No reason to get aggressive zheg. You didn't start the thread and while you're entitled to your opinion, why must you feel the need to shoot down the thread just because YOU don't like the topic? I continue to read all the "nerf" RD threads, and I don't like them. Regardless of if she came out and admitted poor testing, obviously the community other than a few did NOT get the memo, cause they continue to link that video. So..nothing contribute? Then read and move along, posting your "*** this thread" nonsense has nothing to do with the topic...so...leave

troll bait

Zheg wrote: »

I'd actually be ok with the range dropping to 27, just below the passive that extends it, just above the gap closer range.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Oh yay, I love this subject!

via Imgflip Meme Maker

WELL SAID HYZIR! I mean...im amagic build, somtomes I get killed by RD...i don't mind, I mean it sucks, but I am also a vampire, and there's a certain Stamina NB build that kills me before I can react, and I have 26k health and 20k phys resist! I don't complain...my bane happens to be stamina NB. As you said everyone has a counter. Reason I created the post was to get positive feedback on the role of RD, and were getting it! Thanks guys.

Ampnode wrote: »

Obviously the ones casting it in the back of groups chasing one guy down aren't going to be bothered by it

No more than the people spamming snipe at the back of groups... Zeesh... Backline beamers are no different from any other ranged glass cannon build standing behind a meat wall. And radiant is not the optimal skill for that role anyway.

I know math is hard, so I am patient with people spouting nonsense, but enough is enough. There are actual issues with the game, and Radiant is not one of them, and it is pointless to keep flooding the forums with non-factual threads about it based purely on how something feels. Anyone who bothers to check the actual math behind the skill, the actual damage it puts out, the actual time it takes to deal that damage, realizes that it is well within the established parameters for dealing damage in this game. It hits hard, but not overly so, and being a channel it has an edge in certain situations and against certain builds, but also has it's fair share of drawbacks.

Personally, I would ditch radiant in an instant for something that just gave me an instant attack that hit for 10k and did nothing else. No debuffs to the target, no CC applied, no buffs given to the caster, no execute bonuses whatsoever. Just a simple attack that hit hard and that was all. I would be able to execute tons more with that, than I can with Radiant, since I could then weave it with destro light/heavy attacks and still retain my mobility.

The thing about radiant is that it is slow, and it slows the caster down too, and it is slow to activate, and in lag it takes so long for the damn thing to activate that the target that you spotted in execute range has already healed back to full when the damn beam finally decides to strike.

Using it 24/7 like the "nerf radiant!" crowd insists people are doing, is a massive DPS loss and would root you down to a permanent crawl. I get better DPS just spamming heavy attacks with destro staff. If you are being hit by a Radiant when you are not in execute range it is because of 4 things:

1 - The attack was delayed by lag or the inherent unresponsiveness of the skill, and the actual attack was initiated when you were at 50% or less but you managed to heal yourself back to 100% while the games was fiddling its thumbs wondering whether or not it should actually do something or not. Or you were not the actual target of the attack, the target was the dude standing next to you who is in execute range, but the game decided to target you instead.

2. - It is the only ranged skill available to the Templar at the moment, and crappy DPS is still better than no DPS. For example, my Magplar has three ranged skills slotted. One of them is Entropy which only exists to give Major Sorcery - what ever damage it does is incidental. The other is Meteor, and trust me, If I can drop a Meteor on you instead of Radiant, I will drop a Meteor on you. So unless I am running destro staff on my back bar isntead of Sword and board, then Radiant it is. If I am in my zerg surfing ensemble and have a destro staff equipped, then destro staff will always trump Radiant. Except when you are in execute range or number 3 of this list happens...

3. - Radiant is the only Dawns wrath skill slotted on the Templar, and thus the only way to get any benefits from the Templar passive that gives you, and people around you, Minor Sorcery buff when you activate a Dawn's wrath skill. And while it is only a +5% buff, it is still a frigging +5% buff! Obviously I am gonna do my best to keep it up all the time. And this means I need to cast at least 1 radiant every 17 seconds or so. Quite often at the start of an engagement, I start with Entropy, then do a Radiant and cut it short with a block move, and then start to do actual attacks with both Sorcery buffs up. It's expensive as hell Magicka wise, but this game is all about maximum burst damage, so it's still worth it.

4. - The players is a noob, no doubt full of silly ideas about insta kill nature of Radiant fueled by the complete and utter nonsense people post on the Forums. If radiant was as powerful as people keep claiming, everyone would be playing a Templar. But that is not the case.

And for what it's worth, while I like big battles and thus tend to be around other players, I do not spam radiant from the backs of groups, since I actually like to earn some AP while playing,. Backline sniping gives paltry AP in comparison to being in the front line spamming attacks that keep up consistent DPS. And in that environment Radiant has three uses and that's it - 1. Execute people, 2. - keep up minor sorcery buff and 3. - Finish of fleeing dodge rollers.

Nearly all of the whining about radiant comes from three sources -1. - Dodge rollers being annoyed that they can't dodge roll their wa yout of everything. 2.- People who do not understand the mechanics of the game and just see ridiculously high numbers on the crappy death recap screen. 3. - The psychological factor that comes form the obvious nature of Radiant. With other hard hitting skills you just die, instantly. It's just some random *** that happens and then move on. But with radiant, your death becomes a long protracted affair, one where you desperately try to stave of the inevitable, in a futile battle where you are doomed to fail. Or so it at least feels to you.

A lot of people keep complaining how 3 Templars all grilling you with radiant is totally overpowered. But if those three were stamina players spamming snipe,, you would die a lot faster. The thing about radiant is that it is slow. It also kills you slowly and gives you a lot of time to become fully aware of how screwed you are. Where as getting hit by three snipes just means bam you died. End of story. With radiant... yeah you have ample time to formulate the though "Yup. I am so gonna die."

If you still think that Templar is so OP with Radiant, then roll up a Templar and try it out yourself. You will be unpleasantly surprised. Also note that even though a new nerf radiant thread pops up every two or three days, it's always the same crowd posting in it and alwasy saying the same things, and ZOS generally ignores those threads. This is because they checked the math behind the skill after Thieves Guild launched and it became non-dodgeable once more, and most magicka builds got better benefits from the champ system thus increasing their DPS. They checked the numbers and concluded that it is withing the parameters and it's damage output is comparable to other hard hitting skills. So the story of this all is, that there is no story here.

And with that I have said all I have to said about it. There is no point discussing this thing any further unless something else changes in the game that affects magicka builds or channeling. Unless you have something new to bring to the table the case of Radiant is done and dealt with. Just rehashing the same old arguments every few days is not meaningful debate, its baseless whining, and I am tired of it cluttering the forums all the time.

Ampnode wrote: »

I'd leave something constructive like I have before in the past, but why bother?

Because if you truly believe that there is a problem with the skill, then you need keep arguing it. And you need to try to frame it in a fresh perspective and back your claims with solid data.If you just post snippy remarks and belittle anyone who disagrees with you, then that will take any credence from your stance. If you treat the issue as a joke, then why would anyone take your claims seriously?

After about 2 months of these threads/posts you kind of have to treat it as a joke, and the only joke about it is people defending it. There's nothing else to yield that's different, because again it's nothing but a joke at this point. I came out with a joke and you write me an essay in a very serious manner. I skimmed through it and wasn't impressed; nor was a convinced.

The same can be said about people who keep attacking it:"After about 2 months of these threads/posts you kind of have to treat it as a joke, and the only joke about it is people attacking it." You made your case, the powers that be stated that it is withing their vision, and all examples of its OP:ness crumbled under scrutiny. The number of Templars has remained fairly consistent in Cyrodiil, and Beamplar most certainly has not become FotM build after Thieves Guild.

People who think Radiant is OP made their case, ZOS took a gander at it and told everyone that "No, we think its okay. Its performing the way we want." And that's it. You can keep stating the same claims over and over, but what makes you think ZOS is going to change their mind about it? Unless the tactic here is to keep whining about it until they give up? Especially when these claims are backed by made up numbers.

It is perfectly fine to disagree with those assessments. But saying that it's a joke, and that you can't be bothered to make serious posts about it, and instead making snarky remarks in threads discussing it, and then ridiculing everyone who disagrees with you, makes you look like someone throwing a temper tantrum because the wider world did not follow you preferences.

Well thats the gist of what I wanted to say I suppose, but I will try to answer some of the remarks you made that come of more or less as questions directed at me..

Yeah, I talked about "classes begging to keep their ridiculous abilities." How's that funny? Oh, because you're a templar and took offense to it?

Basic communication dude... You post in a thread about templar abilities. Make fun of those who do not think that it's OP and then launch into a rant about how such people are zerglings and are destroying the game. Go back and read what you wrote. The language is clearly framed in a targeted format, and the target available in this context, in this thread, are people who disagree with you on Radiant, who by your statements can only be Templars. It just wasn't very constructive thing to say.

I've seen templars say they that should keep this ability because every other class has an OP ability, and it shouldn't be like that.

I've seen those comments too, and they make me cringe. They are such badly formed arguments. What people who post such comments are trying to say, is that every class has strong skills. They aren't defending OP skills, just noting that other classes have cool stuff too, which they would really like to have but don't. Radiant is a signature move of Templars. it's one of the cool things about templar. And yes, it is different and does require different tactics to handle. But that is the way the devs want this game to be.

Because those abilities have a solid counter in a 1v1 AND 1vX situation. Roll dodge is a defense mechanic. To have it so easily countered by an execute is horrible design. The ability does nothing but give templars a reason to say 'l2p' and players the lack of interest to solo PvP.

Ah... sounds like you are roll dodger... if that is the case, then learn to accept that ZOS doesn't want roll dodge to be a defense against everything. And Radiant has tons of solid counters., it's just that dodge rolling is not one of them.

Couldn't care less how many times a list of counters to the ability is posted. They either require me to jump into the zerg I'm running away from to interrupt or have me change my entire build just to counter one ability.

Which is really the rub here isn't it. I have to make concessions to my build to be able to deal with all the different things in the game. I have to slot Magelight on both of my bars just so that I wont get insta ganked by a Nightblade. I run a purge, a shield, a heal, an armor buff and even shuffle even though I am magicka build, just to stay alive and to have the tools necessary to deal with all the stuff I meet on the battlefield.

It would be really nice if I didn't have to sacrifice so much for those defensive capabilities, but it is a choice I made. I'd rather not die than get one more kill. But some people want to get as much kills as possible and thus they leave openings in their defenses. (I never understood the lure of playing as someone who runs into enemy formations trying to kill as many as possible before being themselves cut down. But hey. to each their own right?) And it sounds like Radiant, and channeling in general, is the weakness in your build. But that truly is on you. Radiant is not an issue for my build nor for the builds of lots of others.

And saying that you do not want to modify your build in order to defend against it makes you sound... well I do not mean to offend here, but it does sound tad childish, don't you think? You're basically saying that you'd much rather have the the game changed to suit your build.

Whether you like it or not, this game is designed so that you need to be able to cope with several different things. And you can't handle everything with just one solution. Just because you don't want to make any concessions about your build, does not mean that others have not. I have, and know many who have done the same. We are not bothered by radiant any more than we are by any other strong ability in the game.

But yeah- that's it for me. If I came across as singling you out I do apologies. Several weeks worth of reading non-factual whining about Radiant just reached a critical level tonight and I felt I needed to say my piece on it. Which I have. We can continue discussing this but I do not think it will lead anywhere. You said you skimmed my arguments and were not convinced by them - okay I can live with that. It's okay to disagree, nor do we really need to get to any kind of consensus about the topic either. Ultimately what we think is irrelevant, it is up to ZOS to decide what to do with the skill. All we can do is to make our case as best as we can, and back them up with data.

Ampnode wrote: »

I'd rather not read that entire text wall, so I'll just take my back since it triggered something. Anyway, no coincidence that the players who're at least half decent point this out. Who are the ones that defend it? Oh, the templars/players that run in groups of 12+ where they're nice 'n' safe.

Enjoy ruining whats left of any decent PvP. A great chunk of the population has already quit and/or is planning on it. Take the lag, ZERGs, and the classes begging to keep their ridiculous abilities and the game is nothing but a toxic environment to be in. Just only wish that people would not be so biased and play more than one class, or step out of their 12+ man group. By doing so you wake up, see things from another perspective, and realize why complaints exist.

I'm trying to muster up a big boo-freaking-hoo, but your whinefest is just not inspiring enough, sorry.

Reduce RD range to 15 m like many of ppls alrdy said - problem solved.

Ryuho wrote: »

Reduce RD range to 15 m like many of ppls alrdy said - problem solved.

The fact that it is a 3 second channel combined with the fact that Templars have 0 mobility in their class make this a bad idea. No, problem not solved for anyone except the people needlessly crying about it.

"Remove it from the game! Problem fixed!"

See what I did there?

Don't waste your breath on them @Baconlad. It's nowhere near as OP as any stamina build next patch. Whats worse, a 3 second channel execute or being killed during the unbreakable animation of Fear even with Annulment up?

Just change the range so it can potentially be gap closed and bash interrupted.

Thanks for the thread and your opinion on the matter.

Jules wrote: »

Just change the range so it can potentially be gap closed and bash interrupted.

Thanks for the thread and your opinion on the matter.

Sorry you died to RD, but that's a terrible idea, and it's not going to happen.