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Why NB's are OP in 1 picture
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Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Sure, but last time I checked shuffle didn't give
Restoration to magicka over 6 seconds
Increased critical strike
Increased spell crit
Increased critical strike damage by 10%
The point? You said only NB had access to major evasion, thats just LOL.
The worst part is, blur is worthless compared to shuffle even for magica builds. So.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The point? You said only NB had access to major evasion, thats just LOL.
Obviously meaning through class skills.Edited by Jules on May 15, 2016 9:38PM1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Jules
I don't know why you include Major berserk in sorcerer abilities, a sorcerer can't get this under any circumstance. It's a buff they can provide to the group only, through synergy, and it will never apply to themselves. You said in a later post (which I'm not going to find right now just to post) that you didn't include group abilities; so you should remove Major berserk from sorc buffs, since we can't ever have it and can only provide it to the group.
Yeah, I will. I recently realized that it only applies to the dmg of the Atro and the allies.0 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
If a nightblade can use one skill to get 3 major buffs, where other classes need one skill for two of them, then one very particular skill for the 3rd, or that nightblades are so rewarded for using their own skill lines. Tell me, how many nb builds have a majority skills coming from their own class and how many other class builds even come close? Why pick a class if you are just going to use non-class skills?3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.1 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
If a nightblade can use one skill to get 3 major buffs, where other classes need one skill for two of them, then one very particular skill for the 3rd, or that nightblades are so rewarded for using their own skill lines. Tell me, how many nb builds have a majority skills coming from their own class and how many other class builds even come close? Why pick a class if you are just going to use non-class skills?
"Diversity". Theres your answear.2 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK...
*weeeer* wheres my nb stam dots *WEEEEEER*. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
I dont think you understand the concept of diversity between classes.
Edited by nordickittyhawk on May 15, 2016 10:10PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
If a nightblade can use one skill to get 3 major buffs, where other classes need one skill for two of them, then one very particular skill for the 3rd, or that nightblades are so rewarded for using their own skill lines. Tell me, how many nb builds have a majority skills coming from their own class and how many other class builds even come close? Why pick a class if you are just going to use non-class skills?
Radiant Aura gives you 6(!!!) buffs with one cast.
Minor Fortitude, Minor Endurance, Minor Intellect, Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, Major Intellect
Nerf Radiant Aura, Nerf Templars.
QQ
Oh my god... they have another: Restoring Focus (Major Ward, Major Resolve, Minor Vitality, Minor Protection) - nerf plsEdited by DDuke on May 15, 2016 10:13PM5 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Edited by Jules on May 15, 2016 10:17PM1 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
If a nightblade can use one skill to get 3 major buffs, where other classes need one skill for two of them, then one very particular skill for the 3rd, or that nightblades are so rewarded for using their own skill lines. Tell me, how many nb builds have a majority skills coming from their own class and how many other class builds even come close? Why pick a class if you are just going to use non-class skills?
Nightblade isn't the only class with skills that give 3 buffs at once, obviously not the exact same buffs or ZOS could already delete 3 classes and it would be the same. Also I often see templars/DKs with more class skills slotted than any NB build I use, does it make templars/DK OP?
"Why pick a class if you are just going to use non-class skills?" Did I say you shouldnt play with any class skills? Just for example, Sorc in 1.6 was the magicka build with the less class skills slotted, yet many were arguing it was the best magicka class back then. In all honnesty this kind of post makes me wonder if you have any clue how the game works...Edited by Erondil on May 15, 2016 10:38PM~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel3 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
Ah alright so you need a particular weapon to use shuffle, got it now......................~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
Ah alright so you need a particular weapon to use shuffle, got it now......................
Lol. So yeah, no comeback to the logic of ambush vs weapon lines I wrote. Just bad jokes. Got it.0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)
Only reason they aren't used in pvp now is because they weren't scaling properly with mighty. A lot of them were magic damage. That all changes with DB.
But that's ok tho, bc nightblades got FOUR SKILL MORPHS changed this patch to scale nicely with mighty. So if you think that ppl won't run incap strike in pvp next patch, which you can deal 15k damage and deal every 15s maximum while in combat, I'm going to literally laugh at you. If you think people won't run power extraction, which gives major brutality and is disease damage so they can apply instant cast AOE health debuff, I'm going to laugh at you. Literally, look at everything you have and tell me you need more. You are seriously delusional.0 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting. Never seen a laid out like this so thank you again for bringing to light the intricacies so commonly overlooked in the game Jules1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)
Only reason they aren't used in pvp now is because they weren't scaling properly with mighty. A lot of them were magic damage. That all changes with DB.
But that's ok tho, bc nightblades got FOUR SKILL MORPHS changed this patch to scale nicely with mighty. So if you think that ppl won't run incap strike in pvp next patch, which you can deal 15k damage and deal every 15s maximum while in combat, I'm going to literally laugh at you. If you think people won't run power extraction, which gives major brutality and is disease damage so they can apply instant cast AOE health debuff, I'm going to laugh at you. Literally, look at everything you have and tell me you need more. You are seriously delusional.
Sorry, but no one is going to slot a skill that makes a difference only below 25%. PvP isn't slow enough for that.
And no good player is going to slot Power Extraction over Steel Tornado, especially when you can combo the latter with Dawnbreaker of Smiting, which is much better than Incapacitating Strike.
You can laugh at me all you want, but one of us actually plays a stamina nightblade.2 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Yes nightblades do have all those things. You know why?! because its a rouge class.
You dont see anyone else making posts about how the templar has too many magic abilitys and heals.
Have you played any other MMOS? last i checked this is something so common around a rouge class everything you mentioned there... is pretty much in any other MMO.
There are so many people on this post calling you out on this post and saying you are wrong yet you refuse to think out side the box. Clearly you dont like NBs... we get it and we dont care.
1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)
Only reason they aren't used in pvp now is because they weren't scaling properly with mighty. A lot of them were magic damage. That all changes with DB.
But that's ok tho, bc nightblades got FOUR SKILL MORPHS changed this patch to scale nicely with mighty. So if you think that ppl won't run incap strike in pvp next patch, which you can deal 15k damage and deal every 15s maximum while in combat, I'm going to literally laugh at you. If you think people won't run power extraction, which gives major brutality and is disease damage so they can apply instant cast AOE health debuff, I'm going to laugh at you. Literally, look at everything you have and tell me you need more. You are seriously delusional.
Sorry, but no one is going to slot a skill that makes a difference only below 25%. PvP isn't slow enough for that.
And no good player is going to slot Power Extraction over Steel Tornado, especially when you can combo the latter with Dawnbreaker of Smiting, which is much better than Incapacitating Strike.
You can laugh at me all you want, but one of us actually plays a stamina nightblade.
I'll actually have my NBs run both.
It has nothing to do with her original argument though. Just moving goalposts without addressing the larger issues like lack of self heals and good defensive abilities.Edited by Satiar on May 15, 2016 10:33PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)
@DDuke he is right... full on right.1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Yes nightblades do have all those things. You know why?! because its a rouge class.
You dont see anyone else making posts about how the templar has too many magic abilitys and heals.
Have you played any other MMOS? last i checked this is something so common around a rouge class everything you mentioned there... is pretty much in any other MMO.
There are so many people on this post calling you out on this post and saying you are wrong yet you refuse to think out side the box. Clearly you dont like NBs... we get it and we dont care.
It isn't about liking nightblades. It isn't about personal preference. It's about one class having the accessibility to stamina skills and major/minor buffs way way way above that of what the others have access to.
And it doesn't matter how many people can "call me out" and say I'm wrong. Take a poll bro. I guarantee you 80%+ of those people on this thread are nightblades who dont want to get nerfed.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
I mean... templars have a spamable called jabs... yeah its a channel but its also conal. If you wanna talk about what classes have and what others dont. I dont see any stamina class dots on anything but a DK... weeeer wheres my nb stam dots WEEEEEER. better go make a post how classes are not the same.
This is a post you cant win jules.
If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
Dks:
An ultimate
2 dots
Templars:
A cc
An aoe
Sorcs:
A buff
An aoe
The fact that you would even have the audacity to propose that that's balanced is literally mind boggling.
Edit: I understand diversity just fine which I why I think classes like stam dk and stam Templar both have their own separate strengths and weaknesses but they off set one another. One has these things, the other has these. It's a balance despite them being different. With nb it is not a balance. It is, you guys have literally everything besides major mending and the rest of us have weapon lines to buff our largely incomplete classes.
Yeah? Go play the class that gets zero functional defensive abilities from their class (stam Nightblade) and then come back. You only listed the offensive abilities of each class (to fit your argument), and even of those only the following are used in PvP:
Surprise Attack
Ambush
(Relentless Focus)
In PvE:
Killer's Blade
(Relentless Focus)
Only reason they aren't used in pvp now is because they weren't scaling properly with mighty. A lot of them were magic damage. That all changes with DB.
But that's ok tho, bc nightblades got FOUR SKILL MORPHS changed this patch to scale nicely with mighty. So if you think that ppl won't run incap strike in pvp next patch, which you can deal 15k damage and deal every 15s maximum while in combat, I'm going to literally laugh at you. If you think people won't run power extraction, which gives major brutality and is disease damage so they can apply instant cast AOE health debuff, I'm going to laugh at you. Literally, look at everything you have and tell me you need more. You are seriously delusional.
Sorry, but no one is going to slot a skill that makes a difference only below 25%. PvP isn't slow enough for that.
And no good player is going to slot Power Extraction over Steel Tornado, especially when you can combo the latter with Dawnbreaker of Smiting, which is much better than Incapacitating Strike.
You can laugh at me all you want, but one of us actually plays a stamina nightblade.
I'll actually a Nightblade run both.
It has nothing to do with her original argument though. Just moving goalposts without addressing the larger issues like lack of self heals and good defensive abilities.
Well, maybe you'll prove me wrong about those skills - who knows - I'm not too optimistic :P0 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
Ah alright so you need a particular weapon to use shuffle, got it now......................
Lol. So yeah, no comeback to the logic of ambush vs weapon lines I wrote. Just bad jokes. Got it.
You started to talk about how strong it is for NB to be the only one having access to major evasion from a class skill, I answer you it doesnt matter much because anybody can use shuffle and you really think you gonna get away by saying "because it allows them to choose their weapons"? XD
Also ambush is not that great of an example for the point you're trying to make, except dual wield every melee weapon got a gap closer (and next patch you have a non-weapon based gap closer available) and most of non-nb dual wield builds are using 2h or sb as secondary weapon for rally or tankiness so even if they want to dps with dw they can slot a stamina gap closer. Ambush is certainly a very good skill eh, but stam dk is the only one with class reflect, dots and stam templar the only one with a purge, a ranged cc...~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Jules...we all know that this is a trend, not a final statement from ZOS. They have been taking their sweet ass time bringing Stamina builds up to where Magicka has always been. But this is something that's ongoing. It's coming to the other 3 classes. RIGHT NOW Stamblades have 3 morphs vs. the 2 the other classes have. We should be celebrating the pro-stamina changes and recognize where this is going, instead of crying for nerfs to a while class.If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
The fact that Nightblades have a lot of options in an interesting observation, but nothing more. Especially when those "options" that you argue make the NB so OP, are not better than, in some cases worse than alternatives that everyone has access to. It's as simple as this... NBs have the best burst damage potential (in certain situations). THATS IT. NBs are not the best at, nor have the most of, anything else. Many, have pointed this out, with valid examples, which you've consistently ignored.
Maybe you should reevaluate who is resistant to logic. Browse back through this thread. Instead of rebuttals, you have dismissed well thought out points with comments like "...you just don't know how to read."2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
Ah alright so you need a particular weapon to use shuffle, got it now......................
Lol. So yeah, no comeback to the logic of ambush vs weapon lines I wrote. Just bad jokes. Got it.
You started to talk about how strong it is for NB to be the only one having access to major evasion from a class skill, I answer you it doesnt matter much because anybody can use shuffle and you really think you gonna get away by saying "because it allows them to choose their weapons"? XD
Also ambush is not that great of an example for the point you're trying to make, except dual wield every melee weapon got a gap closer (and next patch you have a non-weapon based gap closer available) and most of non-nb dual wield builds are using 2h or sb as secondary weapon for rally or tankiness so even if they want to dps with dw they can slot a stamina gap closer. Ambush is certainly a very good skill eh, but stam dk is the only one with class reflect, dots and stam templar the only one with a purge, a ranged cc...
Weapons, armor lines, world lines. It's all the same concept. But you already knew that.0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Again all this back and forth about skills, buffs, and a whole host of theoretical crap! In the real world, you make your superstar NB build, put it in the hand of the best player you know, and send it against Mojican or any similar spec'd templar for that matter. Then lets all discuss the meaning of "overpowered".
And don't take it from me. Let that red beady-eyed elf Mojican come into this thread and explain. I know you're out there Mojican! I know you're there watching, reading, listening in! Stop being coy! You want a piece of me!!!! COME IN HERE AND GET ME!0 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭@The_Outsider
Thank you mr outsider.The_Outsider wrote: »
Jules...we all know that this is a trend, not a final statement from ZOS. They have been taking their sweet ass time bringing Stamina builds up to where Magicka has always been. But this is something that's ongoing. It's coming to the other 3 classes. RIGHT NOW Stamblades have 3 morphs vs. the 2 the other classes have. We should be celebrating the pro-stamina changes and recognize where this is going, instead of crying for nerfs to a while class.If I can't win its not because I'm not right as much as it is that you are resistant to logic and/or you just don't know how to read.
Within nb class lines, for stam option skills they have:
An AOE
A single target
An ultimate
A gap closer
An execute
A buff that is also a damage proc
The fact that Nightblades have a lot of options in an interesting observation, but nothing more. Especially when those "options" that you argue make the NB so OP, are not better than, in some cases worse than alternatives that everyone has access to. It's as simple as this... NBs have the best burst damage potential (in certain situations). THATS IT. NBs are not the best at, nor have the most of, anything else. Many, have pointed this out, with valid examples, which you've consistently ignored.
Maybe you should reevaluate who is resistant to logic. Browse back through this thread. Instead of rebuttals, you have dismissed well thought out points with comments like "...you just don't know how to read."
1 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And what does it change that only one class got a way to gain major evasion from his class specific trees, if others can get the very same buff easily aswell? Its simply irrelevant in a game where you can pick from various skill lines and not only the class specific ones. Thats why I think a list of minor/major buffs each class cannot get by any way would be much more interesting, but it would certainly require a lot more work.
People keep acting like, "well you can just run weapon skills, so what does it matter, we get the same buff!"
I'll tell you exactly why it matters.
It's very relevant when 1 class gets options for these buffs through their class skills. Why? Because it allows for them to choose their weapons based on what they want to run instead of what they need to run.
A good example of this is NB's having ambush. A gap closer is fairly necessary for every person in Cyrodiil. So where as nb can look at the weapon lines and say, should I run DW for more damage? Or s&b for more tankiness, or 2h for rally? They always have that very viable class gap closer (ambush) which allows them to be more creative with their builds. Same goes for their single target. Other classes would kill for a stamina instant cast single target. Nb is the only class in the game that has these things at their disposal right within their class so of course that is fairly imbalanced.
Ah alright so you need a particular weapon to use shuffle, got it now......................
Lol. So yeah, no comeback to the logic of ambush vs weapon lines I wrote. Just bad jokes. Got it.
You started to talk about how strong it is for NB to be the only one having access to major evasion from a class skill, I answer you it doesnt matter much because anybody can use shuffle and you really think you gonna get away by saying "because it allows them to choose their weapons"? XD
Also ambush is not that great of an example for the point you're trying to make, except dual wield every melee weapon got a gap closer (and next patch you have a non-weapon based gap closer available) and most of non-nb dual wield builds are using 2h or sb as secondary weapon for rally or tankiness so even if they want to dps with dw they can slot a stamina gap closer. Ambush is certainly a very good skill eh, but stam dk is the only one with class reflect, dots and stam templar the only one with a purge, a ranged cc...
Weapons, armor lines, world lines. It's all the same concept. But you already knew that.
How is it the same concept? You dont need to give up anything to slot a non weapon/class skill. You dont need to make any sacrifice (except a skill slot ofc) to run shuffle.~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tbh I don't even know why I care. Debating class and skill balance is pointless when half the time in Cyrodiil you can't even use your skills.0