Where is the completed Justice system?

Delegator · June 2016

Back when Legerdemain was added as a skill line, we were told that it was the first part in what would be a fleshed-out "justice system" that would include bounties collectible by players, in-faction PVP between good guys and bad guys, and so on. Instead we have a melange of three parts: LEgerdemain (free), Thieves Guild (DLC) and Dark Brotherhood (DLC). None of these have any negative consequences to stealing or killing -- not any of note, anyway. The player-based bounty hunting has been officially scrapped, and the sum of the parts doesn't have any cohesion.

It seems to me that the three parts really should be one -- or at least that TG & DB should be one DLC because they complement each other thematically. And I would like to see the other side of Legerdemain filled out at some point.

All this is said as an ESO Plus subscriber, BTW. It is not at all about cost, but about cohesion and completeness. Now that players are encouraged to murder in addition to steal, will there ever be another side added to the Justice system?

The_Saint · June 2016

No...
They already said the second part will not come

phobossion · June 2016

To be precise, I recall them saying "it's on the backburner", not that they've scrapped the idea altogether.

arkansas_ESO · June 2016

phobossion wrote: »

To be precise, I recall them saying "it's on the backburner", not that they've scrapped the idea altogether.

That's spellcrafting that got put on the backburner. Justice PVP has been completely scrapped.

arkansas_ESO · June 2016

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead

Gidorick · June 2016

It was stolen from us... and we've no PVP to get it back.

Phinix1 · June 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead

Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to griefing and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.

Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.

I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.

sadownik · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead

Personally, I have a great deal of respect for Zenimax for maintaining this philosophy when so many companies are cashing in on the short term pandering to epeen and pay-to-win type mechanics, where the man with the most coin or hours to grind gains a ridiculous advantage, then goes and lords it over others, diminishing the quality of the majority gaming experience.

I believe it is disgraceful that the "yolo generation" of greed behaves this way in real life, and I believe it disgraceful when companies lack the creative vision to be profitable by any means but catering to it. Hats off to Zenimax. They are more profitable than many of the come-lately titles in this shameful category of MMO's.

Perhaps it could be done in a way that gives PVP people what they want without creating an imbalance, but it would require so much meticulous re-zoneing and dynamic stat scaling that the lag in PVE zones would end up worse than Cyrodiil.

I am with ZOS. If you wanna PVP, go to the PVP place.

My i ask what are you on? Yolo generation? Epeens?

We are talking about element that was announced and marketed. I personally find it extremly unproffesional to make a big show about incoming aspect of the game and then just scrapping it.

Mind you i knew form beginning it will be difficult to implement, but if i did hard to believe ZOS didnt. So fooling people into false hype? Not nice.

Dubhliam · June 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/01/12/eso--the-year-ahead

From the DB PAX round table:

Q11: One of the things that I really wanted to see in ESO was the PvP Justice System and I was wondering if there was anything specific that you discovered during your balancing that makes it entirely impossible forever doing this or is it maybe there might be some way to figure out how to do it at some point?

RL: So, nothing's impossible. Right with the justice system the PvP portion of it specifically there are a lot of edge cases. We have a lot of really creative players who run around in Cyrodiil and when you see what they're doing and how there doing it and y'know we have to be very careful that we don't break what we've got already. PvE portion of the justice system is really popular and everyone loves it and changing that, well, I've heard a lot of suggestions like just let players opt-in well as soon as you do that the less scrupulous players start to play with that and find some loopholes and so we decided that rather than go down that road we'd focus our efforts elsewhere. But nothing's impossible.

Phinix1 · June 2016

sadownik wrote: »

My i ask what are you on? Yolo generation? Epeens?

Take for example, the recent launch of Black Desert Online. Here is an example of a great engine, excellent graphics, fun active combat, and yet the game flopped in the first month due to terrible decisions that led to horrible imbalance and masses of players leaving in droves.

Specifically, they built the game around this same sort of forced PVP mindset, where one group of players (PVE players, by far the majority in any MMO), were forced to be flagged for open world PVP whether they wanted to participate or not. Players with tons of money or time to grind had gear with 3 or 4 times the stats of average level gear and would stalk questing players and annihilate them. Why? Because that's what people do!

Literally within the first month the top 4 streamers posted videos about why they were leaving, and this was among the top 3 reasons.

Were ESO to implement such a system, it would be to cater to a very small demographic of players that want the PVP elements of the game to be forced onto the PVE elements of the game. I am saying I am glad ZOS reconsidered not making this same foolish mistake.

So much of this game is build around stealing, getting bounty, then trading off leniency items or waiting it out, in order to make gold, experience content, etc. Two whole DLC's have been built around this.

To introduce a system where getting bounty during the normal course of playing the bulk of recent content would result in you being subjected to quest hub camping and forced PVP by "guard" players in superior gear 1-shot ganking you, would be a TERRIBLE decision, regardless of how it was marketed.

Besides, this was always a "maybe" thing as far as I am aware.

Like I said if they find a compromise to make it optional for both the PVP AND PVE players, meaning you don't automatically get flagged as bait just for having a certain bounty, but only if you WANT to, as a sort of dueling option for open world, and IF they could make it forbidden in cities and trade areas so people didn't constantly make more of a mess of crafting hubs with their PVP antics, then I wouldn't be 100% against it.

It's just something I personally have zero interest in even in a perfect scenario and if forced or done badly or made exploitable or unbalancing, it destroys games.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2016

It was to scary.

Alurria · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

My i ask what are you on? Yolo generation? Epeens?

Take for example, the recent launch of Black Desert Online. Here is an example of a great engine, excellent graphics, fun active combat, and yet the game flopped in the first month due to terrible decisions that led to horrible imbalance and masses of players leaving in droves.

Specifically, they built the game around this same sort of forced PVP mindset, where one group of players (PVE players, by far the majority in any MMO), were forced to be flagged for open world PVP whether they wanted to participate or not. Players with tons of money or time to grind had gear with 3 or 4 times the stats of average level gear and would stalk questing players and annihilate them. Why? Because that's what people do!

Literally within the first month the top 4 streamers posted videos about why they were leaving, and this was among the top 3 reasons.

Were ESO to implement such a system, it would be to cater to a very small demographic of players that want the PVP elements of the game to be forced onto the PVE elements of the game. I am saying I am glad ZOS reconsidered not making this same foolish mistake.

So much of this game is build around stealing, getting bounty, then trading off leniency items or waiting it out, in order to make gold, experience content, etc. Two whole DLC's have been built around this.

To introduce a system where getting bounty during the normal course of playing the bulk of recent content would result in you being subjected to quest hub camping and forced PVP by "guard" players in superior gear 1-shot ganking you, would be a TERRIBLE decision, regardless of how it was marketed.

Besides, this was always a "maybe" thing as far as I am aware.

Like I said if they find a compromise to make it optional for both the PVP AND PVE players, meaning you don't automatically get flagged as bait just for having a certain bounty, but only if you WANT to, as a sort of dueling option for open world, and IF they could make it forbidden in cities and trade areas so people didn't constantly make more of a mess of crafting hubs with their PVP antics, then I wouldn't be 100% against it.

It's just something I personally have zero interest in even in a perfect scenario and if forced or done badly or made exploitable or unbalancing, it destroys games.

I agree, if done badly a lot of PVE people who only want to participate in PVE would be left out in the cold. By in large there are more of the PVE crowd then PVPers. They gave a plausible explanation of why they don't want to go down this road at this time. I would rather they use caution then go down the road blind personally.

Arato · June 2016

I'm not a big PVP player at all, but I've wanted the enforcer system ever since it was announced. I think it was the most creative way of making a fair world PVP system I've ever seen in a game, don't want to get ganked? Obey the law, don't be an outlaw. I'd like to know what kinds of exploits they were talking about because to me, all they really had to do was make it so that you don't get flagged for PVP unless your bounty is high enough that Guards attack you on sight. If you want to be extra safe about it, make it so that your bounty has to reach 1000g before players can kill you. There's ways of reducing your bounty so that it's an essentially voluntary PVP system.

One thing I've read that I think is wholly unnecessary is the enforcer guild and mutually exclusive aspect between being an enforcer and being a criminal. Anyone should be able to attack someone with an appropriate sized bounty anywhere except Outlaw Refuges.

Tandor · June 2016

There's absolutely no reason why "same faction good guy and bad guy" enforcement shouldn't be added to the Justice System - in PvP areas. However, no PvPer wants it in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, they want it in PvE areas for reasons that are all too obvious and which lie behind the decision not to go down that route.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...

Arato · June 2016

Tandor wrote: »

There's absolutely no reason why "same faction good guy and bad guy" enforcement shouldn't be added to the Justice System - in PvP areas. However, no PvPer wants it in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, they want it in PvE areas for reasons that are all too obvious and which lie behind the decision not to go down that route.

You would have to rack up a bounty for someone to be able to kill you in a PVE area, and not just a "I accidentally clicked on a loaf of bread while trying to talk to an NPC" but a "I just murdered 3 people in broad daylight in front of the entire mage's guild and skipped town to avoid the guards"

To get attacked in PVP in a PVE area under the justice system, you would have to KNOWINGLY be breaking the law and deserve to be hunted down and executed.

There'd be no reasons to complain you were ganked, because you can either obey the law, or keep your bounty low.

I'm not a PVP player or a ganker, but I want the PVP portion of the justice system in game because I think it's creative, fair, and a good way to implement open world PVP that doesn't prey upon PVE players.

Not to mention, when the PVP elements are added in, the NPC guards will be rebalanced, making them not god mode.

Arato · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...

You can't force players to break the law.

Agalloch · June 2016

Phinix I agree with u in some aspects ..but look at the best pvp game ever Lineage 2..yes ..is very old but did the things wisely...why all the american community is afraid of pvp flag..or forced pvp ? In the real life we argue each other..sometimes fight each other..and hundreds years ago..or maybe thousands this could launch a war...ESO is not a real life simulator but could be in some things..to add justice system as they promised at launch..
They could add bounty on players...karma kill and so on...prison...like in Archeage ..trial court ...this could expand ...penalyties...but justice system was and is one of the best part of this game to add...surely after they fix the new infinite loading screens , bugs and balancing.

English is not my native language.

And Phinix keep up your awesome work with addons...ur almost the best!

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...

You can't force players to break the law.

Your point is wasted on me . I was an advocate for the Justice system second installment .

Osteos · June 2016

I find it interesting that the pvp enforcers are perceived as the miscreants, not the player using the blade of woe to murder that npc minding her own business raking leaves. How is that its perfectly acceptable to murder npcs but a player killing another player is a sociopath? I like the justice system, but it is ridiculously easy to escape guards and murder with impunity.

I would like to be able to do something when I see someone murdering an npc. I think if your bounty gets high enough as @Arato suggested you should automatically be flagged for pvp enforcers. This would encourage people to be a bit more careful when murdering or stealing.

Arato · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Inner faction PvP , while fun to some is not fun to many . We've asked for an "option in" ability to give those that don't want to participate . Still , no dice . The number one concern seems to be the arguments this would start . Players yelling at other players for not optioning in . The fact that same faction can read each other's messages and don't want the PvP back and forth toxicity ruining their play . Even though I myself would enjoy this and not be a pest , I know they have a point and others will . So in short , I doubt ZOS will implement the second installment ...

You can't force players to break the law.

Your point is wasted on me . I was an advocate for the Justice system second installment .

I guess so, I just don't get the opposition to it. I'm wholly against FFA PVP in the open world where it's not voluntary because of griefers preying upon lower level characters who don't want to PVP, and it also destroys the spirit of cooperation and trust of playing with other players around you (in TERA they have FFA PVP, and it's the most antisocial world I've ever seen because other players around you are never a help, at best they kill steal mobs from you, at worst they will flag outlaw and try to kill you, so everyone abuses the channel system to avoid other players when questing), but in the justice system's case, you can't just get ganked through normal play you'd have to willingly do something... quite a bit, in a short span of time, to earn your death, and as it is, invincible God mode NPC's already pretty much instakill you if you get a bounty more than about 300 in one crime anyway.

Tandor · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

There's absolutely no reason why "same faction good guy and bad guy" enforcement shouldn't be added to the Justice System - in PvP areas. However, no PvPer wants it in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, they want it in PvE areas for reasons that are all too obvious and which lie behind the decision not to go down that route.

You would have to rack up a bounty for someone to be able to kill you in a PVE area, and not just a "I accidentally clicked on a loaf of bread while trying to talk to an NPC" but a "I just murdered 3 people in broad daylight in front of the entire mage's guild and skipped town to avoid the guards"

To get attacked in PVP in a PVE area under the justice system, you would have to KNOWINGLY be breaking the law and deserve to be hunted down and executed.

There'd be no reasons to complain you were ganked, because you can either obey the law, or keep your bounty low.

I'm not a PVP player or a ganker, but I want the PVP portion of the justice system in game because I think it's creative, fair, and a good way to implement open world PVP that doesn't prey upon PVE players.

Not to mention, when the PVP elements are added in, the NPC guards will be rebalanced, making them not god mode.

This is precisely why PvP in PvE areas is wrong. You want to have it so that PvEers have a choice of not participating fully in PvE content or else being forced to PvP. I've nothing against PvP, but keep it in PvP areas. PvE crimes in PvE areas should have PvE penalties - severe ones by all means - and not be a way of letting in open world PvP through the back door thereby requiring those who want no part in PvP to have to forego PvE content in PvE areas. PvPers may not get that, but fortunately ZOS now do. Campaign for the Enforcement part of the Justice System to be implemented in Cyrodiil and Imperial City and you'll have my full and active support.

Acrolas · June 2016

DaveMoeDee · June 2016

Why do people say things like "afraid" of forced PvP. I'm not afraid of it. I don't want that game. I didn't buy this game for that and it does not sound like fun. I can enjoy Cyrodiil or IC with an fun group, but I've never been interested in games like Mortal Combat, Counterstrike, Team Fortress, COD, Battlefield, etc. I do like coop. I am also fine with flags so long as not turning the flag on has zero impact on my current ability to steal things and accumulate bounty.

They didn't "promise" the PvP Justice System. They said they were developing it and it was on there road map. That is not a promise. If you thought that was a promise, you don't understand software development. If they had it in a contract, it would be a promise. Otherwise, software ends up being what they can implement reasonably.

I agree with those who say that it was irresponsible to mention this before the design and coding were fleshed out. This is why mobile device manufacturers are so secretive. They have a lot of plans that they scrap because the engineering doesn't pan out. They choose being secretive over disappointing people.

There is a term "vaporware". The history of software is full of promises that failed to be implemented. I do not think that an MMO should try to entice people to stay by hinting that things that aren't fleshed out enough to ensure they will get made. This is why we now see ESO designers being coy about answers in panel discussions. They learned their lesson. Even if people complain that they want to know what is coming up, it is better to make them wait than to announce things far from ready for prime time. It is one thing to announce a DLC zone that they can obviously make happen by stitching together quests, locations and NPC. Games systems are a lot trickier.

The Justice PvP is very difficult to design because of its lack of symmetry. Can a thief gank a person flagged as a bounty hunter by purposefully getting bounty so they can jump the person? Would we see 20v1 in the justice system? If I am not using the flag and get attacked by guards when I steal something, does the person flagged for PvP get approached by guards when they have bounty such that the thief must fight both guards and players while the bounty hunters only fight thieves? How will they have to scale zones to allow this system? What additional value do thieves get from taking part in the justice system? Would that additional value lead to two friends farming the justice system by one letting the other kill them repeatedly? How would instances work? What would be the impact on server performance and latency with so many people potentially fighting each other in a PvE zone? When can people turn the flag on/off? Can people gain more gold by stealing and turning the PvP flag on and off to maximize gain while minimizing risk?

I would love to see a way for people to have small-scale PvP, but this is not the place for it.

It also makes no sense to have this enforcer system in Cyrodiil because Cyrodiil PvP is alliance based and focused on the war. It would make as much sense as if during a battle against white walkers, one for lord Night's Watch attacking a former thief Night's Watch for crimes the latter did but was never convicted of. None of that matters against the greater enemy--which is why they send criminals to the Night's Watch in the first place.

Taisynn · June 2016

Introduce it into Cyrodil and Imperial City. Hell, make a new DLC and zone just for PVP aspects like the "complete justice system." But please leave current questing areas alone.

I enjoy the voiced quests; I do not want to be killed / ganked just because I want to experience the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood storylines.

Open World PVP, even if it's the Justice System, breaks my immersion into the stories portrayed by ZOS. The last thing I want is to be enjoying a conversation with an NPC and then be shot in the back by some jerk who likes to camp questing areas just wanting for some poor sap with a bounty to show up.

Forcing one group of players to be part of another group removes the relaxing aspect of ESO for me... It removes consent, and after a long day of dealing with people, sometimes I just want to quest and do what the quests tell me to.

And why are you all so defensive about NPC's in the game

They aren't real and they come back in 5 minutes anyway.

Xylphan · June 2016

Arato wrote: »

I'm not a big PVP player at all, but I've wanted the enforcer system ever since it was announced. I think it was the most creative way of making a fair world PVP system I've ever seen in a game, don't want to get ganked? Obey the law, don't be an outlaw. I'd like to know what kinds of exploits they were talking about because to me, all they really had to do was make it so that you don't get flagged for PVP unless your bounty is high enough that Guards attack you on sight. If you want to be extra safe about it, make it so that your bounty has to reach 1000g before players can kill you. There's ways of reducing your bounty so that it's an essentially voluntary PVP system.

One thing I've read that I think is wholly unnecessary is the enforcer guild and mutually exclusive aspect between being an enforcer and being a criminal. Anyone should be able to attack someone with an appropriate sized bounty anywhere except Outlaw Refuges.

If you this is the depth to which you've explored how such a system could be exploited, then you really haven't thought enough.

They did think about. A lot. That's why they came to the conclusion that they did. The cost and complexity of implementing/maintaining such a system would far exceed any potential revenue, not to mention the lost revenue if the system fails to work properly.

The have issues just with their DESIGNATED PvP zones and those are a lot less complicated than any justice system implementation. They made the right decision.

Divinius · June 2016

It got scrapped. End of story.

We really don't need yet another thread on the topic.

DaveMoeDee · June 2016

What would be really sad is launching this and then noticing that no one steals anything any more and the wannabe PvE gankers are just standing around with nothing happening. You end up killing the old justice system with the new system being no fun apart from people who do it on purpose because they want to duel a friend -- which wouldn't even be about about justice and could be better handled with a feature for dueling that has no connecting to in-game rewards.

Osteos · June 2016

Taisynn wrote: »

Open World PVP, even if it's the Justice System, breaks my immersion into the stories portrayed by ZOS. The last thing I want is to be enjoying a conversation with an NPC and then be shot in the back by some jerk who likes to camp questing areas just wanting for some poor sap with a bounty to show up.

Why is your immersion more important then someone elses? What if it ruins their immersion to have you murder an npc in eyesight while they are trying to quest?

Believe me I don't like open world pvp. I don't want to be killed while I'm questing but there's a difference between being ganked while talking to Lady Laurent about her current predicament and being on a murder spree in town. There are lots of passives in the legerdemain and thieves guild lines to help lower bounties, lessen fines and help you escape the law.

Being killed by a player is not as bad as some of you make it out to be.

arena25 · June 2016

MY TURN!

I think maybe we should do an experiment on the PTS before officially scrapping it...it's contentious content like this that makes the PTS viable, heck, that's what the PTS is for, right?

I mean, you don't know how something will go unless you TRY IT! Put it on the PTS, and if via the resulting test results in imbalances like ZoS described in their Year Ahead article, then you can scrap the content and explain why in a more detailed letter. You don't know how something will go unless you try it. A lot of hype has built up over this, so scrapping it now without at least testing and providing some numbers to show why it's a bad idea is a really bad move.

Dubhliam · June 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

There's absolutely no reason why "same faction good guy and bad guy" enforcement shouldn't be added to the Justice System - in PvP areas. However, no PvPer wants it in Cyrodiil or Imperial City, they want it in PvE areas for reasons that are all too obvious and which lie behind the decision not to go down that route.

You would have to rack up a bounty for someone to be able to kill you in a PVE area, and not just a "I accidentally clicked on a loaf of bread while trying to talk to an NPC" but a "I just murdered 3 people in broad daylight in front of the entire mage's guild and skipped town to avoid the guards"

To get attacked in PVP in a PVE area under the justice system, you would have to KNOWINGLY be breaking the law and deserve to be hunted down and executed.

There'd be no reasons to complain you were ganked, because you can either obey the law, or keep your bounty low.

I'm not a PVP player or a ganker, but I want the PVP portion of the justice system in game because I think it's creative, fair, and a good way to implement open world PVP that doesn't prey upon PVE players.

Not to mention, when the PVP elements are added in, the NPC guards will be rebalanced, making them not god mode.

This is precisely why PvP in PvE areas is wrong. You want to have it so that PvEers have a choice of not participating fully in PvE content or else being forced to PvP. I've nothing against PvP, but keep it in PvP areas. PvE crimes in PvE areas should have PvE penalties - severe ones by all means - and not be a way of letting in open world PvP through the back door thereby requiring those who want no part in PvP to have to forego PvE content in PvE areas. PvPers may not get that, but fortunately ZOS now do. Campaign for the Enforcement part of the Justice System to be implemented in Cyrodiil and Imperial City and you'll have my full and active support.

If we consider that players will get flagged for PvP when reaching lvl 3 bounty (and PvP Justice can be implemented in a lot of other ways) that does not mean players cannot participate in the Justice system.
They just have to be good at it.

There are so many tools at your disposal for being a better outlaw, and erasing bounty:
-Clemency
-Swiftly Forgotten
-Veil of Shadows
-Light Fingers
-Bounty erasing tickets
etc.

There is no excuse for having high bounty other than: you suck at being an outlaw.