Reevster wrote: »

Thats too bad...maybe now you will actually have to think about some defensive gear instead of all Spell Power and Max magic only, sort of like the other classes have to do.... hmmm ya too bad...

You mean like the two pieces of HA I use, along with impenetrable and HP glyphs on more than half my gear? Still squishy beyond belief. Everything we do to increase survivability also reduces the strength of our shields, so the gains are minimal at best.

Sandman929 wrote: »

As a tank in PvP, I don't shed too many tears for the struggles of people complaining that they can't have high survivability and high damage at the same time anymore. And in reality, they still can if they keep their shields up. Maybe someday ESO will arrive at the conclusion that heavy armor is for damage mitigation, and that players should have to sacrifice power for mitigation.

I'd settle for medium damage and survivability, which is what I had until this update. Now, since I can't cast a shield prior to entering enemy range with any expectation that it will last long enough to absorb anything, I have to wait until I start getting hit, which is usually too late because of squishiness resulting from LA and lag.

PvP is such a laggy, broken mess atm anyway, I'm not even sure why I bother...

Sandman929 wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

As a tank in PvP, I don't shed too many tears for the struggles of people complaining that they can't have high survivability and high damage at the same time anymore. And in reality, they still can if they keep their shields up. Maybe someday ESO will arrive at the conclusion that heavy armor is for damage mitigation, and that players should have to sacrifice power for mitigation.

I'd settle for medium damage and survivability, which is what I had until this update. Now, since I can't cast a shield prior to entering enemy range with any expectation that it will last long enough to absorb anything, I have to wait until I start getting hit, which is usually too late because of squishiness resulting from LA and lag.

PvP is such a laggy, broken mess atm anyway, I'm not even sure why I bother...

Damage is absolutely out of control in this game, and ZOS just keeps swinging the pendulum back and forth between magicka damage and stamina damage. There's no incentive at all for mitigation at the moment, no reason to invest a single attribute point into health or armor because it doesn't buy you anything but a fraction of a second longer to survive.

The extra hps along with a good shield ability buy enough time to heal or withdraw. Remove the shield and I agree, the extra hps do not help much. I switched to my robes last night for the first time in weeks for that very reason...no survivability anyway, so might as well do as much damage as possible. That is not how pvp is supposed to work...defense is supposed to matter...that is one of the things that makes it more fun than pve for a lot of us.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ummm uh oh I just realized something...

The VAST majority of console players do NOT use or visit the forum,

Meaning they have NO IDEA that what's coming. After seeing countless negative feedback regarding the issue, my feelings are this is from a player community mostly aware and informed and ready about such changes.

I will admit, the Xbox community especially, is nowhere near the ... how do I say it... no where near informed or as good (fine I said it) as the PC community.

They are going to flip! They are ill prepared and even more less able to adopt for such changes.

It's gonna be bad...

RoyalPink06 wrote: »

not entirely true can't speak for everyone of course, but I play on PS4 and I surf the forums all the time, like many times a day, and contribute where I can. I check the PC patch notes to get an idea of what to expect on console, cuz usually its like Christmas morning for me I just can't wait to find out what new stuff is coming lol.

However, NOT stoked about all these changes this patch....hoping DB is cool at least. I am preparing to retire my sorc She was too beautiful for this world anyway.

@RoyalPink06 @Waffennacht

I'm on PS4 as well and I scour the forums for patch info & changes because I like to be the guy in my guild who knows stuff about things. A lot of console players are misinformed too, because they get some tangled info about poison second hand from some guy on a keep wall. This actually reminded me to do a quick DB changes fyi for the guild motd.

It would be nice if the console login notification screen at least told you that major game changes are coming with DB and where to find them. Yes, a bunch of consolers will have a download patch one day and wonder what happened. They will need to be (wait for it...) consoled!

As for sorcery changes? Challenge begrudgingly accepted. Conscripts run away when faced with tough odds, but the real, grim soldiers will keep soldiering and scoff at the cowards who fled. After this all dies down, I bet there will be more posts from people vowing to quit playing a sorcerer than posts from folks saying they actually have quit because playing with the new changes is too awful to bear.

I started off agreeing with you, but ended with an awesome! Great post

NBrookus wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Before, there was some skill and knowledge required at getting through a sorc's shields, just like you have to have some skill and different strategies for getting through other class defenses. I can't think of any other class that has repeatedly told people on this forum exactly how to kill them they way sorcs have.

Now with the duration nerf, any zergling can CC a sorc to death by accident.

My sorc is shelved for the duration. On the upside, she's really fast at farming nodes.

Not to mention the correct class/build, it was impossible to break the shields if both players were in the same skill level.

If two players of equal skill can't kill each other unless someone makes a mistake, isn't that a GOOD thing?

The key word there is CAN'T.

it depends on what kind of game your prefer. i would say CAN'T WIN without an opponent error is not good, but that is just me.

Why?

Once the game rules are setup so that winning is dependent on the opponent making a mistake and the best you can hope for is to lose or draw without that mistake and literally you CANNOT win unless the other guy screws up, I would view this as making your offensive choices meaningless. YOU can screw up and lose but you cannot win the fight, only wait for them to hand it to you.

Also, it depends on whether this is true for two defensive sets and defensive styles or every style vs a defensive style.

its not a "trade-off if you cant lose.

Some would see it as being better if a duel between equal skill and equal quality gear there would be the following set of results depending on the focuses of the builds (OFFENSE, DEFENSE, SUSTAIN, MIXED):
BOTH OFFENSIVE - Quick bloody decisive ending.
BOTH DEFENSIVE: .Long fight with 50/50 win vs draw.
BOTH SUSTAIN: Long fight, usually decisive.
With lotsa R-P-S for the various combos.
key being that the rules should balance so that most "A vs B" should result in a decisive outcome with the winner determined on who played best and got luckiest since there is a random element.

But if the "normal results" from a "mixed" or even "offensive" build is long draw... some would see that as indicating too great a rules favor towards defense.

Imagine how much fun most competitions would be if only mistakes allowed for decisive outcomes?

if half the NFL and NBA games were draws or if coaches realized the only way to get "decisive" was to screw up how they would focus on caution instead of aggression then they wouldn't be as popular.

Some have described draws as like "kissing your sister" and so i would expect that if the game rules shift the focus so much towards defense that you cant win unless the enemy screws up, many people would not be happy with that outcome.

YMMV

It's currently pointless to play sorcs and it's not only about shields. My main is/was sorc due to roleplaying reasons. I expected to be them to be quite versatile, based on previous games where you could use large variety of spells. In ESO, sorcerer is basically about using same few spells for the last few patches. Reanimating dead? Useful conjuration creatures? Some variety and perhaps spell crafting? Stamina sorc? Nah. Dump the shield spells. Nevermind the fact, that you would expect from a archetypic sorc to rely on shields or pets. And every patch just makes it worse and lessens variety even further. It's just boring.

Well, sorcs, welcome to our "everyday *** until now"..

You don t want to be ganked, well, you hide, you evaluate the situation, put a few points in health, and be reactive, no more jumping into 4 enemys without thinking.

What they did to your shield is a great balance, it is still there for you, for a quick regen, but not for a damage free fight, what you are angry about is that now, you can die...

"Bouhouhou NB can OS me now" , well same for me (I'm stam blade since the beginning), but if you are quick enough, it won t happen.

And stop raging against "whiners" because 97% of the people reacting in this post are sorc whiners.

Sincerely yours

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.