Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

SneaK · May 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Well I was picturing it being available to both, subscribers and buyers. I'd bet you'd also have a lot of subscribers buy it even though they're subs. Which would actually mean more subs spending their allotted crowns so more potential for said subs to buy more crowns for oh let's say, a wolf mount.

Many, many people have complained about the lack of benefits to ESO+ subscribers. Many, many people have unsubbed because they thought the benefits were not worth the cost (this very thread features numerous such anecdotes). There are now a lot of people who are resubbbing for this one benefit (again, they are posting in this thread).

ZOS found something to add to ESO+ to finally make it a compelling purchase for a lot of their customers and they will likely receive a massive windfall of subs from this one move. If you don't want to pay the price they are charging for it, that's fine, don't. However, pretending that buffing ESO+ and getting more subscriptions is not exactly the intent of the crafting bag is pretty myopic.

Not sure where I ever sounded interested in your reasoning.. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it. I am sub and I'll probably continue to be, regardless of the bag. OP isn't and I understand why he wants his bag and support his reasoning.

Well if you don't want people to try and have a conversation with you, you might try not replying to their comments

But, but! You tried to point out a flaw in my logic and I answered. You then gave me your reasoning in which shoots down the OP's, which I have already stated I'm in support of.. This topic isn't as near and dear to me to put up a fight though. You see it one way, I see it another. No problems.

Gidorick · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

nimander99 · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I'm not going to sub @nimander99 ... I'm sure there are many others who won't. What's more there will a portion of those players that give up on ESO altogether. People don't like feeling like they are being taken advantage of.

It's a shrewd business move. Smart for the company, not for their customers.

This is not a surprise, Crafting Bags and the mechanic to obtain them has been spoken of widely for several months now, we all new Crafting Bags were for ESO Plus Members... I sub to this game for a couple reasons:

1: I've played many MMORPG's and of them all this game is the best imo, it has the least aggressive cash shop, no P2W elements and ZOS has always given advance notice on what's what.

2: I do not have unreal expectations on what can be accomplished with todays tech involving MMO's, there will be bugs, expecting an MMO to be bug free just shows a lack of understanding among the community of players.

3: It's Tamriel (need I say more?)

4: I will monetarily support a game that checks off the above 3 unless they go P2W or super aggressive on the cash shop. And for me, knowing Crafting Bags are for ESO Plus members for several months now doesn't count as a deal breaker.

But I understand that you feel like you are being taken advantage of @Gidorick ... That's never a good feeling. I personally don't believe that Zenimax is taking advantage of anyone (but that's just me) and Crafting Bags is an excellent incentive to sub... honestly it's the only reason to sub.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

@Gidorick They could. And maybe at some point in the future when the luster of crafting bags has worn off and people have filled their inventories with other crap, maybe they will.

But, for now, this is the battlefield on which they've chosen to make their stand and encourage subscriptions. If it doesn't work, maybe they'll go public or crowns in the future. If it -does- work, though and subscriptions increase as a result, expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future.

My point is, though, that no matter how much inventory space they give you, there is still going to be the minority of the player base that is unhappy because they've filled it up. The only permanent solution is infinite inventory for everyone, and I think that's a little unnecessary.

nimander99 · May 2016

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I would respect them as well, but I can bet that in the future they will come with new ideas of using bank/bag space, maybe jewellery crafting, more armor that you need to fit somewhere, to the point that it might become pay to win, so certainly for now, it doesnt truly affect anyone, but they are going to keep contradicting themselves since:
- ESO is paid to play
- ESO became free to play
- ESO becomes pay to win.

Before somebody jumps, I am not saying they are pay to win now, people dont have any big advantage by having unlimited crafting bags, however they might come with extra perks in the future as to why subscribing will become necessary. They obviously cant go pay to play anymore, so they will just add things to the point that the game will be worth nothing without a subscription.

I sometimes feel as it they dont actually know what they are doing... I start to notice a trend with ZOS changing things around all the times. First with the subscription, not many people liked it, they removed it, now in a few years they will try to make people WANT to pay subscription otherwise the game will not be the same anymore, which defeats the whole purpose of going subscription free in the first place, then they make vet ranks, people dont like it, they remove vet ranks, maybe people will complain about CP system, they might change that as well... basically it just seems so unstable in a way.

Shifted of the conversation a bit, so just to clarify, I am not complaining you guys get that as a perk, on the contrary I am happy for you, because for the game quality and lag that we receive, paying monthly for it is really not worth it.

However, in a few years I might call the company either sneaky, or they dont know how to company xD.

I hear what your saying, and a game moving towards an aggressive cash shop or a P2W format is always a concern. So far I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that is on the horizon.

To your comment about ESO pay to play then buy to play then pay to win I will just say this.

Economies are not set in stone. They change as people's buying habits change and if a company wants to survive and thrive then they have to be willing to adapt to the marketplace and listen to their consumers... Which, of all the MMO's I play Zenimax does best by a huge margin, sometimes I think they listen a little too much to the community.

Tavore1138 · May 2016

t

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. thats all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1. No they promised not to make it harder and not to adjust it that way and they have not, if you do not sub then your inventory options will be exactly the same after DB drops as they are today and have been all through the games life. Subscribers will certainly find life more vonvenient but non subscribers will not lose anything real - this is purely a psychological loss to you, you arvecperiencing bag envy.
2. Honestly do not know enough about these specific platform issues to comment.
3. A predictable revenue stream is very good for a company and allows them to make plans without having to guess how many of us will buy the latest senche reskin. If bags get people to pay their pretty low monthly sub then it could boost the game. If not then I would ecpect a very expensive crown item to add bags in 6-9 months.
4. As someone who has studied evonomics and worked in marketing I can say you are mistaken - steady revenue streams allow companies to make forward plans. It is why firms will make a big deal about their forward order books when announcing results to the markets and why firms who can point at solid future revenue are also solid investments.
5. Why June 20th?

Gidorick · May 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I'm not going to sub @nimander99 ... I'm sure there are many others who won't. What's more there will a portion of those players that give up on ESO altogether. People don't like feeling like they are being taken advantage of.

It's a shrewd business move. Smart for the company, not for their customers.

This is not a surprise, Crafting Bags and the mechanic to obtain them has been spoken of widely for several months now, we all new Crafting Bags were for ESO Plus Members... I sub to this game for a couple reasons:

1: I've played many MMORPG's and of them all this game is the best imo, it has the least aggressive cash shop, no P2W elements and ZOS has always given advance notice on what's what.

2: I do not have unreal expectations on what can be accomplished with todays tech involving MMO's, there will be bugs, expecting an MMO to be bug free just shows a lack of understanding among the community of players.

3: It's Tamriel (need I say more?)

4: I will monetarily support a game that checks off the above 3 unless they go P2W or super aggressive on the cash shop. And for me, knowing Crafting Bags are for ESO Plus members for several months now doesn't count as a deal breaker.

But I understand that you feel like you are being taken advantage of @Gidorick ... That's never a good feeling. I personally don't believe that Zenimax is taking advantage of anyone (but that's just me) and Crafting Bags is an excellent incentive to sub... honestly it's the only reason to sub.

I think that is fair @nimander99 , and the point about unrealistic expectations hits my home especially hard.

If I had stayed subbed all this time and not switched, and subsequently learned to enjoy, the Buy2Play model... I wouldn't have the perspective I have now. I'd be more... "Yea... that kind of sucks for non subscribers, and they should do something for you guys, but at least we're getting SOME fix to inventories. It's better than nothing, right?"

My other point of contention is that if I ever sub, I might feel like I CAN'T unsub, lest I'd loose the ability to add to the bag.

I said I wasn't going to sub, didn't I... I need to alter that statement. I don't PLAN to sub for a long period of time. I MIGHT sub for a month, dump all my materials into the bag, then unsub.... I haven't decided if I'm going to do that or not.

newtinmpls · May 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

Okay, I just want to clear up the difference between being loyal/dedicated and being an ESO+ member. Its really simple, you are not a "loyal" and thus so entitled to this craft bag simply because you have an active ESO+ subscription. If this was to reward loyal subscribers, it would be given to those whom ZOS considers loyal

I agree totally.

So does ZoS.

However you are not using the same definition of "loyal" as ZoS is.

nimander99 · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I'm not going to sub @nimander99 ... I'm sure there are many others who won't. What's more there will a portion of those players that give up on ESO altogether. People don't like feeling like they are being taken advantage of.

It's a shrewd business move. Smart for the company, not for their customers.

This is not a surprise, Crafting Bags and the mechanic to obtain them has been spoken of widely for several months now, we all new Crafting Bags were for ESO Plus Members... I sub to this game for a couple reasons:

1: I've played many MMORPG's and of them all this game is the best imo, it has the least aggressive cash shop, no P2W elements and ZOS has always given advance notice on what's what.

2: I do not have unreal expectations on what can be accomplished with todays tech involving MMO's, there will be bugs, expecting an MMO to be bug free just shows a lack of understanding among the community of players.

3: It's Tamriel (need I say more?)

4: I will monetarily support a game that checks off the above 3 unless they go P2W or super aggressive on the cash shop. And for me, knowing Crafting Bags are for ESO Plus members for several months now doesn't count as a deal breaker.

But I understand that you feel like you are being taken advantage of @Gidorick ... That's never a good feeling. I personally don't believe that Zenimax is taking advantage of anyone (but that's just me) and Crafting Bags is an excellent incentive to sub... honestly it's the only reason to sub.

I think that is fair @nimander99 , and the point about unrealistic expectations hits my home especially hard.

If I had stayed subbed all this time and not switched, and subsequently learned to enjoy, the Buy2Play model... I wouldn't have the perspective I have now. I'd be more... "Yea... that kind of sucks for non subscribers, and they should do something for you guys, but at least we're getting SOME fix to inventories. It's better than nothing, right?"

My other point of contention is that if I ever sub, I might feel like I CAN'T unsub, lest I'd loose the ability to add to the bag.

I said I wasn't going to sub, didn't I... I need to alter that statement. I don't PLAN to sub for a long period of time. I MIGHT sub for a month, dump all my materials into the bag, then unsub.... I haven't decided if I'm going to do that or not.

Yeah, I suggested that in the Poll about Crafting Bags, sub for a month and just Mat dump everything you can then unsub.

CherryCake · May 2016

@nimander99 I get that, this is why I dont truly care for it to be honest, I want to just enjoy playing, and I am also not one of the people that want to be the best in a game, but I can also understand why it gets annoying for some to get accustomed to something and then change things around because the company realizes that plan didnt work. But from an mmo you can expect nothing else. I also put a lot of money in this game for buying crowns, I am not saying that I should receive the bag as well, nor am I saying that those that pay monthly for the game are more loyal or that those that buy the dlcs with crowns dont support the game and do it out of a "selfish" reason either, since those that pay subscription also receive crowns, which later they can use to buy the dlcs and have them forever like the rest of us, but what saddens me is how people immediately call those that buy crowns out for not "supporting" the game. You can cancel your subscription at any time, it is not something for a life time either, just as you can keep buying crowns for the amount of a yearly subscription every year.

Gidorick · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

@Gidorick They could. And maybe at some point in the future when the luster of crafting bags has worn off and people have filled their inventories with other crap, maybe they will.

But, for now, this is the battlefield on which they've chosen to make their stand and encourage subscriptions. If it doesn't work, maybe they'll go public or crowns in the future. If it -does- work, though and subscriptions increase as a result, expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future.

My point is, though, that no matter how much inventory space they give you, there is still going to be the minority of the player base that is unhappy because they've filled it up. The only permanent solution is infinite inventory for everyone, and I think that's a little unnecessary.

I think that's fair @ShedsHisTail ... I think that at some point in the future there will be SOME alternative, for now though, it sucks for those of us who have been paying for each DLC since they switched the models.

And I'm totally one of those "will fill up inventory". I can't tell you how many trips I've made from dungeons to merchant in previous TES games carrying junk to sell for a bit of gold. I do the same in ESO. I can't a potentially helpful or sellable item behind!

daemonios · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

This I can agree with. There are inconsistencies with the current inventory management whose resolution would benefit all players alike. Examples:

- Potions stacking to 100. Why not 200 like all other stacks?
- Siege gear not stacking at all. Seriously, what does ZOS gain from making siege gear unstackable? Does having players constantly run to siege merchants count as "content" in any way?
- Surveys and maps not stacking at all. Seriously, I don't think anyone runs to dig up a treasure chest or harvest some survey nodes the minute they get the map/survey. This results in dozens of inventory slots taken up by unopened writ rewards containing duplicate surveys, or people mailing treasure maps to friends so they can pick up a duplicate that randomly dropped. There is no point whatsoever to making these items not stack.
- Glyphs not stacking. Again, why do two white Truly Superb Glyphs of Magicka not stack? This is one of the things that fills your bags lightning fast when out farming mobs. They are consumables. You apply them to your gear, just like repair kits, which oddly do stack. Please make glyphs stack.

Rex-Umbra · May 2016

Agree with OP, pretty lame for us that have bought all the DLCs. Should be included with ESO + or able to be purchased for 5k plus crowns.

yodased · May 2016

BrotherChaz wrote: »

eso+ does have perks. you get all expansions free.. pluss experience boons etc. and free crowns.

Well paying 15 bucks a month for those free things makes them a bit less free, more like included.

There is literally one thing making eso+ different than any other payment system and that is the crafting bag.

Sucks that's the one thing you don't have, but can you not understand why forced scarcity is a valid marketing system?

nimander99 · May 2016

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

@nimander99 I get that, this is why I dont truly care for it to be honest, I want to just enjoy playing, and I am also not one of the people that want to be the best in a game, but I can also understand why it gets annoying for some to get accustomed to something and then change things around because the company realizes that plan didnt work. But from an mmo you can expect nothing else. I also put a lot of money in this game for buying crowns, I am not saying that I should receive the bag as well, nor am I saying that those that pay monthly for the game are more loyal or that those that buy the dlcs with crowns dont support the game and do it out of a "selfish" reason either, since those that pay subscription also receive crowns, which later they can use to buy the dlcs and have them forever like the rest of us, but what saddens me is how people immediately call those that buy crowns out for not "supporting" the game. You can cancel your subscription at any time, it is not something for a life time either, just as you can keep buying crowns for the amount of a yearly subscription every year.

Yeah, its pure nonsense to tell someone who's buying Crowns that they aren't supporting the game... That's just ignorance. Zenimax made this game with the intention of it remaining a sub model, unfortunately markets change and companies have to adapt accordingly (and quick) or they will fail, see Wildstar for an example, great game just took to long to change models... that could've been ESO, thank the Eight it wasn't!

I'll close with this. I shop at the same few stores all the time and never once have been pulled aside by a manager who said to me "Nimander, you shop here all the time, here's a bunch of free stuff for your loyalty"... maybe it happens, but not in my experience.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · May 2016

its really not that bad. you have managed this far so obviously if you choose not to get it you can manage, and still have a huge improvement.

personally i dont use +, except for the month a dlc comes out i get one month and play the dlc, otherwise i pvp. the bag system is still great, everything goes in there when i get + and when its gone i can still use bag system just not put things in. which is fine to me i have so much of everything i only farm a few items; so i will have 100's of slots back. then in 3 months or so when i get + agian i can stick the stuff i farmed in the craft bag. so overall I will have a lot more space.

If i can play this game for 2+ years with no craft bags and still level every craft and hold plenty of essential materials then so can anyone. I disagree with the premise that its not fair.

MasterSpatula · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

As a B2P customer who already owns all of the dlcs etc it wouldn't be worth it for me to sub, they'd all have been a waste of money if I subbed now so my decision is just to not purchase anything else from zo$ or support the development of game further, if B2P customers aren't wanted or needed anymore then they don't need any more of my cash.

This is pretty much how most of us feel @Tommy1979AtWar ... If ZOS was going to make subs pretty much a must a year after the B2P transition they should have just stuck with subs. It's shady and it's manipulative.

Horse poo. More likely explanation was that they didn't think of it. "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." In this case, the incompetence would have been not thinking of a way to keep subs sooner.

They need more subs for more a more reliable income stream. They didn't initially create a good enough incentive to sub. They came up with one. It's really that simple, and this desire to see dishonesty and greed is nothing but a persecution complex.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

Just sub if you want the bags.

Buying the DLC outright is cheaper than subbing would have been since they have been releasing DLC. You haven't lost anything if you sub going forward to get the bags. You might feel like you wasted money buying the DLC, but you haven't -- assuming you were smart and bought crowns at good rates. And if you ever decide to not bother with the sub for a bit, you still have access to the DLC you bought.

waterfairy · May 2016

As someone who doesn't sub yet has paid $60 for the game and $25 for Orsinium, I'm completely ok with this being an ESO+ benefit. I also have a hard time balancing bank and inventory space yet I'm still ok with this being a sub perk.

If anything, it would be cool if they put a "crafting pouch" up for sale which could be a lesser version of the bag, maybe holding just a stack of each material or something along those lines.

Loralai_907 · May 2016

I'm sorry that some of you are so upset abut the way ZOS decided to handle this. I personally like crafting bags a a perk for ESO+ members. That being said, I'm sure most of us have been there for other reasons. Like when they decided to go B2P, there was an uproar about that. Every time a new DLC comes out, it comes with a new FOTM, that causes issues too. Where is spellcrafting? What about the part of the Justice system that was thrown in the trash? Do I really need to go on?

Do I think crafting bags will always be exclusive to ESO+ members? No freaking way. It might be different than what we have, but everyone else will get to buy some version of one eventually. Just chill. OM a little bit. I'm not saying don't talk about it, keep insisting you want it, and it will end up in the crown store eventually. Just don't flip out about it is all, cuz there is no way you won't get one at some point.

CherryCake · May 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

I'll close with this. I shop at the same few stores all the time and never once have been pulled aside by a manager who said to me "Nimander, you shop here all the time, here's a bunch of free stuff for your loyalty"... maybe it happens, but not in my experience.

That happened to me with the pizza delivery people =D But ESO isnt pizza ;___; (also btw, I agree with you, for me the game being free to play is already all that matters, so what if I get killed by nightblades all the time... ;___; its not like I cry when it happens........)

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

@Gidorick They could. And maybe at some point in the future when the luster of crafting bags has worn off and people have filled their inventories with other crap, maybe they will.

But, for now, this is the battlefield on which they've chosen to make their stand and encourage subscriptions. If it doesn't work, maybe they'll go public or crowns in the future. If it -does- work, though and subscriptions increase as a result, expect to see more of this kind of thing in the future.

My point is, though, that no matter how much inventory space they give you, there is still going to be the minority of the player base that is unhappy because they've filled it up. The only permanent solution is infinite inventory for everyone, and I think that's a little unnecessary.

I think that's fair @ShedsHisTail ... I think that at some point in the future there will be SOME alternative, for now though, it sucks for those of us who have been paying for each DLC since they switched the models.

And I'm totally one of those "will fill up inventory". I can't tell you how many trips I've made from dungeons to merchant in previous TES games carrying junk to sell for a bit of gold. I do the same in ESO. I can't a potentially helpful or sellable item behind!

@Gidorick sounds like your problem could be largely conquered by purchasing the Merchant Assistant.

MasterSpatula · May 2016

daemonios wrote: »

- Siege gear not stacking at all. Seriously, what does ZOS gain from making siege gear unstackable? Does having players constantly run to siege merchants count as "content" in any way?
[snip]
- Glyphs not stacking. Again, why do two white Truly Superb Glyphs of Magicka not stack? This is one of the things that fills your bags lightning fast when out farming mobs. They are consumables. You apply them to your gear, just like repair kits, which oddly do stack. Please make glyphs stack.

I can't speak for the other items you mentioned, but it's likely that anything that has a durability stat can't stack in the system they've created.

It's also likely anything with a "created by" tag won't stack. Though, now that I've typed that, I see you're probably talking about looted glyphs, so never mind, I agree with you.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Reevster wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

First of all this post is not intended for ESO+ customers, you have no worries... Also please note: Where I use all caps for some words it is not intended as shouting. It is for EMPHASIS only to make a point. No offense is intended. I hope that this opinion post will not be a source of flaming posts... I just had to say something about a topic I feel strongly about.

But for those of us who have spent a serious ammount of real $$$ on buying the game, all add-on world expansions, mounts, costumes, personal banker, etc. etc.. This needs to be an option available to us also.

The crafting resource bags being available to JUST eso+ people is wrong.
Im sorry but This is a major item(fundumental even) that ALL CHARACTERS need, especially with NEW CRAFTING SYSTEMS/ITEMS being added with the new expansion.

I love the game but this is JUST Wrong. Having to get eso+ JUST to get CRAFTING BAGS feels a little bit like a slap in the face to those like me wh who have spent WAY in excess of the ammount that getting eso+ would have been ... I still have additional items (personal Merchant, New Assasins expansion etc.) I had planned to buy right away...

Sadly despite all the upcoming changes, which I have no problem with, this one most necessary item not being available to ALL LOYAL customers just does not seem right. I love the game but this one thing... well it just is not right.

I can not justify buying more at this point .. please keep in mind I have no problem with eso+ people getting it for free with subscription... My point is that those who have supported the game by purchasing everything up to this point should be allowed to get the much needed option also. Sell it as an option I would buy it even if it were 2000 crowns or whatever.

Sorry it was so long... I just had to say something. I hope this oversight(in my opinion) gets resolved. I hate it when a favorite game becomes less fun because of what the company does to its structure. Its my greatest hope this will not be the case here.

For those who want to say "Well just get eso+" I have to reply: think about it... After buying ALL the addons it just isnt fair to then FEEL FORCED to go mwith eso+ just for craft bags. What about all that money spent on the expansions? Would we be entitled to a refund since these purchased items are now included free? No there needs to be some fair mindedness and common sence applied here.

Thanks for listening. Please no flamers. I just had to get this out. Peace.

Why spend so much money when all you need to do is Sub, its like $180 a year and you get like $130 worth of Crowns, so for $50 a year you can have most of what you have paid "big" money for.

I just dont get why people buy buy buy from from the crown store but refuse to Sub.... must have money to burn i guess,

See my above post @Reevster ... I unsubed out of principal. ZOS said they wanted to go Buy2Play, I disagreed. I loved ESO being a sub based game. When they announced the ESO+ benefits I thought they were a joke... so I followed ZOS' lead and I unsubed and have bought DLC ever since. I have bought all the collectors editions of the DLC and I have enjoyed those colletions. At this point I actually prefer buying the collecctors editions over just getting base access for subscribing.

Now ZOS is forcing me to make a choice: I have to subscribe and not get collectors editions, not subscribe and have to struggle with my inventory, or waste money by subscribing AND buying the collectors edition?

ZOS forcing me to make one of those choices is asinine... and manipulative.

"Out of principle" often sounds like being a sore loser.

I didn't sub because is did not make $ sense. I got 11000 crowns on sale for $48 and used those to buy DLC. That meant I didn't buy IC when it was released, but I didn't really PvP at that point and it wasn't a problem for me. After buying the 3 DLC and also having 1500 that ZOS gave me when ESOTU launched, I still have 4500 left. I save a ton by not subbing.

Even if I were to sub for the crafting bags and the 4500 crowns (plus the sub crowns) became useless to me, I would have saved a lot of money by not subbing since ESOTU launched. Assuming someone payed full price for 5500 crowns for IC and then bought their 5500 for the other DLC for $24 during a sale, they would have saved a lot of money.

While I love the game, I am looking for an excuse to play less. My justification will be the crafting bags. I will sub for 1 month upon each DLC drop. That will get me the crafting bags. I will then not have a sub for 2 months until the next DLC drops. Since I will be accumulating crowns, I might buy the bank assistant since it seems the only item of value in the crown store apart from repair kits. I have zero interest in any vanity items and I don't want to buy motifs when I would rather acquire them in game for a sense of accomplishment. The only reason I get motifs is appease the completionist in me anyway since I don't care what my armor looks like and I would rather sell the mats used to craft the fancy-pants motifs.

Dragonking06 · May 2016

Personally I have no problems with eso+ members getting crafting bags and non-members not. I've been here since the day the game went over to B2P because that's the more affordable option to me. If I want something I'll get a few crowns and buy it. And I have considered getting eso+, but it always felt like: "Aside from a few crowns per month and a exp boost, plus access to DLC's (Provided I have the subscription still) what's the point?".

Eso+ really DID need something extra to make it more tempting to buy into... Yes. I would love to have crafting bags. Am I going to buy into it? No. Sad day for me then. But I'll manage as I always have, and if eso+ gets something I simply cannot say no to, I might consider signing up, that's just the way of things. Till then I'll keep buying DLCs and enjoying the game the way I have been since I got here.

Gidorick · May 2016

daemonios wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Yeah, and ZOS doubled stack sizes and took collections and pets and costumes out of inventories entirely. But there's a certain demographic which will always fill up whatever space they have.

I give it six months after the crafting bags are released that we start seeing threads about being able to put more than just mats in the bags because inventories are full of potions and gear and siege equipment and maps or whatever it is pack rats insist on carrying around forever.

Some of those changes went a long way to solving the issues @ShedsHisTail , but ZOS really should have (and still could ) consider an inventory design that will appease those players while also making them a hefty profit.

Include ESO+ options, sure... but there should also be alternative solutions that benefit ALL players (ESO+ and non ESO+)

This I can agree with. There are inconsistencies with the current inventory management whose resolution would benefit all players alike. Examples:

- Potions stacking to 100. Why not 200 like all other stacks?
- Siege gear not stacking at all. Seriously, what does ZOS gain from making siege gear unstackable? Does having players constantly run to siege merchants count as "content" in any way?
- Surveys and maps not stacking at all. Seriously, I don't think anyone runs to dig up a treasure chest or harvest some survey nodes the minute they get the map/survey. This results in dozens of inventory slots taken up by unopened writ rewards containing duplicate surveys, or people mailing treasure maps to friends so they can pick up a duplicate that randomly dropped. There is no point whatsoever to making these items not stack.
- Glyphs not stacking. Again, why do two white Truly Superb Glyphs of Magicka not stack? This is one of the things that fills your bags lightning fast when out farming mobs. They are consumables. You apply them to your gear, just like repair kits, which oddly do stack. Please make glyphs stack.

Personally @ShedsHisTail , I want inventory bag items that take up one space that open up to different sizes. That way, if I want to pay 2K crowns and get a bag worth, I dunno... 30 spaces, I can. I would even like to buy from the crown store a crafting bag for ONE craft that takes up one inventory space but has enough space for all crafting material in the craft... so blacksmithing would only be able to accept blacksmithing mats etc...

It would still function differently than what ESO+ members are getting and ESO+ members could still benefit from the bags. Heck, I'd be fine with just the bags.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Polls on this forum doesn't accurately depict the majority of players. Just the majority who come to the forums which is not indicative of the game population.

Other than that I have no more issue with it being ESOplus as I will sub for a month (cancelling immediately afterwards), dump 6 maxed mules plus my guild bank into the bag, farm mats for 30 days and be done with it.

Agreed. I'm planning on subbing 1 month on each DLC drop. I don't need access year round and I don't need to play all the time.

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2016

I sub AND buy Crowns. You got what you bought. When ESO + members bought into the perks. You bought those Crowns with the explicit intent to purchase items from the store. ZOS is now deciding to improve the perks so that they appeal to a wider base.

I dont see Non-Subbers demanding the extra XP, the extra gold, reduced research time. Of course not. Because all of those things arent worth subbing for from your perspective. But here we are with something you do want. And instead of wanting to sub for it. You want a lump sum purchase of it available to not only benefit from continuing to purchase freely when you please but to also undermine the appeal of the subscription. Screw Subbers amirite?

daemonios · May 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

- Siege gear not stacking at all. Seriously, what does ZOS gain from making siege gear unstackable? Does having players constantly run to siege merchants count as "content" in any way?
[snip]
- Glyphs not stacking. Again, why do two white Truly Superb Glyphs of Magicka not stack? This is one of the things that fills your bags lightning fast when out farming mobs. They are consumables. You apply them to your gear, just like repair kits, which oddly do stack. Please make glyphs stack.

I can't speak for the other items you mentioned, but it's likely that anything that has a durability stat can't stack in the system they've created.

It's also likely anything with a "created by" tag won't stack. Though, now that I've typed that, I see you're probably talking about looted glyphs, so never mind, I agree with you.

Hadn't thought about the durability, but thinking about it for 10 seconds I've come up with a solution. Global stack durability. Say you have 10 fresh ballistas. Stack has a global durability of 10. Take 1 out, stack has a durability of 9 and the one you used has 1. If you wear it down to 50% and take it back into your bag, the stack now has a value of 10 items and a durability of 9.5. Take out 3 of them out and wear them down to, say, 30%, 50% and 10%. If you pick them up again you have a stack of 8 with global durability 7.4. It's not exactly the same thing as 10 individual sieges each with its own durability, but it's pretty close and it solves stacking.