"Casual gamer" - clarification required please

Shunravi · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

@MasterSpatula I love your warped sense of humor.

@Volkodav really, he (or she? I think of "master" as masculine) didn't mean it nearly as offensively as you seem to have taken it.

@TheDarkShadow I really like your comparison of people who like "the win/end" vs "the journey".

I am definitely a "journey" type. Learned it via tabletop dice-and-paper rollplaying, and trying to explain it to others who didn't do it. They would ask "how do you win?" and I would try to explain it's not about the "winning", it's about the playing...

They would look at me like I had two heads and neither one was working well.

Master? Um,I'm female. Did I say something regarding master?
It was offensive to me in that he was calling people "filthy casuals". I didnt attack.I was just expressing rather stridently that calling people names isnt cool,in my humble opinion.

Naw, its all good. I just saw it as him trying to argue the middle ground (the only ground that matters), and used the language of both sides the "elitists" and "casuals" respectively, and I think "filthy" referred to both at once. Its just more commonly used before the latter, and not so much the former... I still think it was referring to both though.

I could be wrong, but it seemed to me like he was making an argument against the extremes and people taking sides in them. Hence my 'missed the point' comment.

Ultimately we are all people enjoying (or trying to enjoy) the game. Us vs them dichotomies are rather toxic to a community environment after all...

(i should also add i think he was being facetious)

bottleofsyrup · May 2016

Casuals to me are people who:

Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)
Roleplay
Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

Shunravi · May 2016

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Turbotailz · May 2016

They're labels after all, but it truly comes down to personality in my opinion. I just wish some players were more forgiving than easy booting because they dislike the V level of that player or because they think they're a drag and want to insult them.
Casual gamers has the same qualification as a hardcore type because both have responsibilities in reality.

The only true difference between the two is that one wants to invest more than the other because they have the time.

MasterSpatula · May 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

@MasterSpatula I love your warped sense of humor.

Thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me all year!

@Volkodav, you really need to look into these things called "sarcasm" and "satire." I don't think it's actually possible for the satirical nature of my post to have been any more obvious. It was also completely clear that @newtinmpls was talking about me, not you, when he was using the word "Master." Like, not even a little bit unclear.

@Shunravi, good summation. The only things you missed are that both sides on this issue seem to want to do the exact same thing to each other.

Oh, and @newtinmpls, you should just call me "Spatula." Only inferior kitchen utensils are required to call me "Master."

newtinmpls · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Master? Um,I'm female. Did I say something regarding master?

You appeared to be responding to @MasterSpatula - and with a name like that, I'm presuming a male. Apparently you are too, given your next comment:

Volkodav wrote: »

It was offensive to me in that he was calling people "filthy casuals".

(bold type added by me for emphasis on the point of gender.)

I noted that his comments on casuals and elites were (with the careful exception of about 6-7 words) the exact same words, which I took to be a good-humored poke at the idea of one actually being better than another, and the idea of people taking such distinctions seriously enough to have a thread about them.

I thought the "filthy casuals" and the "filthy elites" (using both) was a nicely balanced, sarcastic-in-a-way-inclusive-of-poking-fun-at-both-extremes kind of way to do that.

Bossdonut · May 2016

Anyone who puts point into dex. Except for giant dad since it needs 10.

But don't you dare tell anyone you put points into dex

greylox · May 2016

Silly terms that help no one. I play at least 35 hours a week but I'm not interested in doing everything and being the best, just playing the way I like so prob don't fit into either definition.

bottleofsyrup · May 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Lol, so roleplaying is hardcore gaming?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

It's not so much how you play,but how you act.

It's not so much as how you act, but as who you are.

What you act like is what people think you are.You are judged by your actions,and how you act is who you are.

People, in general, "act" when others are nearby, or can experience the individual in whatever way.
This is not so on the internet.

Example: A kind person will be kind in games as well, where a jerk will be a griefer.

It's far easier to be your true self, than when there are others that can see this.

But that's my experience and opinion, of course.

Elana · May 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

IMHO, Hardcore gamers are people who always looking for "the best". Best in slot gear, best dps, best build, fastest run, 1'st team beat new trial, best score on leaderboard, solo dungeons... They push themselves, and in many cases, people who they play with, hard, to achieve "the best", and don't accept anything lesser. They will grind thousands and thousands of mobs, hundreds and hundreds of dungeons, over and over again, just to get "the best thing". They will refuse to group with people who are "below" their standard because it would slow them down and can't get a "fast smooth perfect run". They lead group, raid, guild. They make min-max builds. They usually the 1st find out mechanic of a new boss...

Hardcore players find their fun in the result, not the journey.

Casual gamers are people who don't really care that much about "the best". They are not all "bad players". Some of them are very good at what they do. They just don't have that drive to get "the best" no matter what it take. They would rather wear craft gear than grind a dungeon 100 of times for 10%, even 20% more dps. They rather use their play time to do something they enjoy, be it roleplay, running dungeon with random, pvp, questing... than grinding for "the best".

Casual players find their fun in the journey, not the result.

Quoted for truth.

Elana · May 2016

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Lol, so roleplaying is hardcore gaming?

No, the point is that roleplay and hardcore gaming are not mutually exclusive.

Edit: Apologies for double-posting, it wasn't intended and if possible, could a Mod merge my posts?

CherryCake · May 2016

After this I am SO happy to be a casual now that I finally understand what it means xD. I play A LOT, I try everything out and try to get better BUT I dont care about the results, I dont get stressed over not receiving a certain armor etc, do I get excited when I receive it? Yes, but if not, I will just head to make my own. The only thing I really care about are motifs. But I have a loooot more things to think about in my life and get angry about, rather than if I got a 3D helmet... ;___;.

I play to relax, I play to have like a little escape in a fantasy world.

Dubhliam · May 2016

In my opinion, the term "casual" is a sum of two things:

1. skill
2. mentality

Since skill is a derivative of time, people with less time to play are usually less skilled than those that have "no life". That is not always true, some people learn faster while some will never learn.

The other is mentality; the goal or the reason to play. Some players play to become the greatest and show their dominance, some play for their own enjoyment, or to say "for fun".

There are many combination of players in this skill vs. mentality spectrum.
And the combination of "low skill" and "playing to be the best" is what creates this raging war between the "casual" and "hardcore" players.
Because some people want to be the best, yet have no time or skill to achieve this, they ask for nerfs, to bring down the content to their level so that they can quench their thirst for accomplishment.
This, of course, devalues the time, effort, and skill of "hardcore" gamers and tension rise in the battle of Who Is The Best.

This is a general division of players in any game, and ESO is definitely not void if it.

Jazbay_Grape · May 2016

I think it's probably easier to define a "hardcore" player. To me, if you can and/or do use algorithms and formulas to determine say the difference between Hundings and Night Mother, you sir (or madam) are hardcore.

Guppet · May 2016

Jazbay_Grape wrote: »

I think it's probably easier to define a "hardcore" player. To me, if you can and/or do use algorithms and formulas to determine say the difference between Hundings and Night Mother, you sir (or madam) are hardcore.

The theory crafters are only a tiny portion of the hardcore crowd. There are many who take that work and just apply the results.

You can use someone else's work and still min/max. That's actually the norm in end game guilds.

In fact experimenting with what works best, to then do the theory crafting, scares the poop out of most min/maxers, you'll have to do non optimal stuff to get where you want to go.

More people should do thier own experiments and spread sheeting, but not enough people will accept a build not acknowledged as the current FOTM.

Elitists will even kick people for not being an accepted build, even though they have no idea if the person has spent hours analysing thier own build.

The game motto needs changing to "Play as you want, but run some analysis, to be sure it actually works".

Not enough people willing to try thier own builds and run the numbers.

Aimora · May 2016

Zerok wrote: »

For me, a casual player is someone who seeks fun (mean) and a hardcore player is someone who seeks accomplishment (end).

Casual players don't necessarily need accomplishment because they can get it from somewhere else. Therefore, the game is more a mean to have fun.

Hardcore players seek accomplishment in-game either because they lack accomplishment in real life or they are perfectionists (i.e. they seek accomplishment in everything they do). Therefore, the game is a mean to an end.

That is my take on things too - a perfectly eloquent way of putting it

Think Casual players are about the Journey whereas Hardcore are more destination focused!

Curtdogg47 · May 2016

I consider myself a "casually hardcore" gamer!

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

I consider myself a hardcore casual RP'er... XD

Shunravi · May 2016

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Lol, so roleplaying is hardcore gaming?

Dude, you are playing an rpg. There is a reason it's called that. And games these days are toned down from the 'glory days'. Consider that when talking about what's hardcore.

Besides. I know a bunch of roleplayers who maintain top leaderboard scores. Even if you consider it a casual venture, they are not exclusive to each other.

Knightpanther · May 2016

TheSpin wrote: »

Fun topic... here's another way to view it.

1st Gen MMORPG (EQ1)

Hardcore players played 40+ hours per week. They shared their personal number with their guildmates so they could be reached if a rare mob popped. They might spend half of their time simply waiting online in case a mob popped and the other half grinding mobs.

Casuals were basically anyone who only fit part of the above description.

2nd Gen (WoW)

Hardcore players focused on leveling and maxxing everything and then attend regularly scheduled raids with their guild.

Casuals could fit many criteria, but a generic description is a player who logs in for a couple hours a day to play.

3rd Gen (Now)

Hardcore players are the ones who actually commit to a game--no games really require that much work as long as you stick with it.

Casual people try games out but never stick along long enough to really experience all of the content. It may take a long time before they move on to the next game depending on their availability to play, but they still don't get to the level where they compete with the committed players.

I'm not saying this is the absolute best definition, but I think it shows that a casual or hardcore gamer is very relative and varies over time and depending on your perspective.

I agree with most of this especially EQ1, getting flagged for Time was one of the most time consuming things ive ever done (worse than SSRA!)

I'm not sure the bit about Casual people game hoping fits though in the context you have posted.

I was Hardcore in EQ1, same in EQ2 and WOW when it first started but in ESO im a casual.
But Casual can have many meanings, time available to play, what you actually want to do with that time or the way you play.
My job means that sometimes I have little time to play but sometimes a lot of time!
But my days of raiding in games or committing to long grinds is at an end.

Im not saying I didn't enjoy the hardcore raiding in EQ1, far from it I have fond memory's and met many RL friends as a result, these days I just want to have fun, log in and do what ever I feel at the time.

There is absolutely no difference between the skill level of a hardcore player vs Casual, its down to the player.
Just because im a casual doesn't mean I don't research or have less knowledge and skill than if I was raiding.
I only ever play 1 character, never have alts other than to research other classes skills, so my aim is to master what I am playing, something I consider myself very good at.

As for Game hoping, yep I have done this between ESO, WOW and EQ2, sometimes its good to have a break from one, but for ESO I will always be here

A good player is a good player regardless of the level he plays at, the time he/she invests or the environment he/she plays (PVE or PVP).

Be safe

purple-magicb16_ESO · May 2016

There are other terms and words that are similarly used as derrogatory but are only if the recipient takes it that way. Derrogatory is really in the eye of the recipient, not the sender. I've heard lots of people describe themselves as casual gamers. IMO there way too many real insults to worry about being called a casual.

Moonscythe · May 2016

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Lol, so roleplaying is hardcore gaming?

Ya, know, I think it really can be just as hardcore as the most rabid end game chaser of the ultimate gear. Really, have you ever taken the time to read some of the threads regarding role-playing opportunities in ESO? Hardcore can mean zealous and there are many flavors of zealous but I do think role-players could fit very comfortably into that label.

Moonscythe · May 2016

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

There are other terms and words that are similarly used as derrogatory but are only if the recipient takes it that way. Derrogatory is really in the eye of the recipient, not the sender. I've heard lots of people describe themselves as casual gamers. IMO there way too many real insults to worry about being called a casual.

Derogatory is all on the recipient? You are such a naif if you believe that.

Volkodav · May 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

@MasterSpatula I love your warped sense of humor.

Thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me all year!

@Volkodav, you really need to look into these things called "sarcasm" and "satire." I don't think it's actually possible for the satirical nature of my post to have been any more obvious. It was also completely clear that @newtinmpls was talking about me, not you, when he was using the word "Master." Like, not even a little bit unclear.

@Shunravi, good summation. The only things you missed are that both sides on this issue seem to want to do the exact same thing to each other.

Oh, and @newtinmpls, you should just call me "Spatula." Only inferior kitchen utensils are required to call me "Master."

Well,sometimes it is hard to distinguish whether people are playing at satire or sarcasm in a typed post. And Shunravi didnt correct me when I thought the term was meant for me.I wasnt being mean,just asking if he meant me.
I didnt insult anyone,just stated what my thoughts were.

SkoomaAddict420 · May 2016

They are a myth... It is said they can be seen here and there. Thought I saw one once in a mine, very scary...

Mojmir · May 2016

Hardcore-solid at the center
Casual-squishy

Shunravi · May 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Hardcore-solid at the center
Casual-squishy

squishy is good for hugs...

nimander99 · May 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Agree completely. RP'ers are the truest hardcore gamers of us all... Have you ever tried to RP? It's painfully difficult and absolutely End Game

Shunravi · May 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Casuals to me are people who:
Don't PvP or participate in end-game content (except for people who don't do those because of the lag)

Roleplay

Are complacent with game-breaking bugs and performance issues and frequently defend ZOS saying the issues are okay

I find it absolutely hilarious you have roleplay in your list.

Agree completely. RP'ers are the truest hardcore gamers of us all... Have you ever tried to RP? It's painfully difficult and absolutely End Game

Yea, I roleplay