Malubeth Set in PvP

Armitas · June 2016

Synozeer wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

I posted about this in another thread, but Malubeth is bugged to high hell.

On my Templar, I often get 10k healing ticks from it. Yesterday I got a 20k+ tick. Not sure if this is an interaction with other healing buffs like Purifying Ritual or Channeled Focus that are bugging it out.

According to what I have been told if you have the Malubeth proc all your heals will enter your log as a malubeth heal. It's not healing for 10k. It's just the way your own heals enter the log.

Not true in my case. In no way can I do 10k or 20k heals (I'm not even sure what in the game could even heal me for 20k+). And this has also happened when I'm in a 1v1 with no one else healing me, so it couldn't be someone elses heals. I'm a Bomplar with low magicka and spell power - when I cast Honor the Dead, I heal for 8k at most, and more commonly 3-5k. And I am also getting 5k+ heals with Red Diamond while wearing Malubeth.

I don't know, mine is healing for like 931 health in PvP against a spider.
630 damage
931 health.

Would be even less against a player.

Ahzek · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

With regards to the current heal from Malubeth Scourge set (if it procs), as a comparison I'd like to ask fellow players to observe heals from by Vigor on a Stam build running mostly medium armor. At CP160, stamina builds can easily achieve 34K+ Stamina resource and 4K+ weapon damage. You will see that the heals generated are more significant in value over five seconds than what the Malubeth Scourge set can generate when (and if) it procs. IMHO the 30% increase to heals is justified because the chance for this monster set to proc is pretty low.

Example of superior heal value from Vigor was demonstrated by an outstanding player @Yoyuyi999 on one of his Stam DK videos. And this does not depend on RNG, it happens 100% of the time whenever you press that skill. If you watch the video, chances are you will be impressed.

With regards to the current damage dealt by the Scourge set taking into account battle spirit (again if it procs and such damage can easily be avoided), the damage value is less than one snipe, less than one crystal frag, less than one wrecking blow/dizzying swing.

I would agree to an extent with @Armitas :
"Yeah that is my take on it. It's really not OP on it's own. No one bats an eye when people shuffle roll around rocks popping large vigors, ... ... ... ... ...but stand your ground and survive even in a 1v1 and people lose their minds, they absolutely lose their minds."

Stamina builds running 5+ medium armor with above illustrated weapon damage and stamina resource stats will outheal Malubeth Scourge set 100% of the time. I get more healing from Vigor WITHOUT Malubeth on my Stamina NB, whilst having the ability to hit much harder. Same applies to my Stamina DK, I believe the topic starter will agree to a certain extent, as he is a very skilled Stamina DK running Vigor as well.

However, I encourage everyone to discuss, in the hope that ESO will improve over time towards achieving better balance and it becomes a game we all enjoy even more. Thank you to all who have shared their thoughts, hope we all get to learn from each other in a constructive and positive manner.

Peace and happiness to all.

Noone is comparing the itemset to a skill here. Thats not how this game is balanced (Skoria never does as much dmg as a Wrecking blow).
The issue with malubeth comes from the 30% increased healing taken buff, which basically makes you unkillable for its duration if you know what youre doing. Also ,you say malu doesnt heal as much as vigor, but have you considered malu healing its own value + 30% of vigors value + 30% of rallys value (HoT and burst) + 30% of your other heals value ?
This extremely unhealthy design considering it has a % chance to procc and no cooldown on it whatsoever, so in theory you can go without a procc the whole fight or you could go with entire minutes of malubeth buffing you up (theory).
Additionally, due to the randomness it can just procc when your opponent unleashes his ult combo on you and you can just shrugg it off a good amount of the time without investing effort or resources, while "normal" builds have to play around such threats much more engangingly.

Another food for thought would be the comparison of malubeth to the other defensive undaunted set, bloodspawn.
Having the same conditions to procc, those 2 sets function very differently.
Where BS provides a decent amount of resistances it does not prevent your death like malu does, simply because it gives a flat value and does not modify your other defensive boni.
Malubeth makes you unkillable ( in a fair combat situation, it doesn't help 1v20 obv.)

Bloodspawn also gives 15 ult, where malubeth deals some damage and heals you for that amount the 15 ult is only really worth it on an ult focused build , whereas the damage and heal ( when not bugged) provide a decent benefit for everyone.

The endresult is, that you only see BS on very specific builds ( as 2 piece), whereas you can slap Malu on just about anything and simply benefit from the undeniable power it gives.

Ragnaroek93 · June 2016

Yes the set is too strong, BUT it's the best set if you are outnumbered. I don't know, why everyone wants Malubet to get nerfed. Don't tell me outnumbered fights aren't already enough crap with all this BoL and Beam kids.

Waffennacht · June 2016

But... but...

Just walk 11meters and say gg to malubeth?

olsborg · June 2016

Its freaking broken, way too OP set atm, what the hell happened...

Ahzek · June 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

But... but...

Just walk 11meters and say gg to malubeth?

Walk 11 meters in a meta where literally every build has a slow built in. Or spend resources on dodging out then walk some more, all while you can't attack the target.
If you say a defensive set has to be countered by moving away from the player, then it basically provides 100% damage reduction. Sounds OP ? It is.

templesus · June 2016

I've been running it for months on my stamplar, I'll be pissed if its nerfed.
EDIT: if u take this away, take kena away from sorcs and NBS, and skoria away from mag dks and templars. This is the only good 2pc for the Stam classes alone.

CP5 · June 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

But... but...

Just walk 11meters and say gg to malubeth?

Walk 11 meters in a meta where literally every build has a slow built in. Or spend resources on dodging out then walk some more, all while you can't attack the target.
If you say a defensive set has to be countered by moving away from the player, then it basically provides 100% damage reduction. Sounds OP ? It is.

Have you tried... poisons? Or using ranged attacks?

Waffennacht · June 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

But... but...

Just walk 11meters and say gg to malubeth?

Walk 11 meters in a meta where literally every build has a slow built in. Or spend resources on dodging out then walk some more, all while you can't attack the target.
If you say a defensive set has to be countered by moving away from the player, then it basically provides 100% damage reduction. Sounds OP ? It is.

Sorcs are the new meta via streak!

oh im funny

incognito222 · June 2016

Hello again guys,

I spent the last 10 minutes of my time today in Cyrodiil trying to reproduce the numbers brought up by our friend @Synozeer and I failed to get the values he obtained. Against NPCs and when Malubeth procced, I'm getting on average 6-8K crit heals from Breath of Life (Templar skill). On non-crit heals this would be anywhere between 4-5K from one cast.

If Malubeth did not proc while I cast BoL, the values would be lower than above. The gear I have on is Kagrenac's Heavy Armor with S/B with defending on weapon and reinforced trait on shield. On my offensive dual wield bar, the tooltip heal value from BoL are higher by approximately 900.

I cannot verify these values to be accurate or reliable as these are based off my observation from FTC alone. In conjunction with use of other sets this could be more. Moreover, these were against NPC's and have yet to be tested when fighting another player. Are my observations missing something ? Did I fail to factor in other elements that could have contributed to more healing received ?

Perhaps the more experienced and gifted minds amongst us are able to share some insight on this topic ... ( clasps hands together and looks hopefully to @Asayre ). It would also be delightful if Master Shifu @Alcast can cover this in one of his upcoming videos.

@Ahzek , thank you for sharing that information with us, your opinion is indeed logical and if a stamina build with high weapon power + high stamina resource, pops rally and vigor while Malubeth procs, I can only imagine that the heal values from Vigor alone would be excessive. That would lead us to question : is the heal from Vigor too much on stamina builds as it is ? Compounded by the effects of Malubeth then it would indeed be questionable.

But if such a scenario (in theory) were to happen, which one is more at fault :
(a) Vigor currently healing for too much
or
(b) Malubeth (if it procs) compounding whatever heal value by 30%

Your comments on : "Additionally, due to the randomness it can just procc when your opponent unleashes his ult combo on you and you can just shrugg it off a good amount of the time without investing effort or resources, while "normal" builds have to play around such threats much more engangingly." .

The above is open for discussion as there are various kinds of ults and combos in ESO with different effects and counters. However, I believe there are more effective (and constantly reliable) ways to counter ultimate and combos, rather than relying on heals + low proc rate from Malubeth Scourge set.

I would not say Malubeth makes you unkillable in a fair 1v1 setting as you have stated. I have died often to many players.
It does make you harder to kill if the needed proc happens when you need to pop a heal, but I would be mistaken if I were to believe that Malubeth will consistently save me when I need it to. IMHO it is a set that increases your chance of survival whilst dealing some damage, whether it is OP or not is subject to more tests and open discussion.

@olsborg , please share with us why you think this set is OP. Perhaps your point of view will enlighten us further. I'm sure we all look forward to more concrete data to help us understand.

Once again, thank you for your opinions everyone, wish you all a great weekend.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · June 2016

I've seen a lot of tank build wearing it. I wonder if it would be decent for a more burst/dps oriented build in PvP.

Ahzek · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

Hello again guys,

@Ahzek , thank you for sharing that information with us, your opinion is indeed logical and if a stamina build with high weapon power + high stamina resource, pops rally and vigor while Malubeth procs, I can only imagine that the heal values from Vigor alone would be excessive. That would lead us to question : is the heal from Vigor too much on stamina builds as it is ? Compounded by the effects of Malubeth then it would indeed be questionable.

But if such a scenario (in theory) were to happen, which one is more at fault :
(a) Vigor currently healing for too much
or
(b) Malubeth (if it procs) compounding whatever heal value by 30%

Your comments on : "Additionally, due to the randomness it can just procc when your opponent unleashes his ult combo on you and you can just shrugg it off a good amount of the time without investing effort or resources, while "normal" builds have to play around such threats much more engangingly." .

The above is open for discussion as there are various kinds of ults and combos in ESO with different effects and counters. However, I believe there are more effective (and constantly reliable) ways to counter ultimate and combos, rather than relying on heals + low proc rate from Malubeth Scourge set.

I would not say Malubeth makes you unkillable in a fair 1v1 setting as you have stated. I have died often to many players.
It does make you harder to kill if the needed proc happens when you need to pop a heal, but I would be mistaken if I were to believe that Malubeth will consistently save me when I need it to. IMHO it is a set that increases your chance of survival whilst dealing some damage, whether it is OP or not is subject to more tests and open discussion.

I am quite confident that Malubeth is at fault in the situation youre describing. In a decently high weapon damage build (4.8k with ravager procc) and with 10% CP into blessed my vigor only really ticks for ~1k on its own non crit.

Vigor has to be where it currently is to bring stam builds anywhere close to magicka survivability, since permadodging is unavailable to most serious builds.

My biggest issue with malubeth is not how effective it is however, but how little you give up to use it.
You can literally slap 2 pieces malubeth in any build you can imagine to gain an incredible boost in survivabilty its not even funny.

( on a sidenote i am a bit biased agains malubeth because i play a DoT build atm and have experienced 30 seconds of malubeth without a break, so this set just makes me puke whenever i see it. At least its not fasallas though .... )

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2016

So I payed attention to it all day, and I can for sure say that I'm in no way getting an increase in healing recieved that would be beyond what you'd expect. What is described here from "10k ticks" and the like must be an addon tracking issue. It also does not do any significant damage or healing on its own. Highest I've seen was 443 crit damage, resulting in me getting healed for 1694 while buffed with Major Mending and Minor Vitality (on a super squishy enemy); Puncturing Sweeps healed me for ~900 in that fight (1200 damage done).

I'd say make the procc Major Vitality, just in case. With the abundance of health and armour debuffs available for stamina builds, I'd say fighting this is a bigger problem for magicka builds. For what it's worth, it can be reflected (saw it happen with the templar reflect skill).

Synozeer · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

@Synozeer ,

That is an interesting observation as on my Heavy Armor Magplar, I am unable to come anywhere close to the the heal values you have shared with us. I believe this warrants further investigation as to what other skill / ability / item set, may trigger such numbers. My Templar is a Nord so I would not be able to assist in confirming the Red Diamond passive together with Malubeth Scourge set.

Perhaps another kind soul may assist and if indeed this is happening, we should alert ZOS of the situation.

Out of curiosity, are you running 'Briarheart' set with Malubeth ? Or 'Alchemist' set perhaps ?

I'm not using Briarheart or Alchemist. Here's a few screenshots of my combat log:

Note the heals from Scourge Harvest. This is with CLS (Combat Log Statistics). FTC also reports the same.

In both cases, I had Major Mending up. When its not up, my heals are in the hundreds of health and not the thousands.

Dyride · June 2016

OP is wrong, the thing that is overperforming is Major Mending, not Malubeth.

Run Malubeth on any other build than Templar or DK and you will see.

clocksstoppe · June 2016

If you wear this set and always win in 1v1 then what happens if two people wearing it fight in a 1v1?

Ch4mpTW · June 2016

Sigh... The FOTM whine game is in full effect for Malubeth set I see... You had people saying the set was pretty useless for months, and outclassed by things like Engine Guardian for tanks and other things of the sort... Now that DB has launched, and a few streamers and YouTubers are hyping it up and bigging it up nonstop it's broken and overpowered...? Really now?

I usually don't say this, as I really dislike saying it. But this is on the few times that it's warranted... Learn to play better.

Synozeer · June 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Sigh... The FOTM whine game is in full effect for Malubeth set I see... You had people saying the set was pretty useless for months, and outclassed by things like Engine Guardian for tanks and other things of the sort... Now that DB has launched, and a few streamers and YouTubers are hyping it up and bigging it up nonstop it's broken and overpowered...? Really now?

I usually don't say this, as I really dislike saying it. But this is on the few times that it's warranted... Learn to play better.

You must have missed my post a few replies up showing the broken healing ticks. Here's another just in case...

Dyride · June 2016

Synozeer wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Sigh... The FOTM whine game is in full effect for Malubeth set I see... You had people saying the set was pretty useless for months, and outclassed by things like Engine Guardian for tanks and other things of the sort... Now that DB has launched, and a few streamers and YouTubers are hyping it up and bigging it up nonstop it's broken and overpowered...? Really now?

I usually don't say this, as I really dislike saying it. But this is on the few times that it's warranted... Learn to play better.

You must have missed my post a few replies up showing the broken healing ticks. Here's another just in case...

@synozeer, As others have said, when your Scourge is procced it counts your other healing sources as "Scourge heals."

Also FTC scrolling text combines closely spaced damage and healing from the same source into a single tick.

Synozeer · June 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Sigh... The FOTM whine game is in full effect for Malubeth set I see... You had people saying the set was pretty useless for months, and outclassed by things like Engine Guardian for tanks and other things of the sort... Now that DB has launched, and a few streamers and YouTubers are hyping it up and bigging it up nonstop it's broken and overpowered...? Really now?

I usually don't say this, as I really dislike saying it. But this is on the few times that it's warranted... Learn to play better.

You must have missed my post a few replies up showing the broken healing ticks. Here's another just in case...

@synozeer, As others have said, when your Scourge is procced it counts your other healing sources as "Scourge heals."

Also FTC scrolling text combines closely spaced damage and healing from the same source into a single tick.

See the other post of my CLS log: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3043122/#Comment_3043122

You'll see the big heals after every Malubeth proc. And as I mentioned before, I've replicated this in 1v1 when I had full control over what heals were being used. (ie. I can do absolutely nothing except let Malubeth proc and I will get those same heal ticks).

Malmai · June 2016

WeWereNords wrote: »

This is frankly the most OP set in the game right now and absolute cheese. I choose not to use it because of how obviously trashy it is yet I just can't play this game when anyone who is "gud" is using it in 1v1's and then trying to call me bad.

Upfront, the set is slightly broken (not working as intended or as should), however even if it were it needs to be severely tuned.

To start off it is NOT affected by battle spirit, the proc steals the exact amount of health that is shown, as well as the 30% healing is also applied to the health it steals, and being that this is already a huge amount, it's really impossible for any other set in the game to offer any kind of survivabillity remotely close. There are a few other sets in the game that are not affected by battle spirit and while it's off topic for this thread I do believe they need to be coded to be affected by battle spirit as well in PvP.

Since DB there has been a HUGE influx of people running malubeth and I've never seen one lose a 1v1. So if you're reading this thread trying to find a way to be good at PvP, please, farm wayrest sewers and get malubeth. The more people that run this in PvP, the more people will see how truly broken it is and will likely get it fixed.

I've always said if you gave me the reigns I could have this game action combat balanced within 24 hours so after discussing with some other friends I've compiled a few possible ways to have malubeth more balanced for PvP, in developing these ideas I've also tried to find ways to keep the set relevant to PvE. First and foremost I do NOT want this set nerfed to the ground, but it MUST be affected by battle spirit, and every one of these options I've come up with assume that the battle spirit debuff has been applied to the set already.

Option 1: Reduce the healing buff. if used on a nightblade or sorc it's not completely painful, but any Dk or Templar that's already running major mending now has a 60% heal buff when malubeth procs on top of the already outrageous self heal it gives increased by 60% O.o... If the sets heal was cut in half by battle spirit, and the healing was reduced to 10% additional healing it would be much more bearable. My first thought was this might break the PvE tanks, however if you're relying on malubeth for your survivability solely as a PvE tank, you're probably a pretty sad tank..

Option 2: Code roll dodge to break the beam. This was one of my favorite suggestions although I feel like it still leaves the set a little overtuned. Ranged specs don't have as much of a problem with malubeth since being over 10 meters away breaks the beam. Melee DPS are the ones with the problem and allowing them to break the beam with a dodge roll would be a skill based counter to the set, also this would leave PvE almost completely untouched because PvE mobs do not dodge roll (often).

Option 3: Remove the 30% healing increase. Just flat removing it would help balance the game more, I would say make it major mending so that it doesnt stack with a templars or DK's mending, but that's sort of the advantage temps and DK's have and if nightblades and sorcs were running it too, it would lead to more imbalance. Just removing the heal buff altogether from malubeth would balance the set more.

Option 4: Remove the 30% healing increase, and make it steal a percentage of your max health. I sort of like this option the best because the main problem with the set in PvP is that any DPS can run malubeth and become as powerful and hard to kill as any tank. by making this change it really kills the set for DPS (as it should), but almost buffs it for tanks in both PvE and PvP, making the set more of a tank set as I believe it was originally intended to be. I've seen some of these templar tanks running around with 60k health, if it stole 33% of your max health from the target that would be 20k, affected by battle spirit 10k. To me this seems like a fair way to allow tanks to do some damage in both PvE and PvP.

Maybe i'm just complaining but I know i'm not the only one out there that thinks this set is just absolute cheese in PvP. I would really like to see something done about malubeth BEFORE the next patch. I'm probably not going to be playing ESO against this frustrating meta and therefor I would like to see this fixed without having to wait another 4 months.

Why cry over set cry over LAG and Bugs 1st...

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2016

Synozeer wrote: »

incognito222 wrote: »

@Synozeer ,

That is an interesting observation as on my Heavy Armor Magplar, I am unable to come anywhere close to the the heal values you have shared with us. I believe this warrants further investigation as to what other skill / ability / item set, may trigger such numbers. My Templar is a Nord so I would not be able to assist in confirming the Red Diamond passive together with Malubeth Scourge set.

Perhaps another kind soul may assist and if indeed this is happening, we should alert ZOS of the situation.

Out of curiosity, are you running 'Briarheart' set with Malubeth ? Or 'Alchemist' set perhaps ?

I'm not using Briarheart or Alchemist. Here's a few screenshots of my combat log:

Note the heals from Scourge Harvest. This is with CLS (Combat Log Statistics). FTC also reports the same.

In both cases, I had Major Mending up. When its not up, my heals are in the hundreds of health and not the thousands.

Well.... this is indeed a lot of healing from a Malubeth proc. I use CLS as well, but I don't see those numbers, even with Major Mending. Do you mind listing ALL your bonuses to healing done and healing recieved? CP, armour sets, skills, passives. Maybe this will give a hint.

Dracane · June 2016

I agree it's too strong and its effect is too huge for this liddle effort.

The major mending doesn't even seem to be the major problem. Dragonknights and Templars have free access to major mending (basically) so they wouldn't even need the major mending from this set and still it makes them almost unkillable. This set is too good, no matter who is wearing it. Magicka build, stamina build, no matter which class.

The tooltip says, it has a 8% proc chance. But this can't be true, it's more like 20% or more, this set has a 100% uptime on most enemies I face, it procs all the time. Compared to maw of the infernal, which has a 5% proc chance and won't proc in ages even if you spam channeled lightning heavy attacks. Remove major mending from it and significantly reduce the proc chance.

This set is so broken, that it was banned from the last 1v1 tournament for most builds and 1v1 isn't even its main strenght. It's even stronger in 1vx. I have people telling me "Oh, I lost vs you, now I will use Malubeth" it's so strong that they use it as an emergency set to definately win

okay, this is a bit funny. But just to show you how serious this is. Malubeth is a filthy Harvester inside a dirty sewer, her head doesn't need to make you so strong. Everyone I was talking to agrees, that it is a nuisance and that it is too strong.

DuckNoodles · June 2016

@WeWereNords

So wat! If players use it in 1v1s
Iv encounter countless players with this set in 1v1s and I have trashed them with ease!

Let players wear what they want!

Stop calling for nerf all the time and learn how to play the game!

incognito222 · June 2016

@Ahzek ,

I understand your bias as it would be annoying to face someone who has constant uptime with Malubeth proc. Leads me to question whether it would be a benefit not to cleanse / purge DoT and take in the damage instead, in the hope of getting procs more often. Personally, this is too much of a risk for me as DoT damage from DK Venomous Claws hurts a lot the longer it is in effect. Not to mention that multiple kinds of DoTs are applied, which would be risky not to purge / cleanse them ASAP. I play a DoT build on DK using Skoria and its lots of fun ^_^

Being a Templar, my playstyle is to cleanse often as it not only removes DoTs, but doing so also provides a HoT for me, so in that sense the benefit of cleansing outweighs other alternatives.

@r.jan_emailb16_ESO ,

"For what its worth, it can be reflected" ... that is such a cool observation, most of us are not aware of that.

@r.jan_emailb16_ESO ,
@ Synozeer ,

" Well.... this is indeed a lot of healing from a Malubeth proc. I use CLS as well, but I don't see those numbers, even with Major Mending. Do you mind listing ALL your bonuses to healing done and healing recieved? CP, armour sets, skills, passives. Maybe this will give a hint. " ... ... ... same here I could not get those number after multiple attempts. Makes us even more curious what caused such high numbers.

@Dracane ,

As shared previously, I have often been killed 1v1 whilst using this set. Often being the key word, I would question your description of 'almost unkillable' ... haha could be due to me being a lousy player idk.

Please allow me to clarify that tooltip states 6% on a purple piece and not 8% as you have shared with us. If you experience enemies with 100% uptime on MOST enemies you face, then something is not right as that would be impossible for most of players using that set. I would whisper and ask nicely if I were to encounter such an occurrence to confirm as to how they are achieving that.

You mentioned : " This set is so broken, that it was banned from the last 1v1 tournament for most builds and 1v1 isn't even its main strenght. It's even stronger in 1vx. I have people telling me "Oh, I lost vs you, now I will use Malubeth" it's so strong that they use it as an emergency set to definately win

okay, this is a bit funny. But just to show you how serious this is. Malubeth is a filthy Harvester inside a dirty sewer, her head doesn't need to make you so strong. Everyone I was talking to agrees, that it is a nuisance and that it is too strong. " ... ... ... That is what we are trying to establish here through constructive discussion based on real data and fact finding. We as players are encouraged to do this on all fronts, not only with regards to Malubeth, shield stacking, perma rolling, etc. the aim is for all of us to put our thoughts together and provide constructive feedback to help the developers achieve more balance that will benefit ALL players, and make this game better (and enjoyable) over time.

So if you have the time and are willing, next time you face enemies that have almost 100% uptime with Malubeth proc, we would appreciate if you could help, by asking that player how they were achieving that. If there is indeed an exploit to allow almost 100% uptime, it will need to be addressed accordingly.

@DuckNoodles ,

I am probably one of those many that fell victim to your skills. And your ID (Duck noodles) is making me salivate *hungry*

Dyride · June 2016

@incognito222

Why some people claim it is constantly up is if you are using a spammable DPS that has multiple hits (Jab/Sweeps, Crushing Shock) or if you are running multiple DoTs.

Someone using proper weaves will also proc it more often.

@Synozeer maybe some of the +healing received is stacking with it in another way. You are running a templar, Major Mending, Heavy Armor +8%, plus whatever CP bonus from Quick Recovery+Blessed.

Was it a completely controlled test? No heavy armor, no CP?

Yoyuyi999 · June 2016

incognito222 wrote: »

With regards to the current heal from Malubeth Scourge set (if it procs), as a comparison I'd like to ask fellow players to observe heals from by Vigor on a Stam build running mostly medium armor. At CP160, stamina builds can easily achieve 34K+ Stamina resource and 4K+ weapon damage. You will see that the heals generated are more significant in value over five seconds than what the Malubeth Scourge set can generate when (and if) it procs. IMHO the 30% increase to heals is justified because the chance for this monster set to proc is pretty low.

Example of superior heal value from Vigor was demonstrated by an outstanding player @Yoyuyi999 on one of his Stam DK videos. And this does not depend on RNG, it happens 100% of the time whenever you press that skill. If you watch the video, chances are you will be impressed.

With regards to the current damage dealt by the Scourge set taking into account battle spirit (again if it procs and such damage can easily be avoided), the damage value is less than one snipe, less than one crystal frag, less than one wrecking blow/dizzying swing.

I would agree to an extent with @Armitas :
"Yeah that is my take on it. It's really not OP on it's own. No one bats an eye when people shuffle roll around rocks popping large vigors, ... ... ... ... ...but stand your ground and survive even in a 1v1 and people lose their minds, they absolutely lose their minds."

Stamina builds running 5+ medium armor with above illustrated weapon damage and stamina resource stats will outheal Malubeth Scourge set 100% of the time. I get more healing from Vigor WITHOUT Malubeth on my Stamina NB, whilst having the ability to hit much harder. Same applies to my Stamina DK, I believe the topic starter will agree to a certain extent, as he is a very skilled Stamina DK running Vigor as well.

However, I encourage everyone to discuss, in the hope that ESO will improve over time towards achieving better balance and it becomes a game we all enjoy even more. Thank you to all who have shared their thoughts, hope we all get to learn from each other in a constructive and positive manner.

Peace and happiness to all.

Thanks for mentioning me, appreciate it.

I have to honestly disagree, however. I do get really good vigor heals, but I am very much killable. I die in 1v2s easily, and especially in a zerg. I was trying out Malubeth and saying it does not proc often is... absurb to say the least. Depending on the amount of people on me it can be up as often as basically 100% of the time. This set literally made me invincible and I feel something needs to be done. There are pugs openworld that I could easily kill that are now near invincible in a 1v1 scenario.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · June 2016

So, I did a small test with a friend, and here is my hypothesis:

The heal you get from the Malubeth procc depends on the damage done. It got fixed in the DB update, as in Battle Spirit no longer reduces the damage by 50%, and the healing recieved by another 50%. Only the damage should be reduced by 50%, and the heal not a second time; this means simplified that healing = damage done + 30 % + all your other passives.

However, the numbers I saw hint at something else: the healing is calculated from the unmitigated (as in, no Battle Spirit) damage. For example: DoT tick 367, healing recieved 1089 (no major mending or anything). 367 without Battle Spriti would've been 734, healing done +10% (CP) -> 690, healing recieved +30% (Malubeth, +5,1% CP) = 1089 healing.

I'm not sure how crits play into this, I've seen both the damage and the healing crit. Looks like damage crit modifies healing, which can crit again.

For the seemingly high crit rate: Crushing Shock for example has 3x10% to procc Malubeth on each hit, Puncturing Sweeps 4x10% and so on, also DoTs can procc it.

Asmael · June 2016

Question: Burning embers / Strife / etc... have been fixed in the sense that they benefitted from crit double dipping.

Just getting that out, because the difference between average and max healing is absolutely massive. Sounds like the set crit steal life, then you get to crit the healing again.

incognito222 · June 2016

@Dyride ,

"Why some people claim it is constantly up is if you are using a spammable DPS that has multiple hits (Jab/Sweeps, Crushing Shock) or if you are running multiple DoTs." ... ... ... this is a logical explanation that warrants more testing on my part where I equip Malubeth and try not to cleanse DoTs next time they are inficted upon me.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

So, I did a small test with a friend, and here is my hypothesis:

The heal you get from the Malubeth procc depends on the damage done. It got fixed in the DB update, as in Battle Spirit no longer reduces the damage by 50%, and the healing recieved by another 50%. Only the damage should be reduced by 50%, and the heal not a second time; this means simplified that healing = damage done + 30 % + all your other passives.

However, the numbers I saw hint at something else: the healing is calculated from the unmitigated (as in, no Battle Spirit) damage. For example: DoT tick 367, healing recieved 1089 (no major mending or anything). 367 without Battle Spriti would've been 734, healing done +10% (CP) -> 690, healing recieved +30% (Malubeth, +5,1% CP) = 1089 healing.

I'm not sure how crits play into this, I've seen both the damage and the healing crit. Looks like damage crit modifies healing, which can crit again.

For the seemingly high crit rate: Crushing Shock for example has 3x10% to procc Malubeth on each hit, Puncturing Sweeps 4x10% and so on, also DoTs can procc it.

Thank you kind Sir, for taking the time and effort to conduct tests, those results will help everyone currently analyzing this topic.

@Yoyuyi999 ,

Thank you for sharing your opinion on this matter as well, I am inclined to think that channel attacks / DoTs are causing the frequent uptime of this set's proc. Will have to gather more data and test results to confirm this. And please keep up the good work with your build videos, they are remarkable and a source of inspiration to the community.