Are Healers Priviledged compared to Damage Dealers?

Guppet · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I think you are misusing the word privileged. I'm not even sure what you meant by it since your message seems to be to opposite.

Totally, the situation described is "disadvantaged" not privalleged. Completely the opposite.

If you want recognition you need to tank. Healers quietly get the job done, with the only benefit being a sense of pride in their own work.

A dungeon group is like a family.

Dad tanks, he is taking one for team and wants you to know it (those trainers are expensive, but nothing but he best for my kids)
The kids are the DPS, they have no responsibilities, but make so much noise, that you would think they are all that matters.
Then there's mum, she picks up the others mess, she keeps them alive, the others dont think she does anything, because she just gets on with it not wanting to draw attention to how awesome she is. For her, a job well done is the rest of the family being happy. Mum is a healer!!

Mr.Hmm · May 2016

No

Shunravi wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

So damn accurate.

I do that all the time in RIFT when i play my healer, its funny as hell.

And I gotta try FF(forgot the name for the online version.....) one of these days.

mistermutiny89 · May 2016

I double bar Breath of Life as I'm an Aussie on Eu Xbox server and it takes just under a second to deliver to my players (tried animation cancelling the demon ability but failed after months of trying)... I over use Healing springs (the extended duration morph) and place them around here and there THEN spam the hell out of blazing spear, sometimes slotting sweeps and meteor if the team's dps is average... If the team's dps is great, I'll use warhorn war to really buff things up. Couple that with engine guardian and high crit and you should be a great healer.

If that doesn't work, your team doesn't know how to block or avoid red circles or they think 16k health is okay in vet dungeons.

Don't let people diswayed you! As long as you're doing your best and you've done the research that's all that matters.

SlayerTheDragon · May 2016

No

I stopped Healing a while back because it really sucks. I have far better things to do with my time.

The point is, this game is very unbalanced - especially dungeons. I have had so many tanks be one-shotted, never mind the DDs. You cant heal that.

And in general people were not paying attention to the tutorial during the block and interrupt section. So few DDs block..

And when a DD pulls out Werewolf as their ultimate of choice...

Parrot1986 · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

pug runs are tough due to the varied abilities and comms of the group. I've had people stand in a sea of fire, die then emote "heal me" without realising you cant heal stupid. Running with guildies is much easier and allows me to do more damage and get really involved in brining a boss down. I'll always try and get involved in dps and if I cant something's not right with the group and not just me. HoTs, bubbles, shards, siphon, repentance, sweeps and RO always gives me a chance to contribute in all aspects of dungeons except tanking.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

The thing i like about pug healing is that they NEED healing. Sounds strange i suppose. But really i rolled my templar to heal. Not be an over blown dps that can heal. And in most pugs there isnt a whole lot of time for dps when people cant get out of the red crap.

Yes i know that the dungeon maybe would go faster if i let some of those red standing goof nuts die and just dps, but if i wanted to dps, id be running a dps. I have several. So healing it is. And usually a lot of it.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

Don't pug and if you do make sure you have 1-2 non pugs in group...that seems best

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

I'd love to do damage in random groups but, most of the time, it is one or two players who need "special treatment" (healing). Sometimes I can't even support stamina / magicka, because of players getting damaged under 50% hp constantly, even with the 3.5 HoT ticking...

Healing random groups is much more entertaining than in a guild group, where you have to be in TS. I'd love to do many more blazing spears / DoTs / dmg etc. but in certain groups it's unpossible. When the players are strong enough, I can do damage but that is in 1 of 3 groups. When it happens, we're much faster.

You consider TS a negative thing? I suppose not having communication helps if you don't want to hear complaints.

If people type in group chat, I might notice it when dungeon is finished.

dpgirl · May 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

I'd love to do damage in random groups but, most of the time, it is one or two players who need "special treatment" (healing). Sometimes I can't even support stamina / magicka, because of players getting damaged under 50% hp constantly, even with the 3.5 HoT ticking...

Healing random groups is much more entertaining than in a guild group, where you have to be in TS. I'd love to do many more blazing spears / DoTs / dmg etc. but in certain groups it's unpossible. When the players are strong enough, I can do damage but that is in 1 of 3 groups. When it happens, we're much faster.

You consider TS a negative thing? I suppose not having communication helps if you don't want to hear complaints.

If people type in group chat, I might notice it when dungeon is finished.

is negative for some people. I almost always PUG because guilds are mean and kick out deaf people for not being able to use TS.

Mr.Hmm · May 2016

No

dpgirl wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

I'd love to do damage in random groups but, most of the time, it is one or two players who need "special treatment" (healing). Sometimes I can't even support stamina / magicka, because of players getting damaged under 50% hp constantly, even with the 3.5 HoT ticking...

Healing random groups is much more entertaining than in a guild group, where you have to be in TS. I'd love to do many more blazing spears / DoTs / dmg etc. but in certain groups it's unpossible. When the players are strong enough, I can do damage but that is in 1 of 3 groups. When it happens, we're much faster.

You consider TS a negative thing? I suppose not having communication helps if you don't want to hear complaints.

If people type in group chat, I might notice it when dungeon is finished.

is negative for some people. I almost always PUG because guilds are mean and kick out deaf people for not being able to use TS.

I am a deaf person, well to be more accurate I have hearing impairment so i am using earpieces to hear better.

I will tell you this by my experience, TS is useless to me(Mainly because i cant hear well on TS/RaidCall/Mumble/etc). I learn the tactics on each boss easily and very fast by acting or someone explaining it at least once.

But then again i was playing Vanilla WoW where people never used something like TS to communicate and used Raid Warnings.

If people kick others based on solely TS then those people are idiots and morons in my eyes, a person does not need TS/RaidCall/Mumble in order to learn the tactics. Explaining the tactics is quite easy and much better than using TS.

TS just make it easier to communicate because some people cant write+fight at the same time.

Like I said this is my opinion and my experience so it doesnt matter to me what others think.

That said, I agree with this person 100%, I got kicked by guilds alot of times because i am Tone-Deaf(A more accurate term is hearing impairment) and that i told them i cant use TS plus some guilds dont let me come in Trials because i am simply tone-deaf and cant use TS(or something similar).

Yes I tried all forms of communications.
No they didn't work.

Egonieser · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

I only recently started doing pledges and veteran dungeons and trials on my Templar. A templar who I mainly played in PvP exclusively, a templar who is geared to do damage only.

It's an absolute steamroll in dungeons. Nothing in any dungeon compares to surviving and killing groups of enemies in PvP. My PvP build works just swell in Dungeons, in fact it works even better as there isn't a -50% reduction to heals and damage, which is what I was built around.

If someone claims healing is hard, it's really a l2p issue. A knowledgeable healer who has healed and played PvP for a while will know how to keep everyone alive AND kill things, it's what you do in PvP every breathing second. So if you struggle in dungeons, do some PvP and learn your character to the core, because let's face it - scripted and dumb mobs is nothing compared to real live evemies.

Mr.Hmm · May 2016

No

Egonieser wrote: »

I only recently started doing pledges and veteran dungeons and trials on my Templar. A templar who I mainly played in PvP exclusively, a templar who is geared to do damage only.

It's an absolute steamroll in dungeons. Nothing in any dungeon compares to surviving and killing groups of enemies in PvP. My PvP build works just swell in Dungeons, in fact it works even better as there isn't a -50% reduction to heals and damage, which is what I was built around.

If someone claims healing is hard, it's really a l2p issue. A knowledgeable healer who has healed and played PvP for a while will know how to keep everyone alive AND kill things, it's what you do in PvP every breathing second. So if you struggle in dungeons, do some PvP and learn your character to the core, because let's face it - scripted and dumb mobs is nothing compared to real live evemies.

Well half of the time in PVP i take a break and gaze into the scenery of bloodshed while my team-mates are asking for heals which i dont give because i want to gaze

Pallio · May 2016

Pugs can be completely random, awesome with skilled and geared folks... terrible with unskilled/geared.. etc.. alot of times people will have to be carried, sssume they are leveling new skills with crap gear... running with WB/Rally and a bunch of unused skills being leveled etc. Gets very frustrating at times, expect the worst and hope for the best, but it will get much worse after patch... v2 is crap gear, missing many skills, lacking experience etc... will look the same as anyone else.. I run with 2500+ regen and engine guardian, assume every boss fight will take 5min and you have to keep people from being 1 shot, they will lack mitigation and don't know how to avoid damage..............

NBrookus · May 2016

dpgirl wrote: »

I almost always PUG because guilds are mean and kick out deaf people for not being able to use TS.

WTH?! If one of my guilds kicked someone for having a disability I'd be out of there instantly. Life's too short to play with ***.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · May 2016

No

If you really think that healers are privileged, then you have never tried to play a healer. It can be the most stressful position. Tanking is just as hard. If anyone has it easy, it is the DPS.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

No

Duiwel wrote: »

I answered yes, but keep in mind OP this is an MMO & it will always be the case. Also keep in mind my reason for stating this is simply because of the wait time.

However is it just healers? No Tanks as well...

I have not joined pug dungeons since WoW in 2014 I prefer a group of people I know. However my opinion remains the same since the experience comes from way before then.

All MMO's will do this simply because there will always be a 50-60% DPS population and about a 15-20% tank population and about a 20-25% healer population....

Keep in mind that sometimes templars don't heal nor tank even though they que as tanks...

Healers and tanks are in higher demand, but that doesnt mean they're privileged.
They have higher responsibility, for a common pug a situation where dds only pull 10-15k dps is normal, and those 10k at vr16 dont require any effort. But of course, those people expect healers to add dps (even if the dds require emergency heals every 0.5 seconds), to buff and to sustain their resources, or even to fill 2 roles at once (healtank). And if things go wrong, its always healer's or tank's fault, no doubt about that.
I wouldnt call that "privileged".

sluice · May 2016

No

As much as a good healer will make a team better.
A crappy team can make the healer look like $hit.

@FrostFallFox, if healing is your thing, don't let scrubs stopping you from doing what you want to do.

Healing is much harder than it looks and by far in my opinion the hardest role to play out of the three.
You have to be aware of everything (everyones positions including the NPC, as well as never taking your eyes off the health bars)

When I heal, I make sure to often cast my AOE and jump on the offense when it feels right.
How good the players you are playing with will dictate how much you can participate on the offense.

Two rules to never forget when healing:
1. Make sure you have a Heal Over Time on everybody at all time (this means casting Rapid Regen and Healing Springs A LOT and also pre fight)
2. If nobody need heals, don't heal... (other than making sure your HOT are up..)

But in general, nobody should give you crap because you are healing 90%+ of the time during a dungeon, that's your role. If they can't do enough DPS, they are the ones that are doing something wrong.

Your job is to heal and keep everyone alive.

Valrien · May 2016

sluice wrote: »

As much as a good healer will make a team better.
A crappy team can make the healer look like $hit.

@FrostFallFox, if healing is your thing, don't let scrubs stopping you from doing what you want to do.

Healing is much harder than it looks and by far in my opinion the hardest role to play out of the three.
You have to be aware of everything (everyones positions including the NPC, as well as never taking your eyes off the health bars)

When I heal, I make sure to often cast my AOE and jump on the offense when it feels right.
How good the players you are playing with will dictate how much you can participate on the offense.

Two rules to never forget when healing:
1. Make sure you have a Heal Over Time on everybody at all time (this means casting Rapid Regen and Healing Springs A LOT and also pre fight)
2. If nobody need heals, don't heal... (other than making sure your HOT are up..)

But in general, nobody should give you crap because you are healing 90%+ of the time during a dungeon, that's your role. If they can't do enough DPS, they are the ones that are doing something wrong.

Your job is to heal and keep everyone alive.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone alive and running. A healer that doesn't focus on restoring magicka and stamina along with providing buffs to DPS is simply put: a bad healer.

Brrrofski · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

SlayerTheDragon wrote: »

I stopped Healing a while back because it really sucks. I have far better things to do with my time.

The point is, this game is very unbalanced - especially dungeons. I have had so many tanks be one-shotted, never mind the DDs. You cant heal that.

And in general people were not paying attention to the tutorial during the block and interrupt section. So few DDs block..

And when a DD pulls out Werewolf as their ultimate of choice...

Your tank shouldn't be getting one shot be anything in an yer dungeon. Unless the team isn't doing something right (portal stage in wgt, flesh sculptor in icp).

People not bashing really does my head in. Interrupts stop so muxh damage output from bosses.

sluice · May 2016

No

Valrien wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

As much as a good healer will make a team better.
A crappy team can make the healer look like $hit.

@FrostFallFox, if healing is your thing, don't let scrubs stopping you from doing what you want to do.

Healing is much harder than it looks and by far in my opinion the hardest role to play out of the three.
You have to be aware of everything (everyones positions including the NPC, as well as never taking your eyes off the health bars)

When I heal, I make sure to often cast my AOE and jump on the offense when it feels right.
How good the players you are playing with will dictate how much you can participate on the offense.

Two rules to never forget when healing:
1. Make sure you have a Heal Over Time on everybody at all time (this means casting Rapid Regen and Healing Springs A LOT and also pre fight)
2. If nobody need heals, don't heal... (other than making sure your HOT are up..)

But in general, nobody should give you crap because you are healing 90%+ of the time during a dungeon, that's your role. If they can't do enough DPS, they are the ones that are doing something wrong.

Your job is to heal and keep everyone alive.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone alive and running. A healer that doesn't focus on restoring magicka and stamina along with providing buffs to DPS is simply put: a bad healer.

Agree 100%.

ssewallb14_ESO · May 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

I answered yes, but keep in mind OP this is an MMO & it will always be the case. Also keep in mind my reason for stating this is simply because of the wait time.

However is it just healers? No Tanks as well...

I have not joined pug dungeons since WoW in 2014 I prefer a group of people I know. However my opinion remains the same since the experience comes from way before then.

All MMO's will do this simply because there will always be a 50-60% DPS population and about a 15-20% tank population and about a 20-25% healer population....

Keep in mind that sometimes templars don't heal nor tank even though they que as tanks...

Healers and tanks are in higher demand, but that doesnt mean they're privileged.
They have higher responsibility, for a common pug a situation where dds only pull 10-15k dps is normal, and those 10k at vr16 dont require any effort. But of course, those people expect healers to add dps (even if the dds require emergency heals every 0.5 seconds), to buff and to sustain their resources, or even to fill 2 roles at once (healtank). And if things go wrong, its always healer's or tank's fault, no doubt about that.
I wouldnt call that "privileged".

10-15k dps pugs? I consider that a decent group. Half of the people I get have under 15k health and hit under 5k.

driosketch · May 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

I'd love to do damage in random groups but, most of the time, it is one or two players who need "special treatment" (healing). Sometimes I can't even support stamina / magicka, because of players getting damaged under 50% hp constantly, even with the 3.5 HoT ticking...

So much this. Do not tell me I have to put out a certain amount of damage, when 5 seconds after I swap bars, someone is cross up. :P

FrostFallFox · May 2016

@sluice Thanks honey bunches

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

Valrien wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

As much as a good healer will make a team better.
A crappy team can make the healer look like $hit.

@FrostFallFox, if healing is your thing, don't let scrubs stopping you from doing what you want to do.

Healing is much harder than it looks and by far in my opinion the hardest role to play out of the three.
You have to be aware of everything (everyones positions including the NPC, as well as never taking your eyes off the health bars)

When I heal, I make sure to often cast my AOE and jump on the offense when it feels right.
How good the players you are playing with will dictate how much you can participate on the offense.

Two rules to never forget when healing:
1. Make sure you have a Heal Over Time on everybody at all time (this means casting Rapid Regen and Healing Springs A LOT and also pre fight)
2. If nobody need heals, don't heal... (other than making sure your HOT are up..)

But in general, nobody should give you crap because you are healing 90%+ of the time during a dungeon, that's your role. If they can't do enough DPS, they are the ones that are doing something wrong.

Your job is to heal and keep everyone alive.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone alive and running. A healer that doesn't focus on restoring magicka and stamina along with providing buffs to DPS is simply put: a bad healer.

Perhaps. But in every pug group i have ever been in, pretty much one thing holds true. If everyone would just do the job they queued for and do a decent job we would finish 95% of all 4 man dungeons vet and non with no real issue.

I tell this to my running mate most of the time when they complain. The tank isnt doing anything, the healer is just standing there... Is the boss on the tank? Yes? Then let the tank be. Is everyone alive and not near death? Yes? Then leave the healer be. Would perhaps things speed up a minute or two if they did something? Maybe. But just do your role and do it decent and we will all get through this no mess.

Kozai · May 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

The thing i like about pug healing is that they NEED healing. Sounds strange i suppose. But really i rolled my templar to heal. Not be an over blown dps that can heal. And in most pugs there isnt a whole lot of time for dps when people cant get out of the red crap.

I know what you mean, I've found PUGing with my healer to be a much better test of my build than just playing with my 3 other friends all the time. In a poor PUG, I'm forced to learn the dungeon mechanics better, because I'll be seeing more of them with 5 minute boss fights and I'll have to be more careful about my resource use. Mind you, I would also say around a third of PUGs are better than my normal group, a couple of my friends are not particularly awesome players, so I learn something from those about why some people say dungeons are too easy. They are if you play exclusively with the top 10% of players.

Plus I get good stories out of it, like the tank who didn't have taunt, because "sword and shield is boring, I'm waiting for the ranged taunt". And the other one who signed up as tank, but used only heavy staff attacks from the rear of the party and a few self buffs, and never replied to anything in chat. So I sometimes get to see a fair amount of boss mechanics, up close and personal.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

No

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

I answered yes, but keep in mind OP this is an MMO & it will always be the case. Also keep in mind my reason for stating this is simply because of the wait time.

However is it just healers? No Tanks as well...

I have not joined pug dungeons since WoW in 2014 I prefer a group of people I know. However my opinion remains the same since the experience comes from way before then.

All MMO's will do this simply because there will always be a 50-60% DPS population and about a 15-20% tank population and about a 20-25% healer population....

Keep in mind that sometimes templars don't heal nor tank even though they que as tanks...

Healers and tanks are in higher demand, but that doesnt mean they're privileged.
They have higher responsibility, for a common pug a situation where dds only pull 10-15k dps is normal, and those 10k at vr16 dont require any effort. But of course, those people expect healers to add dps (even if the dds require emergency heals every 0.5 seconds), to buff and to sustain their resources, or even to fill 2 roles at once (healtank). And if things go wrong, its always healer's or tank's fault, no doubt about that.
I wouldnt call that "privileged".

10-15k dps pugs? I consider that a decent group. Half of the people I get have under 15k health and hit under 5k.

My point still stays: most of "dds" dont put any effort in pulling any decent numbers, but they expect the best from support classes. To me, its very hypocritical. If they "play as they want", and hate "meta builds", why do they expect their healers to have decked out minmaxed build and excellent skills?

Shunravi · May 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

I answered yes, but keep in mind OP this is an MMO & it will always be the case. Also keep in mind my reason for stating this is simply because of the wait time.

However is it just healers? No Tanks as well...

I have not joined pug dungeons since WoW in 2014 I prefer a group of people I know. However my opinion remains the same since the experience comes from way before then.

All MMO's will do this simply because there will always be a 50-60% DPS population and about a 15-20% tank population and about a 20-25% healer population....

Keep in mind that sometimes templars don't heal nor tank even though they que as tanks...

Healers and tanks are in higher demand, but that doesnt mean they're privileged.
They have higher responsibility, for a common pug a situation where dds only pull 10-15k dps is normal, and those 10k at vr16 dont require any effort. But of course, those people expect healers to add dps (even if the dds require emergency heals every 0.5 seconds), to buff and to sustain their resources, or even to fill 2 roles at once (healtank). And if things go wrong, its always healer's or tank's fault, no doubt about that.
I wouldnt call that "privileged".

10-15k dps pugs? I consider that a decent group. Half of the people I get have under 15k health and hit under 5k.

My point still stays: most of "dds" dont put any effort in pulling any decent numbers, but they expect the best from support classes. To me, its very hypocritical. If they "play as they want", and hate "meta builds", why do they expect their healers to have decked out minmaxed build and excellent skills?

Yes! So much this!

idk · May 2016

Eh, it depends.

Not certain what OP means by priveledged. Yes a healer is needed and if it's a decent group heals are not needed much so the healer needs to pump out dps.

Only time I've had a complaint in line with the OP's experience was vCoH on my Sorc with a pug. They complained about my dps during the last fight. Thing is when I heal it on my Templar with my guildies I don't dps during the first phase. We already need to stop dos early to wait for second set of adds.

So in reality, that pug group had really lame dos to start with. I was polite and didn't call them out on it.

With that, I pugged WGT twice and never again. Only run that with guildiies now.

Teridaxus · May 2016

I expected another cry thread where dps complain about their long times compared to healers...

Jay_Gally · May 2016

Yes

The healer rarely get's a "thatta boy" but always gets a wtf when the knuckle dragging dps stand in the red circles. I started as a dps but have since played a healer. It has since improved my resource mngt and location within dungeons and even pvp. We're the reason the glass cannons live another day to spam wrecking blow.