Cyrodiil unskilled : Melee DKs vs Radiant Destruction

EnOeZ · June 2016

34K Radiant Destruction ?
Sure !

http://imgur.com/qNQV4ip

34K in one single cast of Radiant Destruction !!!

It's like what 3 Ballistas shots ?
Spammable every 2.8sec
From 28m+ up to 48m (thx @Alcast )
Outside of retaliation range of meleers
Cannot be defended by roll dodge, line of sight or reflect
Counters block like Anti-cavalry caltrops (a 7K+ stamina ability) does to riders (thx @Bashev )
Over 12K DPs !
...with supposed Battle Spirit (reducing damage by 50% I remind you)
And it's not even an ultimate !

Come on !

EnOeZ · June 2016

34K Radiant Destruction I got !

34K in one single cast of Radiant Destruction !!!
It's like 3 Ballistas shots

Didaco wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

Have you tried slotting a bow with poison arrow?

Serious question, just to be clear.

As stated in the title "Melee DKs vs Radiant Destruction"

Bow is not melee, your position on the battlefield is not the same, the gameplay is of course a lot safer.
However I am sure that other classes (with effective burst heals, mobility and/or shields) and range weapons users are in a different boat.

The post is a no option situation for some type of players.

So here's where the problem lies.
I believe the concept behind every build is to sacrifice something to be better on another.
In Cyrodiil a solely melee build will always have its weakness exposed with all those plain fields, no LoS, etc.
You choose a build, you deal with its weaknesses. And melee will always be vulnerable to ranged, sorry.

I'm not saying RD doesn't need a tweak here and there, what I'm saying is I just can't get down in the field and yell "ok guys, I'm pure melee, now adapt to me".

In one hand, I agree that it could be a design choice, a game of rock, paper, scissors.
But then, ZOS needs to state it in their class description.

On the other hand I can return your argument and say "oh well guy, I am Templar, I destroy any occupied front line warrior from 28m + without him even being able to respond, now adapt to me" (meaning don't be a melee warrior anymore in Cyrodiil).

Plays need counter-plays to bring pleasure, but in that case we melee DKs have only three very very, very soft "counters":

Purge
Take Flight
Stone Fist

None of them practical and the last two needs 10 billions more skill to perform in real fight scenario to get to the Templar than Jesus beaming from 28+ away

I understand it can be fun for a time having free kills without any effort though, it must be from a Templar perspective, hilarious.

However as a Gamer, I like to be proud of what I achieve.

Lieblingsjunge · June 2016

RADIANT

I'm happy about the change they made to it - when it was dodge-roll able, it was completly useless against Stamina-classes, as they would dodge roll-dodgeroll-gapclose-dodgerolldodgeroll.
But it should NOT follow you through line of sight(Same goes for skills like WB, which can also hit through walls/obstacles). And they should tone down the damage above 50% health. Also - as someone whos usully small-scaling with some friends: When fighting as 2v7 the radiant is amazing for killing perma-dodge-rolling NBs whos had their HP down to >25%. Without it, I highly doubt it would turn out in our favour, lol.

Did a few experiments with @Sheey not long ago: Well, he did the experiments, I just beamed :"> Anyway.
3 templars: One with 2,7k spelldmg,one with 1,5k and another one with around 2,3k. The 3 of us(Templars) beamed Sheey from 100%, even though he used skills to survive(no dodge-roll or line of sight, tho), the 3 of us ended up getting him down anyway. And that's where its wrong - 3 jesusbeams on100%, which is an executioner, should NOT output enough damage to bring down a stamina dk at 100%. Srsly tho. I love Radiant. It's a rly strong executioner below 25% - but tone it down when above 50% at least. Maybe even 30 or 35%. Its just stupid as it is now

Tormy · June 2016

Following up from my post, I do agree that the skill needs to be looked at. Being able to roll dodge out of it should be possible IMO, as it burns my stamina as a defensive move and burns there mana as an offensive move. Or instead change the execute portion to a lower percent since it is ranged. 25% like impale would be fair.

RinOkumara · June 2016

I agree but don't punish pve by making the cost increase every time

Lokey0024 · June 2016

its funny, how many times has anyone been unstable flamed to death? Or firey chili breath to death? This isn't a dk only issue. Stam classes in general have issue with this. Maybe lower the scaling to 25% to increase the execute.

tennant94 · June 2016

Radiant does damage instantly then ticks then more damage. How it should function is, it should apply the channel then give a second before the first damage tick. This way people can actually react to it.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

OP, try the following:

1-Pop igneous or bone shield, no more crit from it (cut damage in half in most cases)

2-Vigor (high health makes this skill trivial

3- igneous followed by shuffle, start moving towards them.

4- If you can get close enough to chains it is game over

5- while casting, templars are moving at one third speed. This means you only have to close 9 meters (while they back up 3) assuming they are at max range, in order to gap close them.

6- when you get close, DON'T STOP HEALING. Ward and heals can get you through a lot, and if you're blocking it can be like so many fleas.

7- Pin them down with talons, fossilize, dizzying, whatever you got to pressure them.

This skill is used by noob and expert alike, but noob love to do it when they are in horrible, horrible places. If it is not broken by line of sight, that is either a bug or needs a fix, but range is NBD and neither is the execute damage, assuming you have stam/magic for heals and wards.

syko809 · June 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

the meta

I'm sure you can post just as many screenshots where it's all snipes..

Soooooooo is no one going to complain about snipe spam because it goes hand and hand with this post or what you dont want your op skill nerf lmao

syko809 · June 2016

Sledgemoto wrote: »

working as intended !!

That also has to do with champion points. Not everyone has 501 champion points. And this whole post to me sounds like a little kid who dont like dying and wants to get everything done his way. I admit i spam JB to take DKs and sorcs shields away.

MaxwellC · June 2016

Yup I've made posts about RD my problem is the range. I'll be in a fight with two other people and when I'm about to finish up 20+meters away you just see a beam and since that tick is so quick it'll go 5k 8k ...dead before you even realize what happened. The meta right now is Mag templar waiting for you to get 50% then spam beam or immediately spams beam while you fight two other people.

Ziare0 · June 2016

So me going against RD, I have not had too many problems with it. People tend to spam it a lot when I am at full health and i can just gap close and bash or out heal and shrug it off . If I were to give in my 2 cents I'd say a way to make the move a little better is by reducing the range slightly. OR lowering the threshold for Execute range i.e. instead of 50% down to 35%

Rune_Relic · June 2016

•

Considered a projectile (reflectable) => counterplay = skill= pleasure

/giggles

I was actually thinking about reflecting 4 beams at once ...to enemies of your choice the other day

I am not a DK by the way....not at any decent level at least.
I know what you are saying though.

Could be like squiddies entering a matrix hover.

EnOeZ · June 2016

syko809 wrote: »

Sledgemoto wrote: »

working as intended !!

That also has to do with champion points. Not everyone has 501 champion points. And this whole post to me sounds like a little kid who dont like dying and wants to get everything done his way. I admit i spam JB to take DKs and sorcs shields away.

Sadly for you, I do not even fall close to that "little kid" category.
Treating someone you don't even know that way is just explicitly saying, "I have no conter-argument at all", making you appear quite dumb.
As an Jesus Beam spammer, enjoying a skill-less gameplay, your thread simply falls into "let me abuse my broken game mechanic because I cannot get enjoyment otherwise"

When you have something smart, constructive or respectful that passes through your head, please come back.

EnOeZ · June 2016

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)

Execute range : 50% life left
Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)
Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)
Range : Melee (5m)
Cost : 7501 over 2.8s
Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)

Execute range : 25% life left
Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)
Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)
Range : Melee (5m)
Cost : 4774 over 2.8s
Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)

Execute range : 50% life left
Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)
Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)
Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)
Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)
Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :

28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)
50% additional DPS !!!
Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !
Half the cost !!!
Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !
Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel

Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

DocFrost72 · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather a thread reading "I can't show this, here's the math, so give me a better tool" than "ZOMG, pls nrf easymode".

OP, plenty have commented ways for you to counter this, from LOS (which last time I checked, works), healing, shields, slotting a bow for poison arrow/snipe as a hard counter, wearing full inpen, increasing speed to get into gap closer range while they are snared by their own ability, etc etc.

If you aren't going to try the above, at least call to self buffs rather than nerfs to other classes. I'm getting tired of the nerfs for the sake of balance in PVP that screw up PVE, and vice versa.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

@DocFrost72 amen! Haha can you imagine these folks trying to run a trial or something after you've hamstrung their beam? Everyone would be looking around confused as to why the boss isn't dying as fast.

EnOeZ · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. And anyone can take off their armor and post a stupid video and go "oooohhh hey guuyyyysss, look at my death recap. So OP!!!!!" Wear impen like everyone else and L2P. You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

Obviously, not only you do not how to read properly, since I stated where those values come from, but also you have no idea of what a game is (deeply) and what is its interest in the long run. If an entire population, aka melee first-liners and PVP Tanks can't play because of one single ability which is outstandingly owerpowered and over-priviledged, ignoring dodge and continuing after loss of LOS, its the entire game play and game that looses !

...Including you, as short-minded a person you are. Of course some people skill-challenged asks for and defend cheeses like RD is in my book. It's called skill-frustration.

I don't ask for a nerf, I ask for a redesign of this ability.

The screenshots are made from a Max level character with full impen purple to yellow, FYI.

EnOeZ · June 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather a thread reading "I can't show this, here's the math, so give me a better tool" than "ZOMG, pls nrf easymode".

OP, plenty have commented ways for you to counter this, from LOS (which last time I checked, works), healing, shields, slotting a bow for poison arrow/snipe as a hard counter, wearing full inpen, increasing speed to get into gap closer range while they are snared by their own ability, etc etc.

If you aren't going to try the above, at least call to self buffs rather than nerfs to other classes. I'm getting tired of the nerfs for the sake of balance in PVP that screw up PVE, and vice versa.

Well, if you are unhappy with balance moves, I am not the one to be angry against.

As a PVPer I would be very happy with a total split of the game. Balance is a PVP thing mainly, isn't it. You are a PVEer, we are almost not in the same world. PVE is about learning and executing scripted mechanics. PVP is ultimately about defeating the mind of an adversary or ten, save a castle by oneself against a group of 8+ players and allow the crowning of your Emperor...

What makes a game last is PVP (look at the best competitive and long-lasting games in History like Counter Strike, Starcraft...), not PVE (DLCs endlessly needed). If I was a ZOS investor I would clearly put priority on Game Balance and Mechanics, dungeons second, not vice versa.

If you feel not concerned about balance, just go back to set farming and leave the thread.

EnOeZ · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@DocFrost72 amen! Haha can you imagine these folks trying to run a trial or something after you've hamstrung their beam? Everyone would be looking around confused as to why the boss isn't dying as fast.

Yeah, as stated in the title, it's a PVP thread, not a PVE one.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

EnOeZ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather a thread reading "I can't show this, here's the math, so give me a better tool" than "ZOMG, pls nrf easymode".

OP, plenty have commented ways for you to counter this, from LOS (which last time I checked, works), healing, shields, slotting a bow for poison arrow/snipe as a hard counter, wearing full inpen, increasing speed to get into gap closer range while they are snared by their own ability, etc etc.

If you aren't going to try the above, at least call to self buffs rather than nerfs to other classes. I'm getting tired of the nerfs for the sake of balance in PVP that screw up PVE, and vice versa.

Well, if you are unhappy with balance moves, I am not the one to be angry against.

As a PVPer I would be very happy with a total split of the game. Balance is a PVP thing mainly, isn't it. You are a PVEer, we are almost not in the same world. PVE is about learning and executing scripted mechanics. PVP is ultimately about defeating the mind of an adversary or ten, save a castle by oneself against a group of 8+ players and allow the crowning of your Emperor...

What makes a game last is PVP (look at the best competitive and long-lasting games in History like Counter Strike, Starcraft...), not PVE (DLCs endlessly needed). If I was a ZOS investor I would clearly put priority on Game Balance and Mechanics, dungeons second, not vice versa.

If you feel not concerned about balance, just go back to set farming and leave the thread.

Let us begin.

I am not unhappy with balancing a game, I am unhappy with nerfs. One does not equal the other.

You claim I am "A PVEer". You are right, but I am also an "RPer", a "PVPer", and a "player". And while I agree to some extent that they are vastly different, I do not think by any means it is fair to dismiss my concern for what would happen to a nerfed RD even IF I only did PvE content. As an aside, did you think my suggestions to counter RD came out of nowhere? I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.

What makes a game last can vary wildly, and it is by no means any one content. Look at WoW, constantly balancing AND putting forth DLC because not everyone PvEs, and not everyone PvPs. A healthy balance is needex, not focus on one or the other.

If you want me out of the thread, there are better ways to do so than suggesting I am a PvE "easy mode can only fave scripted encounters" care bear (not your words, mine). Perhaps acknowledging some of the advice I (or others much more skilled than myself) have offered, and not being so selfish as to demand a nerf without seeing the full view of how that nerf would affect the game in the large scale.

I have no issue with what you're saying, but my informed comment is: I'd stand behind you if you asked for a buff to skills that would let you counter something you find annoying. Maybe not in this case specifically, but you'd have a MUCH easier time convincing me and others.

SwaminoNowlino · June 2016

@EnOeZ oh yeah, I'm a real PVE'r all right. I didn't realize that was an insult but I guess by your tone you're implying it is. I actually do zero PVE except for the occasional daily, and am almost exclusively PVPing either solo or in small groups.

"Oh goodness I only want to play close range but those long range guys keep killing me, they should be nerfed." Outstanding logic mate. Outstanding. And if you are wearing gold impen gear as you claim, I'd think you'd make a point to demonstrate that if you were trying to do an empirical test. Or you know, wear BS gear and just claim you were wearing impen, which I'm fairly certain is what went on here. And yes, I can in fact read and also noticed that you took the time to cherry pick damage tool tips, which is nice. End of story is that I'll wreck someone much quicker with weaved jabs and executioners than Jesus beam from full health.

So yeah, ZOS sure isn't going to pay any attention to the opinions you have so eloquently stated here, and I'm just here to dispel this ridiculous notion you have, which I feel has been done sufficiently. Have fun QQing as you die to JB, life is so much better when you L2P. Have a good day!

EnOeZ · June 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@EnOeZ oh yeah, I'm a real PVE'r all right. I didn't realize that was an insult but I guess by your tone you're implying it is. I actually do zero PVE except for the occasional daily, and am almost exclusively PVPing either solo or in small groups.

"Oh goodness I only want to play close range but those long range guys keep killing me, they should be nerfed." Outstanding logic mate. Outstanding. And if you are wearing gold impen gear as you claim, I'd think you'd make a point to demonstrate that if you were trying to do an empirical test. Or you know, wear BS gear and just claim you were wearing impen, which I'm fairly certain is what went on here. And yes, I can in fact read and also noticed that you took the time to cherry pick damage tool tips, which is nice. End of story is that I'll wreck someone much quicker with weaved jabs and executioners than Jesus beam from full health.

So yeah, ZOS sure isn't going to pay any attention to the opinions you have so eloquently stated here, and I'm just here to dispel this ridiculous notion you have, which I feel has been done sufficiently. Have fun QQing as you die to JB, life is so much better when you L2P. Have a good day!

Sorry too low level comments for me.
I don't enjoy wasting people time as I don't enjoy people wasting other's time.

EnOeZ · June 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather a thread reading "I can't show this, here's the math, so give me a better tool" than "ZOMG, pls nrf easymode".

OP, plenty have commented ways for you to counter this, from LOS (which last time I checked, works), healing, shields, slotting a bow for poison arrow/snipe as a hard counter, wearing full inpen, increasing speed to get into gap closer range while they are snared by their own ability, etc etc.

If you aren't going to try the above, at least call to self buffs rather than nerfs to other classes. I'm getting tired of the nerfs for the sake of balance in PVP that screw up PVE, and vice versa.

Well, if you are unhappy with balance moves, I am not the one to be angry against.

As a PVPer I would be very happy with a total split of the game. Balance is a PVP thing mainly, isn't it. You are a PVEer, we are almost not in the same world. PVE is about learning and executing scripted mechanics. PVP is ultimately about defeating the mind of an adversary or ten, save a castle by oneself against a group of 8+ players and allow the crowning of your Emperor...

What makes a game last is PVP (look at the best competitive and long-lasting games in History like Counter Strike, Starcraft...), not PVE (DLCs endlessly needed). If I was a ZOS investor I would clearly put priority on Game Balance and Mechanics, dungeons second, not vice versa.

If you feel not concerned about balance, just go back to set farming and leave the thread.

Let us begin.

I am not unhappy with balancing a game, I am unhappy with nerfs. One does not equal the other.

You claim I am "A PVEer". You are right, but I am also an "RPer", a "PVPer", and a "player". And while I agree to some extent that they are vastly different, I do not think by any means it is fair to dismiss my concern for what would happen to a nerfed RD even IF I only did PvE content. As an aside, did you think my suggestions to counter RD came out of nowhere? I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.

What makes a game last can vary wildly, and it is by no means any one content. Look at WoW, constantly balancing AND putting forth DLC because not everyone PvEs, and not everyone PvPs. A healthy balance is needex, not focus on one or the other.

If you want me out of the thread, there are better ways to do so than suggesting I am a PvE "easy mode can only fave scripted encounters" care bear (not your words, mine). Perhaps acknowledging some of the advice I (or others much more skilled than myself) have offered, and not being so selfish as to demand a nerf without seeing the full view of how that nerf would affect the game in the large scale.

I have no issue with what you're saying, but my informed comment is: I'd stand behind you if you asked for a buff to skills that would let you counter something you find annoying. Maybe not in this case specifically, but you'd have a MUCH easier time convincing me and others.

Listen, I have more e-sport experience here that probably 99,99% of the people in the game and probably of any ZOS employee. I know what is balance, I have worked in e-sport and ranked top 8 in my region at a very emblematic competitive game (W3). I help trained a world Vice Champion at another very big emblematic game (Pro Evolution Soccer), and brought 3 teams of Counter Strike to the world top 16. I was part of a commitee selecting (or rejecting) games based on balance and e-sport ability for five years.

And I tell you this ability is not balanced and it kills a portion of the game, portion you are not part of, so you don't care I understand.

Now, sure this game never claimed to be e-sport friendly and has never made any move in that direction.

Dracane · June 2016

While I agree that radiant destruction is too strong damage wise. Range is basically non-existing in Cyrodiil. In this game, staying close to a target is too easy. Gap closer range and movement speed are too high in order to not be able to be right in the face of your target.

And since radiant destruction is easily interruptable, you shouldn't have the slightest problem. Radiant destruction, like snipe and overload, is one of these nasty Xv1 abilities that are almost useless 1v1 due to being easy to counter, but super lethal when you are outnumbered. You can't do anything about it really. Radiant destruction is even deadlier than snipe etc of course, since it is not dodgeable.

However, Templar is the most overpowered class anyway. Usually they only need 2 buttons in order to get everything. Spam Breath of life to make a group and yourself unkillable and radiant destruction spam for free AP. Maybe add a 3rd button for solo play, punturing sweeps. And done, you get everything out of 2 buttons. You don't need anything else.
Yet Stam DK is on the same level of OPness, even more probably. Just with a liddle more effort

danno8 · June 2016

Bashev wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

the meta

I'm sure you can post just as many screenshots where it's all snipes..

naah, I can reflect snipes and kill archers with their own snipes, but I can't reflect or dodge this *** cancer skill

I heard there's some thing called block, which stam DKs do rather well too.. and DK has a 41m class skill interrupt (stone fist).

Anyway all skills are annoying, if people kill you with it :-) Vid of tormy shows it's not an instant I-WIN button as some seem to think... but annoying nevertheless (but so would 3 ppl doing snipes / spambush / WB / ... be).

Radian destruction is the best counter to block. It drains your stamina in the best possible way. It ticks every half second and if you block the whole duration you will be charged for 6 blocks. The CD for block cost is 0.5 seconds. For example if I block light attack skill and bash i will be charged only once for the block. Average block cost nowadays is 1.5 k stamina per block. If I have to block a full radian destruction I need 9k stamina.

It ticks once per second. It used to tick every half second but they nerfed it last year.

danno8 · June 2016

Tormy wrote: »

I'm not the best stam DK but here's a 1v3 radiant spammer where I survive the RD: http://sendvid.com/11vvybza

Honestly I don't think radiant is as OP as it's made out to be on the forums.

This is a perfect example of how to counter it. 3 V16 Templars trying to use RD at full health and they are totally ineffective.

You will notice how this post will not be commented on and completely ignored by all the "nerf RD!" folks.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

EnOeZ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Let's compare three executes we all know well, shall we ?

Reverse slash (2H)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 7501 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Assassin's blade (Nightblade)
Execute range : 25% life left

Base damage : 412 by hit (=412DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 1236/cast)

Range : Melee (5m)

Cost : 4774 over 2.8s

Vulnerable to dodge, block

Radiant Destruction (Templar)
Execute range : 50% life left

Base damage : 1768 over 2.8s (=631DPS)

Can go up to +300% (=max 5304/cast)

Range : 28m (up to 48m away in Cyrodiil)

Cost : 4141 (for the 2.8s cast)

Not vulnerable to dodge, not really vulnerable to block (drains stamina twice as fast)

As you can see, RD does at max range and in complete, safety more than 50% additional damage than Reverse Slah and Assassin's blade, two other executes. Contrary to them, you do not have to be in the middle of the battle (you can be up to 48m away, more than twice the range of gap closers (sick), AND dodge (completely ineffective) and block (completely inefficient due to RD ticking twice a sec with first tick at cast) are partially to completely bypassed... and it is the cheapest of all three, almost half the price of Reverse Slash !

Come on guys ! Let's sum up :
28m+ vs Melee (Twice the range of gap closers)

50% additional DPS !!!

Twice the execute range of Assassin's blade (50% instead of 25) !

Half the cost !!!

Twice better at Stamina draining to blockers !

Not dodgeable (contrary to the other two) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=> Can someone explain to me how on Earth it could be close to "balanced" ?!!

Undefendable 34K+ damage in one single cast !

Grrrr !!

Feedback appreciated please @Wrobel
Something we are missing ?

Elder Jesus Beamer Online, where the skill is on one side and the fun on the other...
--
(base damage values/tooltips, source : http://eso-skills.com/skill/)

It's completely defendable. Block, LOS, Purge, etc. and 34k is 11k dps, which is actually quite low. Idk what planet you are getting your BS values for executioner from, but I can hit those for 12k in PVP with light attacks weaved in for much more dps. [snip] You made a decision in building straight close range so deal with it. Alternatively you could have a more balanced build like my Stam DK and be completely fine. So sick of people posting this stupid stuff trying to get other classes nerfed. It's just so lazy. If you want to play straight close range, you'd better have a healer with you or just accept you're going to take range deaths.

I main a Stam temp, and Magicka temp is the only class I don't have. Magicka Temps are my kryptonite, as they're the one class I can't counter. You don't see me demanding they nerf them or even buff me. Just accept there are some things that are going to counter you and deal with it.

/end rant and /end these stupid nerf threads

[Edit to remove bait]

I'm with you on this. I'd much rather a thread reading "I can't show this, here's the math, so give me a better tool" than "ZOMG, pls nrf easymode".

OP, plenty have commented ways for you to counter this, from LOS (which last time I checked, works), healing, shields, slotting a bow for poison arrow/snipe as a hard counter, wearing full inpen, increasing speed to get into gap closer range while they are snared by their own ability, etc etc.

If you aren't going to try the above, at least call to self buffs rather than nerfs to other classes. I'm getting tired of the nerfs for the sake of balance in PVP that screw up PVE, and vice versa.

Well, if you are unhappy with balance moves, I am not the one to be angry against.

As a PVPer I would be very happy with a total split of the game. Balance is a PVP thing mainly, isn't it. You are a PVEer, we are almost not in the same world. PVE is about learning and executing scripted mechanics. PVP is ultimately about defeating the mind of an adversary or ten, save a castle by oneself against a group of 8+ players and allow the crowning of your Emperor...

What makes a game last is PVP (look at the best competitive and long-lasting games in History like Counter Strike, Starcraft...), not PVE (DLCs endlessly needed). If I was a ZOS investor I would clearly put priority on Game Balance and Mechanics, dungeons second, not vice versa.

If you feel not concerned about balance, just go back to set farming and leave the thread.

Let us begin.

I am not unhappy with balancing a game, I am unhappy with nerfs. One does not equal the other.

You claim I am "A PVEer". You are right, but I am also an "RPer", a "PVPer", and a "player". And while I agree to some extent that they are vastly different, I do not think by any means it is fair to dismiss my concern for what would happen to a nerfed RD even IF I only did PvE content. As an aside, did you think my suggestions to counter RD came out of nowhere? I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.

What makes a game last can vary wildly, and it is by no means any one content. Look at WoW, constantly balancing AND putting forth DLC because not everyone PvEs, and not everyone PvPs. A healthy balance is needex, not focus on one or the other.

If you want me out of the thread, there are better ways to do so than suggesting I am a PvE "easy mode can only fave scripted encounters" care bear (not your words, mine). Perhaps acknowledging some of the advice I (or others much more skilled than myself) have offered, and not being so selfish as to demand a nerf without seeing the full view of how that nerf would affect the game in the large scale.

I have no issue with what you're saying, but my informed comment is: I'd stand behind you if you asked for a buff to skills that would let you counter something you find annoying. Maybe not in this case specifically, but you'd have a MUCH easier time convincing me and others.

Listen, I have more e-sport experience here that probably 99,99% of the people in the game and probably of any ZOS employee. I know what is balance, I have worked in e-sport and ranked top 8 in my region at a very emblematic competitive game (W3). I help trained a world Vice Champion at another very big emblematic game (Pro Evolution Soccer), and brought 3 teams of Counter Strike to the world top 16. I was part of a commitee selecting (or rejecting) games based on balance and e-sport ability for five years.

And I tell you this ability is not balanced and it kills a portion of the game, portion you are not part of, so you don't care I understand.

Now, sure this game never claimed to be e-sport friendly and has never made any move in that direction.

Did you actually read it? Seriously go back and read my post, because if you had you'd see where I said I am a PvPer.

And dude, for the love of the gods you sound like a certain person running for president in the US right now. "I know balance, I have the best balances." One more time, I'll make it simple.

I pvp

I am okay with adjusting RD

Don't nerf annoying skills, l2p

If you refuse to l2p, try to buff something to counter the skill

The skill is totally counterable

You want to not have to use any range

This is an l2p issue.

Ughh... I feel gross even saying l2p, but I can't think of a better way to explain this to someone who has a ward, three self heals (assuming 2h) wings, an ult gap closer, the best dot dmg in the game (which will stop the RD spam, one way or the other), and decided to go melee only.

Armitas · June 2016

EnOeZ wrote: »

But I know already that even with efficient purge, It is outside of realistic for stamina players (what I am).

oy vey, even adding purge to my already cramped mDK bar is rough. I have to have 3 damagers, engulfing flames, burning embers and Flame lash, plus talons for power lash just to approach having enough dps to kill someone through their healing, stealthing, and mines. My back bar has to be resto cause Dragon Blood bleeds gravy so I'm taking a ton of extra damage switching to my back bar to cleanse a purge that can just be reapplied immediately thereafter in perpetuity.