prioritized.

They need to buff purge in some way because it's expensive as F compared to how easy it is to put debuffs on you, it doesn't seem to work 'smart', and siege is too prolific and powerful for it to not be functioning well. With the increased costs in this patch it just makes purge that much less efficient (pun ). Here's the unfortunate thing though, right now templars are the best equipped to deal with this because they can put down extended ritual and cleanse 5 effects, but if you make purge more powerful (which is necessary imo), you reduce the last remaining hallmark of the templar class.

Wut?

The ability to cleanse yourself, particularly in this meta, is paramount to what makes a templar a templar. It is what makes a stamplar unique, it is what keeps a magplar alive (yes - as much as if not moreso than breath of life). If you don't understand that, then ... well ... I'm starting to gain a better understanding of where the nonsensical posts you've made about templars on the jesus beam threads came from.

If every class gained access to an invisibility skill via the support line, that sort of makes a NB's ability to cloak less important no? So what exactly was so hard to understand about what I said?

KenaPKK · June 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I've suspected since the purge nerf that the mechanics are not 'smart'. When it hit 20, you never really noticed, but now that it hits 6, I suspect that if you have 10 people in group and all of you get hit by a meatbag, you can hit purge twice and it will try to purge people that it's already purged, so in theory you may have people with debuffs in your group of 10 that never got cleansed. The priority for which debuffs are purged is also a complete mystery, are you purging the cold fire ballista dot, the heal debuff, or the 30% snare? Templars want heal debuffs off them, but DKs probably want some other debuff prioritized.

They need to buff purge in some way because it's expensive as F compared to how easy it is to put debuffs on you, it doesn't seem to work 'smart', and siege is too prolific and powerful for it to not be functioning well. With the increased costs in this patch it just makes purge that much less efficient (pun ). Here's the unfortunate thing though, right now templars are the best equipped to deal with this because they can put down extended ritual and cleanse 5 effects, but if you make purge more powerful (which is necessary imo), you reduce the last remaining hallmark of the templar class.

Wut?

The ability to cleanse yourself, particularly in this meta, is paramount to what makes a templar a templar. It is what makes a stamplar unique, it is what keeps a magplar alive (yes - as much as if not moreso than breath of life). If you don't understand that, then ... well ... I'm starting to gain a better understanding of where the nonsensical posts you've made about templars on the jesus beam threads came from.

If every class gained access to an invisibility skill via the support line, that sort of makes a NB's ability to cloak less important no? So what exactly was so hard to understand about what I said?

My point went completely over your head.

Of course cleansing is a characteristic of templars. The fact that they can heal themselves better than any other class and are immune to dots and healing debuffs makes them special.

But that isn't the "last remaining" hallmark. Templars are plenty unique, even as they dominate PvP.

I can't help but get the feeling from the way you talk here that as you play your zergplar, you feel a constant looming dread that you are playing the weakest class in desperate need of buffs... You do realize that templars have dominated PvP in all respects for months now, right? Get with the times man.

Edit: Oh, as for cloak, yea everyone has invis pots. Anyone can use them as they wish, and it doesn't bother me in the least. When I slot purge, I don't degrade templars' uniqueness. I borrow from it. When Raime uses his invis pot WB + leap on his DK or an invis pot after going werewolf on his stam sorc, I am not offended. He is sampling my class's uniqueness and gaining power from it. Overlap between class capabilities makes the game more interesting.

As for a skill-based source of invisibility, I actually have a list of changes to vampirism that I promote which revolves around the vamp abilities having additional effects at nighttime, one of which is Mist Form turning into straight invisibility. I think that'd be a cool feature on other classes as vampires.

Zheg · June 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I've suspected since the purge nerf that the mechanics are not 'smart'. When it hit 20, you never really noticed, but now that it hits 6, I suspect that if you have 10 people in group and all of you get hit by a meatbag, you can hit purge twice and it will try to purge people that it's already purged, so in theory you may have people with debuffs in your group of 10 that never got cleansed. The priority for which debuffs are purged is also a complete mystery, are you purging the cold fire ballista dot, the heal debuff, or the 30% snare? Templars want heal debuffs off them, but DKs probably want some other debuff prioritized.

They need to buff purge in some way because it's expensive as F compared to how easy it is to put debuffs on you, it doesn't seem to work 'smart', and siege is too prolific and powerful for it to not be functioning well. With the increased costs in this patch it just makes purge that much less efficient (pun ). Here's the unfortunate thing though, right now templars are the best equipped to deal with this because they can put down extended ritual and cleanse 5 effects, but if you make purge more powerful (which is necessary imo), you reduce the last remaining hallmark of the templar class.

Wut?

The ability to cleanse yourself, particularly in this meta, is paramount to what makes a templar a templar. It is what makes a stamplar unique, it is what keeps a magplar alive (yes - as much as if not moreso than breath of life). If you don't understand that, then ... well ... I'm starting to gain a better understanding of where the nonsensical posts you've made about templars on the jesus beam threads came from.

If every class gained access to an invisibility skill via the support line, that sort of makes a NB's ability to cloak less important no? So what exactly was so hard to understand about what I said?

My point went completely over your head.

Of course cleansing is a characteristic of templars. The fact that they can heal themselves better than any other class and are immune to dots and healing debuffs makes them special.

But that isn't the "last remaining" hallmark. Templars are plenty unique, even as they dominate PvP.

I can't help but get the feeling from the way you talk here that as you play your zergplar, you feel a constant looming dread that you are playing the weakest class in desperate need of buffs... You do realize that templars have dominated PvP in all respects for months now, right? Get with the times man.

Edit: Oh, as for cloak, yea everyone has invis pots. Anyone can use them as they wish, and it doesn't bother me in the least. When I slot purge, I don't degrade templars' uniqueness. I borrow from it. When Raime uses his invis pot WB + leap on his DK or an invis pot after going werewolf on his stam sorc, I am not offended. He is sampling my class's uniqueness and gaining power from it. Overlap between class capabilities makes the game more interesting.

As for a skill-based source of invisibility, I actually have a list of changes to vampirism that I promote which revolves around the vamp abilities having additional effects at nighttime, one of which is Mist Form turning into straight invisibility. I think that'd be a cool feature on other classes as vampires.

Your point? Maybe it went over my head because all it consisted of was "wut"? I honestly can't even respond to the rest of the idiocy running rampant in your post, it'll lower my IQ.

holosoul · June 2016

Why?
Kena is right

Zheg · June 2016

holosoul wrote: »

Why?
Kena is right

Rarely if ever.

KenaPKK · June 2016

Who here thinks Zheg should enter the Mighty tournament?