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Does anyone else notice that you're now being hit incredibly hard?
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yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Champion point rebalance in action here I think.
Don't forget you know have a physical resistance modifier within your champ points. You can make the choice to be lest burst and more sustain by dropping points from DD and putting them into mitigation.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Whatever it is that is happening feels better 1v1, and would probably be good on a mobile class that can better control the fights they engage in but on my mDK where I'm stuck with whatever situation I find myself in it's really punishing.Edited by Armitas on June 2, 2016 2:18PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
Psilent✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »As I mentioned in another thread armor and spell pen has been out of control for awhile, but now it's just dumb. Sharpened gives an insane amount now. Sharpened is giving more Spell Pen then Nirnhoned did last patch and now stamina builds have access to the same level of penetration and can stack weapon damage higher. Hence why your now getting wrecked like i noticed far easier then before.
Lets look at the Physical/Spell Resist Mitigation Formula's and how this works.
Physical/Spell mitigation*: (resistance-100)/(level*10)
So lets say you have 25,000 Spell Resist
Everyone has a base 100 Armor and Spell Pen before equipping any weapons with penetration traits, putting points in Spell Erosion/Piercing, or having 5 pieces of Light Armor with Concentration.
A Sharpened staff gives 5160 Spell Pen at gold(it may be slightly more or slightly less its early i need my coffee, if this value is wrong tell me so i can update the formula)
Light Armor gives 4884 Spell Penetration with the Concentration Passive from Light Armor.
We will assume 900 Spell Pen from Spell Erosion(im being conservative here)
We will also assume they inflict you with Major Breech which reduces your Spell Resist by 5281 points
So 25,000 SR is around 37% Mitigation
Now lets re-do that calculation with the above scenarios:
(25,000-16,325)/(66*10)
That 37% mitigation becomes 13% mitigation. This means they easily negated 67% of your defenses. This is broken no matter how you want to shake it. Stamina builds can get weapon damage higher then magic users can get spell damage making the difference in pen values a moot, but giving stamina builds more pen then nirnhoned gave magic users last patch is just overkill of the highest level
Using these calculations, The average Stamina Nightblade in this game will render roughly 17,000 of your Physical Armor moot.the average caster will render 18,000 or so of your Spell Resist useless
So if you have 25,000 Armor he will render 68% of your resistance useless which means heavy armor is useless. This is completely broken and unbalanced when Armor and Spell Resist have restrictive caps and sacrifices must be made to get them to reasonably high levels, you shouldn't be able to ignore so much of it without even really trying...they keep pushing the Spell and Weapon damage higher and higher every update, the last thing they needed was to make it even easier to ignore all of everyones defenses.
Simply put, You will need roughly 27,000 Armor just have a measly 10,000 Armor(15% mitigation) against a Stam Blade or a caster.
So unless your running 33k+ Armor or Spell Resist, your better off just stacking everything into Hardy, and Elemental Defender because everyone is running around Naked in Cyrodiil wearing clothes that give them stat bonuses but pretty much no damage mitigation at all.....FFS....This just makes the damage sheild meta, even at 6 seconds all the more appealing.
Something else to keep in mind as well is Poisons.
Last night I was using a Minor Fracture; Minor Defile poison on top of Noxious Breath's Major Fracture. I believe Minor Fracture is another 1320 armor penetration or around there.0 -
Bfish22090✭✭✭✭✭there is definitely something fishy going on with damage, animations and lag.
last night was ridiculous
break free is ALOT slower now and is making fighting zergs very annoying.
siege is either doing ALOT more damage, or not registering when you get hit by each different siege engine.
i will record some videos later and test this out3 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Champion point rebalance in action here I think.
Don't forget you know have a physical resistance modifier within your champ points. You can make the choice to be lest burst and more sustain by dropping points from DD and putting them into mitigation.
You don't have to compromise between damage and mitigation in the CP system... one is blue, the other one red.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.9 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »Champion point rebalance in action here I think.
Don't forget you know have a physical resistance modifier within your champ points. You can make the choice to be lest burst and more sustain by dropping points from DD and putting them into mitigation.
You don't have to compromise between damage and mitigation in the CP system... one is blue, the other one red.
You have to choose between resource management/cost reduction and things like block cost reduction, break free/roll reduction.
In the green tree you choose between dropping cost(burst)/regen(sustain)/block/tumble/breakfree(mitigation)
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Damage has been high for a loooong time, and I sound like a broken record. Even though sharpened is a bit overtuned at the moment, I haven't noticed significantly higher damage. Most of my deaths seem to come from bizarre episodes where it looks like I lagged but I didn't really and my opponent's attacks are going off just fine. At least a few skills seem to be broken, gap closers being the worst offenders. I was magnum shot off alessia bridge multiple times last night by a bowtard that either wouldn't animate, would go through block, would knock me off even though I was in the dead center and the range should have been too short ... so much bizarre crap happening in combat this patch.2 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The damage didn't really feel any different on Azura's in the last couple days. I did see a Templar fly 50 meters through the air to toppling charge someone sieging but I think that was an amusing animation delay and part of the new gap closer mechanics.
However I'm right there with y'all on the wonky animations. I've noticed that skills go off as normal but sometimes the animation is delayed. So I can already have delivered the execute with Killers Blade and move on to the next target while the first guy is just standing there waiting for the killing blow.
So we're giving and taking hits but we're just not seeing them immediately and our stats aren't being updated in a timely manner. This is way worse because we can't react to fast changes mid-combat. If you're getting focused by a group or burst down by a ganker, it'll take a few seconds before you realize you're dead, which is utter BS.-
Tri-faction tryhard but mainly EP in Gray Host lately (PC/NA)
- DISCARNATE - Tertiary Meat - @ Kartalin - Youtube
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Damage is definite a lot higher now. That being said, I think the biggest issue is the changes to combat animations. Gameplay is far more sluggish and unresponsive. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we PLEASE get a discussion going as to the possibility of reverting the combat changes? Combat has been one of the few bright spots among the many problems this game has had. I cannot understand why you guys are tinkering with a system that worked great in the first place.
Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was rolling around in a duo group last night, there were about a dozen AD around and we were wiping something like 20-30 DC pugs nobly trying to take Ash back from us. This goes on for a while when suddenly a whole bunch of them shoot off to go take the farm. I followed, of course, and suddenly found myself dead, from full health, instantly. At first I thought it was some new super high damage build, but actually it was hits by all different people and they were just really coordinated, because the group that went to the farm was NOT the pugs we were previously fighting, but a pro group coordinated through teamspeak. Lesson being: might not be that everything is doing more damage, your circumstances may have just changed suddenly.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thankfully, I did a few duels in PTS and found out my weaknesses very quickly, thanks @Jaybe_Mawfaka.
Now my Templar has 31K physical resist... In 5 light. Sacrifices were made but at least I can survive 1 incapacitating strike combo.
Sharpened is horrendous.PC EU1 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've noticed a bizarre amount of situations where I go from 3/4 to full health, to dead with a death recap that doesn't add up.. Vs as little as 2 enemiesRhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole1 -
PosternHouse✭✭✭✭If I had to make an intelligent guess I'd say it were something broken/stealth changed with Battle Spirit. Perhaps more avid PvErs can tell us if they are taking more damage outside of Cyrodiil.
As far as I know the dev team never fixed sharpened penetration issues, they just adjusted values. That might be another culprit. It's something that ought to be looked in to.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsomEdited by PosternHouse on June 2, 2016 4:07PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »As I mentioned in another thread armor and spell pen has been out of control for awhile, but now it's just dumb. Sharpened gives an insane amount now. Sharpened is giving more Spell Pen then Nirnhoned did last patch and now stamina builds have access to the same level of penetration and can stack weapon damage higher. Hence why your now getting wrecked like i noticed far easier then before.
Lets look at the Physical/Spell Resist Mitigation Formula's and how this works.
Physical/Spell mitigation*: (resistance-100)/(level*10)
So lets say you have 25,000 Spell Resist
Everyone has a base 100 Armor and Spell Pen before equipping any weapons with penetration traits, putting points in Spell Erosion/Piercing, or having 5 pieces of Light Armor with Concentration.
A Sharpened staff gives 5160 Spell Pen at gold(it may be slightly more or slightly less its early i need my coffee, if this value is wrong tell me so i can update the formula)
Light Armor gives 4884 Spell Penetration with the Concentration Passive from Light Armor.
We will assume 900 Spell Pen from Spell Erosion(im being conservative here)
We will also assume they inflict you with Major Breech which reduces your Spell Resist by 5281 points
So 25,000 SR is around 37% Mitigation
Now lets re-do that calculation with the above scenarios:
(25,000-16,325)/(66*10)
That 37% mitigation becomes 13% mitigation. This means they easily negated 67% of your defenses. This is broken no matter how you want to shake it. Stamina builds can get weapon damage higher then magic users can get spell damage making the difference in pen values a moot, but giving stamina builds more pen then nirnhoned gave magic users last patch is just overkill of the highest level
Using these calculations, The average Stamina Nightblade in this game will render roughly 17,000 of your Physical Armor moot.the average caster will render 18,000 or so of your Spell Resist useless
So if you have 25,000 Armor he will render 68% of your resistance useless which means heavy armor is useless. This is completely broken and unbalanced when Armor and Spell Resist have restrictive caps and sacrifices must be made to get them to reasonably high levels, you shouldn't be able to ignore so much of it without even really trying...they keep pushing the Spell and Weapon damage higher and higher every update, the last thing they needed was to make it even easier to ignore all of everyones defenses.
Simply put, You will need roughly 27,000 Armor just have a measly 10,000 Armor(15% mitigation) against a Stam Blade or a caster.
So unless your running 33k+ Armor or Spell Resist, your better off just stacking everything into Hardy, and Elemental Defender because everyone is running around Naked in Cyrodiil wearing clothes that give them stat bonuses but pretty much no damage mitigation at all.....FFS....This just makes the damage sheild meta, even at 6 seconds all the more appealing.
I don't think this explains what I am experiencing at all. The damage I deal and receive looks far higher on healthbars than in my combat log. And I've been using neither sharpened nor armor/spell resist debuffs yet.
That being said, once I realized the difference in damage compared to last patch, I adjusted very quickly, being able to estimate what kind of damage I can take and what is needed to kill enemies a lot better.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think what people are complaining about, which I agree with, is them pushing the new animations despite what the PVP player base feels or cares about.
Couple it with the fact that I literally did not have sound in PvP for about 80-90% of 4hours of PvPing (literally)... and you have animations you cant see, effects you cant hear, and death recaps that dont add up.
And ultimately, for me, I still like things more than previous patches... because I couldnt even touch idiots that didnt CC break while they were being healed for monsterous amounts laying on the ground. Its amazing what will make you happy given what youve lost in PvP. But pushing the new animation changes to make things "feel better" was an awful idea.
This was one of the 1 questions I asked devs about at PAX East. Would they force out animations or wait until they were ready? They werent ready. People are indeed dying to stuff that doesnt seem to add up or animations they just could not see. And despite animation canceling and weaving hiding animations, this feels much worse, because were not gaining the ability to see animations still. You can still weave, things are just clunky and ugly looking.
But at least I can kill magicka templars walking around flooding BOL with blinders on.5 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think what people are complaining about, which I agree with, is them pushing the new animations despite what the PVP player base feels or cares about.
Couple it with the fact that I literally did not have sound in PvP for about 80-90% of 4hours of PvPing (literally)... and you have animations you cant see, effects you cant hear, and death recaps that dont add up.
And ultimately, for me, I still like things more than previous patches... because I couldnt even touch idiots that didnt CC break while they were being healed for monsterous amounts laying on the ground. Its amazing what will make you happy given what youve lost in PvP. But pushing the new animation changes to make things "feel better" was an awful idea.
This was one of the 1 questions I asked devs about at PAX East. Would they force out animations or wait until they were ready? They werent ready. People are indeed dying to stuff that doesnt seem to add up or animations they just could not see. And despite animation canceling and weaving hiding animations, this feels much worse, because were not gaining the ability to see animations still. You can still weave, things are just clunky and ugly looking.
But at least I can kill magicka templars walking around flooding BOL with blinders on.
Pretty much this. Damage may have increased significantly, but what makes us really feel it is the decreased responsiveness with the new combat system. Actively mitigating damage is now far more difficult/frustrating.
It's ***. I cannot figure out why they're forcing this garbage change onto the game.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This makes me want to get back in the game right now and PVP. I haven't stepped foot in Cyrodiil since the patch; been doing other fun things. But pre-patch I was running a 2-hit burst build to farm AP, and maybe now it'll be a 1-hit build
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is one of those 'changes' that doesnt get reversed. Like new lighting. Its in now - it was held off due to huge complaints in Tguild patch, but there wasnt a lot of vocal resistance this time around.
Its here to stay, they dont care about how negatively it may impact PVP. This is a problem. As long as it doesnt break PVE, and mobs are not animation canceling and weaving... so its considered not a major concern the way I see it.
Its something to get used to, and I dont understand why resources were put into doing this.
What value did this add to the game? It looks better? (Lets consider it outside of PVP, which is clearly actually looks worse right now) Does PVE look or feel better? Not really, If i weave animations it looks worse. If i wasnt weaving animations, its no different than before for me. SO WHY? Why did you force things we didnt need and didnt drastically benefit us? There are other things you could have focused resources on that would have impacted us even more. Even fixing loot tables would have been a major victory.
Very disappoint.
13 -
Sythen88411✭✭✭✭✭I jumped into pvp for the first time after DB patch with a buddy to do some 2vX and i notice I was taking an extremely amount of damage then I usually do.0
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is one of those 'changes' that doesnt get reversed. Like new lighting. Its in now - it was held off due to huge complaints in Tguild patch, but there wasnt a lot of vocal resistance this time around.
Its here to stay, they dont care about how negatively it may impact PVP. This is a problem. As long as it doesnt break PVE, and mobs are not animation canceling and weaving... so its considered not a major concern the way I see it.
Its something to get used to, and I dont understand why resources were put into doing this.
What value did this add to the game? It looks better? (Lets consider it outside of PVP, which is clearly actually looks worse right now) Does PVE look or feel better? Not really, If i weave animations it looks worse. If i wasnt weaving animations, its no different than before for me. SO WHY? Why did you force things we didnt need and didnt drastically benefit us? There are other things you could have focused resources on that would have impacted us even more. Even fixing loot tables would have been a major victory.
Very disappoint.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we PLEASE get some dialogue going with you guys? These combat changes are, IMO, the worst change ever made to this game--and that's saying something. Despite all of ESO's problems, the combat system is one of the things that keeps me playing.
Can one of the developers--any developer--start a thread and at least talk to us about why this was done? As Fengrush asks, what benefit does this change confer upon the game? I don't see it.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT6 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is one of those 'changes' that doesnt get reversed. Like new lighting. Its in now - it was held off due to huge complaints in Tguild patch, but there wasnt a lot of vocal resistance this time around.
Its here to stay, they dont care about how negatively it may impact PVP. This is a problem. As long as it doesnt break PVE, and mobs are not animation canceling and weaving... so its considered not a major concern the way I see it.
Its something to get used to, and I dont understand why resources were put into doing this.
What value did this add to the game? It looks better? (Lets consider it outside of PVP, which is clearly actually looks worse right now) Does PVE look or feel better? Not really, If i weave animations it looks worse. If i wasnt weaving animations, its no different than before for me. SO WHY? Why did you force things we didnt need and didnt drastically benefit us? There are other things you could have focused resources on that would have impacted us even more. Even fixing loot tables would have been a major victory.
Very disappoint.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we PLEASE get some dialogue going with you guys? These combat changes are, IMO, the worst change ever made to this game--and that's saying something. Despite all of ESO's problems, the combat system is one of the things that keeps me playing.
Can one of the developers--any developer--start a thread and at least talk to us about why this was done? As Fengrush asks, what benefit does this change confer upon the game? I don't see it.
I promise you 100% they won't come talk to us. They confer with their silence, their deep resentment of us as a community and their obligation to even deal with pvp. I'm totally convinced they do not care about pvp and are making it deliberately unenjoyable.11 -
Mako1132✭✭✭✭✭This is one of those 'changes' that doesnt get reversed. Like new lighting. Its in now - it was held off due to huge complaints in Tguild patch, but there wasnt a lot of vocal resistance this time around.
Its here to stay, they dont care about how negatively it may impact PVP. This is a problem. As long as it doesnt break PVE, and mobs are not animation canceling and weaving... so its considered not a major concern the way I see it.
Its something to get used to, and I dont understand why resources were put into doing this.
What value did this add to the game? It looks better? (Lets consider it outside of PVP, which is clearly actually looks worse right now) Does PVE look or feel better? Not really, If i weave animations it looks worse. If i wasnt weaving animations, its no different than before for me. SO WHY? Why did you force things we didnt need and didnt drastically benefit us? There are other things you could have focused resources on that would have impacted us even more. Even fixing loot tables would have been a major victory.
Very disappoint.
Pretty much this.2 -
forzajuve212✭✭✭✭✭This is one of those 'changes' that doesnt get reversed. Like new lighting. Its in now - it was held off due to huge complaints in Tguild patch, but there wasnt a lot of vocal resistance this time around.
Its here to stay, they dont care about how negatively it may impact PVP. This is a problem. As long as it doesnt break PVE, and mobs are not animation canceling and weaving... so its considered not a major concern the way I see it.
Its something to get used to, and I dont understand why resources were put into doing this.
What value did this add to the game? It looks better? (Lets consider it outside of PVP, which is clearly actually looks worse right now) Does PVE look or feel better? Not really, If i weave animations it looks worse. If i wasnt weaving animations, its no different than before for me. SO WHY? Why did you force things we didnt need and didnt drastically benefit us? There are other things you could have focused resources on that would have impacted us even more. Even fixing loot tables would have been a major victory.
Very disappoint.
This. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Please talk to the PVP community and discuss changes like these with us. Currently PVP feels horrible with wack animations, ultimates not working at all, and lag. PVP is a real mess right now.Edited by forzajuve212 on June 2, 2016 5:52PM3 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Besides weaving and gap closers, are other animations causing issues for people? In the sea of terrible things in this patch, one shining star for me has been the fact that I can actually cast blazing spears and have them land.0 -
VagabondAngel✭✭✭✭FFS stop changing things that don't need it. Particularly, as if in some complacent fantasy, you are still refusing to acknowledge, nor enter into dialogue about, the many, many things that do need fixing.
Massive health bars and alliance icons anyone?
PvP combat now looks like a cheap Manga imitation and my 35k spell resist, 28k armour, 44k health, full Impen, Blazing Shield Templar now feels squishy.
Out-standing!
~ Níamh ~
~ Ebonheart Pact ~
~ SatGNU - PC - EU ~8 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1
