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Why NB's are OP in 1 picture
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Yes nightblades do have all those things. You know why?! because its a rouge class.
You dont see anyone else making posts about how the templar has too many magic abilitys and heals.
Have you played any other MMOS? last i checked this is something so common around a rouge class everything you mentioned there... is pretty much in any other MMO.
There are so many people on this post calling you out on this post and saying you are wrong yet you refuse to think out side the box. Clearly you dont like NBs... we get it and we dont care.
It isn't about liking nightblades. It isn't about personal preference. It's about one class having the accessibility to stamina skills and major/minor buffs way way way above that of what the others have access to.
And it doesn't matter how many people can "call me out" and say I'm wrong. Take a poll bro. I guarantee you 80%+ of those people on this thread are nightblades who dont want to get nerfed.
Nightblades know their class best. Disqualifying the very people capable of proving you wrong on such a flimsy pretext is kinda shady.
I beg to differ from some players. Aka, those nb's who didn't know the old cloak pruge morph purged 4 dots not 1.
Or the kid who told me two pages ago that surprise attack only applies major fracture from stealth.
Atleast he didn't claim Reaper's Mark is a burst heal... or that Blur returns magicka.
Reaper's mark is a burst heal. It heals for 60% of your max health.
And blur does not return magicka, true.
Please, no. Stahp. It's ok to be wrong sometimes, it happens to us all. Doubling and tripling down on mistakes does you no favors.
I'm not wrong. It IS a burst heal. Unless 60% of your max health is not bursty enough for you?
It's not an on demand burst heal comparable to BOL, but it is still a burst heal.
This is the height of pedantry. The entire point of a burst heal is that you need it Right Now, otherwise any old heal over time will do. Either it functions as a burst heal or it doesn't. And it demonstratively Does Not.
You will also remember that YOU raised this point in response to me saying that Nightblades lacked good defensive skills and burst heals. Even if I were so generous as to grant you that a "Heal on Kill" skill is a burst heal (it is not), it was at best a willful sidestepping of my argument. Countering "I have no burst heals" with "you have a non functioning and non viable burst heal" is NOT an acceptable answer.
just because the circumstances does not suit your vision of a burst heal doesn't mean it is not a burst heal notice how i identify your statement to something of perspective because thats what your statement translate to... a perspective point of view that is completely situational, it still does change the fact to when i log on and i go on my night blade that ability is still available and yes a burst heal regardless of your perspective of situations to use it in. that is a factual statement.
It's a heal on kill. It's not a burst heal, it's essentially a proc that can only proc when you don't need it because it procs when you WIN.
BOL is a burst heal. Do you see the difference between the two?
The only argument you have here is a purely pedantic one. If I relent on this silly argument you will have successful argued that the only possible class burst heal a Nightblade has is a skill that is so unviable that stamblades in 1.2 playing without access to vigor or rally found it a Waste of Space.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Edit: but yeah, still not a burst heal. But it's ok, now you don't have to argue NB class heals are broken and need buffs!
so not only have you made it clear that your opinions are not only based on your perspective but you also highlight the the problem with biased players, you completely overlook a fact.... no you digress at the obvious facts with situational suggestions.
i will try my best to simplify the obvious fact.
here i go ..... you are thirsty..... you complain about being thirsty all day.... but a bottle of water is next to you and its been there all day..... you can drink this bottle of water to rid yourself of thirst ....... but you 'CHOOSE' (key word) not to drink this water because you "THINK' (key word) coke is better, therefor you will not acknowledge that you have water right there with you....... because you want coke.
moral of the story is..... at least you have it.
Dude.
I'm dying of thirst. I ask you for water and you give me a cup of sea water. Have you technically given me "water"? Yes! But you've been supremely unhelpful and deep down you probably know it.
There is no bias here. I claimed Nightblades had a lack of class defensive abilities and burst heals, and Jules countered with a skill that cannot function as a burst heal in combat. This is fact. It's a glass of sea water: only a compete pedant would insist that I can drink it because it "technically qualifies as water".
just to let you know salt water can be purified.... to clean water. which would make it fresh water. but wow you know what you need salt water to then purify it to fresh water..... hmmm wait you have salt water right.... yes so that means..... wow you can purify it and make fresh water ..... thats amazing. (the fact still stands you have something that you can improve).
If ZoS ever makes reapers Mark viable, I'm happy. Until than, useless skill is useless. I played Nightblade when we had no heals at all and it was STILL useless. I invite you to 1v1 me with your "burst heal" and show me how it works tho.
(loses argument results to "one v one me bro"......)
so you agree you have something. wether it be useless (in your opinion) or useful you finally agree that its is there at your disposal. and yes if ZOS wanted to they could improve it. but what if your a class that doesn't have it.... you can not adapt something that does not exist. conclusion to the debate. wether you perceive an ability as useful or useless it still does not change the fact that you have something that can be used, changed, adapted, improved.
while other classes do not have as much. (and now night blades want more cause the toys they got for xmas was not enough to satisfy there already noticeable, factual collection of advantages, now tell me why night blades suffer from being competitive again....? oh cause its hard to beat stam DKs.... excuse me while i go laugh out loud somewhere)
I've lost no arguments. I have merely invited you to prove the theory. Show me the value of this "burst heal" that I have overlooked.
And mate, I don't even know what the rest of your argument even is. It makes no sense. Having access to a skill that doesn't function in a viable way is MEANINGLESS.
yet again i receive a delusional broken record type of statement....."just because XY and Z it doesn't make it VIABLE' but you still have it to comment on its lack of viability. your not getting this so ill slow it down for you and add a few more dots to break up the words ever so slightly. you.......have......more.....passive.... boost... abilities......than.....other......classes.......
i really hope that helps you understand better. look i just would like to point out that night blades are in a great position better than most. they do not suffer from being competitive and they do not need boost they actually over perform significantly more than they should. and they have more versatility on paper. those are facts. no lies here just hard cold facts. i know the truth hurts. not to mention you have received buffs next patch..... have you noticed that....the patch notes are on the forums you can find them. just to clarify my argument so its crystal clear for you. night blades are overachieving in their damage potential and their utility of certain abilities climb higher than other class abilities and they don't suffer in PVE (stam night blades can complete vet malestrom arena) or PVP in any way. so concentration should be on adapting night blades generally to be balanced with other classes. (toned down)
simple facts simple fair judgment.
There are two separate arguments here:
1. Nightblades have a functioning class burst heal
2. Nightblades are OP
Two very different arguments that intersect but do not really inform the other. Nightblades are great. They just happen to lack good defensive abilities and a burst heal, which tempers thier effectiveness vs classes that have one, the other or a combination of both.
thank you for agreeing to the truth.
they are great.... i would of preferred over performing but were making progress.
wether they are effective because of the lack of defence abilities is questionable..... but the positive here is that the silver lining is we agree they are great and suffer not, not to mention are buffed even more.
concentrations should be on bringing them to balance. and yes defence capabilities also adjusted. one thing is clear though they don't need extra than they already have.
(the chief was never the bad guy in oliver twist.... but oliver himself for being greedy and asking for more when others have none at all)
gold medal to this dude for explaining in 1 page what I failed to do in 10.
He misses the exact same points you do.
Quantity of buffs > quality of buffs.
Also:
Buffs are not the only aspects to examine when determining if a class is OP or not.
Somehow you've managed to ignore these simple facts for almost 20 pages.
I never said that buffs were the only aspect, they are simply a piece. YOU said that I said that. YOU assumed that I think that, I did not and do not.
Buffs are but a piece of the pie. However, they are a valid piece that people like you keep trying to diminish. Your class' overwhelming access to these buffs and stam options are but a small piece of why they are OP. And I mean, cut the ***. You're basically only talking about major mending. So why not just say it. NB doesn't get major mending. That's about the only buff they don't.
But I mean, on flip side, major fracture on a stamina single target sounds like one of those "quality" buffs to me, but idk, what you think bro? No one else has that.
You make a post with an assertive "NB are OP" and use a list that only relates to the # of available buffs. How was anyone supposed to think you were taking any other appoarch?
Steve never said the number of buffs is inconsequential, but duplication of certain buffs and lack of others is a huge point towards his arguments.
If you had based your argument how NBs outperform other classes resource using Siphoning Attacks, I would agree and you could have found room to continue your arguments elsewhere.
I honestly think Manny gave a good summary, though I think he is discounting how hard his DBOS will hit next patch when he says Stamplars have no burst.
18 pages of responses, I think the threads title served its purpose. Also, duplicate sources of buffs is a point to make because it means nb's have choice. They have options, when i'm on my nb it is hard to pick which class skills to remove given the utility they provide, but the other classes are so cut and dry with such finite options its discouraging. And if it is that distracting, then we can stop thinking of OP as Over Powered and instead Out Preforming.3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Yes nightblades do have all those things. You know why?! because its a rouge class.
You dont see anyone else making posts about how the templar has too many magic abilitys and heals.
Have you played any other MMOS? last i checked this is something so common around a rouge class everything you mentioned there... is pretty much in any other MMO.
There are so many people on this post calling you out on this post and saying you are wrong yet you refuse to think out side the box. Clearly you dont like NBs... we get it and we dont care.
It isn't about liking nightblades. It isn't about personal preference. It's about one class having the accessibility to stamina skills and major/minor buffs way way way above that of what the others have access to.
And it doesn't matter how many people can "call me out" and say I'm wrong. Take a poll bro. I guarantee you 80%+ of those people on this thread are nightblades who dont want to get nerfed.
Nightblades know their class best. Disqualifying the very people capable of proving you wrong on such a flimsy pretext is kinda shady.
I beg to differ from some players. Aka, those nb's who didn't know the old cloak pruge morph purged 4 dots not 1.
Or the kid who told me two pages ago that surprise attack only applies major fracture from stealth.
Atleast he didn't claim Reaper's Mark is a burst heal... or that Blur returns magicka.
Reaper's mark is a burst heal. It heals for 60% of your max health.
And blur does not return magicka, true.
Please, no. Stahp. It's ok to be wrong sometimes, it happens to us all. Doubling and tripling down on mistakes does you no favors.
I'm not wrong. It IS a burst heal. Unless 60% of your max health is not bursty enough for you?
It's not an on demand burst heal comparable to BOL, but it is still a burst heal.
This is the height of pedantry. The entire point of a burst heal is that you need it Right Now, otherwise any old heal over time will do. Either it functions as a burst heal or it doesn't. And it demonstratively Does Not.
You will also remember that YOU raised this point in response to me saying that Nightblades lacked good defensive skills and burst heals. Even if I were so generous as to grant you that a "Heal on Kill" skill is a burst heal (it is not), it was at best a willful sidestepping of my argument. Countering "I have no burst heals" with "you have a non functioning and non viable burst heal" is NOT an acceptable answer.
just because the circumstances does not suit your vision of a burst heal doesn't mean it is not a burst heal notice how i identify your statement to something of perspective because thats what your statement translate to... a perspective point of view that is completely situational, it still does change the fact to when i log on and i go on my night blade that ability is still available and yes a burst heal regardless of your perspective of situations to use it in. that is a factual statement.
It's a heal on kill. It's not a burst heal, it's essentially a proc that can only proc when you don't need it because it procs when you WIN.
BOL is a burst heal. Do you see the difference between the two?
The only argument you have here is a purely pedantic one. If I relent on this silly argument you will have successful argued that the only possible class burst heal a Nightblade has is a skill that is so unviable that stamblades in 1.2 playing without access to vigor or rally found it a Waste of Space.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Edit: but yeah, still not a burst heal. But it's ok, now you don't have to argue NB class heals are broken and need buffs!
so not only have you made it clear that your opinions are not only based on your perspective but you also highlight the the problem with biased players, you completely overlook a fact.... no you digress at the obvious facts with situational suggestions.
i will try my best to simplify the obvious fact.
here i go ..... you are thirsty..... you complain about being thirsty all day.... but a bottle of water is next to you and its been there all day..... you can drink this bottle of water to rid yourself of thirst ....... but you 'CHOOSE' (key word) not to drink this water because you "THINK' (key word) coke is better, therefor you will not acknowledge that you have water right there with you....... because you want coke.
moral of the story is..... at least you have it.
Dude.
I'm dying of thirst. I ask you for water and you give me a cup of sea water. Have you technically given me "water"? Yes! But you've been supremely unhelpful and deep down you probably know it.
There is no bias here. I claimed Nightblades had a lack of class defensive abilities and burst heals, and Jules countered with a skill that cannot function as a burst heal in combat. This is fact. It's a glass of sea water: only a compete pedant would insist that I can drink it because it "technically qualifies as water".
just to let you know salt water can be purified.... to clean water. which would make it fresh water. but wow you know what you need salt water to then purify it to fresh water..... hmmm wait you have salt water right.... yes so that means..... wow you can purify it and make fresh water ..... thats amazing. (the fact still stands you have something that you can improve).
If ZoS ever makes reapers Mark viable, I'm happy. Until than, useless skill is useless. I played Nightblade when we had no heals at all and it was STILL useless. I invite you to 1v1 me with your "burst heal" and show me how it works tho.
(loses argument results to "one v one me bro"......)
so you agree you have something. wether it be useless (in your opinion) or useful you finally agree that its is there at your disposal. and yes if ZOS wanted to they could improve it. but what if your a class that doesn't have it.... you can not adapt something that does not exist. conclusion to the debate. wether you perceive an ability as useful or useless it still does not change the fact that you have something that can be used, changed, adapted, improved.
while other classes do not have as much. (and now night blades want more cause the toys they got for xmas was not enough to satisfy there already noticeable, factual collection of advantages, now tell me why night blades suffer from being competitive again....? oh cause its hard to beat stam DKs.... excuse me while i go laugh out loud somewhere)
I've lost no arguments. I have merely invited you to prove the theory. Show me the value of this "burst heal" that I have overlooked.
And mate, I don't even know what the rest of your argument even is. It makes no sense. Having access to a skill that doesn't function in a viable way is MEANINGLESS.
yet again i receive a delusional broken record type of statement....."just because XY and Z it doesn't make it VIABLE' but you still have it to comment on its lack of viability. your not getting this so ill slow it down for you and add a few more dots to break up the words ever so slightly. you.......have......more.....passive.... boost... abilities......than.....other......classes.......
i really hope that helps you understand better. look i just would like to point out that night blades are in a great position better than most. they do not suffer from being competitive and they do not need boost they actually over perform significantly more than they should. and they have more versatility on paper. those are facts. no lies here just hard cold facts. i know the truth hurts. not to mention you have received buffs next patch..... have you noticed that....the patch notes are on the forums you can find them. just to clarify my argument so its crystal clear for you. night blades are overachieving in their damage potential and their utility of certain abilities climb higher than other class abilities and they don't suffer in PVE (stam night blades can complete vet malestrom arena) or PVP in any way. so concentration should be on adapting night blades generally to be balanced with other classes. (toned down)
simple facts simple fair judgment.
There are two separate arguments here:
1. Nightblades have a functioning class burst heal
2. Nightblades are OP
Two very different arguments that intersect but do not really inform the other. Nightblades are great. They just happen to lack good defensive abilities and a burst heal, which tempers thier effectiveness vs classes that have one, the other or a combination of both.
thank you for agreeing to the truth.
they are great.... i would of preferred over performing but were making progress.
wether they are effective because of the lack of defence abilities is questionable..... but the positive here is that the silver lining is we agree they are great and suffer not, not to mention are buffed even more.
concentrations should be on bringing them to balance. and yes defence capabilities also adjusted. one thing is clear though they don't need extra than they already have.
(the chief was never the bad guy in oliver twist.... but oliver himself for being greedy and asking for more when others have none at all)
gold medal to this dude for explaining in 1 page what I failed to do in 10.
He misses the exact same points you do.
Quantity of buffs > quality of buffs.
Also:
Buffs are not the only aspects to examine when determining if a class is OP or not.
Somehow you've managed to ignore these simple facts for almost 20 pages.
I never said that buffs were the only aspect, they are simply a piece. YOU said that I said that. YOU assumed that I think that, I did not and do not.
Buffs are but a piece of the pie. However, they are a valid piece that people like you keep trying to diminish. Your class' overwhelming access to these buffs and stam options are but a small piece of why they are OP. And I mean, cut the ***. You're basically only talking about major mending. So why not just say it. NB doesn't get major mending. That's about the only buff they don't.
But I mean, on flip side, major fracture on a stamina single target sounds like one of those "quality" buffs to me, but idk, what you think bro? No one else has that.
You make a post with an assertive "NB are OP" and use a list that only relates to the # of available buffs. How was anyone supposed to think you were taking any other appoarch?
Steve never said the number of buffs is inconsequential, but duplication of certain buffs and lack of others is a huge point towards his arguments.
If you had based your argument how NBs outperform other classes resource using Siphoning Attacks, I would agree and you could have found room to continue your arguments elsewhere.
I honestly think Manny gave a good summary, though I think he is discounting how hard his DBOS will hit next patch when he says Stamplars have no burst.
18 pages of responses, I think the threads title served its purpose. Also, duplicate sources of buffs is a point to make because it means nb's have choice. They have options, when i'm on my nb it is hard to pick which class skills to remove given the utility they provide, but the other classes are so cut and dry with such finite options its discouraging. And if it is that distracting, then we can stop thinking of OP as Over Powered and instead Out Preforming.
The trouble is at the competitive level, jacks of all trades begin to not look so hot. Our class allows us to play a wide variety of styles, true, but I'd never want that at the expense of really going toe to toe with the best.
I don't think Nightblades are bad off. But I think cries of OP should be tempered, especially when framed against Templars and DKs who get access to pretty much all the buffs that matter while ALSO getting major mending and some decent to very good class based self heals.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost4 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »genjutsu_kami wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Yes nightblades do have all those things. You know why?! because its a rouge class.
You dont see anyone else making posts about how the templar has too many magic abilitys and heals.
Have you played any other MMOS? last i checked this is something so common around a rouge class everything you mentioned there... is pretty much in any other MMO.
There are so many people on this post calling you out on this post and saying you are wrong yet you refuse to think out side the box. Clearly you dont like NBs... we get it and we dont care.
It isn't about liking nightblades. It isn't about personal preference. It's about one class having the accessibility to stamina skills and major/minor buffs way way way above that of what the others have access to.
And it doesn't matter how many people can "call me out" and say I'm wrong. Take a poll bro. I guarantee you 80%+ of those people on this thread are nightblades who dont want to get nerfed.
Nightblades know their class best. Disqualifying the very people capable of proving you wrong on such a flimsy pretext is kinda shady.
I beg to differ from some players. Aka, those nb's who didn't know the old cloak pruge morph purged 4 dots not 1.
Or the kid who told me two pages ago that surprise attack only applies major fracture from stealth.
Atleast he didn't claim Reaper's Mark is a burst heal... or that Blur returns magicka.
Reaper's mark is a burst heal. It heals for 60% of your max health.
And blur does not return magicka, true.
Please, no. Stahp. It's ok to be wrong sometimes, it happens to us all. Doubling and tripling down on mistakes does you no favors.
I'm not wrong. It IS a burst heal. Unless 60% of your max health is not bursty enough for you?
It's not an on demand burst heal comparable to BOL, but it is still a burst heal.
This is the height of pedantry. The entire point of a burst heal is that you need it Right Now, otherwise any old heal over time will do. Either it functions as a burst heal or it doesn't. And it demonstratively Does Not.
You will also remember that YOU raised this point in response to me saying that Nightblades lacked good defensive skills and burst heals. Even if I were so generous as to grant you that a "Heal on Kill" skill is a burst heal (it is not), it was at best a willful sidestepping of my argument. Countering "I have no burst heals" with "you have a non functioning and non viable burst heal" is NOT an acceptable answer.
just because the circumstances does not suit your vision of a burst heal doesn't mean it is not a burst heal notice how i identify your statement to something of perspective because thats what your statement translate to... a perspective point of view that is completely situational, it still does change the fact to when i log on and i go on my night blade that ability is still available and yes a burst heal regardless of your perspective of situations to use it in. that is a factual statement.
It's a heal on kill. It's not a burst heal, it's essentially a proc that can only proc when you don't need it because it procs when you WIN.
BOL is a burst heal. Do you see the difference between the two?
The only argument you have here is a purely pedantic one. If I relent on this silly argument you will have successful argued that the only possible class burst heal a Nightblade has is a skill that is so unviable that stamblades in 1.2 playing without access to vigor or rally found it a Waste of Space.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Edit: but yeah, still not a burst heal. But it's ok, now you don't have to argue NB class heals are broken and need buffs!
so not only have you made it clear that your opinions are not only based on your perspective but you also highlight the the problem with biased players, you completely overlook a fact.... no you digress at the obvious facts with situational suggestions.
i will try my best to simplify the obvious fact.
here i go ..... you are thirsty..... you complain about being thirsty all day.... but a bottle of water is next to you and its been there all day..... you can drink this bottle of water to rid yourself of thirst ....... but you 'CHOOSE' (key word) not to drink this water because you "THINK' (key word) coke is better, therefor you will not acknowledge that you have water right there with you....... because you want coke.
moral of the story is..... at least you have it.
Dude.
I'm dying of thirst. I ask you for water and you give me a cup of sea water. Have you technically given me "water"? Yes! But you've been supremely unhelpful and deep down you probably know it.
There is no bias here. I claimed Nightblades had a lack of class defensive abilities and burst heals, and Jules countered with a skill that cannot function as a burst heal in combat. This is fact. It's a glass of sea water: only a compete pedant would insist that I can drink it because it "technically qualifies as water".
just to let you know salt water can be purified.... to clean water. which would make it fresh water. but wow you know what you need salt water to then purify it to fresh water..... hmmm wait you have salt water right.... yes so that means..... wow you can purify it and make fresh water ..... thats amazing. (the fact still stands you have something that you can improve).
If ZoS ever makes reapers Mark viable, I'm happy. Until than, useless skill is useless. I played Nightblade when we had no heals at all and it was STILL useless. I invite you to 1v1 me with your "burst heal" and show me how it works tho.
(loses argument results to "one v one me bro"......)
so you agree you have something. wether it be useless (in your opinion) or useful you finally agree that its is there at your disposal. and yes if ZOS wanted to they could improve it. but what if your a class that doesn't have it.... you can not adapt something that does not exist. conclusion to the debate. wether you perceive an ability as useful or useless it still does not change the fact that you have something that can be used, changed, adapted, improved.
while other classes do not have as much. (and now night blades want more cause the toys they got for xmas was not enough to satisfy there already noticeable, factual collection of advantages, now tell me why night blades suffer from being competitive again....? oh cause its hard to beat stam DKs.... excuse me while i go laugh out loud somewhere)
I've lost no arguments. I have merely invited you to prove the theory. Show me the value of this "burst heal" that I have overlooked.
And mate, I don't even know what the rest of your argument even is. It makes no sense. Having access to a skill that doesn't function in a viable way is MEANINGLESS.
yet again i receive a delusional broken record type of statement....."just because XY and Z it doesn't make it VIABLE' but you still have it to comment on its lack of viability. your not getting this so ill slow it down for you and add a few more dots to break up the words ever so slightly. you.......have......more.....passive.... boost... abilities......than.....other......classes.......
i really hope that helps you understand better. look i just would like to point out that night blades are in a great position better than most. they do not suffer from being competitive and they do not need boost they actually over perform significantly more than they should. and they have more versatility on paper. those are facts. no lies here just hard cold facts. i know the truth hurts. not to mention you have received buffs next patch..... have you noticed that....the patch notes are on the forums you can find them. just to clarify my argument so its crystal clear for you. night blades are overachieving in their damage potential and their utility of certain abilities climb higher than other class abilities and they don't suffer in PVE (stam night blades can complete vet malestrom arena) or PVP in any way. so concentration should be on adapting night blades generally to be balanced with other classes. (toned down)
simple facts simple fair judgment.
There are two separate arguments here:
1. Nightblades have a functioning class burst heal
2. Nightblades are OP
Two very different arguments that intersect but do not really inform the other. Nightblades are great. They just happen to lack good defensive abilities and a burst heal, which tempers thier effectiveness vs classes that have one, the other or a combination of both.
thank you for agreeing to the truth.
they are great.... i would of preferred over performing but were making progress.
wether they are effective because of the lack of defence abilities is questionable..... but the positive here is that the silver lining is we agree they are great and suffer not, not to mention are buffed even more.
concentrations should be on bringing them to balance. and yes defence capabilities also adjusted. one thing is clear though they don't need extra than they already have.
(the chief was never the bad guy in oliver twist.... but oliver himself for being greedy and asking for more when others have none at all)
gold medal to this dude for explaining in 1 page what I failed to do in 10.
He misses the exact same points you do.
Quantity of buffs > quality of buffs.
Also:
Buffs are not the only aspects to examine when determining if a class is OP or not.
Somehow you've managed to ignore these simple facts for almost 20 pages.
I never said that buffs were the only aspect, they are simply a piece. YOU said that I said that. YOU assumed that I think that, I did not and do not.
Buffs are but a piece of the pie. However, they are a valid piece that people like you keep trying to diminish. Your class' overwhelming access to these buffs and stam options are but a small piece of why they are OP. And I mean, cut the ***. You're basically only talking about major mending. So why not just say it. NB doesn't get major mending. That's about the only buff they don't.
But I mean, on flip side, major fracture on a stamina single target sounds like one of those "quality" buffs to me, but idk, what you think bro? No one else has that.
You make a post with an assertive "NB are OP" and use a list that only relates to the # of available buffs. How was anyone supposed to think you were taking any other appoarch?
Steve never said the number of buffs is inconsequential, but duplication of certain buffs and lack of others is a huge point towards his arguments.
If you had based your argument how NBs outperform other classes resource using Siphoning Attacks, I would agree and you could have found room to continue your arguments elsewhere.
I honestly think Manny gave a good summary, though I think he is discounting how hard his DBOS will hit next patch when he says Stamplars have no burst.
18 pages of responses, I think the threads title served its purpose. Also, duplicate sources of buffs is a point to make because it means nb's have choice. They have options, when i'm on my nb it is hard to pick which class skills to remove given the utility they provide, but the other classes are so cut and dry with such finite options its discouraging. And if it is that distracting, then we can stop thinking of OP as Over Powered and instead Out Preforming.
The trouble is at the competitive level, jacks of all trades begin to not look so hot. Our class allows us to play a wide variety of styles, true, but I'd never want that at the expense of really going toe to toe with the best.
I don't think Nightblades are bad off. But I think cries of OP should be tempered, especially when framed against Templars and DKs who get access to pretty much all the buffs that matter while ALSO getting major mending and some decent to very good class based self heals.
I also agree here. Jules isn't crazy (well crazy for wearing crocs in 2016), NBs have more buffs I guess (I didn't even know). But so what? My issue, and what I been pointing at in all my responses is that NBs are not "OVERPOWERED". I think the fact that this thread is about this term has been lost in all the pages and back and forth.
Forget about all the Excel spreadsheets, buffs, theories, etc. In real world scenarios during ESO play, NBs simply aren't crushing the other classes. They can win, but they aren't steamrolling another player of equivalent skill and spec'd build. I assume that many of you agree that this is what is at the core of the specific term overpowered. Sure NBs can hit hard, pretty much all the classes can in their own way. But in real world fights a NB is in serious trouble against well spec'd DKs and templars. If you don't believe me, go back a page or two here and read what Mojican posted.Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 16, 2016 3:25AM4 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭---- weapons ----
2H:
cleave -> carve (minor heroism)
uppercut -> dizzying (minor maim)
uppercut -> wrecking blow (empower)
momentum (and morphs/rally) (major brutality)
1H:
puncture (major facture)
ransack (major fracture) + (minor resolve)
pierce armor (major fracture) + (major breach)
low slash (minor maim)
heroic slash (minor maim) + (minor heroism)
power bash -> reverberating bash (major defile)
DW:
blade cloak -> quick cloak (major expedition)
Bow:
Snipe -> Lethal arrow (major defile)
Snipe -> focused aim (minor fracture)
Destro:
Weakness to Elements (major breach)
Impulse -> Pulsar (minor mangle)
Resto:
blessing of protection (minor resolve) + (minor ward)
combat prayer + (minor berserk)
armor
light armor: nothing
medium armor: (major evasion)
heavy armor: (major resolve) + (major ward)
world
legerdemain: nothing
soul magic: nothing
vampire:
drain essence -> accelerating drain (major expedition)
mist form -> elusive mist (major expedition)
werewolf: (omitted roar because allies only)
infectious claws -> claws of anguish (major defile)
guild
fighter's guild:
circle of protection (minor protection)
ring of preservation + (major fortitude)
expert hunter (major savagery)
mage's guild:
magelight (major prophecy)
entropy (major sorcery)
equilibrium -> balance (major fortitude)
might of the guild (empower)
undaunted:
blood altar (major fortitude)
bone shield -> bone surge (minor vitality)
alliance war
assault:
war horn -> aggressive horn (major force)
war horn -> sturdy horn (minor ward) + (minor resolve)
rapid maneuver (major expedition)
charging + (minor expedition)
emperor: nothing
support: guard -> mystic guard (minor vitality)
aggregate of all buffs available from all lines:
minor heroism
minor maim
empower
major brutality
major facture
minor fracture
major breach
major defile
major expedition
minor mangle
major ward
minor ward
minor berserk
major evasion
major resolve
minor resolve
minor protection
major fortitude
major savagery
major prophecy
major sorcery
minor vitality
DK Exclusive buffs:
major endurance
major mending
minor brutality
Sorc Exclusive buffs:
minor intellect
minor expedition
NB Exclusive buffs:
major protection
minor berserk
minor endurance
Templar Exclusive buffs:
major endurance (DK intersect)
major intellect
major mending
minor sorcery
minor intellect (sorc intersect)
minor endurance (NB intersect)
minor fortitude
One side note: NB list is a bit longer if we exclude 1H skill line, and it is fairly relevant except that stam DK gets these class buffs also (major fracture, major breach, major defile, minor maim) which otherwise you must use 1H to get7 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Again all this back and forth about skills, buffs, and a whole host of theoretical crap! In the real world, you make your superstar NB build, put it in the hand of the best player you know, and send it against Mojican or any similar spec'd templar for that matter. Then lets all discuss the meaning of "overpowered".
And don't take it from me. Let that red beady-eyed elf Mojican come into this thread and explain. I know you're out there Mojican! I know you're there watching, reading, listening in! Stop being coy! You want a piece of me!!!! COME IN HERE AND GET ME!
In terms of stam builds I would have to agree. I have played everything except sorc, and this is what I think.
The current hierarchy of overall PVP stam builds is:
1.Templar
2.DK
3.NB
4.Some silly class Wrobel forgot about for TG.
Although a redguard stam DK will be the strongest possible dueling build (because of godly sustain), and DK is the best at zerging people (High burst, and good defenses). Personally though purify puts templar ahead of DK for solo play. It is the best counter to RD, and it prevents you from being healing debuffed. As it stands purify is one of the best defensive PVP skills in the game. Next update it will cost more, but it will last longer and snare.
What currently puts Templar and DK on top is major mending. Major mending is overpowered with vigor and rally. Not much else to say really. I have no idea how they should fix this, but I feel it over performs.
Personally I think next patch DK will be retake the overall #1 spot, and NB will be #2. I mostly edge templar down because incap will over perform, and the WB nerf actually hit templar the most. This is simply because templar lacks burst options, and DK will still have leap. It is to early to definitively say though.
To answer the question "Is NB op?"
I think NB is pretty balanced for the TG patch. The physical resist CP and cloak dot change went a long way for balance. Next patch I think incap stike will be too strong, but not simply because of the damage. Incap will have too many negative effects for one global cool down. Personally they just need to revert or remove the stun.
As the stealth class NB good at ganking, but isn't that the point of a stealth class? The mechanics for high stealth damage is available to all classes. The imbalance here lies in the game mechanics, and not the class.
Finally after 18+ pages we get back on track (and what some of us said in the first place).
A list of buffs doesnt necesarrily mean its OP, its a combination of buffs, passives, but most importantly abilities and out of all stam builds, Stamplars are on top easily because their passives work well with their abilities. I mean, CMON, a purge that gives major mending? Thats like a personal negate to debuffs, passives, and abilities all together and gives a huuge boost to healing by 20%+...how else are stamplars going to die w/o getting zerged?
They also get a cheap Armor buff (which also gives major mending) on top of 8% reduced damage and more boost to you healing...thats messed up, my Sorcerer's armor costs 3k more magicka and only gives me speed which was nerfed in TG patch... btw.
But my 2nd would be NB and 3rd would be DK. Next patch it will be NB, Stamplar, DK imo but it is a very close tie between NB and Stamplar and i only put it Stamplar 2nd because purge wont be cheap anymore and major mending might not be enough for the incap strike buff that NBs got.
Edited by PainfulFAFA on May 16, 2016 8:52AM3 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Again all this back and forth about skills, buffs, and a whole host of theoretical crap! In the real world, you make your superstar NB build, put it in the hand of the best player you know, and send it against Mojican or any similar spec'd templar for that matter. Then lets all discuss the meaning of "overpowered".
And don't take it from me. Let that red beady-eyed elf Mojican come into this thread and explain. I know you're out there Mojican! I know you're there watching, reading, listening in! Stop being coy! You want a piece of me!!!! COME IN HERE AND GET ME!
In terms of stam builds I would have to agree. I have played everything except sorc, and this is what I think.
The current hierarchy of overall PVP stam builds is:
1.Templar
2.DK
3.NB
4.Some silly class Wrobel forgot about for TG.
Although a redguard stam DK will be the strongest possible dueling build (because of godly sustain), and DK is the best at zerging people (High burst, and good defenses). Personally though purify puts templar ahead of DK for solo play. It is the best counter to RD, and it prevents you from being healing debuffed. As it stands purify is one of the best defensive PVP skills in the game. Next update it will cost more, but it will last longer and snare.
What currently puts Templar and DK on top is major mending. Major mending is overpowered with vigor and rally. Not much else to say really. I have no idea how they should fix this, but I feel it over performs.
Personally I think next patch DK will be retake the overall #1 spot, and NB will be #2. I mostly edge templar down because incap will over perform, and the WB nerf actually hit templar the most. This is simply because templar lacks burst options, and DK will still have leap. It is to early to definitively say though.
To answer the question "Is NB op?"
I think NB is pretty balanced for the TG patch. The physical resist CP and cloak dot change went a long way for balance. Next patch I think incap stike will be too strong, but not simply because of the damage. Incap will have too many negative effects for one global cool down. Personally they just need to revert or remove the stun.
As the stealth class NB good at ganking, but isn't that the point of a stealth class? The mechanics for high stealth damage is available to all classes. The imbalance here lies in the game mechanics, and not the class.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Half the time people complain about nightblades, its because they got ganked by one or a few and usually have no idea how to deal with getting ganked from stealth/invisibility or high burst dmg. Or because they lost to a nightblade while playing a less capable class (i.e stamSorc or mdk) or on an inferior build.
I wanted to write about my own opinion on nightblade abilities/passives but there really isn't any point in doing so. People who are proficient at the class (both stam and magicka) know for a fact that it is by no means over powered. Just like other classes it has its weaknesses and strengths.
Its strong... but not OP.
Now the real question is : Are certain classes like stam sorc on par with nightblades ?
The answer is obviously no. And therein lies the main issue.
Imo, Nightblade as a class feels complete.
Its abilities and passives synergize flawlessly, and thats what we should be striving towards for all other classes.
We should not let our blind hatred for nightblades prevent us from doing so.
Edited by Ara_Valleria on May 19, 2016 2:20PM°‡° ÁDAMANT °‡°
The Addon Abusers, Exploiters & Macro'ers Refuge•••• | Ara Valleria - AD NightBlade | Templàra Valleria - AD Templar | Åra Valleria - AD DragonKnight | Ára V - AD DragonKnight | Ara Laifu - DC NightBlade | Ara Waifu - EP Sorcerer | ••••
••••••| YOUTUBE |••••••Want to take a break from all the Lagging|Crashing|Cancer ?
Play Albion Online5 -
Aenlir✭✭✭To be honest, the only OP Stam class is redguard...I honestly question people complaining about nightblades. I think I've only been ganked once this whole patch and that was because zergbad was throwing himself at me til he got it.
Balance isn't bad at all except for magicka dk and Stam sorc needing buffs.
Also when taking about buffs, the absolute strongest buff a Stam class can have is major mending and NB doesn't even have it (nor should they).Edited by Aenlir on May 16, 2016 8:40AM4 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Jules please play a stamina Nb. Fight against @DDuke on his Templar (and some Stamdks who I can choose for you). I'm pretty sure you will lose 10 out of 10 duels, but maybe I'm wrong. Actually that would be a way to proof that Nbs are OP
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.7 -
Hektik_V✭✭✭✭✭Make inhale return a bit of stamina and a viable spam-able AoE DPS for mDK.
Slightly adjust stealth damage.
Stam sorc doesn't seem like it's in a horrible place with access to good heals (crit surge, vigor and rally), probably the best mobility in game with the combination of roll dodge + streak and very good CC capability with streak.2 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭---- weapons ----
2H:
cleave -> carve (minor heroism)
uppercut -> dizzying (minor maim)
uppercut -> wrecking blow (empower)
momentum (and morphs/rally) (major brutality)
1H:
puncture (major facture)
ransack (major fracture) + (minor resolve)
pierce armor (major fracture) + (major breach)
low slash (minor maim)
heroic slash (minor maim) + (minor heroism)
power bash -> reverberating bash (major defile)
DW:
blade cloak -> quick cloak (major expedition)
Bow:
Snipe -> Lethal arrow (major defile)
Snipe -> focused aim (minor fracture)
Destro:
Weakness to Elements (major breach)
Impulse -> Pulsar (minor mangle)
Resto:
blessing of protection (minor resolve) + (minor ward)
combat prayer + (minor berserk)
armor
light armor: nothing
medium armor: (major evasion)
heavy armor: (major resolve) + (major ward)
world
legerdemain: nothing
soul magic: nothing
vampire:
drain essence -> accelerating drain (major expedition)
mist form -> elusive mist (major expedition)
werewolf: (omitted roar because allies only)
infectious claws -> claws of anguish (major defile)
guild
fighter's guild:
circle of protection (minor protection)
ring of preservation + (major fortitude)
expert hunter (major savagery)
mage's guild:
magelight (major prophecy)
entropy (major sorcery)
equilibrium -> balance (major fortitude)
might of the guild (empower)
undaunted:
blood altar (major fortitude)
bone shield -> bone surge (minor vitality)
alliance war
assault:
war horn -> aggressive horn (major force)
war horn -> sturdy horn (minor ward) + (minor resolve)
rapid maneuver (major expedition)
charging + (minor expedition)
emperor: nothing
support: guard -> mystic guard (minor vitality)
aggregate of all buffs available from all lines:
minor heroism
minor maim
empower
major brutality
major facture
minor fracture
major breach
major defile
major expedition
minor mangle
major ward
minor ward
minor berserk
major evasion
major resolve
minor resolve
minor protection
major fortitude
major savagery
major prophecy
major sorcery
minor vitality
DK Exclusive buffs:
major endurance
major mending
minor brutality
Sorc Exclusive buffs:
minor intellect
minor expedition
NB Exclusive buffs:
major protection
(minor berserk)
minor endurance
Templar Exclusive buffs:
major endurance (DK intersect)
major intellect
major mending
minor sorcery
minor intellect (sorc intersect)
minor endurance (NB intersect)
minor fortitude
One side note: NB list is a bit longer if we exclude 1H skill line, and it is fairly relevant except that stam DK gets these class buffs also (major fracture, major breach, major defile, minor maim) which otherwise you must use 1H to get
Axesome, props for doing it. Small correction: minor berserk isnt NB exclusive because resto combat prayer gives it. Shows 2 things:- The fact that NB got more class skills giving minor/major buffs is balanced out by their very little amount of class exclusive buffs, and their questionnable usefulness (major protection is granted by Veil of Blades, very situationnal ultimate in PvP; minor endurance is great but there is better class exclusive buffs)
- Those kind of listings cant prove that one class is op; if it could, it would mean that NB and sorcs are the worst classes and templar by very far the best... lol.
Edited by Erondil on May 16, 2016 2:12PM~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Make inhale return a bit of stamina and a viable spam-able AoE DPS for mDK.
Slightly adjust stealth damage.
Stam sorc doesn't seem like it's in a horrible place with access to good heals (crit surge, vigor and rally), probably the best mobility in game with the combination of roll dodge + streak and very good CC capability with streak.
The cc of streak is awfully short. Not even worth breaking 99% of the time.1 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭genjutsu_kami wrote: »patch notes v2.4.3
this is a start to night blade balance. and it is welcomed.
No. It is zos listening to the cry babies and once again nerfing yet another class rather than actually making meaningful changes.7 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well, it just means I'll keep farming nightblades on my templar & other characters - in other words: nothing changes for me.
Though atleast they didn't decrease the damage of surprise attack.
There is virtually zero good reasons to slot Incap over DBOS now, not like I was going to do that before the nerf either. Before it atleast did 2,5k more dodgeable damage (now down to about 1,5-2k).3 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, it just means I'll keep farming nightblades on my templar & other characters - in other words: nothing changes for me.
Though atleast they didn't decrease the damage of surprise attack.
There is virtually zero good reasons to slot Incap over DBOS now, not like I was going to do that before the nerf either. Before it atleast did 2,5k more dodgeable damage (now down to about 1,5-2k).
This.
Even older flawless dawnkbreaker has always been the better ultimate, DBOS is a no brainer now.The Age of Wrobel.2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol, the only class with access to Major Evasion should have Minor Evasion too because reasons. #balance
Every class has access to major evasion.
Just because it's not a class skill doesn't mean anything really.
It's also a superior major evasion, all in all.
I think the major flaw to the entire argument you presented in the thread is that not accounting for non class skills is a mistake as they are absolutely part of everyone's toolkit.
It's like the argument that I see presented ad nauseum about how poor dks and poor poor templars don't have access to mobility. Facts however are that they do in the alliance war tree and it's probably the best mobility around (save for sorcs, of course). Moreover, every single thing that has been claimed as "lacking" for dks and temps is available easily in a non class (and better) form.2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭So can anyone answer this. Why does a shadow ability give major resolve/ward, 3% max health and Major fracture on one use?
And why do dk passives suck sooooo bad.
Seriously. Look at ardent flame passives and figure some numbers out. Searing heat 3%?! That's 300 dmg to 10000 dmg done! World inn flames 6% to aoe....
o.O
And does Vigor benefit from the critical damage passive? Its not in the tooltip, but knowing how stuff works in this game that says little.0 -
IamNoobee✭✭
Because everyone said major/minor buffs were not enough, here's the class passives at a glance as well-
i see 2 picturesPC NA ~STD and Wet Noodles~
~AD Main Alts - Zerog/Pyle - Magicka NB , Noobee - Stamina DK
~DC Alts - Not So Bright - Stamina Sorcerer
~EP Alts - Noobee Jr - Magicka NB
The first reset of VMA-PCNA #6 Nightblade Zerog
In need of a PVP Guild1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So can anyone answer this. Why does a shadow ability give major resolve/ward, 3% max health and Major fracture on one use?
Because you have points in those passives? I don't really understand the question.
Why does casting Restoring Focus give me Major Ward/Resolve, Minor Vitality, Minor Protection and Major Mending on one use?And why do dk passives suck sooooo bad.
Oh yeah, who would like permasnare just from having some points in a passive,
Or +12% healing received that stacks with Minor & Major Mending.
Or 5% less damage taken from spells.
Or instant full resources from ultimate
Or Minor Brutality & ulti regen by using Igneous
Or a freaking 2k stamina every time you cast a damage shield on yourself.
Such horrible passives...Seriously. Look at ardent flame passives and figure some numbers out. Searing heat 3%?! That's 300 dmg to 10000 dmg done! World inn flames 6% to aoe....
Yeah, that's a free 250~ spell/weapon damage. I'd be grateful for that.o.O
And does Vigor benefit from the critical damage passive? Its not in the tooltip, but knowing how stuff works in this game that says little.
Yes. Guess what else Vigor benefits from? The +12% healing & Major Mending DKs get.
All begs the question why they are buffing stam DKs & nerfing stam NBs, when it should be the other way around. Sigh.Edited by DDuke on May 17, 2016 2:21AM7 -
TheDink✭✭✭joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_ifpPXCMU
Is this what your talking about Jules?
Is my class skills to much?
you are literally facing people who are light attacking you lmao
is this what vet pvp is like?
love that they removed cp from BWB so we dont have to deal with that 2, 3, or 4 hit bull crapAlso known as One Calorie
HAIL NIGHT BLADER
rip bwb1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So can anyone answer this. Why does a shadow ability give major resolve/ward, 3% max health and Major fracture on one use?
Because you have points in those passives? I don't really understand the question.
Why does casting Restoring Focus give me Major Ward/Resolve, Minor Vitality, Minor Protection and Major Mending on one use?And why do dk passives suck sooooo bad.
Oh yeah, who would like permasnare just from having some points in a passive,
Or +12% healing received that stacks with Minor & Major Mending.
Or 5% less damage taken from spells.
Or instant full resources from ultimate
Or Minor Brutality & ulti regen by using Igneous
Or a freaking 2k stamina every time you cast a damage shield on yourself.
Such horrible passives...Seriously. Look at ardent flame passives and figure some numbers out. Searing heat 3%?! That's 300 dmg to 10000 dmg done! World inn flames 6% to aoe....
Yeah, that's a free 250~ spell/weapon damage. I'd be grateful for that.o.O
And does Vigor benefit from the critical damage passive? Its not in the tooltip, but knowing how stuff works in this game that says little.
Yes. Guess what else Vigor benefits from? The +12% healing & Major Mending DKs get.
All begs the question why they are buffing stam DKs & nerfing stam NBs, when it should be the other way around. Sigh.
Wait a minute, I was reading that with DB DLC stamina was getting a bump up and stamina NBs would see some benefit. You are saying that stamina NB is getting a nerf?0 -
Göttermutter✭✭One simple explonation by the mother of PvP is this:
Like in many Games MMO`s with PvP contents, the so called snipers, single played on nightblades and so on getting pushed up, because they fill up the pockets of such one, like Eso.
In Dark Age of Camelot such creations by developpers go so far the community didn`t called them snipers or nightblades, assasines anymore, because their magical knowledge was much higher and successful than a pure mage itself, so they get called up hidden mages! *g* Magegankers! and this at most instant.
But, sorry it gives not but, lets say some comes on and on top,who brings the most money and this are not so called "group helper-chars" or "assist-group-helper-chars", or at least the so called "supporters".
What bring in money are OP made Nightblades, go back in the PvP history and you will see it perfectly, for that i dont need any "showing up pictures", this is known, since DAoC get down and sold by a name, who i must list on! I guess he knews me well. 0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke
So what dk build do you use? I'm serious, do you even dk bro? The way i run it i have1 slot for either breath or unstable flame on a regular build. Now group play it opens up a little, you can get Down and get volitile armor instead of igneous or run trip dots w breath, injection, and embers. That's it. One purge negates your whole build btw.
So thick skinned, elemental defender, and impen effect the ONLY damage buff stam DKs get from passives? That's cool. At least they are tanky as hell, right? all those magika based, no stam morphed abilities in the draconic tree buff the heck out of my health regen! Might be worth something when heavy armor becomes less of a Steel coffin for your class to be buried in.
What I'm getting at is Nightblade is an example of being well thought out class. I dont think they need fixed at all, but other classes brought into line with them.0 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭Göttermutter wrote: »One simple explonation by the mother of PvP is this:
Like in many Games MMO`s with PvP contents, the so called snipers, single played on nightblades and so on getting pushed up, because they fill up the pockets of such one, like Eso.
In Dark Age of Camelot such creations by developpers go so far the community didn`t called them snipers or nightblades, assasines anymore, because their magical knowledge was much higher and successful than a pure mage itself, so they get called up hidden mages! *g* Magegankers! and this at most instant.
But, sorry it gives not but, lets say some comes on and on top,who brings the most money and this are not so called "group helper-chars" or "assist-group-helper-chars", or at least the so called "supporters".
What bring in money are OP made Nightblades, go back in the PvP history and you will see it perfectly, for that i dont need any "showing up pictures", this is known, since DAoC get down and sold by a name, who i must list on! I guess he knews me well.
Edited by Ara_Valleria on May 17, 2016 6:34AM°‡° ÁDAMANT °‡°
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Play Albion Online7 -
Göttermutter✭✭I knew some nightblades want to hear it, but its fact if you go back the history of them. I dont mean payments/months or so called "micropaymenst", because it doesent matter.
If you take the payments together, so you will see that some chars get OP just by their existance, that it means.
Who since release on eso-PvP are nightblades and so on, who are op made by this way with instant mage knowledge, nightblades and if you go back to other PvP`s every one of the "old school" can you tell that until the best players on PvP in MMO`s. Because it is fact!1 -
Göttermutter✭✭In PvP it shows up, the hidden chars are not the on anymore, who are needed and also the hiding behind a rock with a big groups gets down, because it is not neccessary anymore.
The most flexible shows up in quickness and this is no top secret, it exists since pvp exists.
So come me up with your pictures and releation ships. It is not needed anymore, because wuickness wins and if nightblades have some more and better quickness than other chars i can live on with that in PvP. If some nightblades have instant better abilities than for example supporters. I say no and thi means no, because it destroyes the PvP.
You can have the hidding first atack surprise ability, i dont care but to much is to much to call you snipers, nightblades, assasines or what ever .... . For the PvP you are to slow in my eyes and it needs more than nightblades for that.
If i put my speedy on (not hidding, for what?) i let you behind me like babys and die at first because you can not follow me, thats the point!
And if a zos-wheeler means or the developpers behind a nightblade must become more op, because they play such one, so i must degree, that is not the point i am here as techer for the "old school". I miss the running abilities for supporters, this would be great, instead to let me pull down every 15 secunds down the run speedy for everyone as supporter.
PvP becomes more dynamics, because more is showing up since release for the new generation, who are coming up now and no, its not its not the three jumper!2 -
Aenlir✭✭✭Ara_Valleria wrote: »Göttermutter wrote: »One simple explonation by the mother of PvP is this:
Like in many Games MMO`s with PvP contents, the so called snipers, single played on nightblades and so on getting pushed up, because they fill up the pockets of such one, like Eso.
In Dark Age of Camelot such creations by developpers go so far the community didn`t called them snipers or nightblades, assasines anymore, because their magical knowledge was much higher and successful than a pure mage itself, so they get called up hidden mages! *g* Magegankers! and this at most instant.
But, sorry it gives not but, lets say some comes on and on top,who brings the most money and this are not so called "group helper-chars" or "assist-group-helper-chars", or at least the so called "supporters".
What bring in money are OP made Nightblades, go back in the PvP history and you will see it perfectly, for that i dont need any "showing up pictures", this is known, since DAoC get down and sold by a name, who i must list on! I guess he knews me well.
^1 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Göttermutter wrote: »I knew some nightblades want to hear it, but its fact if you go back the history of them. I dont mean payments/months or so called "micropaymenst", because it doesent matter.
If you take the payments together, so you will see that some chars get OP just by their existance, that it means.
Who since release on eso-PvP are nightblades and so on, who are op made by this way with instant mage knowledge, nightblades and if you go back to other PvP`s every one of the "old school" can you tell that until the best players on PvP in MMO`s. Because it is fact!
Are you insulting me irl? I don't know jack [snip] about "instant mage knowledge".Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 17, 2016 7:25AM0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Göttermutter wrote: »In PvP it shows up, the hidden chars are not the on anymore, who are needed and also the hiding behind a rock with a big groups gets down, because it is not neccessary anymore.
The most flexible shows up in quickness and this is no top secret, it exists since pvp exists.
So come me up with your pictures and releation ships. It is not needed anymore, because wuickness wins and if nightblades have some more and better quickness than other chars i can live on with that in PvP. If some nightblades have instant better abilities than for example supporters. I say no and thi means no, because it destroyes the PvP.
You can have the hidding first atack surprise ability, i dont care but to much is to much to call you snipers, nightblades, assasines or what ever .... . For the PvP you are to slow in my eyes and it needs more than nightblades for that.
If i put my speedy on (not hidding, for what?) i let you behind me like babys and die at first because you can not follow me, thats the point!
And if a zos-wheeler means or the developpers behind a nightblade must become more op, because they play such one, so i must degree, that is not the point i am here as techer for the "old school". I miss the running abilities for supporters, this would be great, instead to let me pull down every 15 secunds down the run speedy for everyone as supporter.
PvP becomes more dynamics, because more is showing up since release for the new generation, who are coming up now and no, its not its not the three jumper!
Lol I like you now. You made me lol irl. Rarely has anyone ESO related done that.
Forget NBs. You're OP!
Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 17, 2016 7:27AM0