New to ESO. Random Dungeon Group was very stressful

SlayerTheDragon · May 2016

James-Wayne wrote: »

Sounds like you had a team with no team work, they're are good players out there who will help.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Please get the group finder team to look at the soul gem issue for non vet but scaling to vet.

Personally I think you shouldnt be able to do vet content till 50 as skill unlocks are needed for most of the content scaling items (lack of) and level sometimes is not enough to handle the dungeon which is not the players fault.

OP was in a normal dungeon.

SlayerTheDragon · May 2016

Sorry to hear about your terrible first time OP. Trust me it gets easier the more you do them.
I would also not recommend healing at first - especially not a low level group raised to v16 - it is difficult.

Also, dying happens (a lot) in ESO dungeons - no need to feel bad. But if you res at a wayshrine, open your Party tab "P", then right click on anyone in your group and select "Travel to player".

Aisle9 · May 2016

Aww man...

PUGs need love too, but they won't help a single bit.

On the bright side, you might get lucky and find that mythical PUG with full coordination, communication and skills. They're out there, hiding somewhere in the night.

Don't stop
Believing

EllieBlue · May 2016

Find a decent guild. Run with guildies until you know all the dungeons inside out. Finding the right guild can be something of a hit and miss for some. Don't be afraid to leave and find another and another and another until you find the right community that suits your style and personality. And when you do, the quality of your eso-life will change tremendously for the better. Its a fun game and even better when played with a bunch of like minded players. All the best.

ContraTempo · May 2016

As you may notice from the advice given, ESO is not built like most other MMOs so while some concepts will apply, you will have to learn the ESO ways of doing things. LOTS of info in the forums and various places online.

You should make an optimized build, including attributes, skills, and gear. Be sure to have good consumables (gems, potions, food/drink). Be aware of how long your buffs last and be sure to keep them up. If you are on PC there are some great addons to help you track your buffs and others that help you analyze combat later so you can see what is most effective.

There are also lots of videos on YouTube of groups fighting every boss so you can go there and see what techniques they are using. There are also vids of various builds that first review the stats and gear and then show that build in action.

A huge amount depends on timing in ESO. Your buffs/debuffs, snares (incoming & outgoing) resource regen rates, cooldown times, casting times, DOT and HOT duration AND how frequently they tick, getting in extra blows with animation canceling, attack damage vs how long the attack takes, etc. Finding the optimum combo of those can transform your toon into a real badass.

One hint I can give you is to consider wearing a 5 piece Death's Wind set. You won't need it after you get the hang of ESO and there are better sets for adding resources but as a new player Death's Wind can save your butt. Whenever you get below 35% health, the next time you are hit your armor sends out a blast wave that knocks back and stuns all the bad guys around you. At that point you can wipe them out, heal yourself, or run away. This can repeat every 30 seconds.

ContraTempo · May 2016

Also, for healing you might look at Templar. While other classes can do it, Templars have some great healing and cleansing options that are unique to their class.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Yes, healing draws a lot of aggro if tank is not taunting... Probably instead of tank you got another special snowflake dd who thinks that "tanks are not needed" and queues as a tank, but doesnt have enough dps to kill the mobs fast enough (which is kinda required for tankless runs).
And yes, finding a guild will make things much easier. Check Reddit or Guild Recruitment subforum.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · May 2016

random groups are a crapshoot, lately i have had better luck with them, but every now and again i get once such group as you described.

i know with DB launching you get penalized for leaving a random group, but i still advise leaving, people like that do not deserve a player such as yourself, you dont need their negativity.

just leave, que again, and wait for a better group.

or join a guild

or hell, just find a few friends

random group finder is, unfortunatly, still riddled with problems anyway. By all means que, but go in expecting to paired with the worst that humanity has to offer, and you will be geniunly suprised when you are actually paired with good people.

Loralai_907 · May 2016

It is for reasons just like this that I haven't done but one group dungeon a few times, with at least one person I actually knew in the real world, and on the phone. I worry to much about unhelpful/mean people.

I will eventually get to them. And when I am ready/have the time, I planned on finding a nice helpful guild then for more organized group play. Until then, I still have a lot to do, many characters to level, skyshards to gather, achievements to complete, learn new things, improve my builds, etc.

I can help if you need anything crafted and are on the NA server, gear, food, whatever really. Just let me know, my @ name is the same as here. Or if there is anything I can help you out with, let me know.

Jim_Pipp · May 2016

Hi, good post, I'm sorry it wasn't a good group for you.

There are some really good points in this thread, but I just wanted to echo one reoccuring one. The group content is much more challenging than standard PVE stuff, and there a lot of little tricks that only a good group will teach you. It sounds like you are really good at analysing your own performance and identifying what was stopping you being awesome, and if you keep thinking how you can improve your build and performance you will get exponentially stronger. Every build can be improved, but there are a lot of players that stick with a certain build and blame the game for being too hard.

Basically, a bad experience is just feedback. I have been playing the game since beta on PC and the last couple of weeks I've been developing an unusual tanking build, so yesterday I tried it in a group dungeon with some random guys. I was unbelievably bad as a tank, but the group never said that, they just kept giving me hints and rezzing me or themselves when we wiped. My tank needs some work, but it reminded me that most players in this game are reasonable people.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

This is why we need a training mode for new players.

OP.. although none of the seasoned pros want to admit it...they too died on these dungeons.
In fact they wiped...a lot.

When the seasoned pros werent so numerous, everyone was on a similar level.
So failing and carrying each other through was not only expected but required.
Now there is a massive power, knowledge, skill and gear gap between new players and vets when doing these dungeons.
Yet they are all lumped together.

The new players desperately need help patience and friendship to build confidence and skill.
The old players just want to get the thing out the way ASAP so they can get the shiny and move on and expect everyone to be on the same level as them.
You got lumped with the vets that have now become arse-hats.
I am sorry your first team play experience was so unpleasant.
It wasnt always like that.

Have a look in the guild section for casual/social pve guilds (not hardcore/progressive).
They will treat you with respect, help you out and show you the way of the dungeon crawler.
Sad it has come to this. Sad the general population isnt like this anymore.
Alas I called it months ago.

CaptainBeerDude · May 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Protip #53: Never do random dungeons as 9/10 randoms suck.

Nah. I do a lot a randoms. 1/10 are terribad, 1/10 are amazballs, 4/10 are struggle street and 4/10 are decent.
Then it comes down to how well you can fill in when everything goes pear-shaped.

TheUrbanWizard · May 2016

You should be able to self-res while the group is still fighting Imho

Kaspy · May 2016

Don't want to be devil's advocate but honestly, based on your story, I find it hard to agree with all the opinions about the group being bad and unhelpful. The question is rather if you did not expect too much from other random players here. There is no shame in being inexperienced, we all used to be new at some point, but you should not simply expect people to carry you through a dungeon when you came entirely unprepared for the role you choosed:

It was your first dungeon, that's fine, we all have to start somewhere. You informed the group about it, even better, they knew that they could have expected you to not steamroll through it and they did not boot you instantly for being a noob (not all PUG's are so considerate, especially in harder dungeons).

But then, you queued for a support role, without having any experience with group content. Why did you even consider that you could heal a whole group if you never done so before? This is very inconsiderate of the group.

Secondly, you complain that people did not 'explain anything to you'. Did you bother to ask specific questions? Simply saying 'I'm new' won't trigger me to give you a whole tutorial on the whole dungeon. Besides, you say you struggled with the first trash mob already. Tbh, I'm personally always willing to explain boss strategies to other players in PUG's, but what can there be explained about a trash mob?

You say that others did not take aggro off you. Well, in ESO, most cannot and won't. You can safely expect the tank to aggro the boss (though not all bosses are tankable and many will do special attacks on other players while tanked) but most tanks won't be able to cc ALL mobs (if any) and neither will DD's. You need to be able to block, evade and defend yourself, even as a healer - so essentially the same as in solo game.

Well, the soul gems issue is indeed annoying, it was a bad change by ZOS. But did you ask to be rezzed? Other players cannot see that you have no soul gems of the correct level (many might not even know that to be an issue - I didn't until recently as I only did dungeons with veteran characters).

Not having a meal (as I assume): well, you might not know that you need it based on single player PVE experience in the game, although, I would say that if you've done some public dungeons you should be better prepared to at least survive the trash mobs.

Finally, most people running dungeons want to get through them ASAP. I can imagine people getting frustrated if one member dies all the time (therefor cannot perform his role), cannot rez himself, rezzes to wayshrine all the time and generally just holds the group up. You do not specify what that griefing was, perhaps you misinterpreted actual attempt to guide you? In any case, when pugging (but also with organized groups) come at least a bit prepared, don't suck and don't expect to be carried,

Bluepitbull13 · May 2016

As many people have pointed out, joining a Guild would help you out a lot. There's a section in the forums where you can check out guild recruitment threads for your designated flavor of ESO PC/Xbox/PS4/NA/EU. Some of them advertise teamspeak, willing to teach, help with class builds, etc...

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

Maybe we need a Moon and Bird emo...

Yup, we do!

bertenburnyb16_ESO · May 2016

it helps if your group members communicate (explain) stuff and are not totall asses
also, tank should aggro or root mobs, dps's should get them down quick, and well, you should be able to defend/outheal if a mob or 2 is beating on u
also, tempest island is not really a good starter dungeon, its one of the harder ones of the basic dungeons

Divinius · May 2016

Honestly, the fact that the game makes you use Grand soul gems when scaled up is a broken mechanic as far as I'm concerned. It's totally stupid.

Scaling people up is great, but then requiring them to use soul gems that are different from what they would normally need, which don't even have any way of farming (other than buying them for insane prices from an NPC or guild store), is a horrible design flaw.

abreen28 · May 2016

@JamOnIt I totally feel for you. I'm new to the game as well, level 18 Templar and I think my healing skills are pretty decent. It seems everytime I queue for random dungeon I get kicked from the group before I even zone in the dungeon because as soon as I zone it says that I'm being removed from area... My guild told me that it's because of my level that I get kicked a lot.....SAY WHAT???? Isn't the purpose of low level dungeons to LEVEL??? So why in the hell is that a good reason to kick somebody. I love this game but it is the most disturbing on how new players get treated out of any other MMO I've played. Thank goodness I found a great guild, otherwise I would've quit already. It's utterly ridiculous how callous people can be towards new players...

jcjones12 · May 2016

are you on xbox or pc or ps4?

Aisle9 · May 2016

@abreen28 Dungeons scale to the party leader's level, so, technically, there's no such thing as low level dungeons.

Lightninvash · May 2016

JamOnIt wrote: »

level 41 High Elf Sorc.
normal gearset for my level.
Qued as healer.
Normal random group dungeon.

First group dungeon in ESO for me.

Really never liked being a healer in other MMOs, but I know my Sorc's DPS is crap
and my Resto skills are decent (for my level),
so I wanted to give it a try.

Arrived at Tempest Island.
had never heard of it before.

Told the group I'm new.

No one said a word.

Followed the group in.

Died on the first trash mobs.

I was the furthest back of us 4 players.
Am not sure how I drew aggro so quick.
am not familiar with the finer points of ESO game mechanics.

I died; being chased around by a trash mob.

Wasn't able to self-rez.
I have the same soul gems I always rez with.
it won't work.
so I choose "Wayshrine".

I had no idea it would put me outside.
So far, dungeons in normal PVE map never do that to me.
but ok.

I looked at map.
It does not show the entrance.
Well crap.

It shows other teammates.
Ok.
So I ask in chat if they can friend me, so I can teleport to them.
Finally someone says something.
They explain it doesn't work that way for the dungeons.

so ok.
I spend the next several minutes trying to find the entrance,
after explaining I don't know where it is.

no one even attempts to give me a hint about it.

run to team.
get ready.
new fight.

Again,
I start to heal people
and pull aggro; on a small trash mob set.
Not sure what I did wrong.
I was the furthest back of everyone.
no one attempts to grab the creature for me.
I end up dead again.

can't self-rez.
game says I can't do that until the rest of my team is done fighting.
that seems a bit harsh.
but ok.

so I wait.
they finish.
and I'm now allowed to go to Wayshrine again.
I'd rather not.
I have gems left (for my level range). but it won't let me use them.
not sure why.
so i wait.
no one rezzes me.
they just dance around, waiting for me to do whatever I'm going to do.

so I go to wayshrine.

At least now I know how to find my way back.
it won't take long.
but my confidence went from low to none.
I'm not player-skilled, character-skilled, informed, nor geared enough for this.

But as a new player, I have no way to gauge that, except to assume that normal PVE abilities
would translate into group PVE,
and
assume that the random dungeon Que won't put me somewhere I'm not suited for.

Now one of the teammates is upset with me.
gives me grief for going to wayshrine.

If we had a voice server, this would be going a lot better.
-but then again,
if I can't survive a single trash mob encounter,
I shouldn't be there anyways.

so I left.

am not really a PVP kinda guy, so being good at PVE matters, if I'm going to stick around in ESO past this first month.

(Kind)Thoughts?

@JamOnIt Healing can be stressful in a pug(pick up group) via the activity finder. I find if you are a sorc and want the ability to heal get the winged twilight pet. The pet when you activate the ability after the pet is summoned is a good heal. I also Summon the other pet as well for extra dps so I can heal and buff the group while having 2 pets out for dps. I put an aoe on one of my bars as well to help with dps. Having conjured ward is also nice for those oh crap moments and you pull agro so you and your pets can have a nice shield. I use the clanfear pet because it gives a self heal for moments when only I need heals. Another skill that will save your life is Healing ward from the restoration tree. It is the morph of the shield I believe you get at lvl 38. It heals and gives a shield that when expires heals you for the remainder of the shield so is very powerful when low HP.

EDIT: also when you are in a pug you are battle leveled to v15 so you need to use the lvl 50 soulgems to revive. Can always ask players if they have any spares since you wont have any and sometimes people will give them to you so you can rez.

JamOnIt · May 2016

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

@Jamonit,
...if you die and have to run in from the start of the dungeon, you are costing your team a lot of score due to the delay when running through...
.

i didn't realize there's a score for dungeons.
How does the score system work?

thanks

Aisle9 · May 2016

JamOnIt wrote: »

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

@Jamonit,
...if you die and have to run in from the start of the dungeon, you are costing your team a lot of score due to the delay when running through...
.

i didn't realize there's a score for dungeons.
How does the score system work?

thanks

While there is a leaderboard, I doubt people that run with the pugfinder care about that, and, if they do...

If you're on PC, press J, go to the last tab, the one with the Cup

JamOnIt · May 2016

I forgot to mention that I'm on PC.
I didn't see an 'edit' button for the OP, so am adding that note here.

Thank you, all;
for such great responses.

I was worried I would get flamed; from past bad experiences (elsewhere; not in the ESO forums).

I'm still taking notes and opening new google tabs, to look further into some things that were mentioned.

/hugs

Lightninvash · May 2016

abreen28 wrote: »

@JamOnIt I totally feel for you. I'm new to the game as well, level 18 Templar and I think my healing skills are pretty decent. It seems everytime I queue for random dungeon I get kicked from the group before I even zone in the dungeon because as soon as I zone it says that I'm being removed from area... My guild told me that it's because of my level that I get kicked a lot.....SAY WHAT???? Isn't the purpose of low level dungeons to LEVEL??? So why in the hell is that a good reason to kick somebody. I love this game but it is the most disturbing on how new players get treated out of any other MMO I've played. Thank goodness I found a great guild, otherwise I would've quit already. It's utterly ridiculous how callous people can be towards new players...

@abreen28 When you use activity finder the dungeon is scaled to v16 which is max lvl currently. Your char gets scaled to v15 respectively to compensate for the lack of real levels. Many are weary of this because you wont have as many passives and skills as someone who is higher levels. So they feel as the heals they would get from you would be inadequate. That or you will only have heals and no buffs for the group. Some people are jerks like that and see low level and kick because it generally takes longer to do a scaled dungeon with low levels. It takes longer because the lack of skills and passives makes you "weaker" than someone who is v15 (which you are scaled to) so the damage output and heals would be much less than someone of higher level. Also people take in mind if you are low level you probably are using regular dropped gear and not set gear which helps with the bonuses and makes you battle level stronger. if that makes sense? Some people just don't understand there are new people that want to play and learn the game or want to deal with someone new.

Aisle9 · May 2016

JamOnIt wrote: »

I forgot to mention that I'm on PC.

Nvm, changed my mind, totally your fault... what do you mean you're not on PC?

Jk, found this for you, enjoy: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/186604/eso-leaderboards-www-esoleaderboards-com

Bluepitbull13 · May 2016

JamOnIt wrote: »

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

@Jamonit,
...if you die and have to run in from the start of the dungeon, you are costing your team a lot of score due to the delay when running through...
.

i didn't realize there's a score for dungeons.
How does the score system work?

thanks

There isn't a score for public/group/veteran dungeons, only trials/vet dsa/vet ma have scores. I think some people in this thread believe that you were in a trial, which is not the case.

willymchilybily · May 2016

......never thought of this but thats a bit of a bug, a low level characters cant use their soul gems because they are scaled with activity finder to V16 and their soul gems are no longer suitable?

Hi @JamOnIt

There is a lot to learn in the game that isn't immediately obvious. Armor, Attribute Assignment, crafted gear, Skills & Passives, dungeon mechanics. also the random group finder can put you with tanks that dont taunt and DPS that is so bad that you run out of magicka waiting for them to kill.

i suggest you look for a guild, one that speaks if you prefer. (There is a sub forum for such things). There is far too much to explain here. Also look at some guides online deltia's gaming always use to be new player friendly.

abreen28 · May 2016

@Lightninvash I do understand. I'm on Xbox one. I wish there was more help and understanding towards new players. I'm pretty good at catching on to games but this one is very complex and you feel like you're always behind since you aren't a vet with champ points so people don't like to bother with you unless you are maxed.