PvE Archer: NB or Sorc or DK?

Hauztein · May 2016

For solo play, and group dungeon, what will be best after dark brotherhood changes to skills?

I am afraid that NB stamina are too squishy. I tried a nb archer once and survival solo was nothing compared to magblade.

I am afraid that sorc stamina has too few support to bows. Altough theres a passive to weapon dmg, buffs and shield. Also a snare.

I am also afraid that DK has too few support to bows.

Panth141 · May 2016

The unfortunate and somewhat blunt answer is that bow does not offer DPS comparable to that achieved with the other weapon lines.

You will find that most people who make use of bow effectively do so using it as a buff weapon for DoTs and self-buffs.

As such, there is not really a big choice to be made in terms of class, as no matter the class a bow build will be underpowered at endgame versus classes build around DW/2H as their main weapon.

Saying that - NB does have the best synergies with bow if you consider engaging from stealth; in addition to the fact that Siphoning Attacks and Relentless Focus synergise well with bow.

For a pure bow build, I would place DK at the opposite end of the spectrum: they currently offer the highest DPS achievable, but the requisite DoT stacking to achieve such high DPS requires you to be in close range - counter intuitive for a bow build.

Unfortunately, as many people will tell you, a stamina sorcerer is underpowered regardless of weapon choice.

NBs can have fantastic survivability - you just have to build for it, ensuring constant up-time of defensive buffs along with appropriate use of heals - Vigor & Rally - which is tied to the two-hand line, further hindering the pure bow build.

DocFrost72 · May 2016

I've had my little bosmer nightblade archer for a while and I can tell you they hit hard, survive well, and have plenty of in-class support for archer builds.

Firstly, reaper's mark. It will not only wreak havoc on an enemy's armor and spell resist, but doesn't pull aggro and also heald you when the target dies. As a massive bonus, if you kill an enemy that is marked you get bonus damage (25% that stacks with major brutality) in addition to that large self heal.

Grim focus morphed to relentless focus not only gives you another 8% damage on top of everything else, but it also adds another 10% stamina regen and has a proc after 4 light or heavy attacks. After Dark Brotherhood releases, this proc will deal poison damage, making it very useful for stam builds.

Aspect of terror is perfect when morphed to mass hysteria. Three enemies will immediately retreat screaming in fear of your inner darkness (*Beats away emos with a stick*), setting you up with more space. As an archer, not only is that badass but on top of that enemies that recover still do 15% less damage for a time.

Summon shade morphed to the ranged form allows you to teleport while the shade is active, switching places with your little helper. This can create TONS of space and give you the breathing room to line up a shot, heal, or bug out.

Agony is great when outnumbered and worried about dangerous foes. Archer and a melee coming for you? Stun the melee for thirty seconds to deal with the archer, evening the odds.

Cripple and its morphs are much the same as agony, but the enemy loses a lot of speed and you get major expedition, increasing all movement speed by 30% for 8 seconds. Perfect for kiting enemies you'd really rather not close on.

Siphoning strikes helps a TON when morphed to siphoning attacks, letting you regen resources in the debatable best resource management system in the game.

This is not even discussing the passives for Nightblades, but I think you get the idea. Whether you're exploring alone, or delving, a bow build on a nightblade (with backup 2h) can be very effective. For a bonus, if you are struggling with survivability slot 2h and run rally and brawler. In trash pulls, you're nigh invincible.

Anti_Virus · May 2016

Don't use a bow it sucks in this game and beleive me I've tried so many options.

Right now the devs just want archers to not exist.

Lynx7386 · May 2016

i've been having a lot of fun with bow on my stamina dragonknight lately. I use it as a backup weapon with dual wield on the other bar thought.

It's a bit of a different playstyle than you usually attribute to a bow build however, very close range skirmisher like. I run bombardment, scorched earth, and fiery breath (stamina morph, forget the name) on the bow bar all as an AoE setup: Drop scorched earth (will be endless hail in DB) as i'm running in, use fiery breath when close enough (about the same time the arrows from volley start falling), and then keep the enemies permarooted with bombardment. I also run igneous weapons for major brutality and dragon fire scale on the same bar - the dragon fire scale helps deal with any ranged enemies that are in the pack while the melee all gets rooted. You can put out a lot of aoe damage without taking hardly any damage this way.

In a similar manner, I run blood craze, rapid strikes (bloodthirst in DB), and searing strike (venemous claw in DB) on my dual wield bar, stacking the damage over time from craze/searing and then using flurry for more burst. In DB, both flurry (bloodthirst) and blood craze will bring in healing, and I have igneous shield on this bar to get the major mending buff. Currently using dragonblood on my other ability slot, but will swap it for vigor eventually.

Nice thing about this build is that every damage ability you have (other than bombardment) gets boosted by both thaumaturge and mighty. May not be the best build for pvp, but in pve it puts out some serious sustain.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2016

Sorc is getting big buffs with 5% more physical damage dealt, and disintegrate now procc'ing on physical and doing physical as well. Also hurricane gives major expedition for whole duration instead of just 3s. Sorc's already have access to 8% stam increase and 2% weapon dmg per sorc ability slotted. Crit surge is excellent heal despite change. I would put Sorc bow builds at #2 over DK and Templar. Also the only build that can give you Major Brut self buff at range without having to use 2h.

#1 though is definitely stamina NB and you can do very competitive dps with the right setup, NB's access to 20s of minor berserk(8% more damage from all sources) as well as 10% more crit damage, as well as granting minor savagery whenever you crit. As well as gaining crit for each assassination ability slotted, makes them the top PVE bow dps setup. They however are probably the most fragile but given vigor+rally and you can survive just fine.

Templars are probably #3 but it's debatable, 6% more weapon damage and a stamina ranged knockdown are very nice, plus being able to pull stamina and health from dead bodies is awesome for pve. However that pretty much maxes out their utility for Bow builds.

DK's tied for 3rd...maybe? DK's offer 40% more to fully charged heavy attacks, and 5% more weapon dmg for 20s with 5% stamina return for using an earthen heart ability. Plus stamina return on ultimate use, DK stamina return options allow you to push more power and less regen but not enough to make up for the lack of dps utility for bow builds. Survivability is excellent on DK's provided you practice timely ultimate usage and know your buffs. The buff to heavy attacks does little outside of offer ganking options, in a dps rotation it is virtually always a loss to wait on fully charged heavies.

Bromburak · May 2016

Hauztein wrote: »

For solo play, and group dungeon, what will be best after dark brotherhood changes to skills?

I am afraid that NB stamina are too squishy. I tried a nb archer once and survival solo was nothing compared to magblade.

Correct, Bow it self is great but most Stam builds kinda rely on 2H skills for better performance and self buffs/heals.
The problem with that is , you barely use NB class skills and it could be boring as hell since many other class builds are played with 2H for a long time now. Else DK would be the better choice because you have more room for using class skills.

It's up to you if you still have fun playing 2H on the second bar or not.

Strider_Roshin · May 2016

Stam DK would be best since they will have a passive that increases the strength of poison damage next update.

OrphanHelgen · May 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stam DK would be best since they will have a passive that increases the strength of poison damage next update.

Only dmg over time effects, not the main dmg from snipe.

Strider_Roshin · May 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stam DK would be best since they will have a passive that increases the strength of poison damage next update.

Only dmg over time effects, not the main dmg from snipe.

Lethal arrow causes poison damage.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stam DK would be best since they will have a passive that increases the strength of poison damage next update.

No. Here are the changes to DK's based on the PTS notes released so far:

Dragonknight
Ardent Flame
Burning Breath (Fiery Breath morph): Renamed this morph to Noxious Breath. In addition, this morph now deals Poison Damage instead of Flame Damage.
Kinding: Renamed this passive ability to Combustion. In addition, this passive ability now also increases the damage of the Poisoned status effect, in addition to the Burning status effect.
Unstable Flame (Searing Strike morph): Renamed this morph to Venomous Claw. In addition, this morph now deals Poison Damage instead of Flame Damage.
World in Flame: Renamed this passive ability to World in Ruin. In addition, this passive ability now also increases the damage of Poison area of effect abilities, in addition to Flame area of effect abilities.
Earthen Heart
Corrosive Armor (Magma Armor morph): This morph now deals Poison Damage instead of Flame Damage.
Fossilize (Petrify morph):
Reduced the duration of the root applied from this morph after the disorient ends to 3 seconds at all ranks from 2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds at ranks I/II/III/IV respectively.
Fossilize now deals slightly more damage as it ranks up.
Updated the visual effects for the root from this morph to be more visually obvious.
Fragmented Shield (Obsidian Shield morph): In addition to the changes made to the base ability, we also increased the damage this morph deals when the shield expires or is removed by 30%.
Obsidian Shield: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.

The passive only benefits the poison status effect which is a chance based effect from poison based damage and not a major portion of damage output, currently on my v16 DK with 3900 weapon damage and 100 points into mighty and 60 into thaermaturge the poison status effect does 500 dot ticks every 2 seconds critting for 800 or so.

This status effect would be increased by 66% for DK's, putting it at closer to 800 for normal ticks and 1200 for crit's. However the only sure way of proccing this effect is to use lethal arrow and even then the extra damage is not significant enough to make up for the lack of minor berserk + crit damage. Assuming you could keep 100% uptime and you get 100% crits you are still only talking an additional 600 dps, which is nice but not significant enough.

Assuming you do 15k dps sustained then another 600 would be a 4% increase, however the higher you push your dps the more insignificant that 600 dps becomes. It would be reasonable to say though that this change puts DK archers ahead of Templar archers.

DarkDeller · May 2016

I am currently grinding up my woodelf nightblade. I pretty much only use arrow barrage and acid spray, seems to melt mobs quick. Real quick

Lynx7386 · May 2016

DarkDeller wrote: »

I am currently grinding up my woodelf nightblade. I pretty much only use arrow barrage and acid spray, seems to melt mobs quick. Real quick

You should try swapping acid spray for bombardment. Being able to permanently root enemies in pve is incredibly useful.

DarkDeller · May 2016

Ill have a look at it