mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Having a certain amount of cp does not make or break any individual player.

Showing cp to the world does not help anything.

One has no idea how many skill points and individual toon has. One has no idea how they have set their skills their stats or if they have set cp in a fashion for them to be useful nor does showing this number let others know whether they have optimized their gear.

Am I asking for all of this information? No I am not. I am saying those that are excluding others based on this number have no real idea what they are getting as the cp amount doesn't tell them if this is a brand new level 50 or a truly seasoned toon. Further it does not tell any one the true skill of the individual playing that toon.

Therefore the number is actually meaningless. As such I would have preferred to have that number hidden. Since it serves no real or good purpose but that is just me. This coming from one who is over the cap.....

EZgoin76 wrote: »

I'm a console player so I have no idea if it was different before console release but why even have VR ranks to begin with?

Why did they not just stick with regular levels, i.e. levels 1 through 50, open up the CP system at level 50. Then cap levels at 65 until content demanded higher levels.

I may be thinking a little to simplistic, idk.

Arato wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

I'm a console player so I have no idea if it was different before console release but why even have VR ranks to begin with?

Why did they not just stick with regular levels, i.e. levels 1 through 50, open up the CP system at level 50. Then cap levels at 65 until content demanded higher levels.

I may be thinking a little to simplistic, idk.

Because this method opens up the game for all your alts once you hit level 50. Before, your alts were only 1/4 of the way to being able to do group content when they hit 50. They still had to do all the questing they did from 1-50 2 more times, plus another 6 veteran ranks worth of xp to reach the cap.

jrgray93 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

lua is a great resource, more than likely you have the ability to turn those off

The problem with this is that they only turn it off for you. All that does is put you at an informational disadvantage to other players. I don't think champion points should have been made available to see to begin with. All it does is encourage people to only group with players of high CP value. That's not conducive to a friendly experience for newer or more casual players, who are necessary for the good of the game.

Should they keep the value visible to other players, I think it would make more sense if anything over 160 just showed as "160+." It's nice to know people can wear max value gear and your group leader will scale correctly. What's not necessary and creates an environment of elitism is showing things like 501.

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

I'm a console player so I have no idea if it was different before console release but why even have VR ranks to begin with?

Why did they not just stick with regular levels, i.e. levels 1 through 50, open up the CP system at level 50. Then cap levels at 65 until content demanded higher levels.

I may be thinking a little to simplistic, idk.

Because this method opens up the game for all your alts once you hit level 50. Before, your alts were only 1/4 of the way to being able to do group content when they hit 50. They still had to do all the questing they did from 1-50 2 more times, plus another 6 veteran ranks worth of xp to reach the cap.

Yes that's the way it is now. My question was why they made VR levels in the first place. Instead of having regular levels like I said above.

I'M on my phone so I won't go further into it but I think this could have all been avoided in the first place.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

There are two things I'm picking up here, so I'll try to restate @Gidorick. First, I get the sense that you do not feel the Champion System fits Elder Scrolls. I'm actually inclined to disagree since it feels an awful lot like the Skyrim leveling experienced and perks. It has its own ESO spin, but there's definitely a connection there. Secondly, you don't like the way it displays and the elitism that might come from that. I understand this concern, but as long as they keep the bar low on the gear it shouldn't be too big of a problem should it? In terms of the esthetics of the system, I really can't speak to that. I recall the Stargate MMo was going to have their levels similar, where each level was very minor in importance and they would unroll new content fairly regularly. That was what they were going for, and It seems to me like that is what ZoS is trying to do here. My question to you, is how would you take the system as designed and make it esthetically more pleasing, less 'elitist' and more Scroll-Like?

Gidorick wrote: »

This is a similar, but different concept for Veteran Rank replacement. While I am still suggesting VR be replaced with straight levels there are enough differences for me to just make a new thread. This thread does not suggest that we continue progression past level cap… I’ve separated that into another thread.

TL/DR
ZOS should convert Veteran Ranks to 30 levels, distributing the skill points of the 16 Vet Ranks accordingly.

Topics:

• Immediately raise the level cap to 80
• Convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level
• Skill, Attribute, and Champion Points
• Current VR Rank Conversion

Immediately raise the level cap to 80
Soon, each VR Rank takes 850K XP to achieve. This is a daunting a task for many players, especially considering that the average XP requirement per level 41-50 is about 111,000 XP. Taking the average multiplier between levels 10-50 we can see a progression that is much more gradual and in line with the average increase in the XP required for each level prior to level 50.

In this post 50 Level system proposition, the first level in which players are required to achieve more than 1 million XP would be level 80, the suggested CAP. Level 80 would require 1,020,034 XP to reach.

The TOTAL number of XP required to level from VR1 to VR16 is 12,750,000. This proposed change would increase the total number of XP required to be about 13,800,000. Many VR 14 players would automatically achieve level 80 and would be at max level.

Convert all gear/recipes to the appropriate level
This new system would facilitate the conversion of current VR Gear and Recipes to Level gear and recipes.

Old Chart

If it’s decided to increase the levels beyond 80 ZOS could use the established gear interval to have gear released for every 2 levels instead of every single level. More on that in the thread Ongoing Level Progression Concept (not yet posted)

Skill, Attribute, and Champion Points
Post 50 progression incentives should be a little more separated than pre 50 progression. Skill points (SP), Attribute Points (AP), Champion Points (CP), and Gear Requirements (GR) shouldn’t be awarded for every level. These points can be distributed at a wider interval than 1-49 leveling.

Below is a chart of when players would be awarded the different progression incentives. It should be noted that this progression would not add any additional Skill Points or Attribute points to the current Veteran Rank system, they will just be awarded at different XP intervals.

Old Chart

It's interesting to note that adding 2 VR levels would actually make the conversion to levels 50-80 a more direct conversion.

• Skill Points: Skill points should be awarded every other level. This will result in the same 16 skill points that are awarded during VR leveling.
• Attributes: Attribute points should continue to be awarded every other level.
• Champion Points: Champion points should remain to be a tangential progression and will provide players with a much more specialized character. Players should earn additional CP by leveling. Players should receive 1 CP every other level. This would be in addition to their normal CP gain.
  
  This can be accomplished by granting a player 400K non-enlightened XP to the Champion Progression. If a player has 125K XP toward a Warrior CP, they will be awarded the Warrior CP and will then have 125K toward their next Thief CP. Their CP level would increase accordingly.

Current VR Rank Conversion
Many players who have characters past level 49 maxed would need to adjust their attribute points upon to conversion of VR Ranks to Level conversion. The following would have to occur:

Characters above level 49 would:

• Have their VR Rank converted to levels dependent on the total number of XP they have earned.
  
• Gain additional CP levels in accordance with their new level.

These changes would bring a player who previously gained VR 16 in line with a player who climbs to level 80. A player who has 8 VR 16 characters would automatically gain an additional 128 Champion levels. Some may view this as being too much but a player who takes 8 characters to level 80 would receive a total of around 380 Champion Points (assuming a player gets about 2 CP per 850 thousand XP).

Overview
Using this concept, players who are leveling past level 49 will experience a more rewarding leveling experience and not feel the daunting pressure that is currently felt with the Veteran Ranks. This will help make progression more interesting and more rewarding. This post-level 50 progression should be accompanied by additional skills and DLC for players to consume, but that is for another post.

Thoughts?

Gidorick wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Yes that's the way it is now. My question was why they made VR levels in the first place. Instead of having regular levels like I said above.

I'M on my phone so I won't go further into it but I think this could have all been avoided in the first place.

@EZgoin76, I believe it was because early beta players complained about wanting to complete all 3 faction's content with one character.

So they developed Vet Ranks, Silver & Gold.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

I'm a console player so I have no idea if it was different before console release but why even have VR ranks to begin with?

Why did they not just stick with regular levels, i.e. levels 1 through 50, open up the CP system at level 50. Then cap levels at 65 until content demanded higher levels.

I may be thinking a little to simplistic, idk.

Because this method opens up the game for all your alts once you hit level 50. Before, your alts were only 1/4 of the way to being able to do group content when they hit 50. They still had to do all the questing they did from 1-50 2 more times, plus another 6 veteran ranks worth of xp to reach the cap.

Yes that's the way it is now. My question was why they made VR levels in the first place. Instead of having regular levels like I said above.

I'M on my phone so I won't go further into it but I think this could have all been avoided in the first place.

Because initially there was no endgame. You got to 50, and some people said they wanted to do the other faction's zones on their character that was already leveled up.. so ZOS created VR's to make an end game. People didn't like it, so they started making plans to remove them, since real end game was coming anyway with trials and such.

But it's a lot easier to add levels, than take them away, which made the removal very complicated.

They wanted a system that allowed for longer term progression, but make every level up less impactful than normal character levelups (normal character level impacts a lot of things in regard to character strength, relative crit rates, relative armor effectiveness, even adding a miss chance if you're much higher level than your opponent. A VR1 would straight up whiff on a perfectly aimed attack against a VR16

Personally, I just would have bit the bullet, made the cap 50, left in champion levels but not have them effect gear or character strength beyond the passive effects you put points into, reduced all Tier 6 and above gear down to Tier 5. Ebony/Daedric is the top tier of material in any Elder Scrolls game except ESO.

the team did a huge disservice by not only delaying the VR removal but expanding the VR cap multiple times, just making their job harder as more people became invested in the VR system. Console players never should have had to know VR's in the first place.

Now yes, they are removed, yet there's a gaping hole left from a bloated system being ripped out, now you have Tier 6-9 materials that are basically worthless to anyone who had a VR16 character on their account, good thing for crafting bags making the bloat and excess materials not as noticable I guess, but there's basically no point to gathering in any zones from cadwell's silver up until IC or Wrothgar, I guess upper craglorn for nirncrux, but that's it.

ZOS basically made a mess and drug their feet about cleaning it up until they couldn't clean it up entirely and so there's still stains from the mess they made everywhere earlier.

I actually think they're on the right track tough with places like Craglorn. Some materials SHOULD be from specific parts of Tamriel. Jarrin root for instance should be from Stros M'kai. Saltrice is really more of a Morrowind thing. A lot of items could find they are needed from different locations and I think that would be great! Give crafters a reason to farm a specific map for their purposes. This adds depth to the game. Most of us who do alchemy in this game for instance know that you'll find mushrooms generally in dark places around rocks or next to a tree. Water Hyacinth and Nirnroot are around water. I'm just suggesting I like the idea of making some materials specific to certain Provinces or even narrower regions of the conditions make sense.

I also agree with you that the progression of materials is odd for a TES game.

Gidorick wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

In a perfect world, ESO wouldn't even have a level system at all, just skill levels and champion perk points, but zones wouldn't be level based, some mobs would be tougher than others in the same zone.

You'd then have materials gathered not by what level they are, but how they fit into the geography of the zone.

Like you wouldn't find the same types of trees in Skyrim that you'd find in Summerset isles.

In that system the quality of gear you could wear would be determined by your skill level rather than an overall character level (IE to wear Ebony gear you'd need 45+ in heavy armor)

I disagree that we shouldn't have a level system at all @Arato I DO agree that the surrounding world shouldn't be based on that leveling system in the way that it is. Different sections of each zone should have varied in levels. We should have had the feeling of "woah, I'll come back later" in certain areas of every zone, like deep forest. When low level, we should have had a reason to stay on the roads, not go out at night and not venture too deep into caves and such. Heck, even caves should have multiple "levels" in them. Every zone should have areas of play that are viable for multiple levels of characters.

Having level based crafting materials always struck me as being odd. I get that better materials yield better gear, that's as it should be. but I don't get low level characters not being able to equip high level gear. If you can afford it or make it with an alt, why not? Heck... I would even support an "overleveled gear" negative effect.

Sure you're more protected and you're defense statistics are higher but your movement speed is reduced. Better protected but walking around clumsily.

Oh well. What could have been, eh?