Itemization after Vet Rank Removal

LegendaryNinja · May 2016

Hi everyone. I wanted to write some of my thoughts in making best in slot gear after the vet rank removal, and some other concerns.

Concern1: It would be appropriate to assume that with each DLC Update after Dark Brotherhood there will be higher CP gear available as drops and to craft. Example CP170-200 gear.
Is it viable to craft and/or upgrade our gear to Gold every 3 months?

Concern2: I'm also concerned that with an open ended progression system like the CP system, items like Monster Helmets might have a hard cap of CP160 because I don't think that they will update the Vet Dungeons with every update; kind of the same treatment Dragonstar Arena has.

Solution:
A lot of MMOS allow players to craft and equip up-gradable gear with materials and/or special items that lessen the burden of itemization in having an open ended progression system.
This should only work on crafted and some dropped gear. Current modern MMOS have caps on gear only if they have a level cap; games that have an always expanding progression system
cap their gear until the next cap, which they then release the level cap and allow players to upgrade their gear without having to craft another set and upgrade it again.

These are my thoughts, let me know below if there might be a better solution and or constructive opinions below.

ItsGlaive · May 2016

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Hi everyone. I wanted to write some of my thoughts in making best in slot gear after the vet rank removal, and some other concerns.

Concern1: It would be appropriate to assume that with each DLC Update after Dark Brotherhood there will be higher CP gear available as drops and to craft. Example CP170-200 gear.
Is it viable to craft and/or upgrade our gear to Gold every 3 months?

Concern2: I'm also concerned that with an open ended progression system like the CP system, items like Monster Helmets might have a hard cap of CP160 because I don't think that they will update the Vet Dungeons with every update; kind of the same treatment Dragonstar Arena has.

Solution:
A lot of MMOS allow players to craft and equip up-gradable gear with materials and/or special items that lessen the burden of itemization in having an open ended progression system.
This should only work on crafted and some dropped gear. Current modern MMOS have caps on gear only if they have a level cap; games that have an always expanding progression system
cap their gear until the next cap, which they then release the level cap and allow players to upgrade their gear without having to craft another set and upgrade it again.

These are my thoughts, let me know below if there might be a better solution and or constructive opinions below.

I'd second this idea. It's been suggested quite a few times, now we're facing inevitable cap rises some time after DB, it would be great to get ZOS' feedback on this.

Yinmaigao · May 2016

What I am afraid of is when they increase the CP cap/champ rank cap in the future.

Anything less than a 50 point jump would be moot, as they are trivial to attain anymore. However, this opens up a myriad of concerns for gearing.

Is a 50 point (arbitrary number) jump healthy for the system? What will this do for crafting? This large of a jump is effectively a "reset"on player gearing. What about power creep?

Way more questions than answers at this point I'm afraid.

LegendaryNinja · May 2016

Yinmaigao wrote: »

What I am afraid of is when they increase the CP cap/champ rank cap in the future.

Anything less than a 50 point jump would be moot, as they are trivial to attain anymore. However, this opens up a myriad of concerns for gearing.

Is a 50 point (arbitrary number) jump healthy for the system? What will this do for crafting? This large of a jump is effectively a "reset"on player gearing. What about power creep?

Way more questions than answers at this point I'm afraid.

Thanks for the great reply @Yinmaigao
The thing is that the current gearing system design wasn't meant for when the CP system was implemented. It's simply not compatible with the CP system. A great game that does this well is Skyforge and Guild Wars2.

leandro.800ub17_ESO · May 2016

Each DLC would come with an item to upgrade the previouse DLC drops to current
lets say from 160 to 180 and so on
Special item may drop in that DLC end content or weekly rewards

phaneub17_ESO · May 2016

With the CP system I could very well see the next crafting range to be 170 and 180; while new group content awarding up to 190 and 200. The old VR system wouldn't allow that to happen, but with CP you can have crafted ranges be one set and the hardest content drop higher ranges much like item level systems from other MMOs.

STEVIL · May 2016

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Hi everyone. I wanted to write some of my thoughts in making best in slot gear after the vet rank removal, and some other concerns.

Concern1: It would be appropriate to assume that with each DLC Update after Dark Brotherhood there will be higher CP gear available as drops and to craft. Example CP170-200 gear.
Is it viable to craft and/or upgrade our gear to Gold every 3 months?

Facts matter.

We got vet16 with IC iirc.
Orsinium Wrothgar dil did not raise gear level/max rank.
TG Hews Bane dlc did not raise gear max level cap
DB Gold Coast will not raise gear max level cap.

So, based on actual fact, it is **inappropriate** to assume each dlc will include an increase in gear level max.

Also, it was stated in the first db eso live iirc by developers that it was not intended, specifically they now saw cp csp and gear cap as separate things unlike it was in level applies everything days. They were happy to be able to divorce those two.

So, might as well be planing solutions and news rules for when power puff girls take over Auridon than an imaginary quarterly regear for level change. The latter has bern pretty much disproven historically and denied. The former, who can say.

Also they have shown a path of updating sets as they go along but a few at a time. Sp assuming certain types will be abandoned permanently as a ehole group is also unfounded.

Your entire basis is counter-factual quicksand

phaneub17_ESO · May 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Hi everyone. I wanted to write some of my thoughts in making best in slot gear after the vet rank removal, and some other concerns.

Concern1: It would be appropriate to assume that with each DLC Update after Dark Brotherhood there will be higher CP gear available as drops and to craft. Example CP170-200 gear.
Is it viable to craft and/or upgrade our gear to Gold every 3 months?

Facts matter.

We got vet16 with IC iirc.
Orsinium Wrothgar dil did not raise gear level/max rank.
TG Hews Bane dlc did not raise gear max level cap
DB Gold Coast will not raise gear max level cap.

So, based on actual fact, it is **inappropriate** to assume each dlc will include an increase in gear level max.

Also, it was stated in the first db eso live iirc by developers that it was not intended, specifically they now saw cp csp and gear cap as separate things unlike it was in level applies everything days. They were happy to be able to divorce those two.

So, might as well be planing solutions and news rules for when power puff girls take over Auridon than an imaginary quarterly regear for level change. The latter has bern pretty much disproven historically and denied. The former, who can say.

Also they have shown a path of updating sets as they go along but a few at a time. Sp assuming certain types will be abandoned permanently as a ehole group is also unfounded.

Your entire basis is counter-factual quicksand

There's a difference when they are trying to move away from Veteran Ranks that the player base is fed up with continuing to level more ranks for each individual character. Now that we move into a system that has been in place for a year that grows more independently and is account wide, they can bring up the item level in small increments with each new update. They don't even have to update the final count for at least two years.

STEVIL · May 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Hi everyone. I wanted to write some of my thoughts in making best in slot gear after the vet rank removal, and some other concerns.

Concern1: It would be appropriate to assume that with each DLC Update after Dark Brotherhood there will be higher CP gear available as drops and to craft. Example CP170-200 gear.
Is it viable to craft and/or upgrade our gear to Gold every 3 months?

Facts matter.

We got vet16 with IC iirc.
Orsinium Wrothgar dil did not raise gear level/max rank.
TG Hews Bane dlc did not raise gear max level cap
DB Gold Coast will not raise gear max level cap.

So, based on actual fact, it is **inappropriate** to assume each dlc will include an increase in gear level max.

Also, it was stated in the first db eso live iirc by developers that it was not intended, specifically they now saw cp csp and gear cap as separate things unlike it was in level applies everything days. They were happy to be able to divorce those two.

So, might as well be planing solutions and news rules for when power puff girls take over Auridon than an imaginary quarterly regear for level change. The latter has bern pretty much disproven historically and denied. The former, who can say.

Also they have shown a path of updating sets as they go along but a few at a time. Sp assuming certain types will be abandoned permanently as a ehole group is also unfounded.

Your entire basis is counter-factual quicksand

There's a difference when they are trying to move away from Veteran Ranks that the player base is fed up with continuing to level more ranks for each individual character. Now that we move into a system that has been in place for a year that grows more independently and is account wide, they can bring up the item level in small increments with each new update. They don't even have to update the final count for at least two years.

They certainly can. But there is no indication they will, statements directly pushing the reverse and no sensible business gain for doing so.

Right now they spark interest each dlc by revamping older sets a few at the time to the new cap and putting them out into repeatable content or spawning them in troves etc. That promotes repeat play with just a little tweaking of existing content. That adds options without putting the mass behind the gear count forcing regrind.

They can keep that model going for years before running out of interesring sets.

There are a lot of things they CAN do bot only a few of them make sense, match existing behavior and have supporting statements to support them.

EDIT To ADD

Also, its worth mentioning... under vet levels, gear and character level were directly linked.

When they moved to The CP World Order, they could have kept that and so had every increase in CP cap equal a new gear max.

They specifically did the opposite.

They severed them setting CP for gear at 160, not 501.

That doesn't imply a plan to scale up gear with every cp cap raise.

There is nothing inherent in the new system that says we will suddenly see a dramatic increase in the rate of max-gear-cap escalation.