Buying You Out!!! A plea to the community.

maxjapank · June 2016

RandalMarrs wrote: »

Become self reliant and those prices will have no effect on you and eventually change when more people compete to sell product.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Short ... insightful ... and easily missed at the top of the thread.

Yes, this. If you wanna save money, look around from time to time for flowers you need. Buy low. Save them up. And make your own pots.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

The complaint here makes no sense. You cannot “corner the market” on an item that is not rare. Anyone can collect flowers/reagents readily. Gold tempers and other rare items are different.

Plus, the fact that everyone can put their crafting mats in a bottomless bag means there will be scarcity again. Inventory management will no longer force many players to sell items in order to make room.

So go collect some crafting mats and sell them. Especially the ones other people don’t bother to collect. You’ll make some gold.

And I will keep collecting my own mats and selling pots for whatever people will pay for them. It’s not greed, it’s supply and demand.

I dont believe you can truly corner the market, but you absolutely can manipulate prices, even as an individual. In your example, how are flowers and gold tempers any different? You get them in the exact same way, by farming mats. Gold tempers take an extra step to refine but its trivial.

Also the argument that you can just do it yourself is valid, but it also can be applied to any aspect of this game. You could play this game at a very competitive level without ever spending a single gold piece on an item. Everything can be farmed, but its not practical. Most of us have to pick and chose what we farm or grind vs what we buy. Because of this, we have an economy. I think price manipulation is bad for the economy that most of us rely on for one thing or another.

Makkir · June 2016

So you probably think everyone should have a fair chance to be Emperor on a Cyrodiil campaign instead of the ones who work hard and play long hours to rack up enough AP for the #1 spot?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

So you probably think everyone should have a fair chance to be Emperor on a Cyrodiil campaign instead of the ones who work hard and play long hours to rack up enough AP for the #1 spot?

Apples and citrons.
They have nothing to do with the topic!!!

On a different note, know the difference between a sewing machine and an apple?

LadyLethalla · June 2016

I was very pleasantly surprised last night to find Dreugh Wax and Rosin last night for significantly less than the usual market price... I bought the lot, but for personal use, not to resell. On the other hand, if I didn't still need 60 odd Dreugh Wax I might well have bought them to resell... I don't have a lot of gold, so every little bit helps. Just saying.

However, having seen some of the prices people have set... they'll NEVER sell. 200 Rubedo for 79k?? (Yes, really.) Even 200 Rubedo for 20k. Pure greediness but while I laugh at their temerity I can't say I'd blame them for trying.

ZoM_Head · June 2016

RandalMarrs wrote: »

Become self reliant and those prices will have no effect on you and eventually change when more people compete to sell product.

This is why i am a crafter, i dont need to buy anything nor sell anything, i have everything i need.

newtinmpls · June 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Most end game players press their potion button once every 45 seconds when in combat..

Ouch. Makes me very very happy that my personal definition of "endgame" is I keep playing with friends and doing things I enjoy.

I don't use potions much, and most of the time it's just the dropped ones.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Most end game players press their potion button once every 45 seconds when in combat..

Ouch. Makes me very very happy that my personal definition of "endgame" is I keep playing with friends and doing things I enjoy.

I don't use potions much, and most of the time it's just the dropped ones.

This means, i NEVER will be an endgamer.
I never used a single pot.
I DO use or a food with regen, or a drink.
2 hour ones.

dem0n1k · June 2016

For me & a lot of other crafters I know... it's the addition of craft bags that have stopped us from selling excess mats. Prior to craft bags I never kept more than a 200 stack of anything other than improvement mats... now I keep it all. Why sell it when I already have a lot of gold & space is no longer an issue?

I still collect mats... I can't seem to help myself

If it's steamy (keen eye) I pick it up!

I have plenty of reagents for potions & I just keep picking up any new ones I see. I went on a bit of as binge lately to get all the new poison reagents.

I mainly used to sell processed mats whenever my stacks got over 200... but now I just let them go into the infinite craft bag.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

*Sigh*
I am so screwed...

FortheloveofKrist · June 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

The complaint here makes no sense. You cannot “corner the market” on an item that is not rare. Anyone can collect flowers/reagents readily. Gold tempers and other rare items are different.

Plus, the fact that everyone can put their crafting mats in a bottomless bag means there will be scarcity again. Inventory management will no longer force many players to sell items in order to make room.

So go collect some crafting mats and sell them. Especially the ones other people don’t bother to collect. You’ll make some gold.

And I will keep collecting my own mats and selling pots for whatever people will pay for them. It’s not greed, it’s supply and demand.

how are flowers and gold tempers any different? You get them in the exact same way, by farming mats. Gold tempers take an extra step to refine but its trivial.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Not true. The drop rate is very low for gold temps. So they are not easily replaced. If someone buys out all of the flowers I sell just to re-list them at higher prices, I can just go farm a ton more in no time. They will lose that battle. But if someone has the money to buy up a ton of gold tempers, those are not so easily replaced (without a serious time commitment). So that market can be bought up and resold at a monopoly price.

GivvumBoane · June 2016

Buy outs would be much more commonplace if there was a global auction house (or horse, whichever you prefer). It's alot easier to buy up everything when it's all in the same place.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

The complaint here makes no sense. You cannot “corner the market” on an item that is not rare. Anyone can collect flowers/reagents readily. Gold tempers and other rare items are different.

Plus, the fact that everyone can put their crafting mats in a bottomless bag means there will be scarcity again. Inventory management will no longer force many players to sell items in order to make room.

So go collect some crafting mats and sell them. Especially the ones other people don’t bother to collect. You’ll make some gold.

And I will keep collecting my own mats and selling pots for whatever people will pay for them. It’s not greed, it’s supply and demand.

how are flowers and gold tempers any different? You get them in the exact same way, by farming mats. Gold tempers take an extra step to refine but its trivial.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Not true. The drop rate is very low for gold temps. So they are not easily replaced. If someone buys out all of the flowers I sell just to re-list them at higher prices, I can just go farm a ton more in no time. They will lose that battle. But if someone has the money to buy up a ton of gold tempers, those are not so easily replaced (without a serious time commitment). So that market can be bought up and resold at a monopoly price.

So, if I were to sell say a stack of high iron for 500 gold, aiming to help a poor soul, you'd buy it up and resell it at, say, tenfold that price, undoing what i aimed at doing.
Am i getting this right?

You then should be very proud of yourself, brother.

mike_de · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

So you probably think everyone should have a fair chance to be Emperor on a Cyrodiil campaign instead of the ones who work hard and play long hours to rack up enough AP for the #1 spot?

Dear Makkir, in that case the campaign was not made for me, and I am realistic enough not play it at all.

But that, on the other hand means, Zenimax looses money, because I won't spent on such DLC or other any future DLC, that needs the gear or something else from this one.

Why should I ever buy DLC campaigns in the future, that are "gear based" on this one?

The same problems had Squeenix with FF XIV gear, where people were complaining, that, with every extension/update the gear they worked "hard" for, was "given away" much easier for new people, or people, who don't have the energy to get them the hard way.

In FF XIV they use statistics, that look after how many people posses which gear level. Because they know, what happens, if only a small elite percentage has the last two gear levels ... they won't sell any new expansion or loose subscriptions, if that happens,

And if that happens, the game will die. Because some people are not able to understand why they have to do this, because their inflated ego does not allow other people get this gear for "nothing".

So don't think much about t, it's called business.

Eocosa · June 2016

While I can appreciate your frustration OP, this happens in every game all the time.

Every single day the game is out more people make more gold from the game from npcs, adding gold to the "pool" players have access to. Thus the value of a single gold piece goes down. As the time it takes to gather enough mats to make those potions or items remains the same, the seller will demand more gold for it as the value of a single piece has gone down.

Thankfully there are options for you! Mercifully this game gives a LOT of skill points so you can definitely cover all the crafting skills over two toons or three (heck I have the lions share on my main who also pvps and tanks dungeons), so you can in essence never have to spend a single gold piece on a guild vender as you can craft BiS gear and all the consumables you'd ever need. This really is not sarcasm or anything, it's what I do!

Otherwise, while someone is trying to corner the market, you can make some serious profit off it as well. Say he is selling all his mats for 1k per that used to sell for 200. If you sell yours (remember regardless of crafting skill you can harvest materials) at 900-950 YOU just made 700-750 extra gold per! Eventually the person cornering the market will get greedy and be unable to keep buying your materials at that price as they can not sell it for profit and the price begins to come down, or else it remains constant and that really IS what it's worth and you just saved yourself selling all those mats at such a discount!

If you need/want any other tips on how to make yourself a bit of profit from these events or good ways to reduce your expenses at the guild vendors please shoot me a message and I'll do my best to help you!

Vangy · June 2016

Meh this happens every major change...

Remember when IC first came out, xivkyn motifs were going for anywhere between 150k to 300k. The complete book my friend sold for like 1 mil. 1 MIL. Temper prices shot up to 10.8k. Kutas were going for 10-12k. INSANITY, market crash OMG OMG sky is falling yelled forum trolls......

2 months later xivkyn motifs going for barely 5k. Tempers normalised to ~7k and kutas normalised to ~7k. Sky didnt fall, tamriel didnt implode.

This happens every major change. Take a deep breath. Prices go up cos;

1. There are people like me who have more than 2 mil gold. I couldnt give a hoot if that temper costs 6 or 10k. If I have a new gear set imma pay for it. As long as it isnt super super outrageous like 20k per temper or something. There are enough people like me around. We have 8 toons doing 6 writs each a day. We have gold. We have most of the mats. We have the bank space/craft bags.

2. These re-listers are targeting making money of people like those listed in 1. The thing is, once I finish any changes to my build after a major patch, im not gona buy anymore tempers or kutas or whatnots for example. Once that happens, the average player is not going to pay 10k per temper price. So goods just sit on trader. Then all these greedy players have no choice but to drop their price to move their product.

So the solution to this problem we have is just "time". Let those that want to pay for these prices do so. In time, they will stabilise back to original value that people consider fair. Regarding regular consumables that people need on a day to day basis; No one is going to pay 20k per stack of spell power pots forever. I might do that (if I didnt have like a thousand flowers in my bank already) if I have a raid and im all out and need it urgently, but no way am I paying that kind of price on a regular basis. They will even out. Dont worry OP.

ContraTempo · June 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

When someone corners the market like this you should look at it as an opportunity not a curse. Presumably people are buying at the inflated prices, so go farm some of these overpriced mats and undercut the guy. You make bank and drive the prices down at the same time, win/win. The more people that do this the quicker the market self-corrects.

I agree with this, but there are other solutions as well.

In the real world people form co-ops to manage this issue. The guild is a perfect structure for that. Form a guild, recruit similarly disgruntled people for it, and have them become their own source of supply. Set up a store but DON'T hire a guild trader. Everything listed in the guild store is for members only. Everyone can join other guilds for things they want to sell to the public. Specify exactly what you want people to list, and remove any junk that shows up. When members notice the store is low on e.g. rubedite, someone can go farm some and add it to the store. Make sure you have a trusted group since it would be easy for someone to buy at your guild's low prices and resell at higher public prices.

IMO this is a lot of effort to solve a minor problem but it is a solution that works in the real world and gets around price fixing and artificial shortages.

Epona222 · June 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Personally I find the opposite - now I have crafting bags I am looting everything in sight, whereas before I had to be a bit selective. It takes me just a few minutes when I am back at the bank to look through my bag and see what I have an excess of and list it. I made 20k tonight just from food ingredients within 10 minutes of listing them (and no I did not overprice anything, most were about 3-4g per, listed in stacks of 200).

I suppose if other people are too lazy to look through their crafting bags and sell what they don't need, it could work out very well for me in the longterm because I am prepared to do so myself, even though I am not greedy when it comes to pricing my goods - just means all the stuff I pick up will sell quickly.

Lysette · June 2016

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Supply. Demand.
...
There's nothing wrong with any of that. You either play and make some money, or you don't.

I find it distasteful that some people see playing the markets as a legitimately fun way to play the game. Buying things low and selling things high is ONLY a way to make another human player pay more than they had to.

Worst of all, the people playing the markets are not short of gold, but they are pricing out people who aren't so well off. It's a game, and this behaviour isn't just selfish, it's spiteful.

I see it as no different to camping by skyshards in cyrodil to gank noobs. Yes you can play the game that way, but it ruins the game for every one else.

wtf, that is how economies work - buying or producing low cost and selling to a higher price - without that no one would have any income at all - your salary is paid by this as well - you should have a bit more respect for those, who provide you with work and income. And to be able to do that, they need to have a good win margin - this makes the world go round.

And in regards to ingame economy - guild traders cost a ridiculous amount of money every week - this has to be paid by someone, and this someone will just provide that kind of money, if he can make profit from it. Members have to pay for it, but in order to do that, they have to sell to higher prices, so that their efforts are paid as well. Running a trading guild with guild traders is a service and for any service you have to pay extra. If those would not be there, you could buy nothing from traders and would have to farm all by yourself. What you can do as well now, if you don't like it. So do not complain, if you do not want to do that yourself, but instead use the service - then pay for the service as well.

ContraTempo · June 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Personally I find the opposite - now I have crafting bags I am looting everything in sight, whereas before I had to be a bit selective. It takes me just a few minutes when I am back at the bank to look through my bag and see what I have an excess of and list it. I made 20k tonight just from food ingredients within 10 minutes of listing them (and no I did not overprice anything, most were about 3-4g per, listed in stacks of 200).

I suppose if other people are too lazy to look through their crafting bags and sell what they don't need, it could work out very well for me in the longterm because I am prepared to do so myself, even though I am not greedy when it comes to pricing my goods - just means all the stuff I pick up will sell quickly.

See, that is the flipside.

I'll admit I have stopped selling mats because I simply have no need to do so. I don't need the gold and I don't need the space. If I sell something it will be finished armor, weapons, provisions or potions since I have master crafters for each. BUT, if I were just starting to build my funds I would find it quite helpful for the mats I farm to actually sell for a meaningful price. If I spend my time gathering mats that sell for 600g /stack, what's the point? I can earn faster than that by killing monsters for their gold.

In the end I expect simple supply and demand to bring prices to a level that is both reasonable and worth the farmers' time.

Mojmir · June 2016

master merchant,awesome guild store and some footwork. if its still too high, go find it yourself. theyre relying on your lazyness to buy their wares.

ContraTempo · June 2016

If you want to farm for yourself, I'll give you the best way I have found to be successful: Don't do grass while trying to farm.

Seriously though, go to your video settings and turn off grass. Look at the pics below. In the first you CAN spot the Blue Entoloma and Namira's Rot if you look hard enough. But with the grass off they are obvious.

Tib · June 2016

So I went to check out these awesome through the roof prices in hope of selling some materials myself (I'm too lazy to sell continuously, but this caught my interest, ESPECIALLY because I've actually been selling a bunch of alchemy materials every now and then for these past few months).

Where's the cornering and mad prices?
Where's my chances as a greedy salesman to profit?

:'(

I_killed_Vivec · June 2016

I don't understand... it's morally wrong to corner the market in flowers/potions (even though anyone can harvest nodes) but it's OK to buy them to gain an advantage? Particularly in PvP where you intend to beat other players to death...

You're going to kill and be killed and you're grumbling that someone is making you pay too much for flowers?

Another thing I don't understand - the refugees in Davon's Watch begging for money.

Don't they realize that there are Water Hyacinths all around and they sell for serious gold (and "re-flower" on a regular basis)?

There's no excuse to be poor in ESO.

DurzoBlint13 · June 2016

Frawr wrote: »

Supply and demand. People won't pay if the price is too high for them.

exactly this! Besides there is more than one recipe for almost every potion. Play around with it and see what other components can be used to achieve the same effect. Talk to people in area chat and ask if anyone wants to trade. I trade Namira's Rot and Bugloss all the time for Corn Flower and Lady's Smock. People that run stam builds have no use for magica reagents and vice versa. Plus I know a few places that are great for farming reagents and no one is ever at them

Sirvandal · June 2016

Yeah its so unfair! Jail those nasty ingame traders! They are criminals! Lets unite and arrest them!

Pomaikai · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

The complaint here makes no sense. You cannot “corner the market” on an item that is not rare. Anyone can collect flowers/reagents readily. Gold tempers and other rare items are different.

Plus, the fact that everyone can put their crafting mats in a bottomless bag means there will be scarcity again. Inventory management will no longer force many players to sell items in order to make room.

So go collect some crafting mats and sell them. Especially the ones other people don’t bother to collect. You’ll make some gold.

And I will keep collecting my own mats and selling pots for whatever people will pay for them. It’s not greed, it’s supply and demand.

how are flowers and gold tempers any different? You get them in the exact same way, by farming mats. Gold tempers take an extra step to refine but its trivial.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Not true. The drop rate is very low for gold temps. So they are not easily replaced. If someone buys out all of the flowers I sell just to re-list them at higher prices, I can just go farm a ton more in no time. They will lose that battle. But if someone has the money to buy up a ton of gold tempers, those are not so easily replaced (without a serious time commitment). So that market can be bought up and resold at a monopoly price.

So, if I were to sell say a stack of high iron for 500 gold, aiming to help a poor soul, you'd buy it up and resell it at, say, tenfold that price, undoing what i aimed at doing.
Am i getting this right?

You then should be very proud of yourself, brother.

I would, and I'd laugh all the way to the bank. Dumpster diving for deals in trade guilds is a lot of fun, and very profitable.

Recremen · June 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

The complaint here makes no sense. You cannot “corner the market” on an item that is not rare. Anyone can collect flowers/reagents readily. Gold tempers and other rare items are different.

Plus, the fact that everyone can put their crafting mats in a bottomless bag means there will be scarcity again. Inventory management will no longer force many players to sell items in order to make room.

So go collect some crafting mats and sell them. Especially the ones other people don’t bother to collect. You’ll make some gold.

And I will keep collecting my own mats and selling pots for whatever people will pay for them. It’s not greed, it’s supply and demand.

how are flowers and gold tempers any different? You get them in the exact same way, by farming mats. Gold tempers take an extra step to refine but its trivial.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Not true. The drop rate is very low for gold temps. So they are not easily replaced. If someone buys out all of the flowers I sell just to re-list them at higher prices, I can just go farm a ton more in no time. They will lose that battle. But if someone has the money to buy up a ton of gold tempers, those are not so easily replaced (without a serious time commitment). So that market can be bought up and resold at a monopoly price.

So, if I were to sell say a stack of high iron for 500 gold, aiming to help a poor soul, you'd buy it up and resell it at, say, tenfold that price, undoing what i aimed at doing.
Am i getting this right?

You then should be very proud of yourself, brother.

I would, and I'd laugh all the way to the bank. Dumpster diving for deals in trade guilds is a lot of fun, and very profitable.

Reporting for exploit! Nobody is allowed any fun!!

Uriel_Nocturne · June 2016

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Supply. Demand.
...
There's nothing wrong with any of that. You either play and make some money, or you don't.

I find it distasteful that some people see playing the markets as a legitimately fun way to play the game. Buying things low and selling things high is ONLY a way to make another human player pay more than they had to.

Worst of all, the people playing the markets are not short of gold, but they are pricing out people who aren't so well off. It's a game, and this behaviour isn't just selfish, it's spiteful.

I see it as no different to camping by skyshards in cyrodil to gank noobs. Yes you can play the game that way, but it ruins the game for every one else.

Well, if you don't like the prices in the markets, then go farm the *** yourself.

Like someone else said, this isn't like Star Wars Galaxies where resource nodes were finite. There is literally an unlimited supply of crafting materials to be able to make your own items at equal value/potency.

The Trader Guilds are a convenience. If you don't want to take the time to level a Skill and be self-sufficient by making your own items, then you get to buy them from friends or the Trader Markets. If you buy them from the Trader Markets, then you must realize that Supply & Demand economics is how the markets in this game (and most every other MMO economy) operate.

But just because you find supply & demand distasteful, does not make it "wrong", nor does it make someone "despicable" who plays the game as a "merchant" simply because they find more fun in the economics of a game rather than the mind-numbing repetition of Cyrodiil.

TL;DR: If you don't like the Markets and how Supply & Demand works, become self-sufficient and make the items yourself.

*** Also; the guy who said his Guildie "couldn't" find any pots for less than 20k and all sold by the same guy? He needs to check more shops. With the number of Guild Trader kiosks in the game and the infinite supply of crafting nodes, it is literally impossible to corner any market for any supply/good in this game. ***

Oreyn_Bearclaw · June 2016

Nice screen shots off the 211 gold lady's Smock that used to be about 30 gold 2 months ago. I think people are missing the point so I will say it again. No, you cannot truly corner the market in a game like this, but you can influence prices if you have the capital to buy mats on a massive scale. It might be short-lived, but it can absolutely be done.

I know a guy that went around and bought every nirncrux he could get his hands on in traders for two weeks in a row back when they were popular. He made a boatload in week 3. Probably a little easier to do because the mat was more rare (still farmable), but it clearly had a temporary impact on pricing. This is what I am talking about. I think it is unhealthy. I think the market will generally correct itself over time, which I actually think it has already started to do in this situation. The whole point I was making is that when you see people that are clearly trying to gobble up every mat they can find, perhaps it is not your best interest or the games best interest to do business with them.

Sidebar: Said individual flipped the switch last night and started selling. It would be interesting to know how much gold he made.

Also, any one watch the show the guild? There is a great episode were Vork tries to do just this thing.