Volkodav wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

So it wouldn't be abused because people would take extra care so as to not annoy others... thus the DB is "good".

But inevitably when there are more people they would annoy each other and so the DB could be used for population control.


So people would be polite so that nobody used the DB against them except that they would use the DB because there might be too many people.

...erm.... No.


The DB aren't good, except by the most warped definition: "To do evil in an attempt to stave off a possible, and possibly greater, future evil". Quite quite extraordinary.

You do seem to be attempting to employ that definition with aplomb though. Nice work.

And you do seem to want to look at the black side of it all.The ES games werent all black and white.Never have been,never will.So what might seem evil isnt always evil.In every game,things are rather muddy,and sometimes unclear as to who is the bad guy and who is the good guy.They give you choices to respond,letting you know that what you say or do will change the outcome. You may take one response,and after you have,what occurs makes you realize things have gone wrong,but you cant take it back.Unless you dump the quest and begin again.

You do seem to want to make someone feel bad by adding"nice work".
Nice work.

Who's asking for all black or all white? Nobody. I posted in this very thread about the need for options with regard to the Main Quest in DLCs. As you want to talk about the previous games, let's look at the main quests from previous games and expansions that I have personally played:

• Dagoth Ur in Morrowind
• Almalexia in Tribunal
• Hircine in Bloodmoon
• Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion
• Umaril in Knights of the Nine
• Alduin in Skyrim
• Molag Bal in ESO

How many of the Main Quests associated with the above would you consider as not having a "good" option to pursue?

My problem with the posts by @Lysette isn't that I disagree that there isn't a degree of moral relativism in this game. I've had to make some hard choices in this game, and I actually count those as some of the more meaningful moments. My issue is that they seem to be arguing that we don't need a "good" guild on the basis that the DB are already a "good" guild and so we don't need another. This argument is being carried out the basis of circular and self-contradictory logic based on a comparison with the atrocities caused by real-world religions. I believe that this argument only serves to detract from the discussion, rather than add to it.

My "Nice work" wasn't actually sarcastic. Anyone who can hold only a thread of logic like that for this long really does deserve some recognition. That was actual kudos. I've seen some people play devil's advocate, but unless someone's heart is really in it they tend to give up after a while. @Lysette really seems to believe in the point they are making. Hence, nice work.

Interesting to see that you want to make me feel bad though.

Dekkameron wrote: »

Not a single one of my characters would ever think about joining the Dark Brotherhood (unless of course it was to kill everyone in the DB) only a couple potentially would join the thieves guild and only because they're Bosmer.

I know it's only my personal feelings on the background of my characters that is stopping me really.
But i just cannot bring myself to join say. the Dark Brotherhood with a character that has always just been a Priestess of Auri-El. It just wouldn't fit. Even with the most creative reason about her fall from grace i just couldnt do it.

I've thought about making characters purely just to do the Dark Brotherhood, but then the thought of grinding another character gets to me and i don't bother.

As i said at the start, i would love an alternate questline for the Thieves guild/Dark Brotherhood that had you working against them. I feel that this was a missed opportunity.

I agree. Especially sense the opposing NPC guilds are already in the content. It would have been a good way to make up for the same missed opportunity with the justice system

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

I would personally love a dude-bro/ dudess-sister guild where everyone drinks and have fun, sing and play annoying instruments and tell really bad jokes ..one like The Undaunted, just 0,000001% less stupid and with a different purpose.

All kidding aside, I think there is some value in adding none-combat related activities. I am reminded of the Hearthfire DLC for Skyrim. It added a bunch of activities that basically revolved around running a homestead, and raising a family. I'm not saying that ESO should turn into the SIMs or Second Life. But I think the inclusion of activities like this as a complement to regular game play could be good

Tomg999 wrote: »

Stuff like this never bothered me until the DB. My chars are all jaded folks trying to make it in a very tough world. Stealing, killing, killing guards, all of that so far no problem.
But as soon as my main for no good reason slit the throat of some woman sweeping in an alley, well, it really bugged me.

I am now leveling an alt who had such a twisted past that he is completely twisted to the dark side. Unfortunately that means doing the 1st 50 levels, leveling ledgerdemain and Thieves guild, creating/ finding the sets that give total hiding with no movement penalty, and a bunch of other stuff just to enjoy DB.

And it's a shame, cause my main is a supersneak, can steal stuff while folks are practically holding it.

That was the thing that bugged me too. Once you get into the quest line, you can start to see the DB as protagonists (in a twisted, Joker-ish sort of way). But that one quest, set the tone for me. If they had just writen that quest a little differently, than I think a lof of folks would have gotten a different feel from it. Many have argued that, that is who the DB is, and deal with it. Well thats great, but ZoS has now shipped to DLCs with that tone, and no alternative choices

A necromancy skill line would be cool but knowing ZoS they would make it only available in one zone. TG and DB skill lines SUCK .

Defilted wrote: »

Mages and Fighters guilds are "Good Guy" guilds.

This had been brought up already. The Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild are self-serving. They made be 'doing the right thing', but they are not *** so in true service to others.

Some people like to affiliate with organizations that are actually serving something higher than themselves. ie. Vigilants of Stendarr, The Silver Hand, etc.. Not just 'happen to be doing the right thing because it suits them' In short, having a higher purpose in general.

Oddly enough, thats one thing that can be said about the DB. They are serving something higher than themselves

A new DLC where you choose a side (could be good or evil or just opposite factions) and lock out the skills of the opposite you didn't select. That would be awesome. Doesn't have to be black and white.

mages and fighters guild...

undaunted is also considered a guild too

j3crow wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

mages and fighters guild...

undaunted is also considered a guild too

None of those guilds are truly motivated by serving the good. They are serving themselves, and that just so happens to align with the good. But none of them are truly doing what they do in service to others like the Vigilants of Stendarr, or the Silver Hand.

At best, their intentions are mediocre.

At best, the Silver Hand thought their actions were for the greater good. Considering their actions in TES:Skyrim (they killed and tortured about as many non-lycans as lycanthropes), I'd equate them to the Inquisition. But I'd rather not turn this back into a Christianity debate (Nontheist here), as I don't find that religion is required to have a set of morals.

Yah, I'd be happy to not play a thieving, murdering PoS in the next expansion.

Not to mention dailies that are a joke if you are a NB, but a PIA if you are any other class.

IC, TG and DB are all very NB-centric imo. That's 3 of the last 4 DLC's.

We could technically help out a local temple, with the quests evolving around crafting for the needy and the poor.

• Provisioning = feed the poor.
• Alchemy = heal the ill.
• Clothing = dress the poor.
• Blacksmithing & Woodworking = make tools, create buildings etc. for the poor.

Help rebuilding a town, that is in great need of your help - with experience and inspiration bonus for grouping and helping eachother.

I want something new in an upcomming patch, that focus more on bringing the community together. Preferably with events, music and cheery circumstances that will bring players to a more chatty mood.


I would also prefer this to be part of the base-game content, so everyone is included. But if it only comes with a DLC, then it's fine x_x

Just pls give us something social, because not everyone is like me and get 2-3 requests for dungeons within the first 5min I log in to the game with 5 active guilds and a full friends list.
-I run a guild, and the many of my new members (specially if they are lowbies) struggle at finding a group within 2 hours.

Volkodav wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What about the blades? I mean, they obviously wouldn't be searching for the dragon born this time around lol, but maybe they could do something useful with themselves. Were they around during this era?

Blades were the emperor's guards - without an emperor, questionable.

The Blades were the Emperor's personal guard but they were of course more than that. They were also imperial spies, keepers of dragon lore, protectors of the faith, etc etc. The original Blades were also there to help fight against Alduin and bring about the end of dragon rule.

Yes,they were all of this.Not just guards for an Imperial Emperor.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Blades could make for a great heroic knightly order for players to join. There could even be some infighting as different members seek to crown a different Emperor. Without having a Dragon-Blooded Emperor on the throne though, it seems to me that their role of protectors of the people would really come into play. The atrocity that Mannimarco created and the affront to their order that Clivia represents is just fuel to the fire for a group like this. The great thing is they would be mostly unsuccessful in their dealings, constantly stemming back the tide of daedra incursions until stability returns with Tiber. This is actually a fantastic group we could join.

Another great possibility would be a stendarr-serving Order, as Stendar goes hand in hand here, being about justice, order, defending the weak, and protection of the Empire. They are all about civility, civilization, and have a great disdain for Daedra.

If it were me I'd use one or both of these two Orders to give players something Knightly or Priestly to join.

Iluvrien wrote: »

So it wouldn't be abused because people would take extra care so as to not annoy others... thus the DB is "good".

But inevitably when there are more people they would annoy each other and so the DB could be used for population control.


So people would be polite so that nobody used the DB against them except that they would use the DB because there might be too many people.

...erm.... No.


The DB aren't good, except by the most warped definition: "To do evil in an attempt to stave off a possible, and possibly greater, future evil". Quite quite extraordinary.

You do seem to be attempting to employ that definition with aplomb though. Nice work.

I agree. I've known some evil and shady people, and I can tell you if they had access to a Dark Brotherhood, they would use it in a heartbeat and take advantage of that to crush good hardworking people. This isn't about deserving, some people are a-holes and opportunists and could care less if the whole world burns. If you don't believe that, you've been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid. Society needs its cops, its firefighters, and yes its soldiers. In a better world with better people we would not, but there are enough bad people out there that you do. I'm sick of this thread getting derailed by nonsense that the DB is a heroic guild. They're interesting and they have a fun gameplay, but lets stop the silly sermonizing for Sithis here. Its derailing the thread from its true intent, and impinging a little too much real life on the topic.

Oh, and NO, I am aware, DB existed LONG before GoT, i was merely using the Faceless Ones as example.

Just so we are clear.