Buying You Out!!! A plea to the community.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

There have been a lot of threads lately about traders cornering the market, and I do believe it is a real problem. Gold mats are through the roof, but I think that is mostly because the number of max level toons just doubled overnight. Pretty sure it will die down.

What really has me concerned are things like flowers and other low value commodities that are not as difficult to farm. I will use Spell Power Pots as an example:

You need. Lorkhan's Tears, Corn Flower, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth. 2 months ago, you could get the first two flowers for about 30 gold each, and the last one for next to nothing. You then started seeing the same few people (wont name names), starting to post the following: Buying you out!!! WTB Corn Flower, Lady's Smock, Water Hyacinth in the 100s and 1000s!!!! Blah blah blah. Now you are seeing the same few people selling Pots for 3-4 times the normal price. You have also seen mats almost triple in price in traders. I commented on this in one of my traders following seeing that post for the 10th time that day, and got a whisper telling me to go buy pots in a trader from him. The same Pots that used to go for about 6K/stack where listed for 20k. I thought it was a temporary response following the intro of poisons, but it has showed no signs of slowing.

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us. I know one big trade guild has already banned said individual, and I encourage others to discuss these types of actions with their guild leaders as well. Please don't sell your mats to these types of people and for the love of god, do not encourage them by paying ridiculous prices for potions. 20k+ for 100 spell power pots? Are you kidding me? The only way it stops is if we as a community do something about it.

Frawr

Supply and demand. People won't pay if the price is too high for them.

RandalMarrs

Become self reliant and those prices will have no effect on you and eventually change when more people compete to sell product.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

People should stop buying from those thieves, for a few days.

Uriel_Nocturne

Supply. Demand.

That's how the Guild Trader markets run.

Experienced sellers know how to recognize which utility items are going to be in demand with updates/expansions, and the prices rise accordingly. The higher prices will also stay high as long as demand stays high. For the flowers and ingredients in your OP, the desire/demand for Poison ingredients is apparently still very high, otherwise the prices would have started dropping by now.

Experienced and smart Sellers buy those same items at low cost, then when the DLC/Update in question hits, sell for a high price. Same as stock trading (ideally).

There's nothing wrong with any of that. You either play and make some money, or you don't.

CasNation

Guilds cant prevent others from buying from their traders. But yes, supply and demand will eventually run its course. Will this person or group of people get filthy rich in the mean time? Yeah, probably. There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. It's an interesting lesson in economics for those that aren't used to seeing things like this in their daily lives, or are too jaded to notice the ones that are about. Just look at women's vs men's razor prices.

wayfarerx

When someone corners the market like this you should look at it as an opportunity not a curse. Presumably people are buying at the inflated prices, so go farm some of these overpriced mats and undercut the guy. You make bank and drive the prices down at the same time, win/win. The more people that do this the quicker the market self-corrects.

Dromede

Those also make decent poisons, and dekand for poison mats is pretty high now. You are right, it might die out, or it might not.

It's not big bad guilds' fault - that's just the way market works.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Supply and Demand is great in your economics class, but in a game like this, markets can be cornered, and prices can be controlled. I dont think it is healthy for the game. I have more than enough mats for my own uses, but its frustrating when we are trying to get raids together and we are waiting on people searching for potions or mats and can't find any. I am also hearing more and more people get frustrated by this issue. People are upset that a basic staple in this game has quadrupled in price in less than two months. It's a real problem and all the platitudes regarding economics and self reliance wont change that. The only thing we can do is as a community avoid dealing with these types of people.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Supply and Demand is great in your economics class, but in a game like this, markets can be cornered, and prices can be controlled. I dont think it is healthy for the game. I have more than enough mats for my own uses, but its frustrating when we are trying to get raids together and we are waiting on people searching for potions or mats and can't find any. I am also hearing more and more people get frustrated by this issue. People are upset that a basic staple in this game has quadrupled in price in less than two months. It's a real problem and all the platitudes regarding economics and self reliance wont change that. The only thing we can do is as a community avoid dealing with these types of people.

You mean in less than 4 days.

Lysette

I bet there are plenty of people, who sit on millions of gold - they give a damn about having to pay 20k or even 100k for it, they want it, they get it - simple as that. And as long as the prices are that high, they have a real advantage bought with it. If others don't want to pay the price, so be it, they have to live with some disadvantage - that is just how things are in life.

Makkir

It's really only a problem for players who don't want to spend time harvesting nodes for themselves.
In the real world, convenience comes at a premium. If you refuse to invest time to gather materials for your very own capable self, then you are going to pay a premium.

You don't want to pay 5k/ stack of nightwood?.....go to your factions gold zone and farm it yourself.

Here's another solution- level an alchemist and make your own pots...

The fact that these trade goods literally come in an unlimited supply (because nodes respawn) means it is impossible for trade guilds to corner a market. You have more than enough skill points to invest in a trade and become self-sufficient, and you have just as much ability to go farm these materials yourself.

CasNation

As @wayfarerx points out, this is an excellent opportunity for you to make money yourself. Those easy-to-farm flowers? Go farm then, then sell your stacks of 100 spell power pots for 15k instead of 20k. The guys trying to sell for higher won't be able to sustain their prices because people know that they can get them for cheaper and start buying. Your would be amazed at how quickly the market can self correct as soon as a group of only slightly less greedy people start dropping the prices. Your product will be in high demand, and the other guy will be have to cut into his margins to compete.

And to those that say supply and demand is only good for economics classes, but doesn't help much here, I tremendously disagree. There is no form of advertising in ESO, unlike the real world. Classroom supply and demand only works when all products are perfectly equal. That is almost never true in the real world due to our perception. In ESO, every spell power pot is the same as the next. That is an incredible power we have as players.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Supply and Demand is great in your economics class, but in a game like this, markets can be cornered, and prices can be controlled. I dont think it is healthy for the game. I have more than enough mats for my own uses, but its frustrating when we are trying to get raids together and we are waiting on people searching for potions or mats and can't find any. I am also hearing more and more people get frustrated by this issue. People are upset that a basic staple in this game has quadrupled in price in less than two months. It's a real problem and all the platitudes regarding economics and self reliance wont change that. The only thing we can do is as a community avoid dealing with these types of people.

You mean in less than 4 days.

Actually, it started when the PTS patch notes mentioned poisons. Again, I get it, you think X is going to be more valuable in a few months so you buy it. You see an opportunity in the market for arbitrage (buying low and selling high) so you jump on it. I do it all the time. That being said, I think there is a difference between that and actually trying to corner the market and manipulate pricing on a particular commodity, which is exactly what is happening. We outlaw it in real life and for good reason, but its a little harder to police in a video game.

This is pretty much the response I expected, but doesnt mean its not an issue. I think the market is a very important aspect of this game. Personally, I dont think the game's economy is particularly healthy at the moment for lots of different reasons. This is one that I think players can actually do something about.

ShedsHisTail

I've heard you can just find that stuff lying on the ground... Is that true?

starkerealm

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Lysette

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Supply and Demand is great in your economics class, but in a game like this, markets can be cornered, and prices can be controlled. I dont think it is healthy for the game. I have more than enough mats for my own uses, but its frustrating when we are trying to get raids together and we are waiting on people searching for potions or mats and can't find any. I am also hearing more and more people get frustrated by this issue. People are upset that a basic staple in this game has quadrupled in price in less than two months. It's a real problem and all the platitudes regarding economics and self reliance wont change that. The only thing we can do is as a community avoid dealing with these types of people.

You mean in less than 4 days.

Actually, it started when the PTS patch notes mentioned poisons. Again, I get it, you think X is going to be more valuable in a few months so you buy it. You see an opportunity in the market for arbitrage (buying low and selling high) so you jump on it. I do it all the time. That being said, I think there is a difference between that and actually trying to corner the market and manipulate pricing on a particular commodity, which is exactly what is happening. We outlaw it in real life and for good reason, but its a little harder to police in a video game.

This is pretty much the response I expected, but doesnt mean its not an issue. I think the market is a very important aspect of this game. Personally, I dont think the game's economy is particularly healthy at the moment for lots of different reasons. This is one that I think players can actually do something about.

There is nothing to police here - if people don't buy it from him at that high prices, he cannot sell it and will have to adjust. But as long as you are impatient and want that stuff and there are people with extreme amounts of money, they will have the advantage for some time. Just live with it or go and farm those ingredients yourself - it is not that hard, well, if you aren't lazy that is. These guys, who control part of the market, put in effort into this, they worked for it to be able to do this. And those who complain do not want to put in any effort into it at all - so don't count on that I will support the lazy ones - I won't.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Supply and Demand is great in your economics class, but in a game like this, markets can be cornered, and prices can be controlled. I dont think it is healthy for the game. I have more than enough mats for my own uses, but its frustrating when we are trying to get raids together and we are waiting on people searching for potions or mats and can't find any. I am also hearing more and more people get frustrated by this issue. People are upset that a basic staple in this game has quadrupled in price in less than two months. It's a real problem and all the platitudes regarding economics and self reliance wont change that. The only thing we can do is as a community avoid dealing with these types of people.

You mean in less than 4 days.

Actually, it started when the PTS patch notes mentioned poisons. Again, I get it, you think X is going to be more valuable in a few months so you buy it. You see an opportunity in the market for arbitrage (buying low and selling high) so you jump on it. I do it all the time. That being said, I think there is a difference between that and actually trying to corner the market and manipulate pricing on a particular commodity, which is exactly what is happening. We outlaw it in real life and for good reason, but its a little harder to police in a video game.

This is pretty much the response I expected, but doesnt mean its not an issue. I think the market is a very important aspect of this game. Personally, I dont think the game's economy is particularly healthy at the moment for lots of different reasons. This is one that I think players can actually do something about.

My bad, I meant prices in general...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

CasNation wrote: »

In ESO, every spell power pot is the same as the next. That is an incredible power we have as players.

That is the definition of a commodity. Corn and wheat, coal and oil, etc. They are what we call fungible goods, meaning they are interchangeable. This is exactly what we are talking about in any econ class. Supply and Demand is absolutely relevant to an MMO. But that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about taking a stand against people who are clearly trying to corner the market on a particular good, something we actively prohibit in real life. I am suggesting that in addition to the other suggestions mentioned, level a crafter, farm mats, do writs (all of which I personally do), we need to take a stand against these types of traders. If you dont want to, then dont. This is not about me personally. I am posting because I think its unhealthy for the game.

I actually have a degree in econ, for what its worth...

Lysette

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Exactly.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I concur.
+1 insightful.

I consider this a very indecent thing to do, it's outright selfish, and near exploiting.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Actually, I dont think the new influx of level 50 toons is doing much. People can only play one at a time. Most end game players press their potion button once every 45 seconds when in combat. Having 7 new alts doesnt really change that. But certainly, there are many factors that go into pricing. One of which is people trying to actively manipulate said prices, which is clearly going on. Again, that is one we can chose to ignore or chose to do something about.

Lysette

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

CasNation wrote: »

In ESO, every spell power pot is the same as the next. That is an incredible power we have as players.

That is the definition of a commodity. Corn and wheat, coal and oil, etc. They are what we call fungible goods, meaning they are interchangeable. This is exactly what we are talking about in any econ class. Supply and Demand is absolutely relevant to an MMO. But that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about taking a stand against people who are clearly trying to corner the market on a particular good, something we actively prohibit in real life. I am suggesting that in addition to the other suggestions mentioned, level a crafter, farm mats, do writs (all of which I personally do), we need to take a stand against these types of traders. If you dont want to, then dont. This is not about me personally. I am posting because I think its unhealthy for the game.

I actually have a degree in econ, for what its worth...

It is a temporary thing which might last a few weeks and then it will be over. No need to do anything about it.

Makkir

You guys want to talk about cornering a market....you would have never survived Star Wars Galaxies. I was the top armorsmith on my server and I bought out all the high quality resources (Resources were limited in that game, because they had stats and would spawn for a few weeks and then disappear forever) and made the servers best armor (best stats) and competitive players would pay premiums for the best armor. This behavior prevented new armorsmiths from producing armor with the same stats and thus kept me above them. I had buying power and I kept the servers best resources out of their hands. That's cornering a market. You can't really do that in ESO because the Julianos armor is the same regardless who crafts it, and materials are found laying around on the ground for anyone to harvest.

Dromede

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Actually, I dont think the new influx of level 50 toons is doing much. People can only play one at a time. Most end game players press their potion button once every 45 seconds when in combat. Having 7 new alts doesnt really change that. But certainly, there are many factors that go into pricing. One of which is people trying to actively manipulate said prices, which is clearly going on. Again, that is one we can chose to ignore or chose to do something about.

Respectfully disagree. Before people would have 1-2-3 toons with max level, yellow gear and crafted pots. New toons were wearing loot gear or purple at most crafted sets - noone in their right mind would spend money on yellow non-v16 gear.

Now, it's more like 6-7-8 endgame toons that need to have their gear either crafted from zero or at least tweaked. Same with pots - using drop quality pots in vwgt or icp is embarassing, unless you are ridiculously good.

So, everything went up in price - i don't think it's going to last though)

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Makkir wrote: »

You guys want to talk about cornering a market....you would have never survived Star Wars Galaxies. I was the top armorsmith on my server and I bought out all the high quality resources (Resources were limited in that game, because they had stats and would spawn for a few weeks and then disappear forever) and made the servers best armor (best stats) and competitive players would pay premiums for the best armor. This behavior prevented new armorsmiths from producing armor with the same stats and thus kept me above them. I had buying power and I kept the servers best resources out of their hands. That's cornering a market. You can't really do that in ESO because the Julianos armor is the same regardless who crafts it, and materials are found laying around on the ground for anyone to harvest.

And I am sure people loved you for it. I agree that the market in eso cannot be truly cornered because nodes keep spawning, but prices CAN be and ARE manipulated by people with lots of time and gold. Again, the question that needs to be asked, is this healthy for the game? I think the answer is no. Some may disagree. If you agree that it's unhealthy, I am suggesting one thing you can do is NOT do business with the people causing the issue. That is all I am suggesting.

Loralai_907

I refuse to buy anything that inflated. Sure, someone else might be dumb enough to buy your one Rekuta for 10,000 gold, but I am having nothing to do with that.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Dromede wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flowers are still there at the same rate, people still chug pots like its going out of style, and there doesnt seem to be a huge influx of people playing the game. They only thing that has changed are the handful of players (might just be one guy for all I know) trying to corner the market and ruin it for the rest of us.

One other big change just happened.

Crafting bags.

Before that, people who habitually grabbed mats had an incentive to get the ones they didn't use out of their inventory. If they're subscribers, they can just keep grabbing stuff on the idea that "maybe, someday" it will be useful to them. So, supply actually has gone down some. I doubt it's the entirety of the price shift.

The other big thing that just changed is, there's now a lot of people who suddenly have V16 characters, and who need new V16 gear and supplies for those characters. Which also increases demand.

So, for the moment? Supply is down, demand is up, and the prices are reflecting that.

Actually, I dont think the new influx of level 50 toons is doing much. People can only play one at a time. Most end game players press their potion button once every 45 seconds when in combat. Having 7 new alts doesnt really change that. But certainly, there are many factors that go into pricing. One of which is people trying to actively manipulate said prices, which is clearly going on. Again, that is one we can chose to ignore or chose to do something about.

Respectfully disagree. Before people would have 1-2-3 toons with max level, yellow gear and crafted pots. New toons were wearing loot gear or purple at most crafted sets - noone in their right mind would spend money on yellow non-v16 gear.

Now, it's more like 6-7-8 endgame toons that need to have their gear either crafted from zero or at least tweaked. Same with pots - using drop quality pots in vwgt or icp is embarassing, unless you are ridiculously good.

So, everything went up in price - i don't think it's going to last though)

I think its wildly influencing prices of mats and gear, not so much with potions. People that had Alts power leveled overnight (myself included) likely arent drinking more pots than they used to unless they are actually playing more hours. Now that part is almost certainly happening, so I agree there. I am sure activity goes up following a patch.

zyk

I think your fears are largely baseless.

The cornering you speak of can only really happen with relatively rare items. Because ESO has so few tradable rare items this tends to only happen when an item is either very new or has been removed from loot tables.

Even then, it's not really a problem. It is part of the trading meta-game. It's actually one of the more fun elements of ESO that is slowly being ruined by ever-increasing drop rates of gold and items.

IcyDeadPeople

Frawr wrote: »

Supply and demand. People won't pay if the price is too high for them.

^This.

The price for those flowers has not increased due to small numbers of people advertising to "buy you out" in zone chat. Those prices increased because of overall increased demand for those specific flowers.

I imagine it wouldn't ever be possible to corner the market on flowers because so many people keep picking them every day. What you are seeing is more likely increased demand due to higher numbers of people playing ESO with the new update launch.

The same goes for spell power pots, enough people are willing to pay a certain amount to buy them that the average price may be slightly higher. On NA-PC however, it is certainly not 3x or 4x the price from 2 months ago.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I concur.
+1 insightful.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

You guys want to talk about cornering a market....you would have never survived Star Wars Galaxies. I was the top armorsmith on my server and I bought out all the high quality resources (Resources were limited in that game, because they had stats and would spawn for a few weeks and then disappear forever) and made the servers best armor (best stats) and competitive players would pay premiums for the best armor. This behavior prevented new armorsmiths from producing armor with the same stats and thus kept me above them. I had buying power and I kept the servers best resources out of their hands. That's cornering a market. You can't really do that in ESO because the Julianos armor is the same regardless who crafts it, and materials are found laying around on the ground for anyone to harvest.

And I am sure people loved you for it. I agree that the market in eso cannot be truly cornered because nodes keep spawning, but prices CAN be and ARE manipulated by people with lots of time and gold. Again, the question that needs to be asked, is this healthy for the game? I think the answer is no. Some may disagree. If you agree that it's unhealthy, I am suggesting one thing you can do is NOT do business with the people causing the issue. That is all I am suggesting.

We all love him, right? /sarcasm.
And this just is what i said in another thread, it's a despicable thing to do.