Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)

Personofsecrets · May 2016

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

They made a choice to pay to win

I made a choice to not pay to win

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

They made a choice to pay to win

I made a choice to not pay to win

So, do you win when you get all the crafting mats? Is that how it works?

Curragraigue · May 2016

Subscribers currently get a crafting research perk. That perk over time becomes less valuable as more subscribers complete research. The crafting bag provides another crafting related perk that is of benefit to all subscribers and which does not provide any in game benefit beyond convenience.

Have been subscribing since launch so I am happy that we are getting this perk.

Acrolas · May 2016

I don't think the crafting bag should be purchasable. If ZOS wants unlimited crafting space as part of the subscription, fine.

But I'm not asking for unlimited space. I'm asking for the bank to be raised to 320 or 360 so my soon to be 12 characters can have 27 to 30 bank spaces apiece.

Not asking for a billion spaces. Never will.

Asking for literally 7 to 10 extra bank allotments per character for this year.

But, no, these threads are like me going to the library to get a book on trade relations, and the librarian telling me to STFU and get my doctorate in international relations. I don't need a doctorate. Just a book. A fairly small increment past what I already have.

There's no need to ever go to extremes, except, apparently, when you're dealing with people on the Internet.
But I'm not going to STFU because if nobody speaks up, ZOS probably won't realize why their bloated bag didn't really solve anything other than adding some value to a subscription that some people apparently treat with a ceremonial reverence.

If you want to stuff a billion pumpkins where the sun never shines, fine, but don't deny people basic increments just because you're blinded by love for your new toy.

Epona222 · May 2016

I can understand people who for whatever financial reason cannot sub, I know that not everyone has a credit card to sub online or has a store nearby that sells timecards. What I cannot understand, is people who say "but I spend x amount of dollars on crowns and I spend more than I would on a sub" but object to paying for that as a sub instead - you get the crowns anyway as part of the sub package, and it just seems like being contrary or stubborn for no explicable (at least as far as I can see) reason.

I mean I'm not wealthy, and having a sub works out better for me. In our household budget, after we've paid for mortgage/bills/food, all the necessities, we have a little bit of money aside for myself and my husband to enjoy on our hobbies and interests - I have a sub to this game and occasionally buy crowns, my husband buys games when they are on sale on Steam and comics - not vast amounts of spare cash but it works out fine.

If I had the choice to spend the equivalent of $15 dollars per month on a crown pack, or on a sub, the sub clearly wins due to craft bags - I don't understand why anyone would insist on spending more than that on crowns and moaning about not getting craft bags, it's fairly nonsensical if you ask me.

newtinmpls · May 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

I don't think the crafting bag should be purchasable. If ZOS wants unlimited crafting space as part of the subscription, fine.

But I'm not asking for unlimited space. I'm asking for the bank to be raised to 320 or 360 so my soon to be 12 characters can have 27 to 30 bank spaces apiece.

How many bank spaces do you have? I've been on two accounts for over two years, and my bank and bag spaces are still not maxed out. For me it's an in-game money issue.

Yes, I will love crafting bags and all that, but I'm not a farmer, I'm not a ganker, I just play for fun and if I'm recalling correctly my bank is about 110 and most of my characters are at about 100.

Vangy · May 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

@Doncellius subbing for one month won't work. Stacks I think are locked once you let subscription lapse. So let's say you have a stack of 1000000 silk in bag. If you craft at a station you'd need to withdraw that whole 1000000 stack. You can't just withdraw let's say 50.

My plan was to probably get a Sub for one month to put everything in the Crafting Bag.

So your saying if I have.... 3026 Voidstone Ingots, I'd have to pull them all out even if I want to withdraw like 14 of them?

I thought I could deposit and withdraw as normal until the Sub ran out, then I would not be able to deposit.

@Doncellius : You can use your bag freely up till sub runs out. When sub runs out, you cannot break stacks. You would need to withdraw the whole jingbang of 3026 ingots to use even 10. You also cannot deposit anything further into craft bag, thereby rendering the bag useless.

This prevents any oh im just going to sub for one month and get bags issues. ZOS clearly means for these bags to be only available for use on loyal subscribers. No way around it for the time being.

Vangy · May 2016

Where do people get this ridiculous notion that non-subs spend anywhere near what an average subscriber spends?

If I get all DLCS with crown packs im paying around 12-14k crowns a year. 14k crowns bought during sales makes this even cheaper. Thats less than about 100 bucks a year.

A sub nets me 1.5k crowns a month. X12 = 18k crowns. And these 1.5k crowns come at a price of 15 bucks a month... Thats 180 bucks...

You say oh non-subs use crowns for more stuff than DLCS so you guys get more? Well so do subs. That 1.5k crowns a month doesnt pay for jack when a simple mount costs 2.5k..... At a base line subs pay around 50% more than you. In return we get a nice 10% boost to some useless stuff... We get access to DLCs you say? Yeah but the second we cancel sub there goes all our investment. All those 15 bucks a month and we get nothing to show for it. Its only ez pz when we KEEP PAYING. And thats what ZOS is rewarding. Customers who give them 15 bucks a month, every month till the day we uninstall ESO from our PC. Not people who spend 30 or 40 odd bucks twice a year.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

They made a choice to pay to win

I made a choice to not pay to win

If you can explain how having a crafting bags give me an advantage over you, I will quit ESO and give you my account and continue to pay for the subscription for you @Personofsecrets

KingDuncanVII · May 2016

I just use crafting alts. Have them hold all of your crafting materials. The bag is a nice convenience, but not game breaking. There are other ways to achieve convenience when it comes to inventory/bank space.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Where do people get this ridiculous notion that non-subs spend anywhere near what an average subscriber spends?

If I get all DLCS with crown packs im paying around 12-14k crowns a year. 14k crowns bought during sales makes this even cheaper. Thats less than about 100 bucks a year.

A sub nets me 1.5k crowns a month. X12 = 18k crowns. And these 1.5k crowns come at a price of 15 bucks a month... Thats 180 bucks...

You say oh non-subs use crowns for more stuff than DLCS so you guys get more? Well so do subs. That 1.5k crowns a month doesnt pay for jack when a simple mount costs 2.5k..... At a base line subs pay around 50% more than you. In return we get a nice 10% boost to some useless stuff... We get access to DLCs you say? Yeah but the second we cancel sub there goes all our investment. All those 15 bucks a month and we get nothing to show for it. Its only ez pz when we KEEP PAYING. And thats what ZOS is rewarding. Customers who give them 15 bucks a month, every month till the day we uninstall ESO from our PC. Not people who spend 30 or 40 odd bucks twice a year.

Exactly! I love how some people think subs only use crowns they got from ESO+ and never buy any outside of the sub benefit.

Waffennacht · May 2016

I was an ESO+ member when there was no crafting bag, now im not a member and im still fine with ESO+ getting some perks, come on, be happy for others

at least you know they paid for it.

Now if only people whom started after x date got something then you'd have something to complain about.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Where do people get this ridiculous notion that non-subs spend anywhere near what an average subscriber spends?

If I get all DLCS with crown packs im paying around 12-14k crowns a year. 14k crowns bought during sales makes this even cheaper. Thats less than about 100 bucks a year.

A sub nets me 1.5k crowns a month. X12 = 18k crowns. And these 1.5k crowns come at a price of 15 bucks a month... Thats 180 bucks...

You say oh non-subs use crowns for more stuff than DLCS so you guys get more? Well so do subs. That 1.5k crowns a month doesnt pay for jack when a simple mount costs 2.5k..... At a base line subs pay around 50% more than you. In return we get a nice 10% boost to some useless stuff... We get access to DLCs you say? Yeah but the second we cancel sub there goes all our investment. All those 15 bucks a month and we get nothing to show for it. Its only ez pz when we KEEP PAYING. And thats what ZOS is rewarding. Customers who give them 15 bucks a month, every month till the day we uninstall ESO from our PC. Not people who spend 30 or 40 odd bucks twice a year.

You should check my math a little higher up. I broke it down a little further than that. Looks like we essentially agree.

newtinmpls · May 2016

KingDuncanVII wrote: »

I just use crafting alts. Have them hold all of your crafting materials. The bag is a nice convenience, but not game breaking. There are other ways to achieve convenience when it comes to inventory/bank space.

I cannot do that. All my characters are characters. I will not bore you with the backstories of not only all the ones I currently run, but all their siblings and family, and lovers and and and. ...

If extra characters were a loyalty reward for each ... year of subbing.... OMFG

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

KingDuncanVII wrote: »

I just use crafting alts. Have them hold all of your crafting materials. The bag is a nice convenience, but not game breaking. There are other ways to achieve convenience when it comes to inventory/bank space.

I cannot do that. All my characters are characters. I will not bore you with the backstories of not only all the ones I currently run, but all their siblings and family, and lovers and and and. ...

If extra characters were a loyalty reward for each ... year of subbing.... OMFG

Looks like they're selling character slots for one months worth of Crowns. So there's that.

acw37162 · May 2016

Let me help you with the answer you already know;

Crafting bags = an exclusive perk to provide incentive/pressure to sub.

The game developers really want you to sub, it looks good on their bottom line, it looks good to shareholders, and it keeps people employed and new content in the pipeline.

While I can completely understand wanting a purchaseable crafting bag at the very least ESO has told you from the very beginning it is a ESO plus exclusive they have not wavered, have not said maybe, have not given ambiguous signals.

And furthermore they made the system user friendly for sub for one month out all your stuff in the bag and let your sub expire you can still access the materials just not put anymore in.

If they sold a crafting bag I wouldn't care if they leave it ESO plus only I wouldn't care but they have been very very fair and saying they are not is very disingenuous and inaccurate.

pod88kk · May 2016

Why not make crafting bags purchaseable, that'd surely solve all the problems. For instance I'm not a subscriber but I have paid a substantial amount of money for the things I have in game, mounts, dlcs, costumes etc I feel that I need to be rewarded for my income too otherwise it feels that the devs just don't appreciate the people who don't have a steady income to pay a subscription but will happily pay for a new Dlc or something they really like as soon as they can afford it.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

pod88kk wrote: »

Why not make crafting bags purchaseable, that'd surely solve all the problems. For instance I'm not a subscriber but I have paid a substantial amount of money for the things I have in game, mounts, dlcs, costumes etc I feel that I need to be rewarded for my income too otherwise it feels that the devs just don't appreciate the people who don't have a steady income to pay a subscription but will happily pay for a new Dlc or something they really like as soon as they can afford it.

Why do you people think you deserve a reward for buying things? You wouldn't walk into Best Buy and say, "Hey, I bought a lot of things last year, give me free stuff as a reward." That's madness.!

You don't get rewards for getting what you paid for. Second, the crafting bag is NOT A LOYALTY REWARD. It's not ar eward for what you did in the past.

It's an incentive to subscribe, not a reward to past subscribers.

A new player could buy the game tomorrow, subscribe and get the bag. They aren't loyal, they're brand new. Just like you could subscribe tomorrow and get the bag even though you've never subscribed before.

b92303008rwb17_ESO · May 2016

Sell it as an option I would buy it even if it were 2000 crowns or whatever.

I am confused that if you would buy it if it were 2000 crowns, why not just subscribe? Or do you despise the very concept or subscription?

What about all that money spent on the expansions? Would we be entitled to a refund since these purchased items are now included free? No there needs to be some fair mindedness and common sence applied here.

Expansion purchases and subscriptions are two totally different things. You lose access to the expansions if you unsubscribe but the subscription also grant you 1500 crowns to buy out the expansion. Or do you think these crowns are free gifts?

Personally, I think 1500 crowns per month is a pretty good deal considering TG and DB both cost only 2000 and 4000 for the whole package. If you'd like to buy some other vanity items like merchant or banker, they should be on your own anyway.

Dracan_Fontom · May 2016

In every Free to Play game, there is always a benefit to subing. It's a Motivation and not at all bad. Honestly if you really think about it, you can pay 15 bucks for a month and unsub to still have access to the bag but you won't be able to put anything in it.

nimander99 · May 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

I don't think the crafting bag should be purchasable. If ZOS wants unlimited crafting space as part of the subscription, fine.

But I'm not asking for unlimited space. I'm asking for the bank to be raised to 320 or 360 so my soon to be 12 characters can have 27 to 30 bank spaces apiece.

Not asking for a billion spaces. Never will.

Asking for literally 7 to 10 extra bank allotments per character for this year.

This is actually a really good point, one I hadn't considered. With the extra purchasable character slot there should absolutely be a bank space increase.

Good point @Acrolas , this is why I read the forums, because of posts like this that make me look at a thing in a different light or consider something form a different point of view.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

t

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. thats all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1. No they promised not to make it harder and not to adjust it that way and they have not, if you do not sub then your inventory options will be exactly the same after DB drops as they are today and have been all through the games life. Subscribers will certainly find life more vonvenient but non subscribers will not lose anything real - this is purely a psychological loss to you, you arvecperiencing bag envy.
2. Honestly do not know enough about these specific platform issues to comment.
3. A predictable revenue stream is very good for a company and allows them to make plans without having to guess how many of us will buy the latest senche reskin. If bags get people to pay their pretty low monthly sub then it could boost the game. If not then I would ecpect a very expensive crown item to add bags in 6-9 months.
4. As someone who has studied evonomics and worked in marketing I can say you are mistaken - steady revenue streams allow companies to make forward plans. It is why firms will make a big deal about their forward order books when announcing results to the markets and why firms who can point at solid future revenue are also solid investments.
5. Why June 20th?

@Tavore1138

1. Please read the article and then watch the ESO live episode that same timeframe. Literally watch it and listen to what Matt and the staff say. In your comment you literally write out my point. In context to the removal of the subscription requirement and the addition of the crown store thoe comments are not being followed. Download the PTS and go play it this week.

Playing PTS without ESO plus vs with ESO plus specific to the crafting bags is on average 100-250 inventory slots or more freed up. For me it's over 450 so it's literally harder to play the game without the subscription which is the only way o get the crafting bad. At the base of the rotten comments, that's one point. But listen to the other dialogue around paid items vs in-game where intially anything "paid for" was to also be available without paying. Now the paid items are to be more convenient but not exclusive by type, visual, feature and effects.

Your comments about a predictable revenue stream....have you actually run a real business or just learned about from someone else's theories. I ask because I've actually run a real business for over 5 years. It was internet based where I sold products and services nationwide. I had deliveries setup, dealing with website fees, maintenance, subscribers and buyers, etc. While in theory colleges and seminars suggest subscribers are predictable, they actually aren't.

The truth is it's more likely that someone will forget to cancel their subscription or not want to bother with it until there is a lack of funds. As the business owner, you deal with charge backs, fraud claims and solemn credit card transactions as well as insufficient funds. Nothing about it is predictable. Also, just in case this wasn't taught, visa, master card, PayPal, square, etc all have fees associated with them just like PSn and Xbox One. Then there is the reality that credit cards aren't real money so you're waiting on different financial institutions to release funds on whatever schedules they have domestic and international also by time zone.

It's great that you studied someone else's ideas (economics) but the real world isn't that reality. Firms who point towards steady revenue streams aren't doing it with subscribers, they are doing it with stocks, and investments as well as other budgets. Real money is cash, everything else is literally "projections" and "goals".

This is where all of you who keep suggesting that subscriptions are good for the company are mistaken. Subscriptions are good when the investor meeting asks for proof of how many active customers they have and the revenue stream cause they can "project" a theoretic value but it's nothing more than a guess. That's not an operating budget or company earnings. Those are calculated differently usually approx 45-60 after "X" dates.

As far as June 20th, that is approx the amount of days after the console get the update and the time it takes for ppl to sub and then cancel their renewals. The whole point of launching on consoles was to reach other markets but reality is, that those platforms don't create the same profit margins as PC for ZOS. When we "buy" ESO plus on Xbox one, often times if it's not PayPal, it doesn't actually hit until 3-5 days later so June 20th and there-after is the date of reality.

Just stay around and watch the forums.

Your ESO live point is valid. It does seem like they have pivoted a little with the crafting bags. It would be a fair accusation to call that pivoting 'breaking their word'.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced by your economics point. If you ran a business that worried about credit card fees, it sounds like it was very small scale. A company as large as ZOS (or Zenimax Media) can negotiate great terms and has scale. They aren't sitting by the mailbox waiting for a check to arrive.

"Real money is cash"? You don't plan the future of a business unit based on just cash. You plan it based on projections. I am currently shifting from one business unit to another because a large corporation is moving away from a business that still has high revenue. The problem is that changes in markets and less favorable contract terms show a future of slow or negative growth. Perhaps a mom and pop store would be fine with that. Large corporations aren't. They aren't satisfied with profitable business units. They want high margins and want to make sure they get out long before those collapse.

Another problem with "real money is cash" is that a deal for $10 million over 3 years doesn't show up in accounting all at once. But that revenue stream is guaranteed by a contract. Corporations love that.

The question you should be asking is whether ESO+ subs are stable enough to use for forecasting. Only ZOS knows for sure what the retention rate is for ESO+. Crafting bags could increase the retention rate greatly, along with adding more subs. I, for one, will likely sub for 1 month each time a new DLC drops. I'm not sure if that helps them.

The major advantage of selling crowns is that you get your money up front. ZOS can also monitor the spending of crowns to estimate when people would need to re-up to not be rudderless in forecasting when they can expect new revenue. I have bought 4 DLC from the same 11000 crowns purchased on sale. In money terms, they seem to be in great shape since they got the money early and can reinvest that. A dollar now is worth more than a dollar next month. On the downside, if people loaded up on crowns on sale such that they don't need to buy more for another year, the revenue chart looks ugly, since revenue is decreasing. Corporations don't like that. They like their lines to always go up.

You should look at Microsoft. They want people to subscribe to Office 365 instead of buying Office outright. You can still buy Office, but they prefer people subbing even though they get less money up front.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

KingDuncanVII wrote: »

I just use crafting alts. Have them hold all of your crafting materials. The bag is a nice convenience, but not game breaking. There are other ways to achieve convenience when it comes to inventory/bank space.

This does not help with bags filling if you auto-loot everything as you go. Since my inventory has been fuller, I have found a lot less motif books because I loot less. With crafting bags, I can loot again with impunity.

Since there is no easy way to transfer loot to an alt without interrupting your actually playing of the game, I'm not sure how your method (which I already use) is "achieving convenience".

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · May 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

KingDuncanVII wrote: »

I just use crafting alts. Have them hold all of your crafting materials. The bag is a nice convenience, but not game breaking. There are other ways to achieve convenience when it comes to inventory/bank space.

This does not help with bags filling if you auto-loot everything as you go. Since my inventory has been fuller, I have found a lot less motif books because I loot less. With crafting bags, I can loot again with impunity.

Since there is no easy way to transfer loot to an alt without interrupting your actually playing of the game, I'm not sure how your method (which I already use) is "achieving convenience".

I have a good plan to achieve convenience that works in just 10 easy steps!

1. Log into account and go to online store. (Easy enough)
2. Find the ESO Plus Membership and select Buy Now (Pretty straight forward)
3. Select preferred payment option and continue (Self-explanatory)
4. Enter all info required (Hopefully you know it all by now)
5. Take out your wallet (Fairly easy step as long as you have at least one hand)
6. Remove credit card from wallet. (Equally as easy as the steps above)
7. Enter credit card type and number. (Now this step may be difficult for some people because numbers are hard)
8. Submit payment (Congrats you figured out how numbers work! You're almost done!)
9. Log on to ESO (Can't see how you could mess this part up)
10. Enjoy those sweet new crafting bags because you just subscribed to ESO+! CONGRATULATIONS!

If this plan doesn't work to achieve convenience then I don't know what will.

Savos_Saren · May 2016

@FLuFFyxMuFFiN

You nailed it! That's just it. Why complain about something when you can have the EXACT SAME THING???

Here forum-goers... I've broken it down in a parable for you:

Bob commits to leasing a car and gets free maintenance for the time he leases it. Bob gets to go where ever he wants for the time he leases and doesn't have to pay extra for maintenance.

Steve doesn't want to commit to leasing a car- so he has to purchase a taxi cab ride every time he wants to go somewhere. He had to pay for going to the bar a month ago... but he'll have to pay for going to the bar next month, too.

Steve's mad at Bob because Bob gets the perk of free maintenance and a ride whenever he wants. But in reality... Steve could just lease a car.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · May 2016

@jaburns

It amazes me how people get upset about something that is nothing but their own fault. $15 a month is not even that much money. Im sorry but if someone can't afford that then they should spend their time worrying about other issues that not having crafting bags.

Aisle9 · May 2016

Was really going to ignore this thread, but it keeps getting up, it's way too juicy not to comment, but I'm doing so just because I feel the need to argue on the Internet(TM), not because of an actual necessity.

So ZOS found a way to lure people into subscribing...

Bad ZOS, greedy, they expect money for their work and to maintain server farms... bad!

I'm not a sub, I haven't spent a single cent in the crown store, hell, they even gave me the game for my birthday... I'm probably one of the worst customers they have, yet they allow me to play their game, which, I'm finding enjoyable. I'm currently unemployed, and, even when I wasn't, freelancing doesn't really give a steady income, so, subbing is not really an option for me, right now. Would I sub if I had a steady income? Probably not. I don't like the model, If I pay for stuff I want the stuff, so, I would probably just buy the crowns to buy the DLCs. Also, as far as money spending goes, I would prioritize booze and women, so....

That said, crafting bags for ESO+ only

I'm a master crafter, have all the skills maxed and plenty of herbs, woods, stones, runes... Is the lack of crafting bags/increased space making/going to make the game unplayable for me ?

Would I like to have it... sure I would.

Then, again, we're playing Hoarders Online, of course people want more space, but only subs are getting it...

I couldn't sleep, I woke up way too early for my brain to be functional, so, I started reading all 6 pages of this thread, but...

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And neither should you.

Subs make it so that scum like me can still enjoy the game, despite not giving money to the company to maintain it.

You gave them 20$ for a mount ? Big deal, they need 100.000$ every month just to pay the bills for the server farms. Do you know how much electricity a server consumes ? A lot.

And energy cost money. Every month.

Occasional crown store purchases don't even come close to what you might need to maintain them. Only subs, hundreds of thousands of them, make sure the game can still exist. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Granted, to understand this, you should really try to manage a server for a while, like, 6 months - 1year, then have to listen to people that give you 200$ every year saying things like "I deserve more band"... priceless.

And if you're buying crowns every month, or often enough to make you comparable to a sub, well, as many others already pointed out...

No need to reiterate...

And coffee kicked in, I realized I'm spending brain resources in actually making an argument when

There, I gave my 2cents

PS - I found the game enjoyable, so, I will buy some crowns for DLCs Soon(TM), promise

Savos_Saren · May 2016

@FLuFFyxMuFFiN

That's what I say when I go buy some beer. The cashier asks if it's "debit or credit". If I need to buy some beer on credit- I probably shouldn't be buying beer.

That's a free life lesson for all you college students out there.

Teronell · May 2016

There's some weird sunk cost stuff going on in this thread. People are having a hard time re-evaluating the value of the eso+ subscription going forward without letting past purchases creep into it.

Avidspark · May 2016

Valrien wrote: »

ESO+ needs perks. This is a perk, and it's not necessary to gameplay in any way.

This topic has been beaten to death and the majority agrees that this is perfectly fine.

This^ in a nutshell.