Request for Empowering Sweep

Cinbri · May 2016

Requesting to change 15%+[4% for caped target mitigation(6*4%=24%)] for 10 sec to flat 30% mitigation for 10 sec.
__________________________________________________________________
1. It is class spammable ultimate, i.e. most cheapest in templar's arsenal, but yet only ult (and morph) that suffering from scaling:

a. DK alternative - Ferocious Leap: doesn't have scaling and apply damage shield based only on your own health pool.
b. Sorc alternative - Overload: also doesn't have scaling and morphs affecting only ultimate itself.
c. NB alternative - Death Stroke: also doesn't have scaling, applying unscaled debuffs and Incapacitating Strike stun based on caster healt pools, granting more defensive option was revamped to always stun target, i.e. effect that scaled from health pool previously was made an instant.
d. Crescent Sweep - morph that don't have scaling too, ability to hit harder is not something important as majority of enemies you "face" are stanidng in front of you anyway. And DoT doesn't have bonus damage.

2. Even with increased radius it hit for small damage and have another problems -

a. despite it is AoE it still dodgeable, it can be dodged even by someone who stand just 0.1 meters away from you and used roll-dodge.
b. Working on some weird altitude axis it is still can miss targets in its radius.

Majority of time coz of those problems it doesn't even apply half of scaling bonus.
3. It has low utility in duels - if you will be lucky not to miss this ultimate - you still will have only: low damage, low DoT, and with luck 19% mitigation.
4. It has low ultility for stamplars - Empowering Sweep as said above can apply(with luck) only 19% mitigation, and stamplars will deal very low damage and will aply very low DoT. In comparison: DK leap still very usefull for magicka DKs even with physical damage as cheap spammable ultimate that apply unscaled damage shield. Nightblades got Incapacitating Strike to deal disease damage, i.e. increased effectiveness for stamina build.
With suggested change Empowering Sweep will become usefull mitigation ultimate for stamplars who currently can't benefit from any class ultimate. As example i will link to thread from EU tournament where stamplar was forced to use this ult as simply can't afford anything nor for damage nor for mitigation.
5. With current revamp of Dawnbreaker, you may say that stamplars got ultimate, and with this request Empowering Sweep will become fotm morph, however it will lead to next situation:

1. Stamplars would have choice to either use non-class ultimate for damage or (finally) class ultimate morph for mitigation. They will have possibility to slot offensive ult on 1 bar and defensive on 2nd bar
2. Magplars with revamped Dawnbreaker will have option - either use Meteor from Mage Guild line that is not cheap and class cheap ultimate morph (Crescent Sweep) or Meteor+Emowering Sweep for mitigation. As result, in compariosn to stamplars, magicka templars will have option to combo ultimates : Shooting Star+ES [for damage and mitigation] or Shooting Star+ CS [for high AoE/single target damage].

Here is screenshot of my test of Crescent Sweep and Dawnbreaker of Smiting(before its revamp into physical ult) on same packs of mobs:

As you can see Dawnbreaker dealt 125.906 damage while Crescent initial damage+DoT+procs of Burning Light(p.s. that will be able to deal physical damage to to increase its effetiveness for stamplars) dealt 53.755+40.070+8.060=101855 damage. Not that low with having in mind fact that Shooting Star landed on same crowd and deal serious damage also granting enough ultimates to cast CS/ES next second.
6. Changing to flat mitigation also will lead to next situations and removal of problems:

a. Magicka templars don't have strong mitigation ultimate for PvP (Nova costs too much, Rite of Passage is more like group ultimate that can't safe in outnumbered situations simply coz smart enemies will apply heal debuffs that sugnificantly reducing effectiveness of ultimate). This change will fix it.
b. Magicka templar/stamplars don't have class based speed buff, and forced to eat damage in the face. As solution there is vamprirism that was also buffed, and right now sadly is almost mandatory for magicka templars to increase their survivability. With this change templars who don't wanna play vampires will have strong alternative option to use class based mitigation ultimate.

7. It will add more uniqueness. Long time ago DoT component was added to make ult more like Aura type. With this change - ES will serve role of like preemptive short duration buff that will consume ultimate points, and will be usefull in such situations when templar need to retreat under heavy enemies' fire, so ult will work not only for battle but for survival tool when leaving battle and serve role of Aura more properly .
8. It won't become super strong ult:

a. In 1v1 scenario - currently: 15%/19% mitigation. Will apply: 30% b. In 1v2 scenario - currently: 15%/19%/23% mitigation. Will apply: 30% c. In 1v6 scenario - currently capped: 39% mitigation. Will apply: 30% d. In 1xMore_than_6 scenario - same caped mitigation and will apply same 30%. ^^^The more targets templar fight in perfct scenario with request, the less effectiveness of revamped ES will be, less enemies - more effective, with max effectiveness differense for 11%. Perfect scenarios where ES face capped number of enemies, effectiveness of revamp will be decresed for 9%. Perfect scenarios where ES face more than capped enemies - ES effectiveness will be equal to perfect cap scenario, however here it is irrelevant simply coz no matter what ultimate will be used battle won't be won.
So, stronger in 1v1, but decreasing comparable effectiveness based on number of enemies. Peak of effectiveness is 15%-11%, Peak of ineffectiveness is 9%. In addition it will won't drastically decreasing it's effectivness in unideal scenarios that majority of fights have.
9. You may think it will benefit from different setups too perfectly, but it will benefit from it just like any other class cheap ultimate and currently Empowering Sweep, unlike ults from paragraph 1, has zero benefit.
______________________________________________________________________
@Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_GinaBruno and rest: if you agree on this please make it work that way when DB will come live.

Solariken · May 2016

Yes, as a Stamplar I support this idea 100%. I would definitely slot Empowering Sweep situationally with this change.

Hell, if you also add Minor Berserk (+8% dmg) to Crescent Sweep for its duration, the ultimate would reach perfection and both morphs would be incredibly appealing.

Soris · May 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Requesting to change 15%+[4% for caped target mitigation(6*4%=24%)] for 10 sec to flat 30% mitigation for 10 sec.

+99999

In pve it's okay since all the mobs hug you when tanking, you can get 4% extra mitigation for each target you hit. But in pvp it's not functioning! (like half of templar skills)
Most of the time that +bonus doesn't even apply bc this little *** ultimate miss everytime even ppl right in your face without shuffle. Bc elevation checks in this game are poorly coded.

WillhelmBlack · May 2016

Should be an aoe knockdown imo. A proper tank ultimate. Damage and mitigation could stay the same.

Panth141 · May 2016

The only templar I play is my healer, who very occasionally switches to DPS, so I have very little bias in this...

But I agree that this ultimate is entirely inferior to other classes' 'spammable' or 'go to' damage ultimate. It seems to have so many conditions attached to it - and doesn't include a morph that does physical damage, IIRC. To be honest all three of the Templar ultimates are pretty underwhelming in PvP. Though Nova is great in PvE.

I'd like to think that, like NB's Power Extraction, this was simply missed when changes were being made... @Wrobel ?

danno8 · May 2016

And while we are at it, can we please get both morphs changed to at least 8m!!

I have been levelling Crescent in anticipation of the change to Dawnbreaker to physical, and this skill is ridiculous trying to land it with only 6m range. Guys standing right in front of me and it just doesn't connect 75% of the time.

Reevster · May 2016

Is there anyone who actually uses this in PvP? I mean it just seems so underpowered.

Maybe I am just not using it properly?

Zheg · May 2016

danno8 wrote: »

And while we are at it, can we please get both morphs changed to at least 8m!!

I have been levelling Crescent in anticipation of the change to Dawnbreaker to physical, and this skill is ridiculous trying to land it with only 6m range. Guys standing right in front of me and it just doesn't connect 75% of the time.

Let's also not forget the moronic "pulse" mechanic centered on the caster. If the opponent is smart enough to move outside of a 6m range, most of the damage is completely wasted.

danno8 · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

And while we are at it, can we please get both morphs changed to at least 8m!!

I have been levelling Crescent in anticipation of the change to Dawnbreaker to physical, and this skill is ridiculous trying to land it with only 6m range. Guys standing right in front of me and it just doesn't connect 75% of the time.

Let's also not forget the moronic "pulse" mechanic centered on the caster. If the opponent is smart enough to move outside of a 6m range, most of the damage is completely wasted.

Can't argue there.

It's fits right in with the Templar theme of "clunky". Never once have I used either morph and thought "whoah, that just won me that fight!", or "that just saved my life!". More like "it's what I have slotted..."

Ultimate indeed.

Soris · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

And while we are at it, can we please get both morphs changed to at least 8m!!

I have been levelling Crescent in anticipation of the change to Dawnbreaker to physical, and this skill is ridiculous trying to land it with only 6m range. Guys standing right in front of me and it just doesn't connect 75% of the time.

Let's also not forget the moronic "pulse" mechanic centered on the caster. If the opponent is smart enough to move outside of a 6m range, most of the damage is completely wasted.

Because humans have brain but mobs haven't. It falls into the list of templar skills "good in pve but meh in pvp" So yeah..

On the other hand, making it flat percentage would make pvers sad because they loose around 10% mitigation. Not-so-similar to blazing shield, if you buff the shield, it would make pve templars incredibly op but its effect in pvp would be much less for majority of builds. There are lot of examples like this.

I wish they just seperate pve and pvp about how skills function in both, and do balance changes accordingly.

Sugaroverdose · May 2016

From my PoV it's completely fine.

Reevster wrote: »

Is there anyone who actually uses this in PvP? I mean it just seems so underpowered.

Maybe I am just not using it properly?

Every day i get something like 4 kills using it in proper moment and get hell a lot of damage mitigation.

Zheg wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

And while we are at it, can we please get both morphs changed to at least 8m!!

I have been levelling Crescent in anticipation of the change to Dawnbreaker to physical, and this skill is ridiculous trying to land it with only 6m range. Guys standing right in front of me and it just doesn't connect 75% of the time.

Let's also not forget the moronic "pulse" mechanic centered on the caster. If the opponent is smart enough to move outside of a 6m range, most of the damage is completely wasted.

Most of the people isn't smart enough to stop mele trollplar >.>

Cinbri · May 2016

@Soris yes, morph that not working majority of times not only coz scaling mechanic but also bugs is completely weak.
And yet - Negate was revamped and became strongest AvA ultimate. Incapacitating Strike - was revamped to become scaling for stamina nightblades to be fully effective for them, even their buff to stun became instant buff. My suggestion will make ultimate working completely fine in PvP for magicka templars and finally stamplars will have ultimate that will be very usefull for them without ruining it for magicka builds. We all know that templar ultimates are weakest, why can't templars get such small revamp to have really good ult morph for both builds.
Also I believe it will be buff for PvE tankplars - for example vMoL typical run: on Rakkhat - currently activating ES grant 19% mitigation when Darkness Falls or Dark Barrage cast, with request it will grant flat 30% mitigation, 11% more mitigation - it is almost like Footman set. Or on events when typical tanks split mobs and typically tank 2 hard adds and have 23% mitigation average. Only situation when revamped ES will be weaker - is on pack but majority of mobs hitting like a wet noodle and use ultimates there for mitigation is waste of ult, majority of tanks use Agressive Horn.
I know that majority of templars gave up and doesn't care about this ult simply coz they became vampires, and after vampirism buffs even more people will become vampires, but yet i don't wanna see vamprirism as exchange for weak templar ultimates.

Joy_Division · May 2016

This change would make Empower Sweep more tempting.

My biggest problems with the ultimate, however, it that it's range is way too short for an ultimate and that fact I can not guaranteed to hit those targets even in range because of some y Axis issues and that it can be dodged (not surprising to read you say this, the animation does not look like an AOE, rather a single target ability that goes around in a circle - I would bet the code does not classifying this as an AoE). Wasting an ultimate is probably one of the worst feelings one can have when playing this game and as such it is my opinion Radial Sweep get addressed immeditately.

Mumyo · May 2016

It's too strong stacking it.
As a Stamplar i often use it in combination with rune and heroic slash... 38% permamitigation. Giving it 30% flat would be way too much.

Zheg · May 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

It's too strong stacking it.
As a Stamplar i often use it in combination with rune and heroic slash... 38% permamitigation. Giving it 30% flat would be way too much.

Minor maim is an exception because it's put on the opponent, but % mitigation is not additive, it's multiplicative. Rune + cyro's light + empowering sweep does not add up the way you'd think it would.

Mumyo · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

It's too strong stacking it.
As a Stamplar i often use it in combination with rune and heroic slash... 38% permamitigation. Giving it 30% flat would be way too much.

Minor maim is an exception because it's put on the opponent, but % mitigation is not additive, it's multiplicative. Rune + cyro's light + empowering sweep does not add up the way you'd think it would.

awh okay, illusion destroyed^^

Hymzir · May 2016

Empowering Sweep has a use in PVP for magplars, and I use it fairly often. The main thing I use it for is to avoid being over run by zergs. Most of my ultimate goes into fueling Meteros, but Sweeps gives me two really useful things.

First it gives me access to Piercing Spear passive on my back bar, since I have no room on it for any other Blazing Spear abilities (Used to run Sun Shield on it, but that thing has been nerfed into uselessness.) I also prefer to launch Meteors from my Dual Wield bar since they hit lot harder so no need to dual slot that one. But Sweeps is really cheap and is easy to get active. So, when a zerg decides to come crashing over me, I cast what ever defensive abilities I have time for, then dive into the blob, pop Empowering Sweeps and run straight though the barrage of proxydets, steelnardoes and other AOE spam produced by the blob, all the while spamming Honor the Dead myself.

Thanks to the damage mitigation provided by Empowering Sweeps, I tend to emerge alive on the other side of the blob which continues thundering on like the headless chicken it is, leaving me in peace to recuperate and regain my magicka and stamina. It doesn't work always, but it works often enough that I am glad to have that option available. And it really is the only thing you can do when 16+ zerglings try run you over. Pop up as much protection as possible and then run through it as fast as you can.

If it was turned into physical damage I would live with it, but would not be happy about the change since it also does decent enough damage for the price it costs. And forces the blob to spend at least a little bit of their resources on healing thus taking some pressure of me. In all honesty though, all Ultimates should just key to your highest stat and do the kind of damage your build is specced for. That would solve most of the issues people have with ultimates.

staracino_ESO · May 2016

The "dot' portion of sweeps needs to be changed to stick to enemies hit by the initial sweep. Trying to keep a player next to you for 6 seconds is just too clunky to work well. Hell, even some mobs can get away from you just as the pulse happens when they dodge roll or back away and the radius is so small.

Cinbri · May 2016

@Joy_Division aye, forgot to mention it. Sweep is unique AoE ult that in fact not AoE

I bet it related to way of how it calculate hits for checks of bonuses.(For example Crescent Sweep hit each separate target to calculate if it stand in front of you and will recieve additional damage from morph). Thats the reason why this AoE can be dodged.
If you will try to watch Sweep in slow-motion you woill notice it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmVCcQu55UA

It is problem for entire ultimate, no matter the morph. Empowering Sweep doesn't functioning properly because of this. So, my request will help to get rid of this problem for ES morph.

Mumyo wrote: »

It's too strong stacking it.
As a Stamplar i often use it in combination with rune and heroic slash... 38% permamitigation. Giving it 30% flat would be way too much.

As Zheg said, such buffs are not additive and thats what making them not that strong. Only time when ZOS messed with it - during IC pts when Reactive Armor 5pc was additive to battle spirit and CC enemy was resulting into god mode for those users. And I believe it will be balanced for cost-effect in duels duels/small scales with no affect of large battles coz rest of templar ultimates have mitigation bonuses, but, paying their high cost, they work as group buffs and work on any group members/randoms/enemies affected by your ultimate, while ES affect only caster, but right now don't even work properly.

eserras7b16_ESO · May 2016

it doesn't feel like an ultimate, that's true

Cinbri · May 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
bump

Essiaga · May 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Requesting to change 15%+[4% for caped target mitigation(6*4%=24%)] for 10 sec to flat 30% mitigation for 10 sec.
__________________________________________________________________
1. It is class spammable ultimate, i.e. most cheapest in templar's arsenal, but yet only ult (and morph) that suffering from scaling:
a. DK alternative - Ferocious Leap: doesn't have scaling and apply damage shield based only on your own health pool.

b. Sorc alternative - Overload: also doesn't have scaling and morphs affecting only ultimate itself.

c. NB alternative - Death Stroke: also doesn't have scaling, applying unscaled debuffs and Incapacitating Strike stun based on caster healt pools, granting more defensive option was revamped to always stun target, i.e. effect that scaled from health pool previously was made an instant.

d. Crescent Sweep - morph that don't have scaling too, ability to hit harder is not something important as majority of enemies you "face" are stanidng in front of you anyway. And DoT doesn't have bonus damage.

2. Even with increased radius it hit for small damage and have another problems -
a. despite it is AoE it still dodgeable, it can be dodged even by someone who stand just 0.1 meters away from you and used roll-dodge.

b. Working on some weird altitude axis it is still can miss targets in its radius.

Majority of time coz of those problems it doesn't even apply half of scaling bonus.
3. It has low utility in duels - if you will be lucky not to miss this ultimate - you still will have only: low damage, low DoT, and with luck 19% mitigation.
4. It has low ultility for stamplars - Empowering Sweep as said above can apply(with luck) only 19% mitigation, and stamplars will deal very low damage and will aply very low DoT. In comparison: DK leap still very usefull for magicka DKs even with physical damage as cheap spammable ultimate that apply unscaled damage shield. Nightblades got Incapacitating Strike to deal disease damage, i.e. increased effectiveness for stamina build.
With suggested change Empowering Sweep will become usefull mitigation ultimate for stamplars who currently can't benefit from any class ultimate. As example i will link to thread from EU tournament where stamplar was forced to use this ult as simply can't afford anything nor for damage nor for mitigation.
5. With current revamp of Dawnbreaker, you may say that stamplars got ultimate, and with this request Empowering Sweep will become fotm morph, however it will lead to next situation:
1. Stamplars would have choice to either use non-class ultimate for damage or (finally) class ultimate morph for mitigation. They will have possibility to slot offensive ult on 1 bar and defensive on 2nd bar

2. Magplars with revamped Dawnbreaker will have option - either use Meteor from Mage Guild line that is not cheap and class cheap ultimate morph (Crescent Sweep) or Meteor+Emowering Sweep for mitigation. As result, in compariosn to stamplars, magicka templars will have option to combo ultimates : Shooting Star+ES [for damage and mitigation] or Shooting Star+ CS [for high AoE/single target damage].

Here is screenshot of my test of Crescent Sweep and Dawnbreaker of Smiting(before its revamp into physical ult) on same packs of mobs:

As you can see Dawnbreaker dealt 125.906 damage while Crescent initial damage+DoT+procs of Burning Light(p.s. that will be able to deal physical damage to to increase its effetiveness for stamplars) dealt 53.755+40.070+8.060=101855 damage. Not that low with having in mind fact that Shooting Star landed on same crowd and deal serious damage also granting enough ultimates to cast CS/ES next second.
6. Changing to flat mitigation also will lead to next situations and removal of problems:
a. Magicka templars don't have strong mitigation ultimate for PvP (Nova costs too much, Rite of Passage is more like group ultimate that can't safe in outnumbered situations simply coz smart enemies will apply heal debuffs that sugnificantly reducing effectiveness of ultimate). This change will fix it.

b. Magicka templar/stamplars don't have class based speed buff, and forced to eat damage in the face. As solution there is vamprirism that was also buffed, and right now sadly is almost mandatory for magicka templars to increase their survivability. With this change templars who don't wanna play vampires will have strong alternative option to use class based mitigation ultimate.

7. It will add more uniqueness. Long time ago DoT component was added to make ult more like Aura type. With this change - ES will serve role of like preemptive short duration buff that will consume ultimate points, and will be usefull in such situations when templar need to retreat under heavy enemies' fire, so ult will work not only for battle but for survival tool when leaving battle and serve role of Aura more properly .
8. It won't become super strong ult:
a. In 1v1 scenario - currently: 15%/19% mitigation. Will apply: 30% b. In 1v2 scenario - currently: 15%/19%/23% mitigation. Will apply: 30% c. In 1v6 scenario - currently capped: 39% mitigation. Will apply: 30% d. In 1xMore_than_6 scenario - same caped mitigation and will apply same 30%.
^^^The more targets templar fight in perfct scenario with request, the less effectiveness of revamped ES will be, less enemies - more effective, with max effectiveness differense for 11%. Perfect scenarios where ES face capped number of enemies, effectiveness of revamp will be decresed for 9%. Perfect scenarios where ES face more than capped enemies - ES effectiveness will be equal to perfect cap scenario, however here it is irrelevant simply coz no matter what ultimate will be used battle won't be won.
So, stronger in 1v1, but decreasing comparable effectiveness based on number of enemies. Peak of effectiveness is 15%-11%, Peak of ineffectiveness is 9%. In addition it will won't drastically decreasing it's effectivness in unideal scenarios that majority of fights have.
9. You may think it will benefit from different setups too perfectly, but it will benefit from it just like any other class cheap ultimate and currently Empowering Sweep, unlike ults from paragraph 1, has zero benefit.
______________________________________________________________________
@Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_GinaBruno and rest: if you agree on this please make it work that way when DB will come live.

I like the concept but I would prefer the base damage reduction be raised to 25% and when striking more then 4 enemies you still get the 4% (i thought it was 6?) per enemy hit. This would not decrease its value when being focused but increase it's value in 1v1, etc.

Templar ABSOLUTELY should have a physical (BS that the 2 strongest stam classes get class physical ults) and Empowering sweeps would be great. It's tanky and if it were physical damage it kills 2 birds with a single stone and seems fitting.

The DK and Templar should be stronger vs multiple targets as they have/had no mobility. Both took a hit with miss chance being removed, though the Templar has continued to lose more and more mitigation, having it be replaced with more damage.

I still want Solar Barrage to AoE Maim ... I think it would be cool if it was a mass taunt as well. Even if its only 3 enemies. It would give templar something other classes don't have (besides channels/cast times) and improve the tankiness of the class (which I think is a little weak due to healing scaling off damage).

Cinbri · May 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Requesting to change 15%+[4% for caped target mitigation(6*4%=24%)] for 10 sec to flat 30% mitigation for 10 sec.
__________________________________________________________________
1. It is class spammable ultimate, i.e. most cheapest in templar's arsenal, but yet only ult (and morph) that suffering from scaling:
a. DK alternative - Ferocious Leap: doesn't have scaling and apply damage shield based only on your own health pool.

b. Sorc alternative - Overload: also doesn't have scaling and morphs affecting only ultimate itself.

c. NB alternative - Death Stroke: also doesn't have scaling, applying unscaled debuffs and Incapacitating Strike stun based on caster healt pools, granting more defensive option was revamped to always stun target, i.e. effect that scaled from health pool previously was made an instant.

d. Crescent Sweep - morph that don't have scaling too, ability to hit harder is not something important as majority of enemies you "face" are stanidng in front of you anyway. And DoT doesn't have bonus damage.

2. Even with increased radius it hit for small damage and have another problems -
a. despite it is AoE it still dodgeable, it can be dodged even by someone who stand just 0.1 meters away from you and used roll-dodge.

b. Working on some weird altitude axis it is still can miss targets in its radius.

Majority of time coz of those problems it doesn't even apply half of scaling bonus.
3. It has low utility in duels - if you will be lucky not to miss this ultimate - you still will have only: low damage, low DoT, and with luck 19% mitigation.
4. It has low ultility for stamplars - Empowering Sweep as said above can apply(with luck) only 19% mitigation, and stamplars will deal very low damage and will aply very low DoT. In comparison: DK leap still very usefull for magicka DKs even with physical damage as cheap spammable ultimate that apply unscaled damage shield. Nightblades got Incapacitating Strike to deal disease damage, i.e. increased effectiveness for stamina build.
With suggested change Empowering Sweep will become usefull mitigation ultimate for stamplars who currently can't benefit from any class ultimate. As example i will link to thread from EU tournament where stamplar was forced to use this ult as simply can't afford anything nor for damage nor for mitigation.
5. With current revamp of Dawnbreaker, you may say that stamplars got ultimate, and with this request Empowering Sweep will become fotm morph, however it will lead to next situation:
1. Stamplars would have choice to either use non-class ultimate for damage or (finally) class ultimate morph for mitigation. They will have possibility to slot offensive ult on 1 bar and defensive on 2nd bar

2. Magplars with revamped Dawnbreaker will have option - either use Meteor from Mage Guild line that is not cheap and class cheap ultimate morph (Crescent Sweep) or Meteor+Emowering Sweep for mitigation. As result, in compariosn to stamplars, magicka templars will have option to combo ultimates : Shooting Star+ES [for damage and mitigation] or Shooting Star+ CS [for high AoE/single target damage].

Here is screenshot of my test of Crescent Sweep and Dawnbreaker of Smiting(before its revamp into physical ult) on same packs of mobs:

As you can see Dawnbreaker dealt 125.906 damage while Crescent initial damage+DoT+procs of Burning Light(p.s. that will be able to deal physical damage to to increase its effetiveness for stamplars) dealt 53.755+40.070+8.060=101855 damage. Not that low with having in mind fact that Shooting Star landed on same crowd and deal serious damage also granting enough ultimates to cast CS/ES next second.
6. Changing to flat mitigation also will lead to next situations and removal of problems:
a. Magicka templars don't have strong mitigation ultimate for PvP (Nova costs too much, Rite of Passage is more like group ultimate that can't safe in outnumbered situations simply coz smart enemies will apply heal debuffs that sugnificantly reducing effectiveness of ultimate). This change will fix it.

b. Magicka templar/stamplars don't have class based speed buff, and forced to eat damage in the face. As solution there is vamprirism that was also buffed, and right now sadly is almost mandatory for magicka templars to increase their survivability. With this change templars who don't wanna play vampires will have strong alternative option to use class based mitigation ultimate.

7. It will add more uniqueness. Long time ago DoT component was added to make ult more like Aura type. With this change - ES will serve role of like preemptive short duration buff that will consume ultimate points, and will be usefull in such situations when templar need to retreat under heavy enemies' fire, so ult will work not only for battle but for survival tool when leaving battle and serve role of Aura more properly .
8. It won't become super strong ult:
a. In 1v1 scenario - currently: 15%/19% mitigation. Will apply: 30% b. In 1v2 scenario - currently: 15%/19%/23% mitigation. Will apply: 30% c. In 1v6 scenario - currently capped: 39% mitigation. Will apply: 30% d. In 1xMore_than_6 scenario - same caped mitigation and will apply same 30%.
^^^The more targets templar fight in perfct scenario with request, the less effectiveness of revamped ES will be, less enemies - more effective, with max effectiveness differense for 11%. Perfect scenarios where ES face capped number of enemies, effectiveness of revamp will be decresed for 9%. Perfect scenarios where ES face more than capped enemies - ES effectiveness will be equal to perfect cap scenario, however here it is irrelevant simply coz no matter what ultimate will be used battle won't be won.
So, stronger in 1v1, but decreasing comparable effectiveness based on number of enemies. Peak of effectiveness is 15%-11%, Peak of ineffectiveness is 9%. In addition it will won't drastically decreasing it's effectivness in unideal scenarios that majority of fights have.
9. You may think it will benefit from different setups too perfectly, but it will benefit from it just like any other class cheap ultimate and currently Empowering Sweep, unlike ults from paragraph 1, has zero benefit.
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@Wrobel @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_GinaBruno and rest: if you agree on this please make it work that way when DB will come live.

I like the concept but I would prefer the base damage reduction be raised to 25% and when striking more then 4 enemies you still get the 4% (i thought it was 6?) per enemy hit. This would not decrease its value when being focused but increase it's value in 1v1, etc.

Templar ABSOLUTELY should have a physical (BS that the 2 strongest stam classes get class physical ults) and Empowering sweeps would be great. It's tanky and if it were physical damage it kills 2 birds with a single stone and seems fitting.

The DK and Templar should be stronger vs multiple targets as they have/had no mobility. Both took a hit with miss chance being removed, though the Templar has continued to lose more and more mitigation, having it be replaced with more damage.

I still want Solar Barrage to AoE Maim ... I think it would be cool if it was a mass taunt as well. Even if its only 3 enemies. It would give templar something other classes don't have (besides channels/cast times) and improve the tankiness of the class (which I think is a little weak due to healing scaling off damage).

I think Solar Barrage will still be weak coz Blazing Spear still more usefull in PvP. I think SB just need revamp from AoE to something else (explosion like Proxy Deto or Deep Breath). Maybe self buff that explode after 6 sec and apply Maim or just pulse exploding every 2 sec for 6 sec to fit "barrage" name.

Elevenstorm · May 2016

I'd like to see where each pulse from empowering sweep to knock down enemies that are not cc immune for 2 seconds as well as adding the reduced damage taken. We must protect this house and what better way to punish enemies for being in your house???

Baconlad · May 2016

Actually...crescent sweeps is AWESOME in PVP, most players even if they don't get hit by the initial damage, will stay in its radius for the ticks, they don't realize its ticking away while your casting a very similar skill...puncturing sweeps...awesome skill, trick is to stun then imediatly cast it, then P-sweep. Or proc set up. Wait...charge, crescent then BOOM...done with VD it would be even bettrr

AfkNinja · May 2016

Baconlad wrote: »

Actually...crescent sweeps is AWESOME in PVP, most players even if they don't get hit by the initial damage, will stay in its radius for the ticks, they don't realize its ticking away while your casting a very similar skill...puncturing sweeps...awesome skill, trick is to stun then imediatly cast it, then P-sweep. Or proc set up. Wait...charge, crescent then BOOM...done with VD it would be even bettrr

It's much weaker than Dawnbreaker and still not comparable to other options.

danno8 · May 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Actually...crescent sweeps is AWESOME in PVP, most players even if they don't get hit by the initial damage, will stay in its radius for the ticks, they don't realize its ticking away while your casting a very similar skill...puncturing sweeps...awesome skill, trick is to stun then imediatly cast it, then P-sweep. Or proc set up. Wait...charge, crescent then BOOM...done with VD it would be even bettrr

It's much weaker than Dawnbreaker and still not comparable to other options.

I have to agree. I don't know what I am doing wrong but Crescent Sweep almost never makes contact. Dawnbreaker is 10m compared to 6m for CS. It just makes a huge difference.

So huge I may end up slotting DB after the update even though it will be physical. How f***** up is that?

Cinbri · May 2016

Aye, Crescent Sweep hit really hard and damage vs non-undead is equal to Dawnbreaker, but Empowering Sweep hit like a wet noodle and scaling reduction that not working most of time...
And i am not afraid if Templar ultimates may finally become viable.