ZOS... Is CP really account based ? Then stop punishing Alts please !

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I think a few are missing the point.
Is the system character based or account based ?
Not whether you think the system should be character based.

If its account based....then as long as you have 1x Vet...then CP should progress no matter what character you play as its account based and not character based.

As soon as you say...this character doesnt earn CP (even as a veteran).....then it character based and not account based.

Enlightenment has a limit.
Its designed for short term players with limited hours so they dont get left behind.
But thanks for those suggestion.
I will try to make more use of that.

The problem is not the hours I Put in.
The problem is I am not rewarded for the hours I put in as a veteran using 1-50 alts.

@runs thanks for the calcs.

@Rune_Relic

-CP progression is account based limited to level 50 characters only
-CP use is account based for level 1-50 characters
-CPs aren't generated by playing levels 1-49 characters and this is not a bug.

ZOS thinks they are doing the right thing by attempting to merge the VR system into the CP system.

binho · June 2016

Why don't people play the no CP campaign instead of complaining so much about CP?!

Some people are never happy lol

Autolycus · June 2016

binho wrote: »

Why don't people play the no CP campaign instead of complaining so much about CP?!

Some people are never happy lol

Because this isn't an pvp post. This is a broader suggestion that is non-specific to form of content.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

binho wrote: »

Why don't people play the no CP campaign instead of complaining so much about CP?!

Some people are never happy lol

@binho

Because the non-cp campaign allows CP gear so what's the point?

It's no longer a truly non CP campaign cause technically all VR ranging from VR1-16 are gifted VRx (highest collectively)

So it's only a non cp passive campaign but players will drastically vary due to actual skill progression.

This VR conversion is not the best way to "remove VR" as respects to non CP environments.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

The problem is the power gap between low CP and high CP is immense and power creep is now becoming a massive issue.
So maxing out CP is now fundamentally a requirement if you want to compete.
ie participate in the game on an equal footing.
When you see players with 30000+ health & 50000+ magicka, you know how thats going to end.

Their burst consists of 20 chained hits before they even thinking about resource management.
And if they havent killed you by then they'd probably never kill anyone...especially with power scaling off that much magicka and the DPS that results from it.
..........

But criticising game balance is not the point of this thread.
My point is the Champion system the way it currently works.

I am a Vet player. As long as I play my veteran character I amass more CP and progress to the cap.
However....if I play my alts....I get ZERO CP.
So veteran progress is account wide...but if you are a vet playing alts....it isnt account wide !?!??!

I can put 100s of hours into those alts and get 0CP for all that effort even though I am a VET.
Yet someone with 1 vet character can continue to play that for the same 100s of hours and be gaining CP every second uninterrupted.
Even though we are both vets putting in the same amount of time.

My only option (realistically) is to speed grind any alts to vet level ASAP and miss out on all the story line and content.
ZOS....Is that really your idea ? Ignore your 1-50 content to be able to play your 50+ content.
Should gaining a wide level of deep experience across multiple builds not be rewarded rather than punished ?
Should savouring the content you poured 100s of man hours into not be encouraged ?

SOLUTION.
Can you PLEASE make CP continue to progress with any character rather than only 50+...once you have reached Veteran level on at least one character on your account.
Frankly I am not personally bothered if you disable CP on level 1-50 characters either as 1-50 PvP is non CP anyway.
But the inability to progress CP on any 1-50 alt is a penalty with no reason to exist (except zero vet characters).
Not that I can fathom on an account wide system anyway.

It is a good idea and I understand the concern. I could fairly easily grind a character to 50 as well, but nowadays if I'm going to play a low level character I intend to use them (generally) for pvp unless I find I need skill points or something (in which case I will skyshard in Cyrodiil/IC first so I can at least get some pvp while doing the pve). That's really the only thing that would provoke me to not fast level a character in the current environment, and I see the concern. It soaks up some of the fun of reliving the content, or simply reliving it in a different way. The only problem I see with your suggestion is that pre-50 exp is so low that champion earnings might be negligible anyway, just like leveling vampire creeps along very slowly til you hit at least mid 20's if I recall rightly (even though I've gotten vampire at level 6 before). I suppose the point is that you'd at least be earning SOMETHING, even if it is not as efficient as playing a true vet character.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

...yet you want a quicker method.
There's just too much contradiction here to bother arguing. Choices have consequences. If wasting extra time on low level content isn't helping you learn to play, you probably shouldn't be getting rewarded for it.

If you spend 10 extra hours studying and you get an F, you're not studying right. The solution isn't to give you a piece of an A for every hour you studied. The solution is to prioritize, focus, and nail the *** test.

This is a little harsh, and I think misses the OP's point. He likes to savor the game, and the rewards push you as far as possible from doing that (a flaw I might add of many games). The irony here is that almost every Themepark-mmo does it, thereby wasting many hours of their content and own blood, sweat and tears. I definitely don't think running around in circles spamming hordes of zombies to go to 50 faster makes you better, it just means you want to fast forward to the part of the movie you want to see. I think the better argument you could make here is that the player taking his time is getting his reward, namely the enjoyment of the content. I still see his point though and I certainly understand it. You completely missed his point and managed to insult him in the process. If this were a sandbox game it would make more sense to promote such a grind because often those games are built around grind'n'pvp'nbuilding. Its a totally different mindset. I'd love to see more sandbox elements in ESO though.

AlnilamE · June 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Why don't people play the no CP campaign instead of complaining so much about CP?!

Some people are never happy lol

@binho

Because the non-cp campaign allows CP gear so what's the point?

It's no longer a truly non CP campaign cause technically all VR ranging from VR1-16 are gifted VRx (highest collectively)

So it's only a non cp passive campaign but players will drastically vary due to actual skill progression.

This VR conversion is not the best way to "remove VR" as respects to non CP environments.

How is that different from before, though? You could wear v16 gear in Azura's. If you weren't v16 you were scaled and your gear was taken into account.

I'm not sure what has changed there?

KingYogi415 · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The CP has been fitted for cusuals,

Your enlightenment stacks up 12 times and can be grinded out in 45 mins.

You would have not survived this before orsinium.

No wonder ZOS seems to mess things up every update, look at constant nonsense they have to deal with!

Sighs. I love you too.

So is this account wide or not ?
I havent asked anything about the fastest way to grind CP.
I have asked for the ability to gain some AP while playing the game on something other than a Vet.
ie. a Vet player making and developing alts.

Does it really matter if I am doing 100 hours of questing on a vet character or 100 hours of questing on a non-vet.
Questing content is not exactly that challenging is it ?
Thats rhetorical by the way.

Yes, all CP is account wide! I find it hard to believe you have played more than 100 hours.

You will get to 160cp by questing through all the vet zones. The way enlightenment works you only have to play your vet character once every 10 days, If that is too much you won't get or deserve more CP!

You can buy max level characters in WoW now, that sounds like it would interest you!

I only use about 100CP when I quest, the main quest was designed to be played through with no CP at all.

Cheers!

WanderingJarlPuncher · June 2016

i dont mind grinding im almost at 400 cp and i dgaf about grinding. what i disapprove are the guys that only accept 501 cp in a silver pledge or the we must be the best who spit on everythig that isnt 501 with best in slot and max dps. no way in hell can a new player make 40k dps alone when he dings lvl 45-cp10. THATS where the game is losing, peopel complained and ranted so much. [snip]

[snip] before they made the cap to 501 we had 10800 champion points to grind AKA 25 000 hours of grind. but you guys complained so much about it that they had to nerf it down because grinding all those Champion points was "too hard". [snip]

[snip] if this game is tryed to copy EQ they failed big time. gears in EQ isnt vet level or cp rank scaled its max level and thats it. but hey what you guys wouldnt do for a little World of Welfare in your game. [snip]

[edited for flaming/profanity]

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO · June 2016

You people literally want everything handed to you...in an MMO for goodness sake.

The change ZOS made has already encouraged the creation of ults way more by making CP account wide.

Champion Points are supposed to replace Veteran Ranks (i.e., you ONLY earn them after you have leveled 1-50). Why the hell would they let you gain CP on a level 20 toon?

This game has been out forever so you've all had a ton of time to get max CP.

AshTal · June 2016

If I understand correctly I support this - I am maxed out on CP points but when levelling an alt it seems stupid I can't gain cp points. I would like to see
1) Account wide achievements
2) Account wide titles
3) account wide alliance war ranks.

WanderingJarlPuncher · June 2016

@AshTal so by your logic , crafting shoudl skills should be account Wise? fighters guild, legedermain thief guild and so on shoudl all be account wide? dear lord you wana play a game or Watch a movie that you can click on? if yes go on twitch theres plenty of that

WanderingJarlPuncher · June 2016

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »

You people literally want everything handed to you...in an MMO for goodness sake.

The change ZOS made has already encouraged the creation of ults way more by making CP account wide.

Champion Points are supposed to replace Veteran Ranks (i.e., you ONLY earn them after you have leveled 1-50). Why the hell would they let you gain CP on a level 20 toon?

This game has been out forever so you've all had a ton of time to get max CP.

and for the few 4-5k new players, 3 months max, who are constantly being trolled around, ripped off and unable to accomplish *** cuz the 3% elite is taking control of the game because nothing is made exept grind..... i started eso 2 years ago to go through the story.... i did main scenario, guilds civil war then ended up in craglorn.. vr1 to vr14 in 3 days then raid raid raid raid raid raid raid raid raid raid. then champion points came in 10800 cp to be grinded. then peopel complained so bethamax and zenitard made thosea ccount wide and nerfed them to 501 cuz it was to hard. new players cant be blamed cuz lame ass players *** everything up. i made a NB some may even have grouped with it , took me Under a day to get it 50 by grinding hes decked out hunding gladiator agility and kick 35-40k aoe dps non stop in grind spots. now all i have to do left is to plow thourhg content cuz the game has been so dumbed down that nothing is fun. its just like playing skyrim BUT with a starter chest with OP written on it every 10 levels.

The_Rooster24 · June 2016

Dear OP, you might love to play the game for the rich narrative and storylines. I myself certainly enjoyed then the first time through! With that being said your request is very nonsensical. Even if you could get cp playing 1-49 alts you would not gain more than 2 cp. So why don't you experience all of the factions on your vet toons everytime that xp alone would do you a great deal. Much more than gaining cp 1-49. If you don't want to grind mobs to gain cp that's fine, but to say that you deserve cp and you don't want to put in the time is laughable at best. If you complete all of the quests on a vet character everytime they become level 50 you will gain a large amount of cp, although it will be much slower. That is your choice. If you choose to be left behind by people willing to put in time grinding then you should deal with it. Not everyone enjoys questing over and over again, but you do so do it, and stop complaining.

Psyonico · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I
The problem is not the hours I Put in.
The problem is I am not rewarded for the hours I put in as a veteran using 1-50 alts.

*you* are not the veteran, your character is. I've never understood why CP are account wide, never complained, but never understood.

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO · June 2016

No stop with ur casual request

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

binho wrote: »

Why don't people play the no CP campaign instead of complaining so much about CP?!

Some people are never happy lol

@binho

Because the non-cp campaign allows CP gear so what's the point?

It's no longer a truly non CP campaign cause technically all VR ranging from VR1-16 are gifted VRx (highest collectively)

So it's only a non cp passive campaign but players will drastically vary due to actual skill progression.

This VR conversion is not the best way to "remove VR" as respects to non CP environments.

How is that different from before, though? You could wear v16 gear in Azura's. If you weren't v16 you were scaled and your gear was taken into account.

I'm not sure what has changed there?

@AlnilamE
It's very different than before because if you were VR16 then sure you were higher but if not you had lesser and were scaled.

It's a big difference from now to then

starkerealm · June 2016

sadownik wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

Correct.

Did you do the math? I didnt but i think for 1-49 you will get 1 prehaps 2 cp?

If you're under CR200, it's probably slightly more significant. Somewhere around 20-30. If you're at 300 or higher, you're looking at under 10.

newtinmpls · June 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It's an easy system.
From levels 1 to 50, you gain levels for your earned XP.
From levels 50 onward, you gain champion points instead.

The levels are character specific.
The champion points are account wide.

No reason to ask to gain -both- levels AND Champion Points... that'd be a bit greedy, don'tcha think?

...

You ... you mature player you!

ContraTempo · June 2016

WldKarde wrote: »

I see your point OP as I love to create alts myself.

What does OP mean here? I know it as Over Powered but I've been seeing it a lot in other contexts where that makes no sense.

Elsonso · June 2016

In this context: Original Post/Original Poster

@Neizir has not included this abbreviation in his list, but for other terms, see this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/136290/unofficial-eso-slang-and-abbreviation-dictionary/p1

Sausage · June 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

It was meant to encourage people to do alts if they can use their CPs, if people do more alts, thats only good in my book. I remember when I was leveling my DK I enjoyed my CPs as I was able to solo public dungeons etc.

RocDonald · June 2016

Personally, I usually only grind CP during my enlightened state. When I burn that up that's when I work on my alt/s.

newtinmpls · June 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

WldKarde wrote: »

I see your point OP as I love to create alts myself.

What does OP mean here? I know it as Over Powered but I've been seeing it a lot in other contexts where that makes no sense.

Original Poster

notimetocare · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

The problem is the power gap between low CP and high CP is immense and power creep is now becoming a massive issue.
So maxing out CP is now fundamentally a requirement if you want to compete.
ie participate in the game on an equal footing.
When you see players with 30000+ health & 50000+ magicka, you know how thats going to end.

Their burst consists of 20 chained hits before they even thinking about resource management.
And if they havent killed you by then they'd probably never kill anyone...especially with power scaling off that much magicka and the DPS that results from it.
..........

But criticising game balance is not the point of this thread.
My point is the Champion system the way it currently works.

I am a Vet player. As long as I play my veteran character I amass more CP and progress to the cap.
However....if I play my alts....I get ZERO CP.
So veteran progress is account wide...but if you are a vet playing alts....it isnt account wide !?!??!

I can put 100s of hours into those alts and get 0CP for all that effort even though I am a VET.
Yet someone with 1 vet character can continue to play that for the same 100s of hours and be gaining CP every second uninterrupted.
Even though we are both vets putting in the same amount of time.

My only option (realistically) is to speed grind any alts to vet level ASAP and miss out on all the story line and content.
ZOS....Is that really your idea ? Ignore your 1-50 content to be able to play your 50+ content.
Should gaining a wide level of deep experience across multiple builds not be rewarded rather than punished ?
Should savouring the content you poured 100s of man hours into not be encouraged ?

SOLUTION.
Can you PLEASE make CP continue to progress with any character rather than only 50+...once you have reached Veteran level on at least one character on your account.
Frankly I am not personally bothered if you disable CP on level 1-50 characters either as 1-50 PvP is non CP anyway.
But the inability to progress CP on any 1-50 alt is a penalty with no reason to exist (except zero vet characters).
Not that I can fathom on an account wide system anyway.

I think you overestimate the amount of XP you get leveling an alt... 100hrs on lowbies is a few hours on a max...
Almost every game with an endgame leveling system excluding lvling alts from this. It is nothing new and works just fine...
You also overestimate CP effect on raw stats as well (CP is valuable for dmg, but raw stats is not as large as you think)

Solution: Quit complaining about the fact that you are not earning CP because you are not doing endgame content.

Duiwel · June 2016

OP if you were VET as you put it you would be @ CP cap.

You are not VET your chars are VET

Secondly the current way CP works does anything BUT punish alts, in fact it assists them.

Your points about ppl with low CP vs ppl with high CP is irrelevant because Azura Star and Blackwater blade exist for people like you.

Thirdly you claim that the devs and people with high CP have done something wrong, merely because you CHOOSE to play new alts all the time instead of levelling up a few chars and getting max CP then leveling more alts. This is your choice, if you want to play like that fine.

It's like in life you get 2 kinds of people:

1 Goes to college / university after school, builds a career and only then starts creating a family
The other starts a family straight out of school and doesn't further any education.

What's the difference? Their choices...

Don't cry if you choose to play a certain playstyle, how many alts do you have? I have 2 acc's and 10 chars on my main acc and I am sure you have less alts than that and I managed to do just fine.

Are you actually doing things to gain skills or are you aimlessly farming low lvl mats, fishing and just mucking about? Because once again your choice to do that instead of gaining exp and levels.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

What the OP is suggesting would create huge problems under certain scenarios. I have an alternate account that I am deliberately NOT grinding CP on, so I can keep one alt at CP1 or as close to it as possible. The purpose of this is to have a toon I can use to underlevel Vet dungeons down as low as possible. Under the OP's scheme, I would NEVER be able to level up any other toons on that account, because I would gain unwanted CP on the main toon.

Just because you have 500cp does not mean you have to allot a single champion point on any character.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The CP has been fitted for cusuals,

Your enlightenment stacks up 12 times and can be grinded out in 45 mins.

You would have not survived this before orsinium.

No wonder ZOS seems to mess things up every update, look at constant nonsense they have to deal with!

Sighs. I love you too.

So is this account wide or not ?
I havent asked anything about the fastest way to grind CP.
I have asked for the ability to gain some AP while playing the game on something other than a Vet.
ie. a Vet player making and developing alts.

Does it really matter if I am doing 100 hours of questing on a vet character or 100 hours of questing on a non-vet.
Questing content is not exactly that challenging is it ?
Thats rhetorical by the way.

Yes, all CP is account wide! I find it hard to believe you have played more than 100 hours.

You will get to 160cp by questing through all the vet zones. The way enlightenment works you only have to play your vet character once every 10 days, If that is too much you won't get or deserve more CP!

You can buy max level characters in WoW now, that sounds like it would interest you!

I only use about 100CP when I quest, the main quest was designed to be played through with no CP at all.

Cheers!

The OP went right over your head didn't it

How does being rewarded for putting hours into the game translate to ....give me my shinies without time and effort ?

The whole point was I was putting time and effort in to the game an not getting reward.
Unlike those playing vet characters.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

OP if you were VET as you put it you would be @ CP cap.

You are not VET your chars are VET

Secondly the current way CP works does anything BUT punish alts, in fact it assists them.

Your points about ppl with low CP vs ppl with high CP is irrelevant because Azura Star and Blackwater blade exist for people like you.

Thirdly you claim that the devs and people with high CP have done something wrong, merely because you CHOOSE to play new alts all the time instead of levelling up a few chars and getting max CP then leveling more alts. This is your choice, if you want to play like that fine.

It's like in life you get 2 kinds of people:

1 Goes to college / university after school, builds a career and only then starts creating a family
The other starts a family straight out of school and doesn't further any education.

What's the difference? Their choices...

Don't cry if you choose to play a certain playstyle, how many alts do you have? I have 2 acc's and 10 chars on my main acc and I am sure you have less alts than that and I managed to do just fine.

Are you actually doing things to gain skills or are you aimlessly farming low lvl mats, fishing and just mucking about? Because once again your choice to do that instead of gaining exp and levels.

So its character based then not account based....I have a Vet character.
That is the only stipulation for an account based system...to have 1 vet character.
Nothing more nothing less.
Once my account has reached veteran status on any character it is eligible for champion system.

Stop and think for just one second.
Why are any of my non-vet characters allowed to use any and benefit from any champion points ?
According to you they aren't vets so they aren't eligible to receive rewards from the system.
Hypocritical much ?

option 1.
Nonvet characters are not part of the champion system
ie they gain no CP and they receive no CP

option 2.
nonvet characters are part of the champion system
ie they gain cp and they receive cp.

solangesimondsen · September 2016

I kind of wish cp didn't apply to my alts. I left the game about a year ago and came back a couple of weeks ago. I had my main with 10cp and 3 alts with the same. So I jumped in on my main, leveled her up to 140cp so far. But now those 3 alts are kinda in over their heads. Not enough skill lines opened up to really play against the content. I am sure it will be fine in the long run, but it is kind of a drag to have the cp points and not the skills to match. I suppose I'll respec them when they catch up, but right now they die a lot. lol