Keeperz wrote: »

All these people that say shields only last 6 seconds in dungeons clearly have not heard of dodge roll or move out of the red, my shields normally last at least 16 seconds giving me all that time to dps or heal or both. Granted if I'm tanking adds or boss my shields won't last 2 seconds but who plays like this. . . I'll tell ya noobs. I have no stamina and can dodge roll only 2 or 3 times then it's gone so I make sure I do it only when needed. Mix it up with streak for gap creation my shield will constantly be taking damage of course which if it was my health I'd be dead or have to go on the defensive causing a loss to my dps.

Dark exchange uses the resource we need to break cc which makes it useless that extra magika and health will do you no good when you can't break free. Should be renamed useless exchange as I see someone mention. Use dark exchange anywhere in maelstrom except between rounds u r dead.

Surge which was one of my favourite skills is so lacklustre it's hardly worth using

This patch is unacceptable, Wrobels so called sorcerer q and a thread for sorcs was a joke along with the feed back thread ended up being a bloody great waste of time

But at least we can be crit based tanks....... LOL. xD
But Wrobel has been the laughing stock of the community since launch pretty much, so not much has changed there at least.

Now if we could heal through damage like every other magicka class, and I mean reliably not this weak sauce surge heal. That only heals on crit (not happening in PvP) with 3 dots up I was getting 523 HPS last night in my long tests. Not even equal to rally lol. So if we could heal through our damage like NB Templar and DK. And we had a spammable in class, then I would soooooooooooooooooooo fast drop magicka shields, and use a sword and board impen kags, and now have so many options.

But you see that's not the case, because ZOS decided that to balance the healing through damage of other classes we would get magicka SHIELDS, so while we could not stay topped off on health through our DPS we could just shield up and go.

Now I don't shield stack, it's not fun. I walk around with a 12k shield, very easy to burst down. And I heal through my pets which is easy to kill. So I do this and don't shield stack. All ZOS had to do was make it so one shield.ocerwritws the next, and left the timers alone. They instead went the route of having shields be used in reaction to damage so shield up then heal but in that case Healing ward is infinitely better. They have made the shield obsolete, it's just there for when we are getting burst down to try and survive and steak away like cockroaches. They took away our only mitigation and seems to have forgotten why we had it in the first place. That's where our gripes are coming from. We were only great in one aspect of the game and that was solo PvE.

But fear not @FloppyTouch I am theory crafting and adapting and trying to "git gud" as you so eloquently put it. It's just we gots no tools man, our only viable build is the one ZOS built for us in PvE and PvP, and forced us into. A freaking Sorcerer should.have the most tools IMO he's a Sorcerer for Pete's sake... all hail Pete

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Keeperz wrote: »

All these people that say shields only last 6 seconds in dungeons clearly have not heard of dodge roll or move out of the red, my shields normally last at least 16 seconds giving me all that time to dps or heal or both. Granted if I'm tanking adds or boss my shields won't last 2 seconds but who plays like this. . . I'll tell ya noobs. I have no stamina and can dodge roll only 2 or 3 times then it's gone so I make sure I do it only when needed. Mix it up with streak for gap creation my shield will constantly be taking damage of course which if it was my health I'd be dead or have to go on the defensive causing a loss to my dps.

Dark exchange uses the resource we need to break cc which makes it useless that extra magika and health will do you no good when you can't break free. Should be renamed useless exchange as I see someone mention. Use dark exchange anywhere in maelstrom except between rounds u r dead.

Surge which was one of my favourite skills is so lacklustre it's hardly worth using

This patch is unacceptable, Wrobels so called sorcerer q and a thread for sorcs was a joke along with the feed back thread ended up being a bloody great waste of time

But at least we can be crit based tanks....... LOL. xD
But Wrobel has been the laughing stock of the community since launch pretty much, so not much has changed there at least.

I still have no idea WTF a "Crit Tank" is. Lmao. Do they even exist? I have been playing this game since beta days, and not once have I heard or seen someone asking/checking for a "Crit Tank". Not once. Not in PVE, nor PVP... So where Wrobel got this from, I have legitimately no idea. I don't even think people asked for a "Crit Tank" viable build, or skills to complement one. Lmao. I really can't think of when I heard and or seen someone do that either. Lol.

@Wrobel Can you please further elaborate your logic behind this? Because you have me confused af right now, bruh. And I think a lot of others are confused as well.

I'm not so much confused as just convinced that Wrobel doesn't know anything at all about the game he plays, lol.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

What I fail to understand is how people who only play stamina classes don't realize their DPS stat also gives them mitigation. Wrobel himself stated that the intention of shields is to be the magicka version of dodge roll and block which magicka users get very limited use of. I've seen dodges absorb much more than a shield could ever dream to.

What's with all the ignorance of magicka mitigation? These same players pretend they've ever played a magicka spec

You do realise that they certainly can't roll dodge as many times as a sorc can cast a shield! Whilst Roll Dodging they are doing no damage. Whilst a shield is up, its God mode you can spam pulse and frags then after 6 seconds recast and continue. If you put a low figure of 10k dps that 60k damage before you cast another shield!
If you have roll dodged its because your avoiding something big whilst eating the little bits of damage, so you still need to heal, as well as dodge, block and try to do damage with all the same Skill pool. Rather than Healing ward (if required), Harness Magica, hardened ward, light attack pulse, frag(if Proc'd) rinse repeat.

I play all classes, and Sorc has always been by far the easiest, this change has made it much more exciting. I still prefer my Magica Templar though.

Ahhh lol I love when people end with I PLAY ALL CLASSES. Then you read what they posted and it seems like at most they got to the starter island lol.

See dodge roll completely negates damage. If 2 characters are getting burst down one with shields and one Stam character dodge rolling, the guy with shields will die as he is taking every single hit, the guy dodge rolling will negate all that damage, dodge roll to somewhere where he can LOS and then choose to stay or speed up and hall tail outta there. Shields don't scale with more players roll dodge does. And now with well fitted whew doggy roll dodge to infinity and beyond lol.

We get punished for streaking and punished for shielding now. But yep that's the easiest.

I have actually played each class to vr16 took them all to PvP all of them have proxy for a good while now.

And in PvE NB and Templar are the easiest to use especially with all that healing, don't ave to stop your rotation to heal lol) Followed by sorc then a few clicks away MagDK. MagDK without a doubt one of the harder to master.

Then in PvP the MagNB is faaaar and beyond the easiest to use, it is way to HAX for me tastes. Templars are fun and well balanced honestly great damage burst healing they just really need mobility. I have taken to using Stam & potions on mine it's nice but still in class is always better. Then the mag sorc, people copy the sypher build shield stack and mine camp and it was good no doubt, but we basically stole kills or mined up and ran, still though we were good in PvP. MagDK, I ee people using it wrong and wanting the wrong things out of it all the time. Honestly @FloppyTouch is one of the first times on these forums I have heard someone say it correctly.

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I play magic dK for the last 2 years I can bust sorcs down just took inhale proxy fossilize meteor proc whip all timed at the same time you know this thing called skill. Not stack shield and hide in mines

this is the DK you can set up burst but it's not a burst class. They too need mobility. I play a let Sorc however and I have found success with it in PvP. But that success has been tied to tightly to my hardened ward, as every niche sorc that's actually viable you have to use shield it's the only mitigation ZOS has given. And now we have to use ward every 3 seconds lest we perish EASILY.

Crit tanks are for the MagSorcs not the StamSorcs. He means shield stack and dot the boss enemy. But it doesn't work like that, not good anyway. I use to tank WGT no problem with just hardened (spamming it all the way of course lol) we brought along a magSorc to tank VMoL and what killed him was the first boss going into his auto kill mode, because we all had died years ago and he was still going. Now he had to invest aLot to get his sorc tank there and it's a very well crafted build. But he did it. But now it doesn't really work as when a boss CC's me that's it. My shields will just run out and I am through lol. And that's when we are supposed to rely on the new crit tank mechanic so while we get cc'd we take the heals and cam get out. But it does not work that way at all. He has no clue what he is doing.

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I'm not too bothered... Shields only last around 4-5 seconds in vet dungeons and around 3 seconds in vet maelstrom anyway.

Lol you must only stand in red WTF. When you see red circles move out of them, your shields will last much longer if you do. I guarantee it.

I do mostly pug's for vet dungeons so when I'm on my sorc you generally have one tank that doesn't tank, he/she waits for me to take the lead during trash pulls and then I have one dps with zero aoes spamming wrecking blow, so it's shield up, lightning flood down and pulsar spam = 4-5 sec ward. I can think of a myriad of bosses that one shot shields without "red circles" too. Take dark root and skoria for example,. I also use all divines for proper crit dps rather than having infused to maximize shield strength.

Shields should be reaction based. When you know the boss is about to do unavoidable damage, pop a shield. This isn't rocket science people. Not going too much further into the debate because out of my eight characters my Stam and mag sorc are both very boring to play. Kena overload sorcs are great for speed running vet dungeons... Always have been and still are with this patch. I'd just advise people to have the matriarch on your overload bar, she adds around 4K dps to the boss and with warhorn up you'll be hitting 40k overloads without scathing Mage or dual wield. Sorcs are still op as hell.

With the nerf to surge, change to a magicka nb sort of set up, what's surge healing for? 3,500 guaranteed (with 70% crit at least lightning flood or crushing shock or your medium weave would have crit) per second? Add rapid regen and have healing Ward as a back up. Stam sorcs will have to run the bloodthirst morph of rapid strikes but should have great off heals with the two combined.

This nerf isn't nearly as bad as others this patch.

LOL just lol. Where's am LOL button when you need one?

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I'm not too bothered... Shields only last around 4-5 seconds in vet dungeons and around 3 seconds in vet maelstrom anyway.

Lol you must only stand in red WTF. When you see red circles move out of them, your shields will last much longer if you do. I guarantee it.

I do mostly pug's for vet dungeons so when I'm on my sorc you generally have one tank that doesn't tank, he/she waits for me to take the lead during trash pulls and then I have one dps with zero aoes spamming wrecking blow, so it's shield up, lightning flood down and pulsar spam = 4-5 sec ward. I can think of a myriad of bosses that one shot shields without "red circles" too. Take dark root and skoria for example,. I also use all divines for proper crit dps rather than having infused to maximize shield strength.

Shields should be reaction based. When you know the boss is about to do unavoidable damage, pop a shield. This isn't rocket science people. Not going too much further into the debate because out of my eight characters my Stam and mag sorc are both very boring to play. Kena overload sorcs are great for speed running vet dungeons... Always have been and still are with this patch. I'd just advise people to have the matriarch on your overload bar, she adds around 4K dps to the boss and with warhorn up you'll be hitting 40k overloads without scathing Mage or dual wield. Sorcs are still op as hell.

With the nerf to surge, change to a magicka nb sort of set up, what's surge healing for? 3,500 guaranteed (with 70% crit at least lightning flood or crushing shock or your medium weave would have crit) per second? Add rapid regen and have healing Ward as a back up. Stam sorcs will have to run the bloodthirst morph of rapid strikes but should have great off heals with the two combined.

This nerf isn't nearly as bad as others this patch.

So you're trying to say that NB's are weak..... LOL. xD
Please go and L2P if you think a NB is worse than a sorc. xD

holosoul wrote: »

What I fail to understand is how people who only play stamina classes don't realize their DPS stat also gives them mitigation. Wrobel himself stated that the intention of shields is to be the magicka version of dodge roll and block which magicka users get very limited use of. I've seen dodges absorb much more than a shield could ever dream to.

What's with all the ignorance of magicka mitigation? These same players pretend they've ever played a magicka spec

DB puts it at:
Dodge and i avoid lotsa attacks for a second or so. Quick repeats increase cost. uses key-click every time.
Shield and i absorb a ton of damage over 6 sec max or a good amount over 10 sec. uses one key click for each new refresh of dmg/duration.

I can see where that makes sense as the sort of mitigation balance between sta/mag. Sure for mag a slot is used but also, for sorcs at least, you have bonus slots.

of course, have to think a bit to see what we should have that equates to undodgable attacks? maybe channels should also ignore shields completely like they do dodge?1

So for those wanting shields back at 20sec... using this parallel, should dodge cover say 5 sec per use?

Here's the thing this myth that a Sorc can burst down these bosses so much better in PvE, the low health one. Well Templars NB and DK are getting our numbers on them with a meteor and their regular rotation. So they dump one ultimate and we dump our OL and it's the same, alot of times less.

We have less slots to work with than other classes even with OL. Because ZOS decided we must be Togglemancers. So if I want to run pets. I need to triple stack them, so it's 2 pets 3 times each 6 out of those 15 are gone for just 2 abilities, pets scale off Magicka so bound aegis has to be on or inner light. So that's another 3, so 9 if we want to be useful, that's 6 left, so to run a pet build we will have 6 skill slots 2 on each bar. It's not feasible. OL bar is cool and all but it's not a bonus it's a necessity, as we simply don't have room with all the toggles in the class.

So here is the Sorc problem with wards once again, sigh... where a DK a Templar and a NB heal reliably through damage, and heal ALOT, they don't need extra mitigation on top of their in class abilities to survive. Sorcs got crit surge and it's not reliable and is no where near comparable. If I am in a dungeon and looking to die, I spam inhale once or twice or collect on the flame slash heal lol, if I am on my Templar just keep jabbing, on my NB funnel and SAP even lay down a healing path. A Sorc used shield and then did dps, everyone else just does DPS to mitigate. We were given near the HPS of funnel, well ummmm that's not all hey use they also use SAP which is huge. Templar jabbing is very hard to kill even with tons of mobs and my DK welcomes it inhale is amazing now my favorite skill in game honestly.

Now here it is, sorcs are the weakest class in the game both stamina and magicka, our DPS at end game is at the bottom. So we bring no real utility to the group, all a Sorc brigs to a raid is DPS. But here's the sad part, that one thing we bring everyone does better, magicka templars DK and NB are and they provide utility, Stam DK leaves us and everyone in the dust and Stam NB and Templar are higher or at the very least equal lol. So here are Sorcs at the bottom of the DPS chain. With no utility, so serious raid groups only really want 1 sorc for the crit bonus then no more as a mag sorc spot would be better handled by a magNB DK Templar.

Wards take tooltip damage no mitigation of that, so you can get around a 12k hardened at endgame, and for that you have to sacrifice stamina, meaning we are easily CC locked and killed if we are not EXTRA stingy with how we use it. Shields were our only mitigation in PvP as critsurge does not work well vs impen. To get our pet heal we have to double or triple slot her. So shields, My Templar in impen is much tankier than muy sorc with 12k shields, as once I am jabbing them my health is being stabilized and if it gets hairy breath and then back to jabbing. NB just says bye and a DK inhales and replies their heal dot and are just tanky. It's not balanced but hopefully ZOS will see this experiment has failed and fix it.

cpuScientist wrote: »

We have less slots to work with than other classes even with OL. Because ZOS decided we must be Togglemancers. So if I want to run pets. I need to triple stack them, so it's 2 pets 3 times each 6 out of those 15 are gone for just 2 abilities, pets scale off Magicka so bound aegis has to be on or inner light. So that's another 3, so 9 if we want to be useful, that's 6 left, so to run a pet build we will have 6 skill slots 2 on each bar. It's not feasible. OL bar is cool and all but it's not a bonus it's a necessity, as we simply don't have room with all the toggles in the class.

Again with this myth/propaganda.

First, using YOUR example, ZOS did not make you a "togglemancer" you did. You said it "if i want to run pets" and then chose to run two pets. Hint: As many top end players point out you dont need or nec even benefit from pets at top play. So pets are a choice. Like EVERY OTHER CLASS sorcs dont have to slot every class skill to survive. So, use of the slot-hungry toggle pets is just a preference, a personal choice and NOT something "ZOS DECIDED WE MUST."

Sorcs are the only class that CAN slot every class skill. Most have to ignore at least 6 of the 18.

Second, using YOUR example, after slotting 3 toggles (accepting for sake of argument YOUR assumption of the need for magica buff from bound aegis or inner light for the magica) your sorc has SIX slots remaining and "its not feasible."

But s Magblade or Magplar who slots two non-toggles AND the Inner Light toggle (same need for magica buff as sorc since all their msgica skilks scale too) has how many other slots left??? SIX if we use your math. (Yes, you slot 2 pets eho give ypu say thrir basic damage and aggro plus lets say an aoe and a mag-based multiperson heal and the other guys slot two skill but theu count against the slot total.)

So a sorc who chose to run a two pet, inner-or-aegies build has SIX slots left and thats not feasible. But at the same time, either a magplar ot magblade who chose to run a build with inner toggle and 2 other skills has SIX slots left.

For many people, including some sorc fanatics, SIX = SIX but for some SIX < SIX and "We have less slots to work with than other classes even with OL."

Now, i am not saying pets are great, in fact i think they need work and fully support that and have posted numerous times with suggestions.

Now, I am also not saying "pets sux dont use 'em." Both of my cp160 sorc havevfully developed pet lines, one ran dbl pets mostly and while my third sorc, a stam sorc who just got started, might not do much with them unless they get a rules change to scale off higher stat, its not clear yet.

Now, I am also not saying sorcs are dead or sorcs are OP or even sorcs are fine. Like much of the gamem sorcs had a lot of changes in DB. My first was a sorc and sorcs make up three of my ten live characters right now. My bet is that there will be tweaks for balance to some things as we all see how things play out in context of DB WORLD and not in the context of "what isolated element x was in pre-DB" vs "what isolated element x is in DB."



What i am saying and backing up with basic math skills is the oft-repeated lines about sorc toggles and the dreaded slot-gap such as you expressed with "We have less slots to work with than other classes even with OL." just plain and simple a misleading, incorrect claim.

STEVIL wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

What I fail to understand is how people who only play stamina classes don't realize their DPS stat also gives them mitigation. Wrobel himself stated that the intention of shields is to be the magicka version of dodge roll and block which magicka users get very limited use of. I've seen dodges absorb much more than a shield could ever dream to.

What's with all the ignorance of magicka mitigation? These same players pretend they've ever played a magicka spec

DB puts it at:
Dodge and i avoid lotsa attacks for a second or so. Quick repeats increase cost. uses key-click every time.
Shield and i absorb a ton of damage over 6 sec max or a good amount over 10 sec. uses one key click for each new refresh of dmg/duration.

I can see where that makes sense as the sort of mitigation balance between sta/mag. Sure for mag a slot is used but also, for sorcs at least, you have bonus slots.

of course, have to think a bit to see what we should have that equates to undodgable attacks? maybe channels should also ignore shields completely like they do dodge?1

So for those wanting shields back at 20sec... using this parallel, should dodge cover say 5 sec per use?

Dodge is not the parallel to shields lol OMG. Shields you take the hit, most shields are down in light attack WB. A dodge avoids all damage except channels. It's different and obvious. Light armor offers less defense, less stamina to block or dodgeroll. And honestly crappier heals, my vigor rally dodgeroll heals me right on up. If you all are unable to see the differences then lol.

ZOS just one it's, make the dodge and block use Magicka instead of stamina and see the Stam builds weap.