Nerf WGT ICP yes...the normal

kylewwefan · May 2016

Random daily normal comes up as WGT. 45 minutes with wipes on the adjucator, could not get it done. ICP is just as frustrating. Flesh Sculptor is flipping ridiculous. Having these for undaunted daily' is plain nuts. It's highly possible that I'm really bad, and every group but the one That carried me through here was really really bad.

Okay, so I'm asking for a major nerf on the normal version. Group with 2 v16, a 12&13 couldn't get it done normal.

You're scaling and battle leveling is messed up here for some reason. I can go through orsinium, hews bane, any gold or silver zone, and monsters fall over with a few hits. Here all the adds are like fighting a world boss or something. I have tanked and healed every NORMAL dungeon in the game to completion with ease usually. I think very few people know how or what they are doing and the learning curve is too steep.

Most of my failures and shortcomings here have been on full v16 hard mode, but this group couldn't do it on normal. It's so freaking discouraging to spend time trying to figure this thing out and just wipe over and over. Keep vet mode how it is, heck make it harder, idc. Just a slap to the nuts can't make it through here normal. Gosh.

Humatiel · May 2016

vICP/vWGT (for the next 8 days) is a good example of your ability as a character, If you can reasonably complete it without many wipes then your familiar enough with your character to be considered decent at pve. If on the other hand you cannot then It's very much a L2P issue and I would strongly recommend taking a look at TamrielFoundry for guides.

Overworld npc's are never a good estimation of your abilities as they have been nerfed to the point I've afked before while being attacked and not died, likewise Battle Leveling (assuming you have the abilities themselves unlocked) actually makes your character more powerful then it would normally be assuming you have purple gear.

From a personal point, if you find you are not yet experienced enough to complete these two environments then thats ok, not all content in the game is something that should be accomplished on the first or tenth attempt. View it as something to work toward achieving and this stumble takes on a much more positive light.

NateAssassin · May 2016

These dungeons are not even hard, I've been in groups where the burn through all of WGT without a tank and only offheals, it's not hard to do these. If you can't clear these dungeons, I'd love to see you attempt vMA lol

Brrrofski · May 2016

The vet ones are hard for PUGs. Should be easy for 4 decent players.

The normal ones... They're not close to being difficult sorry to say op.

DangerMan · May 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

Random daily normal comes up as WGT. 45 minutes with wipes on the adjucator, could not get it done. ICP is just as frustrating. Flesh Sculptor is flipping ridiculous. Having these for undaunted daily' is plain nuts. It's highly possible that I'm really bad, and every group but the one That carried me through here was really really bad.

Okay, so I'm asking for a major nerf on the normal version. Group with 2 v16, a 12&13 couldn't get it done normal.

You're scaling and battle leveling is messed up here for some reason. I can go through orsinium, hews bane, any gold or silver zone, and monsters fall over with a few hits. Here all the adds are like fighting a world boss or something. I have tanked and healed every NORMAL dungeon in the game to completion with ease usually. I think very few people know how or what they are doing and the learning curve is too steep.

Most of my failures and shortcomings here have been on full v16 hard mode, but this group couldn't do it on normal. It's so freaking discouraging to spend time trying to figure this thing out and just wipe over and over. Keep vet mode how it is, heck make it harder, idc. Just a slap to the nuts can't make it through here normal. Gosh.

It's all about learning the mechanics OP. If everyone in your group is familiar with the mechanics both of those dungeons are easily farmable (even with PuGs).

What I don't like in this game is when developers way of making things hard is just by overwhelming you with adds. Yes, I'm looking at you vet Maelstrom Arena. Give me mechanics to learn and I'll beat anything anyday. But overwhelm me with adds with no mechanics and it just becomes a chore..

timidobserver · May 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

vICP/vWGT (for the next 8 days) is a good example of your ability as a character, If you can reasonably complete it without many wipes then your familiar enough with your character to be considered decent at pve. If on the other hand you cannot then It's very much a L2P issue and I would strongly recommend taking a look at TamrielFoundry for guides.

Overworld npc's are never a good estimation of your abilities as they have been nerfed to the point I've afked before while being attacked and not died, likewise Battle Leveling (assuming you have the abilities themselves unlocked) actually makes your character more powerful then it would normally be assuming you have purple gear.

From a personal point, if you find you are not yet experienced enough to complete these two environments then thats ok, not all content in the game is something that should be accomplished on the first or tenth attempt. View it as something to work toward achieving and this stumble takes on a much more positive light.

This outlook on things is so 2005. In 2016 people just demand that the developers make the game easier.

Totalitarian · May 2016

ICP: 90% mechanics 10% damage

WGT: 80% mechanics 10% survivability 10% damage

kylewwefan · May 2016

It's frustrating and bull ***, how many times I've tried to go through here and no one knows what they are doing. No ones getting any better. There's a few great players tell everyone it's so easy, you don't need a tank or a healer....maybe they're right? IDK?

id like to have a Kena and Lord Warden helm and many of the cool sets that come from there......I'm really hoping they nerf it hard this next update. Maybe it's different on PlayStation?

Rainteal · May 2016

For those that say that vICP and vWGT are "easy," I am pretty sure that you are out of touch with the skill level/gear/CP/builds of the vast majority of players in this game.

I am the GM of a small and diverse guild, about 100 people, and of those, there are about 7 of us who can easily clear all of the content in this game. After that, there are about 10 more who can join one of our groups and clear all and effectively run other "lesser vets" and may have tried to do some vMSA. Going from there, many others run only normal dungeons (if any at all) and think that any vet dungeon is far too hard for them unless they run it in a guild group with some of our top players. Lots of folks haven't even gotten to v16 yet on a single character.

The above is not meant to disparage anyone. I thoroughly enjoy running with all of the players in my guild, from speed runs in vICP to normal Fungal with someone doing their first pledge. The people make the game for me. With that being said though, I feel that my guild represents a pretty good "slice of life" from the ESO population.

"Most" players do not find vICP to be easy at all. Now, I am totally OK with that. There should be hard content out there that people strive to get to the level of playing easily. That is part of the fun in progression, but I think the OP is on to something with the normal version. Many of the guys in my guild just skip the pledges for two days when ICP and WGT come up. I honestly wish that they would go the route of nerfing the normal more and then preserving the difficulty of the vets. The normal would be easily accessible to all levels of players, and then folks who wanted to take their gaming to the next level could seek out groups for the vet. Obviously, this isn't going to happen, but it is something I would hope the developers would consider more in the future.

Lenikus · May 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

Random daily normal comes up as WGT.

You do realise there's this list that the game follows, right ?

baratron · May 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Random daily normal comes up as WGT.

You do realise there's this list that the game follows, right ?

Random daily =/= Pledge

Random daily dungeons are started through the Group tool.

Che · May 2016

I completely agree. Remove v/nICP and WGT from daily quests!

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

I'll just leave it here... Veteran WGT finished with just light attacks from dds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eACSnaI1gFY
So those of you who are complaining about the difficulty, if your dps is lower than just light attack spam, maybe you actually need to pay a bit more attention to the game mechanics.

daemonios · May 2016

I'm sorry but if you're falling on normal you need to think about what you're doing as a player and as a group.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Rainteal wrote: »

For those that say that vICP and vWGT are "easy," I am pretty sure that you are out of touch with the skill level/gear/CP/builds of the vast majority of players in this game.

I am the GM of a small and diverse guild, about 100 people, and of those, there are about 7 of us who can easily clear all of the content in this game. After that, there are about 10 more who can join one of our groups and clear all and effectively run other "lesser vets" and may have tried to do some vMSA. Going from there, many others run only normal dungeons (if any at all) and think that any vet dungeon is far too hard for them unless they run it in a guild group with some of our top players. Lots of folks haven't even gotten to v16 yet on a single character.

The above is not meant to disparage anyone. I thoroughly enjoy running with all of the players in my guild, from speed runs in vICP to normal Fungal with someone doing their first pledge. The people make the game for me. With that being said though, I feel that my guild represents a pretty good "slice of life" from the ESO population.

"Most" players do not find vICP to be easy at all. Now, I am totally OK with that. There should be hard content out there that people strive to get to the level of playing easily. That is part of the fun in progression, but I think the OP is on to something with the normal version. Many of the guys in my guild just skip the pledges for two days when ICP and WGT come up. I honestly wish that they would go the route of nerfing the normal more and then preserving the difficulty of the vets. The normal would be easily accessible to all levels of players, and then folks who wanted to take their gaming to the next level could seek out groups for the vet. Obviously, this isn't going to happen, but it is something I would hope the developers would consider more in the future.

The topic is about normal versions, if you havent noticed.
Also, I help my guildies from social guild with these dungeons from time to time, and I gotta say the only thing that can prevent an average player from beating them is ultimate selfishness and not willing to adapt. For example, not taking pinion cause it will lower their dps, even if tank died and healer got portal duty. Or not jumping in Lord Warden's portals because they are busy attacking him.
If you are such player or have one or more of those in your group, then yeah, you are going to have hard time.

Mush55 · May 2016

Nerf people who cant be bother to practice, read, or watch a few you tube videos

Vet Wgt is not that hard after a few runs through the hardest part is closing the portals thats if your a mellee dps,

Icp is a bit tougher but again do it a few times and it gets easier do as suggested in the first line.
In my opinion and these do not need to be made any more face roll than they already are never said this before but it's a L2p issue

And most people skip the normal version well because it's the normal and then come moaning when it all goes wrong I used to think they were impossible but after 2 or 3 runs the mechanics slip into place and it then gets easier.

willymchilybily · May 2016

I believe normal mobs in wgt and prison are stronger than in normal versions of other dungeons. If you are struggling in these dungeons its for two reasons:

failure to understand mechanics.
DPS is so low so tank and healer cant sustain themselves for the entire duration of the fight because it takes too long.

But do not worry I believe these dungeons are being nerfed in the next update (mid june). They don't need it but they will get it supposedly. but with the crappy drop rate we currently have i think its fair to make it easier.

also indicates to me probably not long till these dungeon gear sets are no longer optimal, lets see what E3 brings (June 14-16), *hopes for 4 man content in the dlc to follow*

Flameheart · May 2016

Huh ?

...not again please...

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Actually it would be nice to remove them from random dungeon finder tool, because of 2 reasons:
1) Sometimes it can queue people that dont have access to dlc
2) They require a bit of coordination (and will still require it since pinions/portals/grenades are there even after the nerf), and since console versions lack text chat and people might not want (or be able) to join voice chat, it might cause problems.

JD2013 · May 2016

I did WGT normal on my first ever go with a group ever. It is a piece of cake during a walk in the park.

greylox · May 2016

This is silly. I've done ICP and WGT with 2 non vet pugs over the last 2 days. Yesterday we did icp with 2 Lvl 39 Lvl 14 and Lvl 10 and I was on my hybrid sorc, no voice chat, we just told the lower levels the very simple mechanics...Is this a joke thread?

Duiwel · May 2016

I love how people today just scream nerf this and nerf that, no wonder Strategy game genre has died people can't calculate or self improve anymore they just expect everything to be do-able as they are right then and there.

OP Please list some detailed information for us so that we can actually HELP you improve in the game

First things first:

I can already assume you guys were not max level, you guys didn't know any of the mechanics, you guys didn't have voice chat, you guys didn't have proper gear.

I assume that I am correct in the above assumptions you can just say yes in your reply to me, remember to say @Duiwel when doing so so that I get the notification.

So let's begin:

First of all that is the second hardest dungeon in the game at present. ICP being the hardest.
You need to KNOW the mechanics, but so does your group just you knowing what to do when isn't much help if the other guys don't know the mechanics either since it will either cause unnecessary deaths or the healer will not have any resources most of the time and thus it will be a very frustrating experience.

Although voice chat is not required it is recommended for first timers so as to co-ordinate, especially with a pug group.

If you are not max level it's safe to assume your gear might not be your exact level ( you might be using gear that's perhaps a level or 2 under your current level ) this will make you weaker than you are suppose to be. It's also safe to assume you guys are not using set gear or have the optimal skills slotted for your builds ( especially given the lack of information as well as simply calling for a nerf without any real reason ). Even though for some reason Zenimax already listened and it will become easier with DB.

Gearing up in this game is more important than actually knowing what skills to use imo. You can use non-optimal skills and still be able to complete the majority of the game with that. However without optimal gear you will hit a wall ( like you have in this situation ).

Might I suggest watching Deltia's Gaming Youtube channel to learn how the dungeon works, as well as possibly watching a few build videos ( try and look for the updated for the Dark Brotherhood ones if you can ).

Instead of blaming the dungeon and displacing responsibility might I suggest looking at the root of the problem? Self improvement is a wonderful thing OP. The feeling you get when you finally get good in a game can be a memorable thing so I suggest taking responsibility and improving your own skill. IF need be, stop grouping with randoms that are possibly bad, group with ppl you have previously run with and know they are good at their role / class. Make friends, ask for help from guilds

People will help you get good at the game, but don't take this lazy approach of I couldn't do something it's probably too hard to do, instead of thinking ...hmmm hundreds of thousands of people can do this without dying, what am I doing wrong? How can I change this?

(I am trying to teach you a very important lesson in life)

Mush55 · May 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

I love how people today just scream nerf this and nerf that, no wonder Strategy game genre has died people can't calculate or self improve anymore they just expect everything to be do-able as they are right then and there.

OP Please list some detailed information for us so that we can actually HELP you improve in the game

First things first:

I can already assume you guys were not max level, you guys didn't know any of the mechanics, you guys didn't have voice chat, you guys didn't have proper gear.

I assume that I am correct in the above assumptions you can just say yes in your reply to me, remember to say @Duiwel when doing so so that I get the notification.

So let's begin:

First of all that is the second hardest dungeon in the game at present. ICP being the hardest.
You need to KNOW the mechanics, but so does your group just you knowing what to do when isn't much help if the other guys don't know the mechanics either since it will either cause unnecessary deaths or the healer will not have any resources most of the time and thus it will be a very frustrating experience.

Although voice chat is not required it is recommended for first timers so as to co-ordinate, especially with a pug group.

If you are not max level it's safe to assume your gear might not be your exact level ( you might be using gear that's perhaps a level or 2 under your current level ) this will make you weaker than you are suppose to be. It's also safe to assume you guys are not using set gear or have the optimal skills slotted for your builds ( especially given the lack of information as well as simply calling for a nerf without any real reason ). Even though for some reason Zenimax already listened and it will become easier with DB.

Gearing up in this game is more important than actually knowing what skills to use imo. You can use non-optimal skills and still be able to complete the majority of the game with that. However without optimal gear you will hit a wall ( like you have in this situation ).

Might I suggest watching Deltia's Gaming Youtube channel to learn how the dungeon works, as well as possibly watching a few build videos ( try and look for the updated for the Dark Brotherhood ones if you can ).

Instead of blaming the dungeon and displacing responsibility might I suggest looking at the root of the problem? Self improvement is a wonderful thing OP. The feeling you get when you finally get good in a game can be a memorable thing so I suggest taking responsibility and improving your own skill. IF need be, stop grouping with randoms that are possibly bad, group with ppl you have previously run with and know they are good at their role / class. Make friends, ask for help from guilds

People will help you get good at the game, but don't take this lazy approach of I couldn't do something it's probably too hard to do, instead of thinking ...hmmm hundreds of thousands of people can do this without dying, what am I doing wrong? How can I change this?

(I am trying to teach you a very important lesson in life)

This in a nut shell, and it dosn't matter if you die or wipe it's part of the learning process.

It's usually me that dies in the grp, but I put that down to being old ( my excuse anyway)

kylewwefan · May 2016

@Duiwel my Templar healer is julianos, willpower, Tourgs sword DW, Nightflame or Engine Guardian. My NB tank is 5 armor master, 5 footman, blood spawn. I can switch tanks gears with hundings, agility, nightmother, blood spawn helm/kena shoulder. I use blue food on healer, purple on tank.
All my monster pieces are gold, and weapons are gold most other stuff is purple.

I've no idea what anyone else is wearing. Here's what usually happens. Fight is going good, someone gets thrown in jail and dies. The adds start to over run whil the tank is holding immolator or ajectator things fall apart. Someone else dies trying to res someone. Wipe. It's rare to make it past the first boss in my experiences.

Only time I've beat the planar inhibitor, the group had me grab pinion, kite around the room til I died, they do their thing whatever that is. Res me to grab pinion again, til I die. Again. Maybe do that a few times....I've no idea what happened but they beat her.

Duiwel · May 2016

Not gear, mechanics and inexperienced pug groups then, this is an easy fix OP.

Watch a few guides to learn the mechanics, play with people who already have the achievement. So you know you are not going to become frustrated.

sekou_trayvond · May 2016

@Rainteal speaks truth.

My normal 4 person group- my wife and another couple- routinely run Undaunted dungeons on the weekends.

We are by no means awesome. We take our victories as they come and realize that we need to work our way up to vCOA, let alone ICP and WGT.

In addition, it does not bother us that these dungeons are super hard (for us, that is). We know we'll conquer them at some point. Learn the mechanics is our goal and our strength comes from the fact that we know each other's builds nearly as much as our own. Plus, we communicate really well, thanks to being friends and using TS.

I do echo some thoughts above re:mobs. I too wish these weren't the go to means to achieve "difficulty".

Mush55 · May 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

@Duiwel my Templar healer is julianos, willpower, Tourgs sword DW, Nightflame or Engine Guardian. My NB tank is 5 armor master, 5 footman, blood spawn. I can switch tanks gears with hundings, agility, nightmother, blood spawn helm/kena shoulder. I use blue food on healer, purple on tank.
All my monster pieces are gold, and weapons are gold most other stuff is purple.

I've no idea what anyone else is wearing. Here's what usually happens. Fight is going good, someone gets thrown in jail and dies. The adds start to over run whil the tank is holding immolator or ajectator things fall apart. Someone else dies trying to res someone. Wipe. It's rare to make it past the first boss in my experiences.

Only time I've beat the planar inhibitor, the group had me grab pinion, kite around the room til I died, they do their thing whatever that is. Res me to grab pinion again, til I die. Again. Maybe do that a few times....I've no idea what happened but they beat her.

Julianous is a good dps set, I would get 5 kagrenaks, healer .

As for being in the cage thats just a lock pick practice and legerdomain lvl up thing so you can break the lock. but you cant do anything about other players not being good at it unless you can assign some one to pick locks who is good at it in the grp, pref one of the dps

Rainteal · May 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

The topic is about normal versions, if you havent noticed.
Also, I help my guildies from social guild with these dungeons from time to time, and I gotta say the only thing that can prevent an average player from beating them is ultimate selfishness and not willing to adapt. For example, not taking pinion cause it will lower their dps, even if tank died and healer got portal duty. Or not jumping in Lord Warden's portals because they are busy attacking him.
If you are such player or have one or more of those in your group, then yeah, you are going to have hard time.

My comments about the vet circled back and contributed to my point about the normal at the end of my post. Not sure why you felt I didn't notice the topic was about normal?

I am in no way trying to be obtuse toward you, but I wonder, as a guy in Hodor with a vMOL score, how much time do you really spend playing and interacting with actual casual, average gamers? (especially the level of casual player that console produces) I ask that question honestly and wish for you to really consider it. I believe the truly average player would not miss picking up the pinion for risk of DPS suffering, but instead because they are totally overwhelmed with the fires bursting from the floor, the boss's AoE explosion, and the DoT constantly chipping away at their health bar. The fight is probably going on much longer than it needs to because the folks are doing far less damage without BiS gear and skill choices, and with a longer fight, the lesser player is in greater jeopardy from those mechanics. They also lack the self-awareness to quickly react to portals spawning while avoiding ground AoEs and dodging boss.

For these reasons, I am all for making the normal easier than it is now. Let those folks see and enjoy that content. With that said, leave the vet versions alone, heck, buff them significantly to give folks like us something to do.

kylewwefan · May 2016

I've seen many videos. I know what's supposed to happen. The first trash mob with the lacerator should practically fall over when you approach them.....this rarely happens for me. Against my better judgement, I carry on with these groups thinking...maybe this time will be different. It never is.

Woeler · May 2016

Even a goldfish can complete those dungeons on normal.

JD2013 · May 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

I love how people today just scream nerf this and nerf that, no wonder Strategy game genre has died people can't calculate or self improve anymore they just expect everything to be do-able as they are right then and there.

OP Please list some detailed information for us so that we can actually HELP you improve in the game

First things first:

I can already assume you guys were not max level, you guys didn't know any of the mechanics, you guys didn't have voice chat, you guys didn't have proper gear.

I assume that I am correct in the above assumptions you can just say yes in your reply to me, remember to say @Duiwel when doing so so that I get the notification.

So let's begin:

First of all that is the second hardest dungeon in the game at present. ICP being the hardest.
You need to KNOW the mechanics, but so does your group just you knowing what to do when isn't much help if the other guys don't know the mechanics either since it will either cause unnecessary deaths or the healer will not have any resources most of the time and thus it will be a very frustrating experience.

Although voice chat is not required it is recommended for first timers so as to co-ordinate, especially with a pug group.

If you are not max level it's safe to assume your gear might not be your exact level ( you might be using gear that's perhaps a level or 2 under your current level ) this will make you weaker than you are suppose to be. It's also safe to assume you guys are not using set gear or have the optimal skills slotted for your builds ( especially given the lack of information as well as simply calling for a nerf without any real reason ). Even though for some reason Zenimax already listened and it will become easier with DB.

Gearing up in this game is more important than actually knowing what skills to use imo. You can use non-optimal skills and still be able to complete the majority of the game with that. However without optimal gear you will hit a wall ( like you have in this situation ).

Might I suggest watching Deltia's Gaming Youtube channel to learn how the dungeon works, as well as possibly watching a few build videos ( try and look for the updated for the Dark Brotherhood ones if you can ).

Instead of blaming the dungeon and displacing responsibility might I suggest looking at the root of the problem? Self improvement is a wonderful thing OP. The feeling you get when you finally get good in a game can be a memorable thing so I suggest taking responsibility and improving your own skill. IF need be, stop grouping with randoms that are possibly bad, group with ppl you have previously run with and know they are good at their role / class. Make friends, ask for help from guilds

People will help you get good at the game, but don't take this lazy approach of I couldn't do something it's probably too hard to do, instead of thinking ...hmmm hundreds of thousands of people can do this without dying, what am I doing wrong? How can I change this?

(I am trying to teach you a very important lesson in life)

^ He's right, you know.