Make Summerset Great Again [a thread NOT about the hacking problem]

SeptimusDova · May 2016

So you want the Isles to look great. Well For that to happen this one says you need..... YARN !!!!!

Moonscythe · May 2016

Yeah, Auridon is pretty like a nice cake. If I were to build a house based on one of the examples in ESO it would be Khajiti. I like their raised houses and exotic architecture. I also like Dunmer. It is exotic and vaguely Asian without being as obviously based on a particular style as the Redguard and Nord, etc. I'm not sure I would want to live in a mudball or a purpose grown tree though.

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

From an Altmer's POV, given Auridon's history of being constantly under attack by the Maomer and Sloads, I think it makes some level of sense NOT to invest highly in the design of the cities there as that just means more wasted effort if/when it gets destroyed by the aforementioned races. It might mean that they have to live with more basic designs to their homes as a result.

As for why there isn't more magical influences involved, that's probably as a result of the Planemeld causing a vast number of mages during the time of ESO to have gone insane. With that big a loss to the magical community, many magical technicals were probably lost to the times and those that still know how are probably much fewer as a result of this so it's more a matter of too much for too little.

Probably the most logical, albeit very lazy, excuse I can think of.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Probably the most logical, albeit very lazy, excuse I can think of.

Exactly, and this is sort of my point.

We can find ways to explain this, but the fact is that Zenimax chose to go this route, while allowing races to be fantastical and colorful.

It's just a wasted opportunity.

Ra'Shtar · May 2016

Moonscythe wrote: »

Yeah, Auridon is pretty like a nice cake. If I were to build a house based on one of the examples in ESO it would be Khajiti. I like their raised houses and exotic architecture. I also like Dunmer. It is exotic and vaguely Asian without being as obviously based on a particular style as the Redguard and Nord, etc. I'm not sure I would want to live in a mudball or a purpose grown tree though.

Oh but you have not seen everything regarding Argonian architecture!

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

Another thing that bothers me about Auridon:

Why are altmer ruins IDENTICAL to ayleid ruins? Like....completely?

I know the ayleids are high elves as well, but isn't a bit lazy to act like there's no difference at all? Especially when we can see the difference between Hammerfell Dwemer and Morrowind Dwemer. It's just more evidence that they completely half-assed the Altmer.

Oh I forgot, there is ONE difference...

...They made the ruins grey, instead of the white marble we saw in Oblivion.

Once again, ZOS seems DETERMINED to take the color and life out of the Altmer. The question is why?

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Another thing that bothers me about Auridon:

Why are altmer ruins IDENTICAL to ayleid ruins? Like....completely?

I know the ayleids are high elves as well, but isn't a bit lazy to act like there's no difference at all? Especially when we can see the difference between Hammerfell Dwemer and Morrowind Dwemer. It's just more evidence that they completely half-assed the Altmer.

Oh I forgot, there is ONE difference...

...They made the ruins grey, instead of the white marble we saw in Oblivion.

Once again, ZOS seems DETERMINED to take the color and life out of the Altmer. The question is why?

I think this is my biggest beef with it as well.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Moonscythe wrote: »

Yeah, Auridon is pretty like a nice cake. If I were to build a house based on one of the examples in ESO it would be Khajiti. I like their raised houses and exotic architecture. I also like Dunmer. It is exotic and vaguely Asian without being as obviously based on a particular style as the Redguard and Nord, etc. I'm not sure I would want to live in a mudball or a purpose grown tree though.

Oh but you have not seen everything regarding Argonian architecture!

I'm really hoping they do some unique things when we get to Black Marsh as well. Submerged cities that require us to use alchemy (if non argonian) or enchanting, would be awesome.

Mr.Hmm · May 2016

Wish we could go to the home of Altmer.

I need to learn more about them..

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Another thing that bothers me about Auridon:

Why are altmer ruins IDENTICAL to ayleid ruins? Like....completely?

That at least makes sense; remember the Altmer are PROUD of the fact that they're the purest strain of mer, and dislike change. Refinement, not innovation. So being wildly different from the Ayleids would actually be very odd.

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Another thing that bothers me about Auridon:

Why are altmer ruins IDENTICAL to ayleid ruins? Like....completely?

That at least makes sense; remember the Altmer are PROUD of the fact that they're the purest strain of mer, and dislike change. Refinement, not innovation. So being wildly different from the Ayleids would actually be very odd.

But completely and totally identical? Except...it's grey? It just seems like a slap in the face, especially since ayleids and altmer ARE different cultures despite their similarities. You'd expect ayleid architecture to differ at least slightly from their elder kin.

And if they hate change so much, then why is the modern Auridon architecture so different?

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Wish we could go to the home of Altmer.

I need to learn more about them..

Auridon is supposed to be part of their home, but Zenimax had to fudge that so they could explain why it looks so bland.

tplink3r1 · May 2016

We need cool buildings like the Falmer buildings of Skyrim.
latest?cb=20121127182912

Altmer architecture should not look identical do Ayleid architecture.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

tplink3r1 wrote: »

We need cool buildings like the Falmer buildings of Skyrim.

Altmer architecture should not look identical do Ayleid architecture.

Good point.

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

tplink3r1 wrote: »

We need cool buildings like the Falmer buildings of Skyrim.

Altmer architecture should not look identical do Ayleid architecture.

Exactly. This with a bit more island colors would be ideal. Anything is better than what we got.

Lenikus · May 2016

You know what would make this thread great?
People talking about hax.

# Topic.
Auridon is not so fancy because it's literally the rock between the capital of the summerset isles and the rest of tamriel, if anything, it's a border zone, with major concern being wars and stuff.

Farorin · May 2016

I totally agree, the same goes for Valenwood, for a huge overgrown forrest, there aren't really many trees.

For the capitol of the Dominion, Grahtwood doesn't have many houses or dwellings.

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

You know what would make this thread great?
People talking about hax.

# Topic.
Auridon is not so fancy because it's literally the rock between the capital of the summerset isles and the rest of tamriel, if anything, it's a border zone, with major concern being wars and stuff.

This wasn't the case until ZOS made it up to explain why auridon was so plain. Auridon was and is always part of Summerset.

Even so, it makes no sense for those on auridon to randomly decide not to use much magic and randomly decide to have plain grey Rivendell buildings compared to anywhere else.

ZOS intended ALL of Summerset to look like that, until we got angry. Then they shifted. Remember their statements on altmer architecture during the first AMA? Because I do.

Faulgor · May 2016

Heck, even the original concept arts looked more interesting than what we eventually ended up with.

At least the towers actually seemed ... towering. There's so much that could have been done with the insect wing theme, but all we got are grey blocks of stone ...

Can't wait for the Telvanni Isles.

Duiwel · May 2016

While Auridon might not be pretty I think elves show off their "fancy-ness" in other ways i.e. their clothing, their small details on furniture ect.

Why why do elves HAVE to have the nicest of everything?

They already have so much going for them I think the structures are fine, this isn't LotR and their depiction of the cities looks fine to me.

Just be grateful you are not Nords... I mean imagine the complaints then

"These milk drinking builders gave me a grass roof! Pah, I should kill them all"

Recremen · May 2016

Well, for one thing it's just Auridon, we don't see mainland Summerset, which is probably far more grand. Second, Altmer art and architecture probably has more mathematical perfection and precision, and is not strictly about opulence and grandeur. They'd probably criticize Khajiit artwork as being "gaudy". Third, and my favorite lense to view the world through, the Altmer probably had a team of crafters go over Auridon with a fine-toothed comb to tone it down a bit, and make a more welcome atmosphere for the riff-raff allies to visit. So long as they keep off of Sumerset proper. Forever. So, you know, it's still in keeping with Altmer tradition, but maybe something the mortal races and lesser elves could grasp more easily.

RealLifeRedguard · May 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

While Auridon might not be pretty I think elves show off their "fancy-ness" in other ways i.e. their clothing, their small details on furniture ect.

Why why do elves HAVE to have the nicest of everything?

They already have so much going for them I think the structures are fine, this isn't LotR and their depiction of the cities looks fine to me.

Just be grateful you are not Nords... I mean imagine the complaints then

"These milk drinking builders gave me a grass roof! Pah, I should kill them all"

Why does it have to be nice?

...because these are altmer. The supposed kings of fanciness.

Or if not "nice" then at least interesting in some way.

Summerset (and for the last time, Auridon is part of Summerset) was supposed to be bizarre, beautiful, strange and alien. It was an ancient land shrouded in mystery, the original homeland of elves before they went their separate ways.

The game's and the lore have been teasing us forever on what it will look like, and THIS is what we get?

Does ANYTHING about Auridon seem remarkable, strange or bizarre in any way when compared to anywhere else in Tamriel?

Whats worse is that according to zenimax, ALL of Summerset looks like this. Remember their AMA on the Aldmeri Dominion?

Come on guys, it's obvious altmer were an afterthought to ZOS. They gave us grey, washed out Rivendell buildings and called it a day.

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

I think it's time we really try to #MakeSummersetGreatAgain.

Regardless of whether or not you liked Auridon, I think we can all agree that the cities are bland, lifeless, and mundane compared to other cities in the game. This is a shame considering how beautiful, magical, and fanciful Summerset was supposed to be.

This is the most mysterious province in Tamriel, and it's a shame that Zenimax seemed to treat it as an afterthought.

We should see if we can get a response from ZOS and ask them to give Altmer some love when the time is right.

What we know

1. The Summerset we've seen so far is nothing like it was described in lore. Regardless of the source, ever since the lore was revamped in 1998, Summerset has always been portrayed as mysterious, strange, and bizarre. Nothing we've seen so far is in any way remarkable compared to any other race
2. Other races were portrayed far more consistently and were allowed to have more lavish, exotic and "weird" themes than the altmer
3. The "Auridon isn't the 'real' Summerset" argument is silly. The altmer have no reason to have a completely different, less decorative style on Auridon. The only reason this argument exists is to excuse ZOS's decisions. They CHOSE to portray Auridon this way.
4. In the original Aldmeri Dominion AMA, the loremaster clearly stated that Summerset buildings are not how they were described in lore and look like the grey, Rivendell buildings we see in Auridon

Solutions
1. As Zenimax cannot improve what they've already done, I think it would at least be nice to have an official statement ensuring us that when and if we see the rest of Summerset that it will look more visually interesting than what we got in Auridon.
2. If you agree that washed out, colorless, mundane hovels are beneath the altmer, especially when compared to how beautiful and decorative other races were allowed to be, tweet the appropriate people with the hashtag #MakeSummersetGreatAgain, and see if we can at the very least get a response on this.

Yes, I'm overreacting, but honestly I care about the Altmer the way a lot of care about the Nords or Dunmer. Imagine if Zenimax decided to take away netches or replace all the giant mushrooms with pine trees. That's how a lot of us feel about Auridon right now.

ArchMikem · June 2016

I don't consider Auridon as the center of Altmer culture. It's even stated to be Summerset's buffer between it and the rest of Tamriel, thus it's seen it's fair share of conflict and turmoil. Why would you want to spend the effort making a land extravagant when it'll just be burned to the ground within the next handful of decades?

Now Summerset itself? Where there's a lot more of the pointy eared fiends clustered together in a space of relative safety? Yes I'm sure it's quite pretty.

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

I don't consider Auridon as the center of Altmer culture. It's even stated to be Summerset's buffer between it and the rest of Tamriel, thus it's seen it's fair share of conflict and turmoil. Why would you want to spend the effort making a land extravagant when it'll just be burned to the ground within the next handful of decades?

Now Summerset itself? Where there's a lot more of the pointy eared fiends clustered together in a space of relative safety? Yes I'm sure it's quite pretty.

Again, this argument makes no sense for the following reasons:

1. ALL of Summerset, ESPECIALLY the coasts of the main island, is in constant war with both the Sload and the Maormer. The Altmer have been in constant, unending war with those two races for thousands of years. In the lore, this turmoil is described in detail, about how cities have been destroyed and rebuilt numerous times. The entire altmer people are hardened by war and strife in their otherwise ideal paradise. It's one of the reasons they're so xenophobic. Auridon being a "buffer zone" is just a convenient excuse for ZOS to be lazy.
2. The Altmer are the most magically advanced race in modern Tamriel, perhaps all of Nirn. They use magic for everything. None of this is expressed on Auridon. Of course not everyone is going to be a mage, but for the most magically advanced place in Tamriel, we see very little of how magic is incorporated into their daily chores and activities.
3. Why gray? Why is EVERYTHING they build colorless? This is completely incongruous with everything we know about their style from previous games. Have you seen their elven and glass armors? Zenimax even had the nerve to make their ruins, which are all just copy-pasted ayleid ruins, grey instead white marble as they were in Oblivion. Can you please tell me what reason there was to do this?

Faulgor · June 2016

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I think it's time we really try to #MakeSummersetGreatAgain.

Regardless of whether or not you liked Auridon, I think we can all agree that the cities are bland, lifeless, and mundane compared to other cities in the game. This is a shame considering how beautiful, magical, and fanciful Summerset was supposed to be.

Well, there are two source that show Altmer architecture that predate ESO.

1. The High Elf race picture from Battlespire

20141118104132!BS-race-High_Elf.jpg

2. The 3rd edition PGE

The first shows strange towers with almost antenna-like ornamental spikes on top (possibly to harness magicka?). What is especially noteworthy is that afaik, it is the only race picture from Battlespire that features any architecture at all. The others only show landscapes. This tells us that the Summerset Isles are supposed to be the birthplace of civilization. The look and atmosphere of the Isles is probably more defined by the buildings of the Altmer than any natural structure.

The second image, I have to confess, looks as boring as they come.

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Yes, I'm overreacting, but honestly I care about the Altmer the way a lot of care about the Nords or Dunmer. Imagine if Zenimax decided to take away netches or replace all the giant mushrooms with pine trees. That's how a lot of us feel about Auridon right now.

In some areas they did. All Dunmer buildings in ESO have the Indoril style, Redoran and Hlaalu are non-existent, even though the Great Houses do have appearances. House Dres doesn't get a unique style either. For the Nord, they dropped the ball in WIndhelm, which is the one place that should have been made of stone, yet isn't.
It's clear that there were limitations, that only allowed for one style per race. Apparently there weren't enough resources available to create more unique assets. This also shows in the fauna, as almost no province outside of Morrowind has unique animals (wth are Mammoths, Guar and Alit doing in south-west Tamriel?). Thankfully, they have managed to create new assets for each DLC (so happy we got Minotaurs in the Gold Coast), and the quality and variety has improved steadily.
So if they ever decide to return to the Summerset Isles, there's hope they will put more heart into it.

When I think of Altmer art and culture, I think of magic, mathematics, mirrors, logic, eagle and insect iconography. Their concepts of beauty and art have a deep logical and orderly component to them, which should be reflected in an affinity for crystalline structures (Crystal-Like-Law, anyone?) and possibly something like geodesic domes. Their style is not fanciful in the typical sense of elaborate ornamentation, but rather variation and manipulation of light (mirrors, transparency/opaqueness, spectral colours). Their interiors sometimes border on science-fiction and the alien, with a sleek and functional look and magnificient magical apparata in wealthier households.
That they see themselves as fundamentally different from the lesser races is also expressed in their clothing, where they enhance or add extremities through fabric and drapery, e.g. towering headdresses and elongated limbs.

But that's just my take on it. All I ask ZOS to do is to try.

NativeJoe · June 2016

This is what should happen to the island...

and something like this should replace it.

psychotrip · June 2016

Hey guys!

I'm an insane, obsessive, and possibly deranged Elder Scrolls fan who also runs a smallish Youtube channel.

I played ESO in the beta but mostly ignored it afterward. I still check out these forums now and again because...well...I'm insane and I'm addicted to The Elder Scrolls.

I LOVED this post and it's mirrored stuff I've been saying for years. I decided to make an entire episode of my show based on this thread in hopes of getting the news out about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGXlGLSv9M

I really want some sort of assurance from Zenimax that they're willing to embrace what makes the altmer so damn cool. So let's keep this thread going and #MakeSummersetGreatAgain!

RealLifeRedguard · June 2016

psychotrip wrote: »

Hey guys!

I'm an insane, obsessive, and possibly deranged Elder Scrolls fan who also runs a smallish Youtube channel.

I played ESO in the beta but mostly ignored it afterward. I still check out these forums now and again because...well...I'm insane and I'm addicted to The Elder Scrolls.

I LOVED this post and it's mirrored stuff I've been saying for years. I decided to make an entire episode of my show based on this thread in hopes of getting the news out about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGXlGLSv9M

I really want some sort of assurance from Zenimax that they're willing to embrace what makes the altmer so damn cool. So let's keep this thread going and #MakeSummersetGreatAgain!

Holy ***. Didn't expect anyone to pay that much attention to this thread. Cool video!

Faulgor wrote: »

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

I think it's time we really try to #MakeSummersetGreatAgain.

Regardless of whether or not you liked Auridon, I think we can all agree that the cities are bland, lifeless, and mundane compared to other cities in the game. This is a shame considering how beautiful, magical, and fanciful Summerset was supposed to be.

Well, there are two source that show Altmer architecture that predate ESO.

1. The High Elf race picture from Battlespire

2. The 3rd edition PGE

The first shows strange towers with almost antenna-like ornamental spikes on top (possibly to harness magicka?). What is especially noteworthy is that afaik, it is the only race picture from Battlespire that features any architecture at all. The others only show landscapes. This tells us that the Summerset Isles are supposed to be the birthplace of civilization. The look and atmosphere of the Isles is probably more defined by the buildings of the Altmer than any natural structure.

The second image, I have to confess, looks as boring as they come.

RealLifeRedguard wrote: »

Yes, I'm overreacting, but honestly I care about the Altmer the way a lot of care about the Nords or Dunmer. Imagine if Zenimax decided to take away netches or replace all the giant mushrooms with pine trees. That's how a lot of us feel about Auridon right now.

In some areas they did. All Dunmer buildings in ESO have the Indoril style, Redoran and Hlaalu are non-existent, even though the Great Houses do have appearances. House Dres doesn't get a unique style either. For the Nord, they dropped the ball in WIndhelm, which is the one place that should have been made of stone, yet isn't.
It's clear that there were limitations, that only allowed for one style per race. Apparently there weren't enough resources available to create more unique assets. This also shows in the fauna, as almost no province outside of Morrowind has unique animals (wth are Mammoths, Guar and Alit doing in south-west Tamriel?). Thankfully, they have managed to create new assets for each DLC (so happy we got Minotaurs in the Gold Coast), and the quality and variety has improved steadily.
So if they ever decide to return to the Summerset Isles, there's hope they will put more heart into it.

When I think of Altmer art and culture, I think of magic, mathematics, mirrors, logic, eagle and insect iconography. Their concepts of beauty and art have a deep logical and orderly component to them, which should be reflected in an affinity for crystalline structures (Crystal-Like-Law, anyone?) and possibly something like geodesic domes. Their style is not fanciful in the typical sense of elaborate ornamentation, but rather variation and manipulation of light (mirrors, transparency/opaqueness, spectral colours). Their interiors sometimes border on science-fiction and the alien, with a sleek and functional look and magnificient magical apparata in wealthier households.
That they see themselves as fundamentally different from the lesser races is also expressed in their clothing, where they enhance or add extremities through fabric and drapery, e.g. towering headdresses and elongated limbs.

But that's just my take on it. All I ask ZOS to do is to try.

You have no idea how much I wish you were the level designer for this game.

I know some of this may have been unfeasible, but surely there's a middle ground between your awesome ideas here and what we ended up with.