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Good job making sorcs completely useless in PvE
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cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
When your all out, go setup your Sorc with a non shield dependent build. It's been a whole 2 days since the DLC came out. Every class pretty much has to reconsider one thing or another with this DLC. Get back up on your horse and get back in the battle. If not, good luck in your other game.
LOL, most sorcs have to completely rethink their builds just to survive while NB's and templars can just spam one spell over and over and stay alive forever. xD
You mean like Sorc's re-casting their shields now? And those WB spammers who now can't CC and stun....
Sorcs are at least using 2 shields in PvP, 3 if they want to. And that's chewed through by most players in a matter of seconds. One shield on it's own is like 1 attack with hardened ward sitting at 11-12k in PvP.
Time to stop depending on shields maybe. I ditched mine. Try stuff like crit surge and degeneration as a start. Strap a resto on that back bar and go to town if that's not enough.
If that still doesn't help, you're probably still trying face-first tactics you grew used to with shields. Hang back now, use range, use los, and find combos to land.
Btw proxy isn't the only det. I bet the near future will bring out the red headed step morph.
See and here is another problem... Sorcerers are already forced to slot a fire destruction staff as their main weapon because we are the only class that has no spammable ability. Now thanks to the heavy nerfs to the class's survivability that didn't come coupled with any buffs to the class's utility or damage, we are also forced into a restoration staff.
It is really lame and the more reliant we become on weapon skills the least damage we do as well as sorcerers gain extra damage for having sorcerer skill slotted in their bars.
Stam sorc has no spammable ability or functional damage abilties - unless you want to count hurricane as a damage ability.
Sorc has cursed and frag procs with an execute that can be preapplied. This has always been core to burst, and burst is core to kills.
If youre playing in your mines, you can tie in more preset *class based damage skills* in that window, and this is before an ult.
They actually have tools, they arent meant to have a spammable DPS ability. Weaving with a destro can fill that roll if needed, and it outperforms weaving bow. Sorcs can still play to their strengths. Shields have been broken for so long, people dont even know that the class exists without them. Shields are the reason I stopped playing magicka sorc, they are so brokenly simple.
Was this change the right fix to shields? I dont think it was, I think there are better solutions, and people have suggested them to no end. But ZOS solutions their way. Thats why my stam sorc has always been and still is weaker than the class people are complaining about in this thread that has been arguably the most well rounded build over the course of the last year straight.
Its fine to complain - welcome to the club. If you expect to gain support, youre unlikely to. This thread is more of less a place for magicka sorcs to gather and complain and earn themselves condescending replies from other players - rightfully so at times.
I dont blame magicka sorcs for playing how they have, they had to ever since ZOS changed armor mitigation way back.
But is your class dead? Nope. You can still perform quite fine. Your shield strength is still there, you just have to have increasing awareness in using it rather than blindly applying it and carrying on about your 100% offensive business until someone decides to turn your direction.
For PvE they're dead though, at best comparable dps to other classes while having no utility for the group at all while all other classes does the same or more dps while buffing the entire group. Now tell me, which of those would you take for a trial etc if you had a choice?R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »My sorc was my main since the game started. I now have a maxed out character of every class, so I can get a good feel of how they balance out (disclaimer:mainly from a PvE perspective with some PvP tossed in for flavor). This was a large nerf, but I'm testing out various builds to find a way to work around it. I've never abandoned a class after a nerf, and didn't only play the FOTM either. I got most of the way through VMsA with my sorc, but it seems a LOT harder now. I'm hoping to adapt and finish the last 3 levels of it.
What is the new FOTM with this patch? I don't think it's my Templar, although she's at least a solid character. It's probably my magicka Nightblade, although my stam Nightblade is right there too. I'm still trying to adjust my DK to the changes from fire to poison.
Stamina DKs and Magicka Nightblades (I think) for PvE DPS.
Stamina Nightblades for PvP burst.
Templars, still firmly the best healers in the game
DKs, still firmly the best tanks in most circumstances.
That's pretty much the roles that I run each class for. I'm going to test out the new tanking setup, as I'm hearing that tanking got a boost and I've seen some vids that make me want to revisit it with my DK. I really can't figure out what role my sorc will play yet. It doesn't seem like it could be the top in any of the roles."Get off my lawn!"0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.Edited by hedna123b14_ESO on June 2, 2016 6:14PM4 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭rotaugen454 wrote: »rotaugen454 wrote: »My sorc was my main since the game started. I now have a maxed out character of every class, so I can get a good feel of how they balance out (disclaimer:mainly from a PvE perspective with some PvP tossed in for flavor). This was a large nerf, but I'm testing out various builds to find a way to work around it. I've never abandoned a class after a nerf, and didn't only play the FOTM either. I got most of the way through VMsA with my sorc, but it seems a LOT harder now. I'm hoping to adapt and finish the last 3 levels of it.
What is the new FOTM with this patch? I don't think it's my Templar, although she's at least a solid character. It's probably my magicka Nightblade, although my stam Nightblade is right there too. I'm still trying to adjust my DK to the changes from fire to poison.
Stamina DKs and Magicka Nightblades (I think) for PvE DPS.
Stamina Nightblades for PvP burst.
Templars, still firmly the best healers in the game
DKs, still firmly the best tanks in most circumstances.
That's pretty much the roles that I run each class for. I'm going to test out the new tanking setup, as I'm hearing that tanking got a boost and I've seen some vids that make me want to revisit it with my DK. I really can't figure out what role my sorc will play yet. It doesn't seem like it could be the top in any of the roles.
Nope, currently sorcerers can't be the best in any of those roles. They do great bankers, crafters and harvesters though.1 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I'm sorry, but ever since the removal of soft caps and the introduction of the Champion System and up until this patch, Magicka Sorcerers have been the most brain dead easy class to play, up to a point where people just quit playing Magicka Sorcerer altogether, because of pure boredom. It's perfectly fine if you never really knew how to play your Sorcerer, but that doesn't make this any less true.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
If you think ProxDet MagBlades were stronger than Magicka Sorcerers have been the past year, you clearly don't really have a firm grasp on how ESO abilities work.ParaNostram wrote: »
And now you're just trying to defend your OP class. xD
4 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If i was to tell all of you I have a really really good Sorc Battle Mage build that makes you:
1. Tanky as can be
2. Hits like a Truck with close to 4k Spell Damage buffed
3. Very good regen values
4. High defense and mobility
5. Phenominal healing
Would you all be interested in a build video?
I don't care if your friend or foe, even though Sorc is no longer my main toon, I did Theory Craft this build and NO ONE else in Cyrodiil is running anything remotely close to it...in open world solo roaming i went 163-3 with it, in the hands of a player even more skilled then me you will eat most other classes for breakfast.
If folks are interested reply here, i'll make a build video tonight i'll show you everything from champ points to gear and everything else in between....this build is significantly more powerful then Sorc's were last patch, and the good thing is its not a huge investment to get up and running, the playstyle is slightly different, but once you get used to it, you will wonder how you could ever play Sorc any other way.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak9 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »sirrmattus wrote: »So funny. Now sorcs will actually have to slot some comparable health and l2p vs just going in max magick max damage
Says the ones playing the godmode class, LOL. Play another class and L2P before you speak.
^ so i was reading into this thread with curiosity to see if there was an issue with sorc until i met this comment. it was at this point i realized you were just bad and sorc is probably just fine.
Problems with sorcerers (At least PvE wise):- Extremely poor group Utility.
- Low DPS numbers with both Magicka and stamina builds
- Extremely rigid builds at least for magicka DPS. THe lack of a spammable ability locks Magicka sorcerer's main weapon as a fire destro staff, weapon that isn't benefited at all by our passives.
- Very poor survivability. Surge, our supposed HoT is unreliable as it depends on crits and weaker than other classes HoTs. Our burst heals are locked either behind a pet which requires two or three bar slots or behind a 1.5 interruptible cast time, Our shields duration were nerfed by 70% of their original duration while their cost was actually increased and no utility or any sort of buff was added to them, at least Harness magicka got a buff to compensate its duration nerf.
- Near to no mitigation skills makes sorcerers the worse tanks in the game.
- Heals locked behind a pet and the number of toggles plaguing our bars don't allow sorcerer healers to slot all the skills they'd need to be good raid healers.
Essentially, sorcerers are not good in any PvE role, they have low or equal damage to other classes while bringing no utility what so ever, they can't tank efficiently or heal...
My build:
1. Group utility - check
2. 35k+ single target
3. No spammable necessary. No flame staff on main bar
4. Survivability is amazing since you don't have to melee to AoE.
Main sorc for CSH is pulling 39k on the 2nd boss of vMoL leaving the Nightblades in the dust. It's not a matter of viabiliry, it's a matter of skill. Stam DK'S pull crazy numbers currently, but to pull 45k on Rakhhat takes great skill because of all of the dots you are using.4 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm sorry, but ever since the removal of soft caps and the introduction of the Champion System and up until this patch, Magicka Sorcerers have been the most brain dead easy class to play, up to a point where people just quit playing Magicka Sorcerer altogether, because of pure boredom. It's perfectly fine if you never really knew how to play your Sorcerer, but that doesn't make this any less true.cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
If you think ProxDet MagBlades were stronger than Magicka Sorcerers have been the past year, you clearly don't really have a firm grasp on how ESO abilities work.ParaNostram wrote: »
And now you're just trying to defend your OP class. xD
Sorry to say this, but magicka NB is the most brain dead godmode class to play for a quite a while now. And you trying to defend them is just hilarious. NB's need big nerfs.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »If i was to tell all of you I have a really really good Sorc Battle Mage build that makes you:
1. Tanky as can be
2. Hits like a Truck with close to 4k Spell Damage buffed
3. Very good regen values
4. High defense and mobility
5. Phenominal healing
Would you all be interested in a build video?
I don't care if your friend or foe, even though Sorc is no longer my main toon, I did Theory Craft this build and NO ONE else in Cyrodiil is running anything remotely close to it...in open world solo roaming i went 163-3 with it, in the hands of a player even more skilled then me you will eat most other classes for breakfast.
If folks are interested reply here, i'll make a build video tonight i'll show you everything from champ points to gear and everything else in between....this build is significantly more powerful then Sorc's were last patch, and the good thing is its not a huge investment to get up and running, the playstyle is slightly different, but once you get used to it, you will wonder how you could ever play Sorc any other way.
Share it, but again, sorcerer's greater problem is in PvE, not so much in PvP. Still, ideas are always welcome.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »If i was to tell all of you I have a really really good Sorc Battle Mage build that makes you:
1. Tanky as can be
2. Hits like a Truck with close to 4k Spell Damage buffed
3. Very good regen values
4. High defense and mobility
5. Phenominal healing
Would you all be interested in a build video?
I don't care if your friend or foe, even though Sorc is no longer my main toon, I did Theory Craft this build and NO ONE else in Cyrodiil is running anything remotely close to it...in open world solo roaming i went 163-3 with it, in the hands of a player even more skilled then me you will eat most other classes for breakfast.
If folks are interested reply here, i'll make a build video tonight i'll show you everything from champ points to gear and everything else in between....this build is significantly more powerful then Sorc's were last patch, and the good thing is its not a huge investment to get up and running, the playstyle is slightly different, but once you get used to it, you will wonder how you could ever play Sorc any other way.
Share it, but again, sorcerer's greater problem is in PvE, not so much in PvP. Still, ideas are always welcome.
Yes this is a PVP only build, I don't do high level end game PVe on Sorc anymore
Well if there is enough interest i'll share my Battlemage Build.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Fixed title to show which area of the game I meant.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
jcaceresw✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »If i was to tell all of you I have a really really good Sorc Battle Mage build that makes you:
1. Tanky as can be
2. Hits like a Truck with close to 4k Spell Damage buffed
3. Very good regen values
4. High defense and mobility
5. Phenominal healing
Would you all be interested in a build video?
I don't care if your friend or foe, even though Sorc is no longer my main toon, I did Theory Craft this build and NO ONE else in Cyrodiil is running anything remotely close to it...in open world solo roaming i went 163-3 with it, in the hands of a player even more skilled then me you will eat most other classes for breakfast.
If folks are interested reply here, i'll make a build video tonight i'll show you everything from champ points to gear and everything else in between....this build is significantly more powerful then Sorc's were last patch, and the good thing is its not a huge investment to get up and running, the playstyle is slightly different, but once you get used to it, you will wonder how you could ever play Sorc any other way.
Share it, but again, sorcerer's greater problem is in PvE, not so much in PvP. Still, ideas are always welcome.
Yes this is a PVP only build, I don't do high level end game PVe on Sorc anymore
Well if there is enough interest i'll share my Battlemage Build.
Oh well, I thought it was for PVE too but I think I can make some modifications to your build. Please share it.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.
Utility:
1. Minor vulnerability in all adds and boss (no dps has to run a poison. Since no one wants to run these in PvE)
2. Swap out curse in my setup for mines and you buff the group with minor spell crit.
3. At least 2 sorcs in a group will be amazing, both bosses in vMoL and trash to all have minor vulnerability will skyrocket group DPS.
4. Ranging AoE allows less strain on the healer.
5. Need I go on? Plus thelse 40-45 k dps parses you are talking about, can you link them? I only know one person on NA server pulling these numbers and that's Slayer on his stam DK. Sorcs will bring huge dps and huge utility into the group.3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »sirrmattus wrote: »So funny. Now sorcs will actually have to slot some comparable health and l2p vs just going in max magick max damage
Says the ones playing the godmode class, LOL. Play another class and L2P before you speak.
^ so i was reading into this thread with curiosity to see if there was an issue with sorc until i met this comment. it was at this point i realized you were just bad and sorc is probably just fine.
Problems with sorcerers (At least PvE wise):- Extremely poor group Utility.
- Low DPS numbers with both Magicka and stamina builds
- Extremely rigid builds at least for magicka DPS. THe lack of a spammable ability locks Magicka sorcerer's main weapon as a fire destro staff, weapon that isn't benefited at all by our passives.
- Very poor survivability. Surge, our supposed HoT is unreliable as it depends on crits and weaker than other classes HoTs. Our burst heals are locked either behind a pet which requires two or three bar slots or behind a 1.5 interruptible cast time, Our shields duration were nerfed by 70% of their original duration while their cost was actually increased and no utility or any sort of buff was added to them, at least Harness magicka got a buff to compensate its duration nerf.
- Near to no mitigation skills makes sorcerers the worse tanks in the game.
- Heals locked behind a pet and the number of toggles plaguing our bars don't allow sorcerer healers to slot all the skills they'd need to be good raid healers.
Essentially, sorcerers are not good in any PvE role, they have low or equal damage to other classes while bringing no utility what so ever, they can't tank efficiently or heal...
My build:
1. Group utility - check
2. 35k+ single target
3. No spammable necessary. No flame staff on main bar
4. Survivability is amazing since you don't have to melee to AoE.
Main sorc for CSH is pulling 39k on the 2nd boss of vMoL leaving the Nightblades in the dust. It's not a matter of viabiliry, it's a matter of skill. Stam DK'S pull crazy numbers currently, but to pull 45k on Rakhhat takes great skill because of all of the dots you are using.
Eh... What group utility does your build brings exactly? Remember, I actually looked at that build, you use shooting Star and Overload as ultimates and no utility skills...0 -
iam117✭✭✭
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.
to be completely fair, the people who are achieving those numbers are less that 1% of the game, and that group utility, buffs dont stack, so at most 66% of the group could be applying buffs from their normal rotation, especially because they are on almost 100% of the time, 30%+ people will never be applying buffs. still plenty of room for some sorcs, especially because in vmol their dps will do more than all but the most talented players who can get it on just about any class anyways with enough practice.
what is more important than the buffs is finding people who can:
1: actually hit those numbers (usually 1-3 people in a raid get significantly more than the rest)
2: hit those numbers while following mechanics AND being a team player (ever sit on the ground waiting for a blind dps to res you?)
i would much rather play with a sorc who can get good numbers and knows how to play the game, not just their class, than some op dps that is out to post the highest parse.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol3 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that sorcerers were nerfed in the last patch.
But not all sorcerers are weak and bad.
I'm actually doing quite well in both pvp and pve with my sorcerer.
Today I won in 1vx in cyrodiil, more than once.
Dueling with sorcerer is not bad either.
But the nerf to shield is pain and I do need to recast it more than before the patch.
Also, I'm not using the cookie cutter build since I tried to be somewhat unique and compensate the shields nerf.
There is no need to auto kick sorcerers from group and this kind of practice is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »I wonder how long it will take before the Scrubcerers adapt and threads like this stop appearing.
Hopefully we will outlast trolls like you.rotaugen454 wrote: »My Sorc is NOT useless! He is a master crafter and mixes a martini with panache..
LOL, alright, you are one of the lucky ones that survive the Dark Brotherhood and retired to be crafters, bankers, mixologists...? That last one is a new one XDAfter the last year of Sorc reign. The tears are like a sweet waterfall.
Exactly what planet are you inhabiting that sorcerers have been so good for the past year? I want to move there...
First you have to crawl out from under your rock. Then go watch youtube 1vx videos. Sorc has been the strongest class for awhile now. And the biggest reason was they could stack the biggest shield.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.
Utility:
1. Minor vulnerability in all adds and boss (no dps has to run a poison. Since no one wants to run these in PvE)
2. Swap out curse in my setup for mines and you buff the group with minor spell crit.
3. At least 2 sorcs in a group will be amazing, both bosses in vMoL and trash to all have minor vulnerability will skyrocket group DPS.
4. Ranging AoE allows less strain on the healer.
5. Need I go on? Plus thelse 40-45 k dps parses you are talking about, can you link them? I only know one person on NA server pulling these numbers and that's Slayer on his stam DK. Sorcs will bring huge dps and huge utility into the group.
Yes, I do need you to keep going because Minor Vulnerability and Minor Prophecy do not compare to the sort of Utility other classes bring when you take into account Shell , Nova, Veil, etc.
Understand, I have nothing against your build, I am actually very interested on it, but it does not fix the serious issues with the sorcerer class. My objective with this threads is for Zenimax to realize the class is struggling because from his Q&A, @Wrobel seems to think we are doing just fine, which we are not.Edited by Grao on June 2, 2016 6:37PM0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Nope. XD
But I'm willing to bet anything that you're not here to listen to viable alternatives to shield stacking Sorc. You just want to have your moan. So, do so. However, sorcerers aren't broken at all.
Like what shall we use? We got liquid lightning as a decent spell, possibly frags, the rest are quite mediocre or just plain useless. The sorc skills have been curbstomped over and over again and there's barely anything nice to use now.
Frags. Still good.
Liquid lightning. Still good.
Hurricane.
Surge.
Overload.
Mage's wrath/fury.
Mix and match with others. Learn to adapt.
Surge is useless now, tried it on the PTS, not worth the slot to use, fury is the worst execute in the game, Overload is the most boring ultimate in the game and you get better results by slotting meteor. Hurricane is stam so can't say anything about that, but the magicka version is useless if we got to stand and hug the enemies for it to work.
How do you gain your major buffs then if it isn't worth a slot? (What is he actual change to surge btw, I couldn't find it on the patch notes?)
But anyway, I think sorcs will be alright (in PvP terms) you cast your shields more often than 6 seconds anyway and with the annulment change you can now also take a lot of physical damage.
People saying sorcs will now be cannon fodder, I'm curious as to what change makes you think this, in PvP terms I mean.
I personally can't wait for the update, at first I was skeptical and don't like the fact all classes now basically have access to hardened ward through the new annulment. But I'm going to try a heavy armor sorc and see how that goes.
Although, I have levelled a StamBlade incase the changes are worse then I anticipated.
But yeah sorcs for PvE are garbage, low DPS and now it's going to be even lower since we have to cast shields a lot more often wasting time we could be DPS'ing
0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »sirrmattus wrote: »So funny. Now sorcs will actually have to slot some comparable health and l2p vs just going in max magick max damage
Says the ones playing the godmode class, LOL. Play another class and L2P before you speak.
^ so i was reading into this thread with curiosity to see if there was an issue with sorc until i met this comment. it was at this point i realized you were just bad and sorc is probably just fine.
Problems with sorcerers (At least PvE wise):- Extremely poor group Utility.
- Low DPS numbers with both Magicka and stamina builds
- Extremely rigid builds at least for magicka DPS. THe lack of a spammable ability locks Magicka sorcerer's main weapon as a fire destro staff, weapon that isn't benefited at all by our passives.
- Very poor survivability. Surge, our supposed HoT is unreliable as it depends on crits and weaker than other classes HoTs. Our burst heals are locked either behind a pet which requires two or three bar slots or behind a 1.5 interruptible cast time, Our shields duration were nerfed by 70% of their original duration while their cost was actually increased and no utility or any sort of buff was added to them, at least Harness magicka got a buff to compensate its duration nerf.
- Near to no mitigation skills makes sorcerers the worse tanks in the game.
- Heals locked behind a pet and the number of toggles plaguing our bars don't allow sorcerer healers to slot all the skills they'd need to be good raid healers.
Essentially, sorcerers are not good in any PvE role, they have low or equal damage to other classes while bringing no utility what so ever, they can't tank efficiently or heal...
My build:
1. Group utility - check
2. 35k+ single target
3. No spammable necessary. No flame staff on main bar
4. Survivability is amazing since you don't have to melee to AoE.
Main sorc for CSH is pulling 39k on the 2nd boss of vMoL leaving the Nightblades in the dust. It's not a matter of viabiliry, it's a matter of skill. Stam DK'S pull crazy numbers currently, but to pull 45k on Rakhhat takes great skill because of all of the dots you are using.
Eh... What group utility does your build brings exactly? Remember, I actually looked at that build, you use shooting Star and Overload as ultimates and no utility skills...
I wrote it down like 3 times, if you read something try to pay attention. Minor VULNERABILITY for 10 seconds off the 1st tick of a heavy. That means as you AoE second boss of vMoL you can shift from add to add and they will all gain the debuff.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is pretty funny. A lot of the people complaining about Sorcerers I'm assuming were only using the class to stack shields and use Overload. But, Sorcerers are far more deeper than that. And any "true" Sorcerer will tell you this. Granted the class feels overall much weaker now, and I'll probably main my Magicka Dragonknight... I still crush with my Sorcerer. Even more ironic, a pet build Sorcerer. It's hilarious to see FOTM Stamina Dragonknights and Nightblades run for their lives from a familiar and twilight, while getting merked-on via Crushing Shocks, C-Frags, and Overload light attacks.
your assumption would be wrong. i used Hardened ward as my only shield on a destro/dual wield, high crit build relying on Surge for heals, Dawnbreaker was my ult. that build was crushed with DB.
it's destro/resto i wouldn't be able to get out of that.
I always used Destro/Resto for my magicka builds. I understand the premise behind dual-wielding for the Overload bar, and all that jazz for higher damage... But like... How you call yourself a mage without using staves? Not to mention Destro/Resto complementing themselves beautifully, with one assisting with damage and penetration; the other providing sustain and healing? FOTM Sorcerers with their destruction staves, dual-wielded swords, are feeling the heat now. And that says it a lot honestly. It really does...
And please don't get me wrong. I want Hardened Ward to last for at least 10 seconds. At least 10 seconds. And the class definitely feels weaker now, which is why I've transitioned to making my Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight my main. But, to simply say that Sorcerers are dead and liabilities? I strongly disagree. As I sad, I had tremendous success with my pet build. And continued to into DB (granted it's only been a few days since its been out). And pet builds are even lower on the food chain than stamina sorcerers. 1 -
iam117✭✭✭
Yes, I do need you to keep going because Minor Vulnerability and Minor Prophecy do not compare to the sort of Utility other classes bring when you take into account Shell , Nova, Veil, etc.
Understand, I have nothing against your build, I am actually very interested on it, but it does not fix the serious issues with the sorcerer class. My objective with this threads is for Zenimax to realize the class is struggling because from his Q&A, @Wrobel seems to think we are doing just fine, which we are not.
the only people that slot utility are healers and tanks? everyone else drops meteor, except dk's who get standard. i cant remember the last time a dps was asked to run a utility ulti. tanks almost always are using agressive horn (skill available to everyone) and healers if they are not using horn either use nova or meteor.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
Nope. XD
But I'm willing to bet anything that you're not here to listen to viable alternatives to shield stacking Sorc. You just want to have your moan. So, do so. However, sorcerers aren't broken at all.
Like what shall we use? We got liquid lightning as a decent spell, possibly frags, the rest are quite mediocre or just plain useless. The sorc skills have been curbstomped over and over again and there's barely anything nice to use now.
Frags. Still good.
Liquid lightning. Still good.
Hurricane.
Surge.
Overload.
Mage's wrath/fury.
Mix and match with others. Learn to adapt.
Surge is useless now, tried it on the PTS, not worth the slot to use, fury is the worst execute in the game, Overload is the most boring ultimate in the game and you get better results by slotting meteor. Hurricane is stam so can't say anything about that, but the magicka version is useless if we got to stand and hug the enemies for it to work.
How do you gain your major buffs then if it isn't worth a slot? (What is he actual change to surge btw, I couldn't find it on the patch notes?)
But anyway, I think sorcs will be alright (in PvP terms) you cast your shields more often than 6 seconds anyway and with the annulment change you can now also take a lot of physical damage.
People saying sorcs will now be cannon fodder, I'm curious as to what change makes you think this, in PvP terms I mean.
I personally can't wait for the update, at first I was skeptical and don't like the fact all classes now basically have access to hardened ward through the new annulment. But I'm going to try a heavy armor sorc and see how that goes.
Although, I have levelled a StamBlade incase the changes are worse then I anticipated.
But yeah sorcs for PvE are garbage, low DPS and now it's going to be even lower since we have to cast shields a lot more often wasting time we could be DPS'ing
Surge no longer heals a portion of the damage done, instead it procs with every Crit (1 second cd) and heals a fixed amount. Essentially it was turned from a burst heal to a sustained heal that relies on Crits. It is a considerable nerf to sorcerer's survivability.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Check out builds by people like Nos (lol forgot his full name, been reading it as just "Nos" for so long). He's got some unconventional builds that may provide insight for interested players.
I actually checked Nos's DoT based build. It is pretty interesting specially as it uses a lightning staff which benefits from our passsives. Unfortunately that build only achieves high DPS against mobs, in a solo boss fight I believe it can only reach about 30K DPS and that is assuming the sorcerer manages to to maintain their ground targeted DoTs 100% of the time, which is not always possible.
Considering other classes can maintain sustained DPS over 40k reaching up to 50-55 k at times while bringing more group utility than sorcerers can provide with their current kit, you can't say sorcerers are competitive in PvE.
Based on what analysis are you basing your claim? 25k on bloodspawn on a 300 CP toon without any buffs except Puncture and in imperfect gear is OP. Full raid buffs single target will be around 35k at leaat. Also keep in mind that with the exception of Manti, all the endgame currently has adds in it. If you are doing 35k single target, you will be pulling 45+ with another add in the mix. Additionally you provide a 10 second vulnerability proc to all targets. If you look at poisons then you can seen the hat poison duration. Is a few seconds at most and only applies 20% of the time. This set provides vulnerability for 10 seconds on the first tick of the heavy. This build will pull some of the highest numbers in SO and vMoL. For the few AA bosses that die in seconds you can just go overload.
Again, I think that build is very interesting but even if you do manage to pull a 40 -45 k DPS with that build in a raid boss, it is still, at best, in par with other classes and other classes can pull that DPS while providing all the group utility sorcerers simply lack. What exactly is the incentive to bring more than once sorcerer to a raid if they bring little utility and dubiously comparable DPS? I had high hopes for the newly improved negate, but the heal is not strong enough to justify its use over Barrier, for example.
Utility:
1. Minor vulnerability in all adds and boss (no dps has to run a poison. Since no one wants to run these in PvE)
2. Swap out curse in my setup for mines and you buff the group with minor spell crit.
3. At least 2 sorcs in a group will be amazing, both bosses in vMoL and trash to all have minor vulnerability will skyrocket group DPS.
4. Ranging AoE allows less strain on the healer.
5. Need I go on? Plus thelse 40-45 k dps parses you are talking about, can you link them? I only know one person on NA server pulling these numbers and that's Slayer on his stam DK. Sorcs will bring huge dps and huge utility into the group.
Yes, I do need you to keep going because Minor Vulnerability and Minor Prophecy do not compare to the sort of Utility other classes bring when you take into account Shell , Nova, Veil, etc.
Understand, I have nothing against your build, I am actually very interested on it, but it does not fix the serious issues with the sorcerer class. My objective with this threads is for Zenimax to realize the class is struggling because from his Q&A, @Wrobel seems to think we are doing just fine, which we are not.
Ok, so nightblades in high end raid do not drop Veil...ever...mitigation is only dropped by healers, and only in a few instances. Most high end teams have tanks and healers all on warhorn. No dps is dropping mitigation ultimates, that is only a thing if group DPS is low. I agree that sorcs need a buff and shouldnt be forced into these "different" builds. But I also dont agree that they are not useful and weak. It just takes a special skill to play them well.2 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
When your all out, go setup your Sorc with a non shield dependent build. It's been a whole 2 days since the DLC came out. Every class pretty much has to reconsider one thing or another with this DLC. Get back up on your horse and get back in the battle. If not, good luck in your other game.
LOL, most sorcs have to completely rethink their builds just to survive while NB's and templars can just spam one spell over and over and stay alive forever. xD
You mean like Sorc's re-casting their shields now? And those WB spammers who now can't CC and stun....
Sorcs are at least using 2 shields in PvP, 3 if they want to. And that's chewed through by most players in a matter of seconds. One shield on it's own is like 1 attack with hardened ward sitting at 11-12k in PvP.
Time to stop depending on shields maybe. I ditched mine. Try stuff like crit surge and degeneration as a start. Strap a resto on that back bar and go to town if that's not enough.
If that still doesn't help, you're probably still trying face-first tactics you grew used to with shields. Hang back now, use range, use los, and find combos to land.
Btw proxy isn't the only det. I bet the near future will bring out the red headed step morph.
See and here is another problem... Sorcerers are already forced to slot a fire destruction staff as their main weapon because we are the only class that has no spammable ability. Now thanks to the heavy nerfs to the class's survivability that didn't come coupled with any buffs to the class's utility or damage, we are also forced into a restoration staff.
It is really lame and the more reliant we become on weapon skills the least damage we do as well as sorcerers gain extra damage for having sorcerer skill slotted in their bars.
Stam sorc has no spammable ability or functional damage abilties - unless you want to count hurricane as a damage ability.
Sorc has cursed and frag procs with an execute that can be preapplied. This has always been core to burst, and burst is core to kills.
If youre playing in your mines, you can tie in more preset *class based damage skills* in that window, and this is before an ult.
They actually have tools, they arent meant to have a spammable DPS ability. Weaving with a destro can fill that roll if needed, and it outperforms weaving bow. Sorcs can still play to their strengths. Shields have been broken for so long, people dont even know that the class exists without them. Shields are the reason I stopped playing magicka sorc, they are so brokenly simple.
Was this change the right fix to shields? I dont think it was, I think there are better solutions, and people have suggested them to no end. But ZOS solutions their way. Thats why my stam sorc has always been and still is weaker than the class people are complaining about in this thread that has been arguably the most well rounded build over the course of the last year straight.
Its fine to complain - welcome to the club. If you expect to gain support, youre unlikely to. This thread is more of less a place for magicka sorcs to gather and complain and earn themselves condescending replies from other players - rightfully so at times.
I dont blame magicka sorcs for playing how they have, they had to ever since ZOS changed armor mitigation way back.
But is your class dead? Nope. You can still perform quite fine. Your shield strength is still there, you just have to have increasing awareness in using it rather than blindly applying it and carrying on about your 100% offensive business until someone decides to turn your direction.
You are talking PvP, I am talking PvE. Burst is useless in PvE, you need sustained DPS and sorcerers don't have it.
Remember? PvE, the area of the game in which sorcerers are the worse class in every possible role?
Wait... what happened to your Overload Left click zomg dpsrawr?Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is pretty funny. A lot of the people complaining about Sorcerers I'm assuming were only using the class to stack shields and use Overload. But, Sorcerers are far more deeper than that. And any "true" Sorcerer will tell you this. Granted the class feels overall much weaker now, and I'll probably main my Magicka Dragonknight... I still crush with my Sorcerer. Even more ironic, a pet build Sorcerer. It's hilarious to see FOTM Stamina Dragonknights and Nightblades run for their lives from a familiar and twilight, while getting merked-on via Crushing Shocks, C-Frags, and Overload light attacks.
your assumption would be wrong. i used Hardened ward as my only shield on a destro/dual wield, high crit build relying on Surge for heals, Dawnbreaker was my ult. that build was crushed with DB.
it's destro/resto i wouldn't be able to get out of that.
I always used Destro/Resto for my magicka builds. I understand the premise behind dual-wielding for the Overload bar, and all that jazz for higher damage... But like... How you call yourself a mage without using staves? Not to mention Destro/Resto complementing themselves beautifully, with one assisting with damage and penetration; the other providing sustain and healing? FOTM Sorcerers with their destruction staves, dual-wielded swords, are feeling the heat now. And that says it a lot honestly. It really does...
And please don't get me wrong. I want Hardened Ward to last for at least 10 seconds. At least 10 seconds. And the class definitely feels weaker now, which is why I've transitioned to making my Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight my main. But, to simply say that Sorcerers are dead and liabilities? I strongly disagree. As I sad, I had tremendous success with my pet build. And continued to into DB (granted it's only been a few days since its been out). And pet builds are even lower on the food chain than stamina sorcerers.
You do realize Elder Scrolls sorcerers are mostly blade wielders, right? They still do most of their damage as magicka, but are blade wielders. ^^
The problem is not that we can use a staff, the problem is that we have no other choice while other classes have that flexibility. The lack of a spammable damage ability in the sorcerer's kit is a ridiculous restriction that makes no sense.Edited by Grao on June 2, 2016 6:46PM1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is pretty funny. A lot of the people complaining about Sorcerers I'm assuming were only using the class to stack shields and use Overload. But, Sorcerers are far more deeper than that. And any "true" Sorcerer will tell you this. Granted the class feels overall much weaker now, and I'll probably main my Magicka Dragonknight... I still crush with my Sorcerer. Even more ironic, a pet build Sorcerer. It's hilarious to see FOTM Stamina Dragonknights and Nightblades run for their lives from a familiar and twilight, while getting merked-on via Crushing Shocks, C-Frags, and Overload light attacks.
your assumption would be wrong. i used Hardened ward as my only shield on a destro/dual wield, high crit build relying on Surge for heals, Dawnbreaker was my ult. that build was crushed with DB.
it's destro/resto i wouldn't be able to get out of that.
I always used Destro/Resto for my magicka builds. I understand the premise behind dual-wielding for the Overload bar, and all that jazz for higher damage... But like... How you call yourself a mage without using staves? Not to mention Destro/Resto complementing themselves beautifully, with one assisting with damage and penetration; the other providing sustain and healing? FOTM Sorcerers with their destruction staves, dual-wielded swords, are feeling the heat now. And that says it a lot honestly. It really does...
And please don't get me wrong. I want Hardened Ward to last for at least 10 seconds. At least 10 seconds. And the class definitely feels weaker now, which is why I've transitioned to making my Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight my main. But, to simply say that Sorcerers are dead and liabilities? I strongly disagree. As I sad, I had tremendous success with my pet build. And continued to into DB (granted it's only been a few days since its been out). And pet builds are even lower on the food chain than stamina sorcerers.
I need to log in mine soon an test the new learning curve in PvE , an I do agree with the 10 seconds on shields . That's more reasonable to manage for "casual" sorcs as myself
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »
When your all out, go setup your Sorc with a non shield dependent build. It's been a whole 2 days since the DLC came out. Every class pretty much has to reconsider one thing or another with this DLC. Get back up on your horse and get back in the battle. If not, good luck in your other game.
LOL, most sorcs have to completely rethink their builds just to survive while NB's and templars can just spam one spell over and over and stay alive forever. xD
You mean like Sorc's re-casting their shields now? And those WB spammers who now can't CC and stun....
Sorcs are at least using 2 shields in PvP, 3 if they want to. And that's chewed through by most players in a matter of seconds. One shield on it's own is like 1 attack with hardened ward sitting at 11-12k in PvP.
Time to stop depending on shields maybe. I ditched mine. Try stuff like crit surge and degeneration as a start. Strap a resto on that back bar and go to town if that's not enough.
If that still doesn't help, you're probably still trying face-first tactics you grew used to with shields. Hang back now, use range, use los, and find combos to land.
Btw proxy isn't the only det. I bet the near future will bring out the red headed step morph.
See and here is another problem... Sorcerers are already forced to slot a fire destruction staff as their main weapon because we are the only class that has no spammable ability. Now thanks to the heavy nerfs to the class's survivability that didn't come coupled with any buffs to the class's utility or damage, we are also forced into a restoration staff.
It is really lame and the more reliant we become on weapon skills the least damage we do as well as sorcerers gain extra damage for having sorcerer skill slotted in their bars.
Stam sorc has no spammable ability or functional damage abilties - unless you want to count hurricane as a damage ability.
Sorc has cursed and frag procs with an execute that can be preapplied. This has always been core to burst, and burst is core to kills.
If youre playing in your mines, you can tie in more preset *class based damage skills* in that window, and this is before an ult.
They actually have tools, they arent meant to have a spammable DPS ability. Weaving with a destro can fill that roll if needed, and it outperforms weaving bow. Sorcs can still play to their strengths. Shields have been broken for so long, people dont even know that the class exists without them. Shields are the reason I stopped playing magicka sorc, they are so brokenly simple.
Was this change the right fix to shields? I dont think it was, I think there are better solutions, and people have suggested them to no end. But ZOS solutions their way. Thats why my stam sorc has always been and still is weaker than the class people are complaining about in this thread that has been arguably the most well rounded build over the course of the last year straight.
Its fine to complain - welcome to the club. If you expect to gain support, youre unlikely to. This thread is more of less a place for magicka sorcs to gather and complain and earn themselves condescending replies from other players - rightfully so at times.
I dont blame magicka sorcs for playing how they have, they had to ever since ZOS changed armor mitigation way back.
But is your class dead? Nope. You can still perform quite fine. Your shield strength is still there, you just have to have increasing awareness in using it rather than blindly applying it and carrying on about your 100% offensive business until someone decides to turn your direction.
You are talking PvP, I am talking PvE. Burst is useless in PvE, you need sustained DPS and sorcerers don't have it.
Remember? PvE, the area of the game in which sorcerers are the worse class in every possible role?
Wait... what happened to your Overload Left click zomg dpsrawr?
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Argruna✭✭✭I have nothing good to contribute other than this is all that goes through my head when such 'nerfings' occur and I assume this is how the other classes act.
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