Rinaldo's Sorcerer Battle Mage Build for Dark Brotherhood

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

Interesting build. I'm thinking of tanking up my stamina sorc for the next update too, so I'll just have to wait and see what comes of it. Meanwhile all the "elite" players will wait for the next cookie cutter "meta" to copy skill for skill so that they can continue to tout their "skills".

Thanks, i appreciate the kind words! Hope your tank build rocks!

Minno · June 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose

.

Minno · June 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Diozaels wrote: »

This build must be a lie. Haven't you heard Sorcs are completely unplayable? With shields and crit surge in their current stage Sorcs are just there to be DPS meters for Nightblades!

#Sorclivesmatter

Glad to see someone actually adapting! Sweet build!

OMG! Whiner sorcs are fine!

I'm sure this is fine in big groups, but solo? Most nightblades can can take this apart in five seconds.

* 32K Magicka and 2400 spell damage means your frags hits like a wet noodle.

* LOL pets. Stun and LOS one and they sort of 'forget' where the enemy is. They're dumb as rocks. Greater Atronach doesn't even move, just walk away from it.

* That 'healing clanfear' can be two-shot easily (hey, but not one shot anymore!), and you can bet a good enemy won't let you recast it. I wouldn't.

I'm happy if some of you can make this work, but it's not for me. None of the people I duel or fight against would let me survive in this.

Translated: I wont deign to try this because I'm too super elite to try something that myself or my circle of elite buddies didn't think of.

I don't need my elite friends to laugh at this, I fought a heavy armor pet build last night and destroyed it. It probably wasn't exactly this build, but close enough.

I Mined up and LOS'ed the brain dead useless clanfear, then killed off the sorc in a couple of shots with 42K Magicka, 3800 spell damage, and stacked armor pen.

Any other build would have beat me. I was (stupidly) repairing a wall from the outside when she opened up on me FFS. I lost her pets behind a rock, because a Rock is smarter than ZOS AI programming.

Later, I fought two other multi-pet builds last night on Azuras. 36K Magicka. 1300 regen. Same spell damage, slightly less armor pen, and no shattering CP. It was the exact same story every time. One fight I got four or five enemy pets to waste their time fighting a storm atronach, while I laughed and killed both of their masters. The pet AI is baaaaaaaaaad.

If this build works for you, great. I'm glad. I take offense to the idea that this build 'fixes' what's wrong with the sorc class, and that we're just scared to try new things. Forget pets.

This build won't kill you with the pet; that's just his heal and to *** off players that try to run away.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

Yes the pet has very little to do with it. The passives and heal are nice, but you cna easily swap that for a resto staff and Ward and use a diff skill on the other bar if you like.

Combing 200 Spell Damage from Wrath + 517 from Kena + 20% from Major Sorcery + 20% Empower from MOTG in conjunction with Power Overload is where this build shines...at Gold Quality Armor you will be beyond both caps in mitigation, with super cheap block, an 8K+ Ward when you need it, and able to throw out ridiclious damaging Overload Light Attacks while absorb meteors and most other spells with Ball of Lighting and Reflecting back other peoples Overloads, Frags, Etc

its a defensive build that makes the Sorc tanky and leans on Overload just like Ezareth did to kill people...and trust me...its a very viable build open world once you get used to playing. If you don't like the Pet, switch it out for a Resto as i said in the video, its still effective even without the Pet its just fine.

Again thanks everyone for the kind words.

Sandman929 · June 2016

Have you considered (or tried) Pelinials Aptitude for a 5 piece heavy? It's a set that looked interesting to me for a jack-of-all-trades non-traditional mage build.

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery

(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

It won't help with any max damage goals, but I think there's potential for big sustains if you can alternate between spending your magicka pool and stamina pool to keep up constant damage...put some of the S&B skills to use.

cschwingeb14_ESO · June 2016

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose .

That 100 points at best provides about 14% damage mitigation from physical damage (ie, going from 42%mitigation to 50%mitigation). Given the low amount of hardy, it's not a good allocation. I wouldn't recommend 100 in hardy either. But a better balance of quick recovery, hardy, crit resist and +armor would probably help.

Or is there a really hidden secret/bug related to high armor rating?

Minno · June 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose .

That 100 points at best provides about 14% damage mitigation from physical damage (ie, going from 42%mitigation to 50%mitigation). Given the low amount of hardy, it's not a good allocation. I wouldn't recommend 100 in hardy either. But a better balance of quick recovery, hardy, crit resist and +armor would probably help.

Or is there a really hidden secret/bug related to high armor rating?

It's one fragment of a bigger, game legal, mitigation picture. On its own it's useless, but so are most of the CP stars.

I won't say much else, since I'd like my enemies to not know.

The_Great_Maldini · June 2016

Minno wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose .

That 100 points at best provides about 14% damage mitigation from physical damage (ie, going from 42%mitigation to 50%mitigation). Given the low amount of hardy, it's not a good allocation. I wouldn't recommend 100 in hardy either. But a better balance of quick recovery, hardy, crit resist and +armor would probably help.

Or is there a really hidden secret/bug related to high armor rating?

It's one fragment of a bigger, game legal, mitigation picture. On its own it's useless, but so are most of the CP stars.

I won't say much else, since I'd like my enemies to not know.

The whole purpose as he said in the video is basically negate Major Fracture, on which pretty much all NBs rely to improve their DPS.

Minno · June 2016

The_Great_Maldini wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose .

That 100 points at best provides about 14% damage mitigation from physical damage (ie, going from 42%mitigation to 50%mitigation). Given the low amount of hardy, it's not a good allocation. I wouldn't recommend 100 in hardy either. But a better balance of quick recovery, hardy, crit resist and +armor would probably help.

Or is there a really hidden secret/bug related to high armor rating?

It's one fragment of a bigger, game legal, mitigation picture. On its own it's useless, but so are most of the CP stars.

I won't say much else, since I'd like my enemies to not know.

The whole purpose as he said in the video is basically negate Major Fracture, on which pretty much all NBs rely to improve their DPS.

Yea that's one part.

Vangy · June 2016

@RinaldoGandolphi

Damn son. This is one sweet build haha. 23k resists, almost 2k impen rating, almost 30k health with 32k mag and 18k stam. This play style is exactly like my heavy armour DK with comparable stats. Its SO GOOD to see some sorcs at least trying to be original and come up with balanced toons. Coupled with wrath and kena too.

Most of them right off the bat dont even want to try this cos oooh 32k mag 2k spell power you hit like spaghetti wah wah wah. Sorcs are unplayable wah wah wah. All too used to running 3k+ spell power with 40k mag with 0 impen and in 5-7 light walking paper bags who got away with it cos hardened was so broken before.

For comparison, my DK runs 30k health, 25k resists and 2.7k weapon power fully buffed with 31k stam and 15k mag with 2.5k impen. I kill people just fine and im sure this build does just as well.

OreoTheDj · June 2016

Whats on the overload bar?

Minno · June 2016

OreoTheDj wrote: »

Whats on the overload bar?

I've I'm not mistaken, it's the S+B bar.

OreoTheDj · June 2016

Minno wrote: »

OreoTheDj wrote: »

Whats on the overload bar?

I've I'm not mistaken, it's the S+B bar.

i mean the abilities when in overload

Cambion · June 2016

This is very similar to my original sorcerer build I had when the game first came out on PS4.

Thank you for sharing.

Ishammael · June 2016

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

100 pts in Heavy Armor CP? This needs to be added to the dmg reduction, ASAP. The HA CP is strictly inferior to the dmg reduction ones.

Otherwise I appreciate your build very much for thinking outside the sorc box.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a hidden secret regarding the resistance raiting of this build. That 100 CP in heavy armor serves a special purpose .

Unless its bugged, I see no reason for it.

I can buy 25% physical damage reduction with another CP.

At best, 5280 phys resist is 5280/650 = 8.1% dmg reduction

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

I'll try my best to explain the Heavy Armor focus

Light., Meduim, and Heavy Armor Focus gives 5281 Armor
Major Resolve and Major Ward give 5281 Armor and Spell Resist
Major Fracture and Major Breech reduces your Armor by 5281 and Spell Resist by 5281 respectively
100 points in either Spell Erosion or Piercing gives 5281 Armor and Spell Pen respectively

The Average Stamina Build has 5, 160 Armor and Spell Pen with Sharpened Weapons and another 1-1.5k or so from CP points so roughly around and with a Maul or Mace would be right around 7.2k Penetration give or take.

If my Armor was Gold i'd be right around 32-33k Armor BEFORE buffs(Major Resoplve and Major Ward)

So lets see what happens now:

32k + 5281 armor = 37,281(With Major Resolve) armor - 7,200(Major Fracture and Pen) = 29,800 armor

So

Using the Formula

(37,281-7,200)/(66*10) = 45.5% Damage mitigation,

now add in the 12% reduction from Hardy = 57% Physical damage reduction which is more then Hardy can give you at 100 points in it. If the meta shifts to Magicka you can just switch it up.

There is a reason behind the madness i assure you

This also allows you to "triple dip" damage mitgations, but only heavy armor can do it.

Your Armor rating reduces the damage you take from crits, so does hardy, and so does resistant...you now have 3 sources of reducing damage instead of 2. Furthermore, that 100 points in Heavy Armor focus means your Boundless Storm, Volatile Armor, Shadow Barrier, and Restoring Focus buff is not canceled out by your enemy.

The Heavy Armor focus "Works in conjunction with your Heavy Armor" to reduce damage instead of working independently alone. You will very very hard pressed to see crits over 4k damage doing it this way, even if your enemy has 67 point sin piercing and inflicts you with major Fracture, with gold Armor you will be so very close to 50% total mitigation.

This is close to being as good as Nirnhoned was back in the day against Magicka Builds but against Stamina Builds...very close.

Heavy Armor focus alone isn;'t that great, but combined with other factors ends up being better then Hardy...As i shown in the math above, having around 29,800 Armor after all Penetration is factored + a 12% reduction to Physical Damage from Hardy nerfs Stamina Builds damage hardcore against someone set up this way.

Also the 3 passives you unlock in the Lord Tree(Field Physcian, Infusion, and Revival) are very good for small and group play.

This is just what i found reduced the damage i took the most, YMMV

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2016

Oh your Overload Bar could be something like

Clanfear(Defensive Run if using Resto), Daedric Mines, Entropy, Hardened Ward, Ball of Lighting

You cna be kinda flexible there, just run what you feel comfortable with.

OGLezard · June 2016

anyone willing to donate black rose pieces

Ishammael · June 2016

~660 armor is equivalent to 1% dmg reduction. 5280 armor is therefore ~8% dmg reduction.

According to equations above, dmg reduction from CPs adds to dmg reduction from armor. If this is true, the +armor CP is strictly inferior to dmg reduction CP: 100 pts in phys resist is 25% dmg reduction which is 3x 8%!!!

If the dmg reduction from CPs and armor multiply, the story will be different., I.e. you would want to increase them in lockstep.

Unless something wonky is happening under the hood, your premise of increasing armor should be incorrect based on additive dmg reduction. I will test this weekend.

OreoTheDj · June 2016

Yeah i figured it was flexible. .

twistedmonk · July 2016

No offense to OP. It's good that people are trying different builds and if you can get it work for you, awesome!

However, the pet AI is really bad.

Pet line should just be removed from sorc altogether. When they were talking about spellcrafting 2 years ago, they were talking about a Conjuring line - like what the elder scrolls games had - that had pets. So maybe they were thinking of getting rid of pets for sorcs back then. But that was 2 years ago, and ZOS doesn't even mention spellcrafting anymore.

I mean - you still have to have pets on both bars...like wtf really? 2 years and they can't figure out to make pets so it wont go away on weapon swap...whatever. dumb.

RebornV3x · July 2016

Nice build its nice to see some creative thinking and I would really try this but pet builds are bad for PVP any player that knows how to play will beat you hands down this looks great for group play but for solo play your just asking to respawn

franklinkimub17_ESO · July 2016

I like the build, but that magicka looks a little low, and I don't want to heavily rely on Overload.

Your 7+k hardened ward is not that great. Maybe do without it all together? Then you can put something like shuffle or dark deal.

KenaPKK · July 2016

Gandalphi, what is your primarily purpose with this build?

I'm not seeing enough damage output to be a significant threat, nor enough disruption to mess up an enemy group or demand to be focused.

Can we get a gameplay video?

Nice to see something not cookie cutter though. Props for that. I know a vaguely similar build to this, so I want to compare play styles.

Derra · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

Damn son. This is one sweet build haha. 23k resists, almost 2k impen rating, almost 30k health with 32k mag and 18k stam. This play style is exactly like my heavy armour DK with comparable stats. Its SO GOOD to see some sorcs at least trying to be original and come up with balanced toons. Coupled with wrath and kena too.

Most of them right off the bat dont even want to try this cos oooh 32k mag 2k spell power you hit like spaghetti wah wah wah. Sorcs are unplayable wah wah wah. All too used to running 3k+ spell power with 40k mag with 0 impen and in 5-7 light walking paper bags who got away with it cos hardened was so broken before.

For comparison, my DK runs 30k health, 25k resists and 2.7k weapon power fully buffed with 31k stam and 15k mag with 2.5k impen. I kill people just fine and im sure this build does just as well.

I´ve fought a comparable or actually this build. Aswell as comparable magica DKs (stamina is a whole different beast and not comparable at all).

You might want to tell me: What is the point of a build that is so little threat on the battlefield that it can be ignored until all of his friends are dead?

Also you don´t seem to be too familiar with the sorc class for magica specs. You want to know why people ran and are still running high mag + spelldmg builds? Because the class works that way. It´s whole concept of dealing dmg for sorcs is burst oriented.
This forces dmg stacking to actually kill capable opponents because sorcs offer very limited sustained pressure potential in it´s class trees.
To kill an opponent on most cookiecutter sorc builds you have to 100=>0 them which is only possible if you´re actually able to deal ~20 to 30k dmg in 2 seconds.
Sure there are variations (all of them got nerfed in the last patch bc they rely on pve sets to work which happen to be nonimpen).

Overall your post just illustrates an unwarranted superiority complex towards sorcerers aswell as missing in depth class knowledge.

Torbschka · July 2016

Derra wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

Damn son. This is one sweet build haha. 23k resists, almost 2k impen rating, almost 30k health with 32k mag and 18k stam. This play style is exactly like my heavy armour DK with comparable stats. Its SO GOOD to see some sorcs at least trying to be original and come up with balanced toons. Coupled with wrath and kena too.

Most of them right off the bat dont even want to try this cos oooh 32k mag 2k spell power you hit like spaghetti wah wah wah. Sorcs are unplayable wah wah wah. All too used to running 3k+ spell power with 40k mag with 0 impen and in 5-7 light walking paper bags who got away with it cos hardened was so broken before.

For comparison, my DK runs 30k health, 25k resists and 2.7k weapon power fully buffed with 31k stam and 15k mag with 2.5k impen. I kill people just fine and im sure this build does just as well.

I´ve fought a comparable or actually this build. Aswell as comparable magica DKs (stamina is a whole different beast and not comparable at all).

You might want to tell me: What is the point of a build that is so little threat on the battlefield that it can be ignored until all of his friends are dead?

Also you don´t seem to be too familiar with the sorc class for magica specs. You want to know why people ran and are still running high mag + spelldmg builds? Because the class works that way. It´s whole concept of dealing dmg for sorcs is burst oriented.
This forces dmg stacking to actually kill capable opponents because sorcs offer very limited sustained pressure potential in it´s class trees.
To kill an opponent on most cookiecutter sorc builds you have to 100=>0 them which is only possible if you´re actually able to deal ~20 to 30k dmg in 2 seconds.
Sure there are variations (all of them got nerfed in the last patch bc they rely on pve sets to work which happen to be nonimpen).

Overall your post just illustrates an unwarranted superiority complex towards sorcerers aswell as missing in depth class knowledge.

Derra go play again, next patch will be great!

5x amberplasm
5x lich
2x torgugs / magnus / whatever (max magicka or spell dmg)

This will be king, mark my words

Ishammael · July 2016

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

Damn son. This is one sweet build haha. 23k resists, almost 2k impen rating, almost 30k health with 32k mag and 18k stam. This play style is exactly like my heavy armour DK with comparable stats. Its SO GOOD to see some sorcs at least trying to be original and come up with balanced toons. Coupled with wrath and kena too.

Most of them right off the bat dont even want to try this cos oooh 32k mag 2k spell power you hit like spaghetti wah wah wah. Sorcs are unplayable wah wah wah. All too used to running 3k+ spell power with 40k mag with 0 impen and in 5-7 light walking paper bags who got away with it cos hardened was so broken before.

For comparison, my DK runs 30k health, 25k resists and 2.7k weapon power fully buffed with 31k stam and 15k mag with 2.5k impen. I kill people just fine and im sure this build does just as well.

I´ve fought a comparable or actually this build. Aswell as comparable magica DKs (stamina is a whole different beast and not comparable at all).

You might want to tell me: What is the point of a build that is so little threat on the battlefield that it can be ignored until all of his friends are dead?

Also you don´t seem to be too familiar with the sorc class for magica specs. You want to know why people ran and are still running high mag + spelldmg builds? Because the class works that way. It´s whole concept of dealing dmg for sorcs is burst oriented.
This forces dmg stacking to actually kill capable opponents because sorcs offer very limited sustained pressure potential in it´s class trees.
To kill an opponent on most cookiecutter sorc builds you have to 100=>0 them which is only possible if you´re actually able to deal ~20 to 30k dmg in 2 seconds.
Sure there are variations (all of them got nerfed in the last patch bc they rely on pve sets to work which happen to be nonimpen).

Overall your post just illustrates an unwarranted superiority complex towards sorcerers aswell as missing in depth class knowledge.

Derra go play again, next patch will be great!

5x amberplasm
5x lich
2x torgugs / magnus / whatever (max magicka or spell dmg)

This will be king, mark my words

Why would you need so much regen?

Xeven · July 2016

Meh I'm not trying to be an ass but, this build is absolutely terrible. Like, it's embarrassingly bad.

Sandman929 · July 2016

It's good to see players working with pets, but I'd rather they be removed from Daedric summoning altogether and be replace by Bound Weapons. Two pets gone (the atronoch can stay), Bound Sword (with a duel wield and 2H morphs scaling to max attribute) and Bound Bow added

Torbschka · July 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi

Damn son. This is one sweet build haha. 23k resists, almost 2k impen rating, almost 30k health with 32k mag and 18k stam. This play style is exactly like my heavy armour DK with comparable stats. Its SO GOOD to see some sorcs at least trying to be original and come up with balanced toons. Coupled with wrath and kena too.

Most of them right off the bat dont even want to try this cos oooh 32k mag 2k spell power you hit like spaghetti wah wah wah. Sorcs are unplayable wah wah wah. All too used to running 3k+ spell power with 40k mag with 0 impen and in 5-7 light walking paper bags who got away with it cos hardened was so broken before.

For comparison, my DK runs 30k health, 25k resists and 2.7k weapon power fully buffed with 31k stam and 15k mag with 2.5k impen. I kill people just fine and im sure this build does just as well.

I´ve fought a comparable or actually this build. Aswell as comparable magica DKs (stamina is a whole different beast and not comparable at all).

You might want to tell me: What is the point of a build that is so little threat on the battlefield that it can be ignored until all of his friends are dead?

Also you don´t seem to be too familiar with the sorc class for magica specs. You want to know why people ran and are still running high mag + spelldmg builds? Because the class works that way. It´s whole concept of dealing dmg for sorcs is burst oriented.
This forces dmg stacking to actually kill capable opponents because sorcs offer very limited sustained pressure potential in it´s class trees.
To kill an opponent on most cookiecutter sorc builds you have to 100=>0 them which is only possible if you´re actually able to deal ~20 to 30k dmg in 2 seconds.
Sure there are variations (all of them got nerfed in the last patch bc they rely on pve sets to work which happen to be nonimpen).

Overall your post just illustrates an unwarranted superiority complex towards sorcerers aswell as missing in depth class knowledge.

Derra go play again, next patch will be great!

5x amberplasm
5x lich
2x torgugs / magnus / whatever (max magicka or spell dmg)

This will be king, mark my words

Why would you need so much regen?

Well, it has nice 2-4 bonus and the fifth is just so cherry on the cake. If u run a desto most people run

5x Lich
3x Magnus
3x Willpower
1x VSMA Staff

But with
5x LIch
5x Amerplasm
2x Torugs / Magnus

U have just slightly less dmg, but are really have endless magicka plus really good stamina sustain.

Right now I am like

44000 Mag (mage mundus)
3,9 Mag reg (with lich proc and potion)
3,2 Spelldmg buffed with glyph (~2,8k without)
600 stam reg? (dunno)

With the amberplasm setup (and 10% more stam reg or so) I try to aim for smething like

43000 Magicka (mage mundus) (4100 without mage)
4,600 magicka reg with lich and potion
3k Spelldmg buffed with glyph (2,6k without)
1100 Stam reg (vampire + 10% CP) (1500 with serpent)

U can still change the munus for more spelldmg/crit (or im really considering this = serpent).

Well if u consider that 2 setups, I wuold favor the second one, becaause this really makes give u endless sustain and very ver good stamina and still enough dmg to kill people. But yes, I might be wrong lol

There is a Video of a guy on Ps4 which plays nearly the same setup as I do , but without VSMA weapon (just to show, that those stats I told are really manageable):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=sO5EODDY1Po
.