So with all the doom and gloom the past month, how bad is sorc?

potirondb16_ESO · June 2016

Sorcerer modification, different content, different perspective

VMA : The biggest change to how sorcerer react in that instance is mostly focus around Healing and skill utilisation. First, your biggest heal is no longer coming from a crit Crystal blast but by a constent liquid lighting which feels wierd but overall works fine. You have to remember to keep on aoe-dot up most of the time to ensure a maximum of heal. Otherwise the amount of Healing didn't affect me much.

Also shield relevancy has change, I am using the other morph of hardened ward which last 10s. on my normal bar and now I'm using harness magika on my overload bar and it seems to work perfectly but I believe it's now how most people would like it. Other then that, no real nerf to my score, but no increase in my capacity either. I would say that we heal more on thrash and low domage dealer since I didn't shield during a part of the arena, but we do have to play well when there's a lot of domage. I die once from an unprevented shield drop, hardened ward usage would probably had made me die a bit too often for the same reason.

Group Content: As far as group content, the overall performance of the Sorcerer has not been modify, we do a little bit more dps that we use to mostly because of how sharpened works now, but other then that I don't believe we got nerf or boost. As far as self protecting the modification of harness magika had made it the way to go for most of the content if you need to shield.

Pvp solo: Obviously the modification to shield made sorcerer one of the worst solo option again high burst build. The shield drop appear to happend way to often, and as far as it goes Healing capacity don't help you too much if you also have a burst build. I'm really wondering about other kind of build for sorcerer... Stamina Sorcerer are actually good in pvp atm.

Pvp small group: haven't met much group, but the overload seems to be a lot more responsive that it use to. It doesn't get stuck as much as it use to as far as I can tell.

Pvp large group: modification to negate made it really OP but the overall performance of stamina build may encourage sorcerer to use it as a protection rather then as an offensive ability... may depend on the size of your group. Overall dps is around 2k/sec in pvp.

Trial: As far as trial goes, I've notice a small issue with magika sustain, now I do have to work a lot more on my build to keep the same overall return of magika. I would say a 20% diminution of the magika sustain but I'm not a 100% sure. Other then that overall mobility is good, dark conversion change may it really usefull inbetween pulls and fight to keep your magika up.

The new set, which had been added since DB can also be usefull for Sorcerer but none really striked me as the way to go. It's still a work in progress as far as I can tell whether or not some of the set does fit Sorcerer playstyle. Some are willing to give Elegant set a shot, personnally I'm still on my guard since but if it stacks with vma bonus it might be Worth Something.

Overall performance has not been modified, neither for the best or for the worst, I would perhaps tent to say that we are definitively not part of the meta, but that we are not out of it.

Phinix1 · June 2016

My biggest problem is that it completely destroys the flow of bar swapping.

Shields used to go on the off bar, leaving room for Crystal Frags, Lightning Splash, Mage's Wrath, and Inner Light on the main single target/execute bar. Lightning Form, Shields, Crit Surge, and AOE could then go on the back bar.

Now with shields being totally borked you have no time to rely on them being on the backbar, they need to be on the main bar to be useful. This totally throws off the rotation forcing you to swap bars twice as often to tediously micromanage buffs and AOE.

It's a total PITA and I haven't played my cp160 gold geared magicka sorc since the patch.

I have no idea what they were trying to fix but they really botched this one.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

Grao wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Going to be honest here. Pre-DB I had a few low Vr toons that I used STRICTLY as crafting writ alts.

A week after DB launches I find my sorc really boring. I dusted off my templar since now he was cp160, paid a respec to magicka and am having a blast playing a Magplar. I have spent 99% of my time playing on my Sorc with no experience PvPing or PvEing on any other class.

I pulled some stuff out of my bank (3pc willpower, 5pc Kags, and Kena, something else) I wrecked a bunch of people last night in IC Sewers on my Magplar with just toppling, sweeps, and vampires bane since I really don't have many skill lines leveled. Not to mention, I got more telvar stones per hour than I ever did on my Sorc. I can't believe ANY other class has the audacity to complain about sorcs. Magplar = Ez mode. All I did was pull a guide off these forums, slots whatever skills I had, and it was the easiest adaption/transition I ever experienced in a game. The survivability, dps, and the comfort of the class was just so much more enjoyable. This isn't to say I couldn't accomplish that on my Sorc, but I am saying it's much more of a hassal, complication, boring, and un-engaging on a sorc.

And that is pretty much the conditions sorcerers are in right now. Yes, you can still play your sorcerer and complete content, but is it worth it? Sorcerers are the most boring class thanks to toggleness and the lack of basic skills and on top of being boring, its outperformed in every role by one of the other classes.

I've been pushing for the removal of toggles in the game for a very long time. I'm pretty sure I was talking about it as far back as Beta, and I liked playing Sorcerer in the early game. Early on people thought I was crazy to suggest toggle removal. Either I effected the minds of others, or people just came to the same conclusions I did. Too few skills to click means having them tied up with toggles is just not as fun. If we had 30 skill slots to chuck skills in, it'd be pretty irrelevant, but alas we do not. I think eventually the toggles as we know them are going to get changed. Changes to other toggles in the game tell me they're moving in that direction, they're just trying to discern how they can do so creatively. This is all my conjecture of course.

Waffennacht · June 2016

@potirondb16_ESO and wut of solo PvE non mVA?

kyle.wilson · June 2016

For pvp, its not that sorcs got bad. But the change to shields highlighted the bad players using a crutch. Which has happened every time a class sees major changes.

The burst dmamge is still there but, you can no longer stand in an enemy zerg with shields up.

rotaugen454 · June 2016

Most of what I do is not heavily affected. I never shield stacked. I run one shield, and tend to have different weaving patterns I use. I just worked the shield into it as having one more spot in the rotation for each combo and I'm fine.

Valrien · June 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

@potirondb16_ESO and wut of solo PvE non mVA?

That content is so easy it doesn't really matter as you can do it just by pushing a single button.

rotaugen454 · June 2016

Valrien wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@potirondb16_ESO and wut of solo PvE non mVA?

That content is so easy it doesn't really matter as you can do it just by pushing a single button.

That is true. I use PvE mobs to learn the rotations on my new setups so I have them down pat when I enter harder content. I haven't gone back to VMsA yet, as I wanted my new rotation learned before I go back.

Grao · June 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Going to be honest here. Pre-DB I had a few low Vr toons that I used STRICTLY as crafting writ alts.

A week after DB launches I find my sorc really boring. I dusted off my templar since now he was cp160, paid a respec to magicka and am having a blast playing a Magplar. I have spent 99% of my time playing on my Sorc with no experience PvPing or PvEing on any other class.

I pulled some stuff out of my bank (3pc willpower, 5pc Kags, and Kena, something else) I wrecked a bunch of people last night in IC Sewers on my Magplar with just toppling, sweeps, and vampires bane since I really don't have many skill lines leveled. Not to mention, I got more telvar stones per hour than I ever did on my Sorc. I can't believe ANY other class has the audacity to complain about sorcs. Magplar = Ez mode. All I did was pull a guide off these forums, slots whatever skills I had, and it was the easiest adaption/transition I ever experienced in a game. The survivability, dps, and the comfort of the class was just so much more enjoyable. This isn't to say I couldn't accomplish that on my Sorc, but I am saying it's much more of a hassal, complication, boring, and un-engaging on a sorc.

And that is pretty much the conditions sorcerers are in right now. Yes, you can still play your sorcerer and complete content, but is it worth it? Sorcerers are the most boring class thanks to toggleness and the lack of basic skills and on top of being boring, its outperformed in every role by one of the other classes.

I've been pushing for the removal of toggles in the game for a very long time. I'm pretty sure I was talking about it as far back as Beta, and I liked playing Sorcerer in the early game. Early on people thought I was crazy to suggest toggle removal. Either I effected the minds of others, or people just came to the same conclusions I did. Too few skills to click means having them tied up with toggles is just not as fun. If we had 30 skill slots to chuck skills in, it'd be pretty irrelevant, but alas we do not. I think eventually the toggles as we know them are going to get changed. Changes to other toggles in the game tell me they're moving in that direction, they're just trying to discern how they can do so creatively. This is all my conjecture of course.

My problem is less with sorcerers having toggles and more with what the toggles provide. If you are going to spend 2-3 skill slots for an ability it better be something really good with quite a few strong effects. Look at Bound Armor, it gives minor defense bonuses and a buff to stats other classes have as passives... Look at pets, their damage is close to dismissable because they aren't affected either by sorcerer damage boosting passives or by our CPs allocation, not to mention the fact they still die too easily. Those factors make one of our spell trees near to completely useless...

jgrinsteadb14_ESO · June 2016

The damage done to Sorcs with this patch signals the end of this product as a commercial success. Expect less and less in return for your dollars, just as with all dying MMOs where they milk players for years after they killed their game with idiotic design decisions.

Cronopoly · June 2016

I'm dropping my Sorc from play. In a PVP zerg she's ok and only seems viable healing from the back and Firestaff spam, but in ANY 1 on 1 you are forced to recast your shield every 6 seconds or get 3 shot.

The Fallacy of this 6 sec solution is in fact that in PVP the previous 20 second shield (if undamaged), didn't cause you to STOP and let up the PRESSURE to recast immediately. Other classes don't have to reset every 6 seconds, and in an endurance fight one mistake or CC will typically kill you as they are all over you...pressuring nonstop with Mad poisons.

Good luck putting offensive pressure on anyone with a 6 second shield that you have no choice but to recast. I was constantly chugging magicka pots like crazy. Done.

NativeJoe · June 2016

GoodFella146 wrote: »

I'm not trying to argue about the changes made or anything, I'm mostly just interested in the results. Like VMA scores dropping, almost zero sorcs in PVP now, etc.

If the game's population in PVP for example is now (i'm making these up as an example) 60% nightblades, 25% DKs, 10% templars, and 5% sorcs, that's just bad for the game overall and clearly shows a real problem if it continues that way from here on.

Like if every top sorc you know ditches it for nightblades, there's a fundamental issue there.

If you want my honest opinion on the class.... It's at it's worst. The "bad sorcs" are basically being forced out of the class in all content because even the worst of another class brings more to the table. Pretty much only the elites of the class are left struggling in pvp. Which logically will probably mean nerf sorcs more cuz the 1 out of 3000 people you encounter will murder you.

If you see a sorc doing great in pvp, in a trial, or dungeon... it's not because he is a sorc, it's in spite of being a sorc.

Latly I've been noticing less and less sorcs of all kinds... it seems we are going the way of the dodo... I mean seriously we're not expected to be crafters and mules at this point, I actually got tells and crafting requests yesterday riding around town and I don't ever advertise.

Our dps took a hit if you ran several niche builds. pets builds in particular took a dps hit, and can be instantly destroyed by a proxy because proxy det counts each target...and Do the math with a complete pet build.
Example: https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks/v/71511748

So... The situation is... the shield nerf hurt ALOT. the dps nerf on some builds and the increased cost of everything hurt ALOT. The combination of a collective loss on our end and the buff of every other class and build type in one way or another hurt as well. Then we got poisons that make 1vsX extremely hard because even walking by a zerg can get you tagged with 5+ poisons and it's basically their form of proxy det.

In PVE... people will "settle" for you if they can't find another or "get stuck with rather" . Everyone just brings more to the group then you can. be it heals, dps, sustainability, burst, utility, multi-role, etc.

in large pvp groups your a liability. your the one the nightblade is looking for to proc his vicious death.

The situation is grim...and if they base their decisions on how the few sorcs left in pvp are performing...we're gonna get another nerf.

iam117 · June 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

In PVE... people will "settle" for you if they can't find another or "get stuck with rather" . Everyone just brings more to the group then you can. be it heals, dps, sustainability, burst, utility, multi-role, etc.

sorry i couldnt disagree with this more, there are still plenty of sorcs in end game pve that are WANTED in their groups. the class needs some adjustment yes, but not to dmg output. simply in relevant passives and buffs that are sent out to the group. but buffs do not stack, so not everyone in group can send buffs out at the same time, infact usually 1/3 of the group is doing nothing for utility, so the whole group buff/utility argument is invalid, especially because dps should not really be running mitigation or utility ults anyways.

ContraTempo · June 2016

Valrien wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@potirondb16_ESO and wut of solo PvE non mVA?

That content is so easy it doesn't really matter as you can do it just by pushing a single button.

True. I have one sorc where I got one of the cheap re-specs but have not yet bothered to re-allocate my skill points. Still does ok in PVE with NO skills, LoL. I just blast em with my fire staff, bash em, dodge away, interrupt em, blast em again. Lack of skills actually makes some fights a challenge.

NativeJoe · June 2016

liv3mind wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

In PVE... people will "settle" for you if they can't find another or "get stuck with rather" . Everyone just brings more to the group then you can. be it heals, dps, sustainability, burst, utility, multi-role, etc.

sorry i couldnt disagree with this more, there are still plenty of sorcs in end game pve that are WANTED in their groups. the class needs some adjustment yes, but not to dmg output. simply in relevant passives and buffs that are sent out to the group. but buffs do not stack, so not everyone in group can send buffs out at the same time, infact usually 1/3 of the group is doing nothing for utility, so the whole group buff/utility argument is invalid, especially because dps should not really be running mitigation or utility ults anyways.

Well your alot more confident then me

, and I hope you keep the optimism up. I just feel silly next to templar dedicated healer pulling 23k dps and 120k heals a sec, a Dk doing 50k dps while dropping useful banners, and a NB dealing 40k dps while healing the group . Idk They get to keep all thier usefulness and I have to sacrifice everything as far as utility and whatnot goes and go straight up cookie cutter to compete....I just feel like im contributing nothing and anyone else in my place would be better.

iam117 · June 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Well your alot more confident then me , and I hope you keep the optimism up. I just feel silly next to templar dedicated healer pulling 23k dps and 120k heals a sec, a Dk doing 50k dps while dropping useful banners, and a NB dealing 40k dps while healing the group . Idk They get to keep all thier usefulness and I have to sacrifice everything as far as utility and whatnot goes and go straight up cookie cutter to compete....I just feel like im contributing nothing and anyone else in my place would be better.

remember, its always better to have an aware player, who gets good numbers, and is playing FOR the team, sure doing 50k is great, but they arent rezing when people go down, and yeah a nb heals the group, but in a trial this isnt needed, and they would be better served running force pulse anyways

people discount skill way to much, talented and aware players are always wanted in group, regardless of their class. pvp unfortunately is the opposite unless you run small group, in zergs, its basically a 1 button spam anyways, so sometimes certain classes are left out. but dont give up on it, it will ebb back into the swing of things, i think there has been enough discussion that they will be addressed in the coming 1-2 patches. unfortunately alot of what is happening is hype on the forums that transfers into game on some levels, all 4 of my guilds i do end game with have not put any real hate on sorcs, and each one has atleast 1-3 that still run end game consistantly.

Minalan · June 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Play Sorc
Don't play Sorc
You are too concerned with what was
And with what will be

There is an old saying:
Yesterday is history
Tomorrow is a mystery
But today is a gift

That's why it's called the present

Hate to break it to everyone, but Wrobel took a dump in a box and handed it out to every sorcerer.

There's your smelly 'present'.

I have a build that works somewhat that I plan to post soon.

hedna123b14_ESO · June 2016

Sorcs are fine in trials, higher dps actually became easier to achieve provided you have the gear. Vma is slightly more difficult but not to a crazy extent

jhharvest · June 2016

This is my experience from PVP: after the shield and surge change, and introduction of poisons I got completely wrecked when I tried my normal build and playstyle. Since then did some tweaks and I do okay in PVP but I feel like I have to play so much more conservatively now.

I never shield stacked previously so it's not that, it's just that now attacks from stealth are much stronger against me when I don't have a shield up all the time. Surge change on the other hand removed a lot of my healing and poisons when they proc really kill my stamina meaning breaking CC is often impossible. It doesn't help much that DKs got extra poison damage, the bow skill Poison Arrow was buffed and the 2.3 patch added poison damage to the same CP as physical damage...

But one of my guildies rolled a sorc. He's never played one in PVP. He says he's wrecking stuff and it might be that the advantage he has is he's used to playing conservatively and he doesn't have an experience of what it was like before the patch. Well, and he is a lot better player than I am.

STEVIL · June 2016

jwilkins66ub17_ESO wrote: »

.

Good luck putting offensive pressure on anyone with a 6 second shield that you have no choice but to recast. I was constantly chugging magicka pots like crazy. Done.

Just to be sure i understand, since for me hyperbole is a second language, the bolded portion in english would be pronounced "every time the 45s cooldown elapsed" right?

Sorry for my accent. Typical America educated in one languge here.

acw37162 · June 2016

You are going to take actual health damage now, that's about the extent of it.

Running 15 - 16 K health and trying to face tank like you previously could will hurt, a lot.

If you run high crit with wall of elements and liquid listening you have average self heals in most situations.

NativeJoe · June 2016

to the OP : The general consensus is...

The PTS thread wasn't all hype and over 2000 comments written across the forums here weren't all doom and gloom.
Yes, Everything is still... doable.

Sorc class, be it stamina or magicka I'm told is now the hardest class to be "marginally" good at, and exceedingly difficult to be "exceptional" at.

Our issues are well documented, in video, in explanations, anecdotes, and talked about in every TS I've been in. Idk what is more draining at this point. The people that are happy we got nerfed and are loving the CC burst damage 5 seconds into our shield... Or the people whom are in denial of what has happened to us as a class. (the latter may need some therapy or need to release videos of their amazing performance in contrast to other classes)

We have 1 viable end game build for pve (And I'll give a hint* it's not wobels crit based surge tank), and pvp has seen a great reduction in our population, variety of viable builds, and overall morale. The results are in.

Phinix1 · June 2016

DK > NB > Templar > Sorc > Argonian

But when not overly focusing on end-game DPS and survivability, Stamina Sorc has some fun changes.

SanTii.92 · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

DK > NB > Templar > Sorc > Argonian

But when not overly focusing on end-game DPS and survivability, Stamina Sorc has some fun changes.

I got a better one for you, good player > bad player. Rest pretty much doesn't matter

kewl · June 2016

Thelon wrote: »

What was and with what will be

Correction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJESRIJJu2E

kewl · June 2016

I'm hitting allot harder after DB. Seems I can drop others in 1/2 the time. Not sure if it's my post DB tweaks or that the meta for others has changed? About the only time I die is when I'm zerg swarmed or weapon swap to my shield bar is delayed.

stojekarcub18_ESO · June 2016

still super OP...gets very boring very quickly...I'm speaking pve, btw...never tried it in pvp, seems like all they do is try to escape and run away all the time, though, so yeah...prolly not too fun there either, for opposite reasons.

Valrien · June 2016

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

still super OP...gets very boring very quickly...I'm speaking pve, btw...never tried it in pvp, seems like all they do is try to escape and run away all the time, though, so yeah...prolly not too fun there either, for opposite reasons.

LOL. Looks like it's opposite day.

hedna123b14_ESO · June 2016

Valrien wrote: »

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

still super OP...gets very boring very quickly...I'm speaking pve, btw...never tried it in pvp, seems like all they do is try to escape and run away all the time, though, so yeah...prolly not too fun there either, for opposite reasons.

LOL. Looks like it's opposite day.

Val did you get infallible yet so u could be top dps in every fight on your sorc?

Dymence · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

My biggest problem is that it completely destroys the flow of bar swapping.

Shields used to go on the off bar, leaving room for Crystal Frags, Lightning Splash, Mage's Wrath, and Inner Light on the main single target/execute bar. Lightning Form, Shields, Crit Surge, and AOE could then go on the back bar.

Now with shields being totally borked you have no time to rely on them being on the backbar, they need to be on the main bar to be useful. This totally throws off the rotation forcing you to swap bars twice as often to tediously micromanage buffs and AOE.

It's a total PITA and I haven't played my cp160 gold geared magicka sorc since the patch.

I have no idea what they were trying to fix but they really botched this one.

If you're actively relying on shields in PVE group content you are.... doing something horribly wrong. That, or you don't have a healer. Or both.

sAnn92 wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

DK > NB > Templar > Sorc > Argonian

But when not overly focusing on end-game DPS and survivability, Stamina Sorc has some fun changes.

I got a better one for you, good player > bad player. Rest pretty much doesn't matter

QFT