One thing people keep forgett is that as Smileybones say "What people need to understand is that people with limited playtime are a big part of playerbase now and this have many consequences." and which many "pro player" keep forgett which is are even more import is that the so call "casual gamers" is the one the normal spend more money in game like ESO.

Sure a "casual gamers" have limited playtime but it normal have to do with that work and therefore can keep spend more money on buy thing in crown store.

I can say i went from pro gamer in mmo to a casual gamer in mmo for back in -99 to -08 at the end of The Burning Crusade (WoW 1st expansion) i play between 8 to 16 hours all most very day back then i have only parttime jobs and no girlfriend but somewhere in The Burning Crusade i meet my girl of my dream which im live with now and but by that time i was so hook on play so it was more import them anything else almost i would say i was addiction to playing mmo.

But my girlfriend help out off it and today i have fulltime job and both me and my girlfriend basically only play few hours on weekend if we have time for it but i guess my point is that even pro gamer that play mmo can trun in to addiction for you only want to be best and have best item and honest i would not recommend spend so much time with one game.

I would say it is way better to be a "casual gamer" then a "pro gamer" for get more out of life

Volkodav wrote: »

I do not consider anyone a "pro player".Pro is short for professional,and no one in the game gets paid to play it so they arent Pros.To call them that is to feed their egos,and they already have pretty good sized ones.
That term and "casualk" are both just stupid names to call players.Just my opinion,again.

Ouch, owning them again xDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Volkodav wrote: »

That term and "casual" are both just stupid names to call players.Just my opinion,again.

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

lordrichter wrote: »

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

I think it was during the question of CP caps that ZoS came out and said they will make choices based on where the "middle" of the playerbase is.

Which, if you are postulating that the "ends of the spectrum" are casual vs hardcore - neither is the model that ZoS uses.

Is the opposite of casual professional? And in that point, is professional not defined as:

a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Aka, they must make money from eso to be a professional. Which you will know only those eso players who stream for subscribers on twitch, or get quite a lot of views on youtube could actually be classified as anything other than casual.

Which means 99% of the player base are casual gamers. If anyone is going to talk down to any casuals id love to see their eso paycheque.

The only real professionals around here are gina

Wolfshead wrote: »

One thing people keep forgett is that as Smileybones say "What people need to understand is that people with limited playtime are a big part of playerbase now and this have many consequences." and which many "pro player" keep forgett which is are even more import is that the so call "casual gamers" is the one the normal spend more money in game like ESO.

Sure a "casual gamers" have limited playtime but it normal have to do with that work and therefore can keep spend more money on buy thing in crown store.

I can say i went from pro gamer in mmo to a casual gamer in mmo for back in -99 to -08 at the end of The Burning Crusade (WoW 1st expansion) i play between 8 to 16 hours all most very day back then i have only parttime jobs and no girlfriend but somewhere in The Burning Crusade i meet my girl of my dream which im live with now and but by that time i was so hook on play so it was more import them anything else almost i would say i was addiction to playing mmo.

But my girlfriend help out off it and today i have fulltime job and both me and my girlfriend basically only play few hours on weekend if we have time for it but i guess my point is that even pro gamer that play mmo can trun in to addiction for you only want to be best and have best item and honest i would not recommend spend so much time with one game.

I would say it is way better to be a "casual gamer" then a "pro gamer" for get more out of life

Volkodav wrote: »

BlitzGirl41 wrote: »

Ah, yes, this topic... In every gaming forum I frequent, be it the Bethesda or Halo forums, this always pops up.

Even if the terms "hardcore" and "casual" are not necessarily negative, it is unfortunate that plenty of people out there truly do use such terms as derogatory insults - "casual" more often than any other label, I've noticed. In the end, the terms are only what you define them as.

Personally, I consider myself a casual gamer, and I am not embarrassed to admit it. Mostly because I do not see anything negative about being casual. I don't have the free time to put hours into a game, and therefore I don't go around running dungeons or doing PvP, because those things take more time than going about questing. As many other people have pointed out, for those of us who do consider ourselves "casuals", gaming is a means to relax after the end of a long day of work or school.

That being said, I don't agree with people wanting to force the developers to make a game insanely easy, even if I struggle with some things in games at times. There needs to be a balance.

I understand that you consider yourself casual.Cool.
However,what would you call the person who plays every day for several hours,even up to five? Ones who arent into PvP,and just play that long because they have the time and get lost in the gameplay?
There should be a name for us,..since we dont fit the term "casual" in that we play a lot of our time.
(not being snarky,just wondering. I promise)

You need to break casual and hardcore down into two elements.
Mindset & hours logged

You can be casual or hardcore at either.
I'm hardcore mindset, casual hours
Your casual mindset, hardcore hours

Volkodav wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

One thing people keep forgett is that as Smileybones say "What people need to understand is that people with limited playtime are a big part of playerbase now and this have many consequences." and which many "pro player" keep forgett which is are even more import is that the so call "casual gamers" is the one the normal spend more money in game like ESO.

Sure a "casual gamers" have limited playtime but it normal have to do with that work and therefore can keep spend more money on buy thing in crown store.

I can say i went from pro gamer in mmo to a casual gamer in mmo for back in -99 to -08 at the end of The Burning Crusade (WoW 1st expansion) i play between 8 to 16 hours all most very day back then i have only parttime jobs and no girlfriend but somewhere in The Burning Crusade i meet my girl of my dream which im live with now and but by that time i was so hook on play so it was more import them anything else almost i would say i was addiction to playing mmo.

But my girlfriend help out off it and today i have fulltime job and both me and my girlfriend basically only play few hours on weekend if we have time for it but i guess my point is that even pro gamer that play mmo can trun in to addiction for you only want to be best and have best item and honest i would not recommend spend so much time with one game.

I would say it is way better to be a "casual gamer" then a "pro gamer" for get more out of life

Volkodav wrote: »

BlitzGirl41 wrote: »

Ah, yes, this topic... In every gaming forum I frequent, be it the Bethesda or Halo forums, this always pops up.

Even if the terms "hardcore" and "casual" are not necessarily negative, it is unfortunate that plenty of people out there truly do use such terms as derogatory insults - "casual" more often than any other label, I've noticed. In the end, the terms are only what you define them as.

Personally, I consider myself a casual gamer, and I am not embarrassed to admit it. Mostly because I do not see anything negative about being casual. I don't have the free time to put hours into a game, and therefore I don't go around running dungeons or doing PvP, because those things take more time than going about questing. As many other people have pointed out, for those of us who do consider ourselves "casuals", gaming is a means to relax after the end of a long day of work or school.

That being said, I don't agree with people wanting to force the developers to make a game insanely easy, even if I struggle with some things in games at times. There needs to be a balance.

I understand that you consider yourself casual.Cool.
However,what would you call the person who plays every day for several hours,even up to five? Ones who arent into PvP,and just play that long because they have the time and get lost in the gameplay?
There should be a name for us,..since we dont fit the term "casual" in that we play a lot of our time.
(not being snarky,just wondering. I promise)

You need to break casual and hardcore down into two elements.
Mindset & hours logged

You can be casual or hardcore at either.
I'm hardcore mindset, casual hours
Your casual mindset, hardcore hours

Hallothiel and I have decided we are "Regular Gamers".Dont like the term casual,so we're going for a better term.
I have tons of hours to play,and do so every day.
So what would that make me going by your ideas?

Casual mindset, hardcore hours.

newtinmpls wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

I think it was during the question of CP caps that ZoS came out and said they will make choices based on where the "middle" of the playerbase is.

Which, if you are postulating that the "ends of the spectrum" are casual vs hardcore - neither is the model that ZoS uses.

I am merely saying that they make business decisions and design the game with the "casual player" in mind, but don't forget that I also said that this is not the only demographic.

I am not sure that I consider "hard core" and "casual" to be opposite ends of the same line, by the way.

Volkodav wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

That term and "casual" are both just stupid names to call players.Just my opinion,again.

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

I would bet that ZOS doesnt even think about the word "casual" when thinking about their player base.Casuals are those players who havent the time to play for a long time.They can only get in time between their work and families. Those other players who do have the time to spend ingame for longer periods arent casual.They can invest time and effort to improve their characters.
They arent casual players at all.

Actually, I am fairly confident that they pay attention to "casuals", but they may not call them that. I call them Homework Dads, based on a statement made during the Tamriel Unlimited stream.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1544101/#Comment_1544101

Well, there seems to be alot of opinions about this. I'll just give my two cents: everytime I have heard someone being called casual, casual player(s/base) being discussed the context has always been pejorative. The lovely Dictionary.com paste does not mitigate the intent behind the words. The MMO's that I have played through the years have friction between casual and hard-core playerbase. Is there some common ground/love of the game/kumbuya peace that the 2 groups can come to. Probably not. But, jeez...don't *** on my leg and tell me it's rain.

IMO one word: Devotion

Hardcores are more likely to get emotionally invested in the game due to how much they put in. I understand anger and frustration when careless players hobble your gameplay. You put in time and time is money. A certain return on the investment is expected. Anger is a natural reaction to time being wasted. It's not wrong - but the method of dealing with that anger may be. Limited play time makes this worse because you have more to accomplish (your own goals) and can't waste the time that is available. The amount of accomplishment you feel from achieving your goals will be much greater than the casual players' sense of accomplishment.

Casuals do not get as emotionally invested in the game. Hardcore player anger confuses them, because they haven't experienced the time and effort needed to sink into this game to be upper level. Brushing off the anger as overreaction will typically infuriate the hardcore further. Casual players are less interested in pursuing the same lofty goals as hardcore players. Casual players do aspire to greater things - its when you start investing time into those aspirations that you begin to understand hardcore folks because you are becoming more like them.

Your definition as hardcore/casual based on time played isn't just the total number of hours played so much as it is the percentage of your free time that is devoted to this one thing. Topping leaderboards are not for casual players because they are not devoted enough to willingly spend the time - if they do, they inevitably edge towards the more hardcore class due to the investment required to get there.

How you currently prioritize your game in your life tells you how hardcore you are. "I have a bunch of VR16s from when I was more hardcore, but now I hardly play that often, so I'm more casual when I do play."

lordrichter wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

I think it was during the question of CP caps that ZoS came out and said they will make choices based on where the "middle" of the playerbase is.

Which, if you are postulating that the "ends of the spectrum" are casual vs hardcore - neither is the model that ZoS uses.

I am merely saying that they make business decisions and design the game with the "casual player" in mind, but don't forget that I also said that this is not the only demographic.

I am not sure that I consider "hard core" and "casual" to be opposite ends of the same line, by the way.

Volkodav wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

That term and "casual" are both just stupid names to call players.Just my opinion,again.

That might be, but I am pretty sure that ZOS makes business decisions and game direction decision based on their perception of what is a "casual" player. It might not be that name, and it is not their only demographic that they use to make decisions, but I am certain that it exists. We would all recognize this player if they ever told us all about "him".

I would bet that ZOS doesnt even think about the word "casual" when thinking about their player base.Casuals are those players who havent the time to play for a long time.They can only get in time between their work and families. Those other players who do have the time to spend ingame for longer periods arent casual.They can invest time and effort to improve their characters.
They arent casual players at all.

Actually, I am fairly confident that they pay attention to "casuals", but they may not call them that. I call them Homework Dads, based on a statement made during the Tamriel Unlimited stream.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1544101/#Comment_1544101

Honestly, I think that if they made the game with "casual" gamers lying heavily in the back of their minds, then there wouldn't be as much competitive elements and the main story wouldn't be as long. Because if you can't get online every single day, you therefore won't be able to beat the main quest and do other things as quickly. I think that Zenimax has handled the game at a good balance: There are features available for EVERY kind of player. Same with Guild Wars 2, IMO. I can go and quest and do things like that, but those who want to do PvP, dungeons, and other intense things are fully allowed to as well.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Hardcores are more likely to get emotionally invested in the game due to how much they put in. I understand anger and frustration when careless players hobble your gameplay. You put in time and time is money. A certain return on the investment is expected.

This got me thinking.

For some players, when something about the game (the product they are purchasing/we are all purchasing [or renting, I suppose]) is changed, rather than adapt to it, they have an extreme emotional response. Another term for it might be low frustration tolerance. These are the #ragequit-whose-with-me type of folks.

Is that how they play chess? Monopoly?

There are some players that when faced with changes or frustrations, stop, evaluate how they play, what they get out of it, what they want, and decide what they want to do. Some stop playing, some keep playing. Some ask for suggestions.

This is an MMORPG; and inherent in that (as I have had to learn over the past two years) is that it changes. I am capable of adapting to changes. I stay. I have fun.