Sausage wrote: »

You sound like a casual, I believe Crown Shop was the solution to it, if one cant play enough or is simply lacker, you gotta pay.

apparently I'm a toxic elitist god knows maybe I'm toaster kin

Sausage wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

You sound like a casual, I believe Crown Shop was the solution to it, if one cant play enough or is simply lacker, you gotta pay.

apparently I'm a toxic elitist god knows maybe I'm toaster kin

Elitist? Im far from elite, but I love the game and play it alot more than most people do. Casual vs Loyal/HC player is massive issue in the genre and ESO is trying to fix it with Crown Shop, for example, motifs, you can grind weeks or then just buy from the shop.

the day the gear I'm talking about is in the crown store is the day the game has jumped the p2w shark and I'll be out

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

You sound like a casual, I believe Crown Shop was the solution to it, if one cant play enough or is simply lacker, you gotta pay.

apparently I'm a toxic elitist god knows maybe I'm toaster kin

Elitist? Im far from elite, but I love the game and play it alot more than most people do. Casual vs Loyal/HC player is massive issue in the genre and ESO is trying to fix it with Crown Shop, for example, motifs, you can grind weeks or then just buy from the shop.

the day the gear I'm talking about is in the crown store is the day the game has jumped the p2w shark and I'll be out

They are already selling CP-boosters and CP-system gives huge advantage?

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.

If everything was easy there would be no sense of accomplishment if you got everything you wanted without any of the work the game would get very dull very quickly.

Would you work in a career your whole life with a real prospect of never being paid?

Working for something is one thing... but hard work should be rewarded and there is a real possibility with RNG that you could grind vmsa for example forever and NEVER recieve the weapon you want. When someone else can do one run and get rhe weapon first go.

Wtf is wrong with you idiots who use the 'work for it' argument?

The current system has nothing to do with 'work for reward' and everything to do with randomness.

How is one persons 50 hours of work for no reward equal to another persons 1 hour of work for the percect reward?

Again....^^^^ that is a real possibility!

It doesnt have to be 'easy'. But there has to be a goal. Something to actually work towards.

Stop bloody saying 'work for it' you sound *** rediculous.

Just cause we have our gears and got lucky (regardless of how many runs we did it is still about 100% luck) that doesnt give us the right to *** that we worked for it and the same system needs to be forced on everyone else.

PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE GAME BECAUSE OF THIS ***!

It needs to be changed!

TOKEN SYSTEM

RNGesus how hard is it zos my god.

Sorry but that's an awful analogy, it isn't about being paid it's about achieving something or attaining something that is not guaranteed, lots of people work in careers like science hoping to discover or come up with a result and never get to see it.

It's a sad fact of life some people get what they want and others just spend their time moaning about how unfair life is.

so your advocating things remain that way at least in game? why?

I've wanted the Maelstrom bow for so long, always get something else, yes I like a system where there are no guarantees, I guess I like the buzz of never knowing what you'll win next.

Plus if everyone is running around with the same items on certain builds it takes away the rarity of owning that item, I guess in some respects it may be an ego thing.

I guess after playing other games where everyone is running around in the same gear and same weapons and skills, ESO was a refreshing change to a certain degree. Even if there are thousands of chosen ones in the game.

For me personally, it's the journey, not the destination that I find I get most of my enjoyment from.

It is a shame that we all can't have the game we like, that caters to each individual's idea of what they like best in a game. It can be frustrating but it can also be very rewarding for those that do have to put in more time and effort.

I wonder how many people have got the item they wanted since this thread went up?

I got the staff I wanted but feeling forced to do it has put me off running that place for a good long while. as I said a few friends are over 200 runs without the gear they want to min max thier builds and some are now playing games like bdo and destiny. I'm not saying everyone should be handed BIS it should be gated behind a challenge not behind multiple layers of RNG.
still no scathing gloves or divines heavy helm I want.

Sausage wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

You sound like a casual, I believe Crown Shop was the solution to it, if one cant play enough or is simply lacker, you gotta pay.

apparently I'm a toxic elitist god knows maybe I'm toaster kin

Elitist? Im far from elite, but I love the game and play it alot more than most people do. Casual vs Loyal/HC player is massive issue in the genre and ESO is trying to fix it with Crown Shop, for example, motifs, you can grind weeks or then just buy from the shop.

the day the gear I'm talking about is in the crown store is the day the game has jumped the p2w shark and I'll be out

They are already selling CP-boosters and CP-system gives huge advantage?

not the same you dont have do complete hard content to gain cp and its really easy to come by.

Yeah, but you gotta give something good to players or they wont do it, just need to hope Zen understand it and get it right. Games needs cosmetic endgame progression so no-one will be pissed off.

not sure how that relates to your crown store comment?

lathbury wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.

If everything was easy there would be no sense of accomplishment if you got everything you wanted without any of the work the game would get very dull very quickly.

Would you work in a career your whole life with a real prospect of never being paid?

Working for something is one thing... but hard work should be rewarded and there is a real possibility with RNG that you could grind vmsa for example forever and NEVER recieve the weapon you want. When someone else can do one run and get rhe weapon first go.

Wtf is wrong with you idiots who use the 'work for it' argument?

The current system has nothing to do with 'work for reward' and everything to do with randomness.

How is one persons 50 hours of work for no reward equal to another persons 1 hour of work for the percect reward?

Again....^^^^ that is a real possibility!

It doesnt have to be 'easy'. But there has to be a goal. Something to actually work towards.

Stop bloody saying 'work for it' you sound *** rediculous.

Just cause we have our gears and got lucky (regardless of how many runs we did it is still about 100% luck) that doesnt give us the right to *** that we worked for it and the same system needs to be forced on everyone else.

PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE GAME BECAUSE OF THIS ***!

It needs to be changed!

TOKEN SYSTEM

RNGesus how hard is it zos my god.

Sorry but that's an awful analogy, it isn't about being paid it's about achieving something or attaining something that is not guaranteed, lots of people work in careers like science hoping to discover or come up with a result and never get to see it.

It's a sad fact of life some people get what they want and others just spend their time moaning about how unfair life is.

so your advocating things remain that way at least in game? why?

I've wanted the Maelstrom bow for so long, always get something else, yes I like a system where there are no guarantees, I guess I like the buzz of never knowing what you'll win next.

Plus if everyone is running around with the same items on certain builds it takes away the rarity of owning that item, I guess in some respects it may be an ego thing.

I guess after playing other games where everyone is running around in the same gear and same weapons and skills, ESO was a refreshing change to a certain degree. Even if there are thousands of chosen ones in the game.

For me personally, it's the journey, not the destination that I find I get most of my enjoyment from.

It is a shame that we all can't have the game we like, that caters to each individual's idea of what they like best in a game. It can be frustrating but it can also be very rewarding for those that do have to put in more time and effort.

I wonder how many people have got the item they wanted since this thread went up?

I got the staff I wanted but feeling forced to do it has put me off running that place for a good long while. as I said a few friends are over 200 runs without the gear they want to min max thier builds and some are now playing games like bdo and destiny. I'm not saying everyone should be handed BIS it should be gated behind a challenge not behind multiple layers of RNG.
still no scathing gloves or divines heavy helm I want.

Well in the end, no matter what Zos do there will always be a group of people that are disappointed and will want change and that to a certain degree is a good thing as the game will always be changing.

I like the RNG system it's by no means perfect, no system will ever be perfect.

I would say and this isn't a criticism that the game doesn't make you feel forced to do anything, we do that to ourselves we read or get told of a build and we hype ourselves up and we just have to have it, then when the dice doesn't go our way some give up, some get angry and some just accept it and try for something else, we are all different.

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.

If everything was easy there would be no sense of accomplishment if you got everything you wanted without any of the work the game would get very dull very quickly.

Would you work in a career your whole life with a real prospect of never being paid?

Working for something is one thing... but hard work should be rewarded and there is a real possibility with RNG that you could grind vmsa for example forever and NEVER recieve the weapon you want. When someone else can do one run and get rhe weapon first go.

Wtf is wrong with you idiots who use the 'work for it' argument?

The current system has nothing to do with 'work for reward' and everything to do with randomness.

How is one persons 50 hours of work for no reward equal to another persons 1 hour of work for the percect reward?

Again....^^^^ that is a real possibility!

It doesnt have to be 'easy'. But there has to be a goal. Something to actually work towards.

Stop bloody saying 'work for it' you sound *** rediculous.

Just cause we have our gears and got lucky (regardless of how many runs we did it is still about 100% luck) that doesnt give us the right to *** that we worked for it and the same system needs to be forced on everyone else.

PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE GAME BECAUSE OF THIS ***!

It needs to be changed!

TOKEN SYSTEM

RNGesus how hard is it zos my god.

Sorry but that's an awful analogy, it isn't about being paid it's about achieving something or attaining something that is not guaranteed, lots of people work in careers like science hoping to discover or come up with a result and never get to see it.

It's a sad fact of life some people get what they want and others just spend their time moaning about how unfair life is.

so your advocating things remain that way at least in game? why?

I've wanted the Maelstrom bow for so long, always get something else, yes I like a system where there are no guarantees, I guess I like the buzz of never knowing what you'll win next it's like a daily lottery one person get's the reward they want the rest of us have to run it again.

Plus if everyone is running around with the same items on certain builds it takes away the rarity of owning that item, I guess in some respects it may be an ego thing.

I guess after playing other games where everyone is running around in the same gear and same weapons and skills, ESO was a refreshing change to a certain degree. Even if there are thousands of chosen ones in the game.

Just from my experience in WoW - not everyone was running around in Mythic raid gear. That *** was rare. Not because it had a 0.001% drop chance in faceroll content but because it had 10-20% drop chance in f... difficult content. As far as loot systems go, I prefer that option.

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

Surely the RNG thing is the same for everybody?? No one has any advantage over others other than time??

Players aren't lucky, it's all subjective.

yes and time is finite some will get stuff early others never wil.l those that never get it will become disillusioned and leave. nobody sane wants to do hundreds of runs to finish their builds 100 fine but 200 for 1 piece of an endgame build is excessive.
not to mention how can we test alternatives to the meta do another 1000 runs to get a full new set of gear each time?

nimander99 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you were going to say people complaining about lag on the forums...

No thats been done its a feature now. The other day my internet was down so I put my skryim screenshots on powerpoint and had better frames than azura.

There are usually three type of traditionnal MMO expansion:

1. The progression one : Heavily focus on trial, raid and hard progression system to answer to raiders
2. The group progression one: Usually creates mechanics to helps non-raiding player to catch up with raiders thoses expansion usually relly on a lot of dongeon and token system.
3. The Lore one Usually expansion which include new class/new race/ or new type of ability that are also offering new leveling environnement and fun activity.

Those three types of expansion are usually appearing one after the other in a variable manners. Most of the time progression one are launch less often then the other two. They usually gives player stuff to work on during a very long time, while group progression ones appear when the core player need to be upgraded. Most expansion not being focus on a single aspect only.

ESO did follow the same progression:

Craglorn (Progression)
IC (group progression and pvp system (no real lore there))
Orisinium (lore)
Thives guild (lore)
DarkBrotherhood (lore)

Next expansion we do need group progression that's for sure. Also we will need a revamp on dongeon orientation. I think the game has enough dongeon so that some specific items set could drop from more dongeon (like first zone dongeon drop this set, second zone theese set, third zone etc. and so forth so one). First zone could be max 14, second 15 and third and up they are all 160cp gear.

We need to also feel the importance of gear progression, I made a post recently about the difference in term of dps inbetween a Scathing mage set with 3 moondancer and a Julianos Set with Willpower to realise that the Scathing mage setup was probably going to give me 5% more overall dps and while this is alright. A difference of 100cp inbetween me and an other player would probably gives the player with a 100cp more 5% more dps over over the dude with the best set in game. That calculation also supposed Scathing mage was always up.

So there's really Something that needs to be done around that specific aspect in order to really create better appreciation of the ingame progression. Either gives Scathing mage like 50% chance to proc from crit (which mostly mean always up) but lower the overall spell domage and give the set a cool effect of like gives 129 spell/weapon power to 4 player a bit as spell power-cure does that way Scathing mage isn't only best in slot dps for one player but also for all his group, that would be nice if you don't want to get some freaky high difference in between player bring more utility to some of the set as you did with tank and healer set in icp, do the same for dps I'm pretty sure noone will care and it will only bring more interest for player to run hard content and good player will not only be good but also bring there hole group at an other level which can be more interesting sometime.

...

I think they should make CP points based on RNG

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

TheUrbanWizard wrote: »

Surely the RNG thing is the same for everybody?? No one has any advantage over others other than time??

Youre thinking of a non-rng system where rewards are proportional to time intested. In an RNG based reward system players very often dont get rewards proportional to time invested. Some get rewarded for an hour of work, others have to invest 50+ hours for the same rewards, some dont get anything at all after 100h. The system is inherently unfair and by its very design guarantees some people will get rewarded for little to no effort while others wont get rewards despite working their butts off. Those are extreme ends of the spectrum ofcourse but given a big enough sample size there will be hundreds or thousands people like that.

You are right in a way tho. The system isnt biased against anyone in particular. Its 'nothing personal'. Like IRL: you get an average life, you get an average life, and you and you, you get a winning lottery ticket and you get cancer and die at 30. Someone is bound to get royally screwed over and I dont think thats a good design for a game reward system.

couldnt have said it better

ADarklore wrote: »

Funny hearing the talk about lack of player retention when the Wailing Prison was SWARMING with players last night... took forever to level my new character to level six because of so many players killing NPCs there. In the past week I've created and deleted a few characters trying different appearances and each time the Wailing Prison had a LOT of players- no matter what time of day; questing zones are full, etc. Sure maybe some of them are new players who won't stick around, but I think many of them are existing players creating alts... which tells me retention is just fine.

the wailing prison being full is not a good indicator of player retention you say you think they may be people creating alts they very well may also be new players

need a big mac at least first I have class

lathbury wrote: »

well as an update another 3 players in my endgame guild are now playing other games because of this excessive RNG

If "Your Guild Members" would have gotten the gear on the first run they would have left anyway out of being bored.


I have had over 40+ players on my friends list leave over No text chat and the broken CP system. Now those are things to actually leave the game over.. Leaving over not getting gear easily is certainly NOT and it makes you look like a spoiled baby.