"Casual gamer" - clarification required please

Hallothiel · May 2016

This may seem a stupid or provocative question, but it comes from a genuine need to know as it has been bugging me for sometime now just exactly what this means (am new to MMOs - does that make me one?)

It is a term that is bandied around and appears to be used mainly in a derogative manner / as an insult, as if such people do not have any right to play a game. Why? What do these "casuals" do that is so bad?

Please forgive my ignorance & explain.

Smileybones · May 2016

In the past, many MMO players were younger (read students or teenagers) and were "hardcore players". A casual gamer was looked down heavily.

Things have evolved and nowadays many older people that work do play games and there are more casual gamers ( people with limited playtime). The word is less an insult now, but in some people's mind it's still insulting.

What people need to understand is that people with limited playtime are a big part of playerbase now and this have many consequences.

lathbury · May 2016

for me the difference between a casual and hardcore player is the amount of timethey have to play. there are some very good casuals and some terrible hardcore ones.

Tavore1138 · May 2016

The reason the pros have issues with casuals is that they worry, with some justification, that if the game is tuned for the casual player then it will be too easy for them to find challenging. From a game makers POV the challenge then becomes finding content to make both sets happy....

This is further complicated by life just not being that simple and players actually being a wide range between casual and pro and everything in between so you have players who are not 'pro' but who can and do complete harder content so that they are not truly 'casual' either.

And making it even worse is that you have some players who play at a casual level but get upset if they can't complete all the content...

Basically it's people wanting the world to fit them and inevitably;y disagreeing over exactly how it should be and then labelling each other...

aldriq · May 2016

The problem with the word (like most social labels) is that it's OK to apply to yourself or people you know well, but problematic to throw around to people you don't know. I play 1 hour a day and I'm perfectly fine to consider myself casual, or being considered casual. But someone who has been playing 1 hour a day since the game was released might not be happy with the term. What if you are a very involved role-player? Rightly you won't see yourself as a casual. What if you are very good at PvE/dungeons but don't do PvP? Likewise. What if you only do PvP but haven't read a quest dialogue in your life? Likewise.

Agobi · May 2016

To me,a "casual" is simply someone who realizes there are more important things in life than what happens in a game

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

We "older folks" have been around since the first games.
We grew up through various stages of both technology and improved software.
I guess, it's "our thing", but many a youngling jump in.
Not bad, I think.

Differene between "hardcore" and "casuals" is not just the time one puts into a game, it also reflects on the mental institute of said player.
A "Hardcore" needs to have the very best at all times, while "Casuals" are happy whith much less gear.
Surely a "casual" can appreciate top gear, but he will not likely aim for it.
"Casuals" don't seem to think too deeply into builds, gear, respeccing, he only cares for fun.
And the clashes between both groups now resided a lot, but it could be hard at times.
Another class are role Players.
These give no dang about the previous and whatever they do, to them, it's their character, and it's environment.
And nothing else matters... according to Metallica.

strikeback1247 · May 2016

In my eyes a "casual" is someone with limited playtime. Nothing wrong with that.

A "filthy casual" is someone that lacks skill and/or playtime and wants to drastically simplify the game to compensate for that lack.

Aisle9 · May 2016

The less room for error you have, the more hardcore the content is. Imagine an encounter that can virtually oneshot you with every attack, does very fast attacks and you need to avoid/block every attack.

A hardcore player is usually someone that tries to min/max as much as possible and like to play "hard" content. The less unforgiving the content is, the better.

Not only toward PvE, the same can be said about PvP, just imagine 1vsX situations, without advantages...

I've heard about hardcore RP, but, meh, probably trolling...

From that perspective, everyone that can't compete with your HC level, is a casual, so, yes, it's usually a matter of perspective, because the simple way to put it is that a casual gamer is somebody who isn't a hardcore player.

To expand on that, casual gamers are usually people with very little time to play the game, so, less time to learn and practice enough to become hardcore. That is not always the truth, but, let's just generalize a little for the sake of argument.

You play an mmorpg to be the hero, so, if you don't have time to level up and get good at it you want to feel like a hero earlier on. For that reason, casual gamers are usually the people that push for "easier content".

Again, it's a generalization, and it's a matter of perspective, but, if you find the content easy and you would like it to be more challenging, you're probably a hardcore player.

If you find the content too hard and would like for it to be easier, because you don't have time to get good at it, chances are you're a casual gamer.

Also, note that to determine if it's used as a derogatory term, you have to examine the context. Most of the time it's only meant as an insult when followed by an invite to get better at it instead of complaining (e.g. "stfu skrub, l2p, u filthy casual"), otherwise it's just stating a fact.

TL;DR; - Casual players are those who play games that require a low level of commitment, or push for a game to reduce the level of commitment it requires, either for lack of time or skill.

Hope this helped.

vontariel · May 2016

For casuals skyrim is challenging.
For hardcore dark souls is challenging.

Difference between two groups is how they approach difficulty and challenges. If they try to find their way to pass it, spend time to learn mechanics and so on, they are much more hardcore players than someone with big amounts of time. Causal is more in lines of instant gratification, and easy without real challenge content.
Thing is, being good requires time, and it''s more difficult for people who have limited time to learn their ways around mechanics. And problem starts when games are dumbed down to the level that every one (let''s say magicka builds in heavy trying to ony use weapon skills) are supposed to beat it.

Necrelios · May 2016

Casual tends to refer to either one or both of two distinct and separate definitions, it can refer to ones playstyle, as in preferring casual content like crafting, roleplaying, etc, or they are simply not into the hardcore/hardmode content like ranked trials or arenas. Casual can also mean they simply have less time to play because they have obligations outside of gaming, which is the more commonly known definition.

FortheloveofKrist · May 2016

Casuals are better customers:

Less time on server
Spend more money to make up for time not spent on game
Less complaining on the forums
Don't look down their nose at other players

TheDarkShadow · May 2016

IMHO, Hardcore gamers are people who always looking for "the best". Best in slot gear, best dps, best build, fastest run, 1'st team beat new trial, best score on leaderboard, solo dungeons... They push themselves, and in many cases, people who they play with, hard, to achieve "the best", and don't accept anything lesser. They will grind thousands and thousands of mobs, hundreds and hundreds of dungeons, over and over again, just to get "the best thing". They will refuse to group with people who are "below" their standard because it would slow them down and can't get a "fast smooth perfect run". They lead group, raid, guild. They make min-max builds. They usually the 1st find out mechanic of a new boss...

Hardcore players find their fun in the result, not the journey.

Casual gamers are people who don't really care that much about "the best". They are not all "bad players". Some of them are very good at what they do. They just don't have that drive to get "the best" no matter what it take. They would rather wear craft gear than grind a dungeon 100 of times for 10%, even 20% more dps. They rather use their play time to do something they enjoy, be it roleplay, running dungeon with random, pvp, questing... than grinding for "the best".

Casual players find their fun in the journey, not the result.

lathbury · May 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Casuals are better customers:
Less time on server

Spend more money to make up for time not spent on game

Less complaining on the forums

Don't look down their nose at other players

id say the only part correct about that is the first point and the last point is contradicted by the tone of your post

ZOS_DaryaK · May 2016

We've removed a few posts that were inappropriate.

FortheloveofKrist · May 2016

lathbury wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

Casuals are better customers:
Less time on server

Spend more money to make up for time not spent on game

Less complaining on the forums

Don't look down their nose at other players

id say the only part correct about that is the first point and the last point is contradicted by the tone of your post

If you don't think casual players spend more money collectively and are therefore the more significant market in the eyes of the company, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

clayandaudrey_ESO · May 2016

Aisle9 wrote: »

TL;DR; - Casual players are those who play games that require a low level of commitment, or push for a game to reduce the level of commitment it requires, either for lack of time or skill.

Hope this helped.

This comment right here made your long post rubbish. This is a complete generalization.

Do you think it is only what you call casuals who pushed for the removal of vet ranks? I do not. I have seen so called hardcore players clamoring for this because they don't want to take the time it takes to get to the current max level. They want a quick fix to get to endgame with whatever is the FOTM.

It is sad that this word has gotten to same level in online gaming as other unacceptable derogatory words in society.

Elsonso · May 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Differene between "hardcore" and "casuals" is not just the time one puts into a game, it also reflects on the mental institute of said player.
A "Hardcore" needs to have the very best at all times, while "Casuals" are happy whith much less gear.
Surely a "casual" can appreciate top gear, but he will not likely aim for it.
"Casuals" don't seem to think too deeply into builds, gear, respeccing, he only cares for fun.

I think this sums it up, for me.

I think that ZOS would answer the question and say that "casual" is a statement of limited time available to play the game. I think that most of the people who work at ZOS fit that description, particularly the leadership.

So, I see many of the changes are being made so that this demographic can play ESO for 1 hour every week and not have to waste time farming, crafting, leveling, or whatever. They can just jump in and raid for that hour, then log off and help Suzie with her homework. (This is not an insult, it is a reference to a statement made in an ESO video last year)

When they have to farm/craft/equip, I think the goal is that they just run out into the field, or stop by a merchant, and get what they need. They are farming for themselves, so they only need what they can craft, and they don't have all day to do it.

This demographic is likely a middle aged professional with more money than time. They are probably an ESO Plus player, and they are probably people who spend Crowns on potions and food. They are ideal customers because they are likely to just subscribe to ESO Plus and let it run, and they will buy Crown Packs. The Crown Store provides them a way to connect to the game with pets and mounts, and also provides them with the crafting and food resources that they need.

So, I am pretty sure that, officially, "casual" is the "homework Dad" player with limited time who just wants to raid for an hour with friends. While I think this also includes a more laid-back approach how the game is played, I don't think ZOS adopts that extension.

Francescolg · May 2016

Hello TE, unfortunately I have no time to read all the posts, but here my thoughts on the term "casual gamer", which I use quiet frequently!

A casual gamer is not a all a bad player, just someone who plays more or less rarely, who does not watch hour-long video-descriptions of bosses / craglorn / etc.
A casual gamer is seldomly a crafter, as for dedicated crafting you need to be online "often enough", imho
A casual gamer does earn significantly less Gold in ESO (might be different in other games), as doing 2-3 hours of pledges or PvP gives you a very unsatisfying gold reward (you're lucky if you get more than 10k a day!)
In a better game, 'everything' you do in the game, will give you better gold, no matter if PvP/Leveling/small dungeons/larger dungeons/grinding/crafting/collecting -> In ESO, certain playstyles are not rewarded equally (that is why they introduced the CP cap, as some "playstyles" did significantly more CP!!)
Casual gamers are less "systematic", that means they do not play so much reward- or success-oriented!
Casual gamers will often not have a guild, as guilds can (often it is true) be very time-consuming and -demanding, as well as the stress of the duty of coming into TS, etc...
Casual gamers are numerous! That is why intelligent guild leaders will never force their members to do anything but always keep calm and relaxed without talking in a bad manner about people, who do rarely take part in activities
Casual gamers are the ones, who write "LFG" in the PvP-chat. A realm which offers enough open guild-groups, also by the strongest pvp-groups, will have an advantage that is called social cooperation.
So, closed/gated communities are one reason players quit a game, as they'll never see a 12-man-dungeon from the interior or take part in organized PvP and therefore they miss over 50% of the game
Casual gamers are the reason for the not-functioning group finder at the moment, as the difficulty (even of normal-) dungeons varyies too much.
The more content like Veteran Maelstrom Arena a game has - the less casual gamer feel motivated to play. (you can see this in the new game from Blizzard, which will be more anti-casual-gamer. It really depends if a game is more about competition or not. The "dungeon completition messages in ESO" feel very disturbing in my eyes, as I'm not at all interested to know how much points a certain group from my guild did in AA/etc/etc.. That is disturbing for many!!

The list is much longer, I'm sorry I've no time!

STEVIL · May 2016

My definition of casual gamer is someone not interested in the end game competitive content, either pvp or more specifically the various trials.

They dont necesarily want or NEED to pursue minimaxed BIS builds, gear, etc.

I dont view it as perjorstive, just classifying.

I also dont view it as any indicator of experience, skill or time playing.

kevlarto_ESO · May 2016

Casual gamers, to me are people who have little time to play and play as much as they can in the down time, they work a lot, have kids, but enjoy gaming as a past time, nothing wrong with them in fact they bring in huge revenue for games, casual gamer really had no game to play until wow came along and opened the door for them.

Like all things I am sure there are different types of people that call themselves casual, some folks just like to play games nothing wrong with that, to each their own and they all have a place in online games today.

Drungly · May 2016

I'm seeing some interesting definitions in here. By one definition I'm a casual (not a lot of time to play the game) and by the other I'm a hardcore player (I always aim for the best gear/build and try to get the most out of my char). Anyway, I'm just going to go by the actual definition of the word itself:

ca·su·al
5.
a. Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals; occasional: casual employment at a factory; a casual correspondence with a former teacher.
b. Employed on an irregular basis: casual workers.

The definition of casual as a noun is defined as someone who participates in something on an irregular basis.

Aisle9 · May 2016

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

TL;DR; - Casual players are those who play games that require a low level of commitment, or push for a game to reduce the level of commitment it requires, either for lack of time or skill.

Hope this helped.

This comment right here made your long post rubbish. This is a complete generalization.

Do you think it is only what you call casuals who pushed for the removal of vet ranks? I do not. I have seen so called hardcore players clamoring for this because they don't want to take the time it takes to get to the current max level. They want a quick fix to get to endgame with whatever is the FOTM.

It is sad that this word has gotten to same level in online gaming as other unacceptable derogatory words in society.

Made nothing rubbish, yes, it's a generalization, I was talking in general, said so in my long post. Don't know who asked for the removal of vet ranks, don't really care.

It is kinda boring, though, not hard, not challenging, just boring, so, I can understand why someone felt the need to ask for something different for endgame progression.

Aisle9 wrote: »

Also, note that to determine if it's used as a derogatory term, you have to examine the context. Most of the time it's only meant as an insult when followed by an invite to get better at it instead of complaining (e.g. "stfu skrub, l2p, u filthy casual"), otherwise it's just stating a fact.

Casual: done without much thought, effort, or concern. That's the dictionary, not my opinion.

Other than that, chill mate, it's a game, who cares what other people call you ?

Tavore1138 · May 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello TE, unfortunately I have no time to read all the posts, but here my thoughts on the term "casual gamer", which I use quiet frequently!
A casual gamer is not a all a bad player, just someone who plays more or less rarely, who does not watch hour-long video-descriptions of bosses / craglorn / etc.

A casual gamer is seldomly a crafter, as for dedicated crafting you need to be online "often enough", imho

A casual gamer does earn significantly less Gold in ESO (might be different in other games), as doing 2-3 hours of pledges or PvP gives you a very unsatisfying gold reward (you're lucky if you get more than 10k a day!)

In a better game, 'everything' you do in the game, will give you better gold, no matter if PvP/Leveling/small dungeons/larger dungeons/grinding/crafting/collecting -> In ESO, certain playstyles are not rewarded equally (that is why they introduced the CP cap, as some "playstyles" did significantly more CP!!)

Casual gamers are less "systematic", that means they do not play so much reward- or success-oriented!

Casual gamers will often not have a guild, as guilds can (often it is true) be very time-consuming and -demanding, as well as the stress of the duty of coming into TS, etc...

Casual gamers are numerous! That is why intelligent guild leaders will never force their members to do anything but always keep calm and relaxed without talking in a bad manner about people, who do rarely take part in activities

Casual gamers are the ones, who write "LFG" in the PvP-chat. A realm which offers enough open guild-groups, also by the strongest pvp-groups, will have an advantage that is called social cooperation.

So, closed/gated communities are one reason players quit a game, as they'll never see a 12-man-dungeon from the interior or take part in organized PvP and therefore they miss over 50% of the game

Casual gamers are the reason for the not-functioning group finder at the moment, as the difficulty (even of normal-) dungeons varyies too much.

The more content like Veteran Maelstrom Arena a game has - the less casual gamer feel motivated to play. (you can see this in the new game from Blizzard, which will be more anti-casual-gamer. It really depends if a game is more about competition or not. The "dungeon completition messages in ESO" feel very disturbing in my eyes, as I'm not at all interested to know how much points a certain group from my guild did in AA/etc/etc.. That is disturbing for many!!

The list is much longer, I'm sorry I've no time!

Crazy thing is that I would self describe as casual, I am definitely not a pro gamer but I would not match your list very well - I craft, I am in active guilds, I have 9m gold and have spent more, I lead or have lead trials and pvp raids in good guilds, have done all vet dungeons except vICP, all trials in HM except Maw and have even had scores on the leader boards before they reset, have been emp twice and so on...

And yet I know I probably won't manage vMA any time soon, same with vet Maw, I know that the best PvP players will continue to wreck me - it's not a lack of desire to do content, nor a lack of willingness to improve it's just that to enjoy the game I don't have to do it all now in the best possible way. I have no issues with those that do and it is cool they have the tough content to enjoy that I will get round to later... I'm just kind of casual about it.

Which is what I meant about it not being just a small group of Hardcore/Pro players and a large group of Casuals - there is a wide range of players here across a huge spectrum - which is why trying to shove people into labelled boxes sometimes just doesn't help anyone

Where I 100% agree is that too much super-hard content will most likely turn off the more casual end of the spectrum but equally having some content that is tough for the more hardcore player should not be an issue unless the casual in question is a bit of a brat.

Good luck trying to keep everyone happy Zenimax!

darkstar2084 · May 2016

just think of it this way Hardcore players have 501+ champion points (no life) , casuals have 0-10 (has a life)

Guppet · May 2016

You can be hardcore or casual in two different aspects. Mentality and time commitment.

Mentally, being hardcore means wanting to min/max, wanting to learn mechanics and wanting to be challenged. Casual is the opposite.

For time, being hardcore means playing many many hours, often scheduled. Casual means playing less with no schedule.

Issues arise when people think that play time equals mentality.

I play casual hours, but play those hours with a hardcore mindset. So what am I?

Equally have have been in guilds with many people who play hardcore hours, but never bother to go into min/max or mechanics. What are they (other than a challenge to pull through instances)?

Your mindset will determine how effective you are, not your hours.

There are many players who are hardcore at both, those will be the players at the cutting edge.

There are many players who are casual at both, they will not be cutting edge and could not care less. They will also probably never come to the forums.

Casual/casual will probably not be the ones asking for nerfs, they don't come here to ask for them.

Hardcore/hardcore don't ask for nerfs as they have the time and mindset to beat the content.

It's the mixed crowd who ask for nerfs but for different things.

Hardcore hours/casual mindset want difficulty nerfs, so they can do everything in thier limitless time, without needing to push themselves.

Casual hours/hardcore mindset want accessibility nerfs, as they can do the content, but don't want to grind.

Volkodav · May 2016

Hallothiel wrote: »

This may seem a stupid or provocative question, but it comes from a genuine need to know as it has been bugging me for sometime now just exactly what this means (am new to MMOs - does that make me one?)

It is a term that is bandied around and appears to be used mainly in a derogative manner / as an insult, as if such people do not have any right to play a game. Why? What do these "casuals" do that is so bad?

Please forgive my ignorance & explain.

Whenever I asked this,I was ignored.
I have added the definition of the word "casual" in a comment or two before.
Casual,..meaning to not be committed,to be lacking in intent,not serious,etc.
Gamers who are intent in their games,have the time to play everyday for some time arent casual.
The term seems to be stubornly used to mean those who arent into PvP or into getting the best gear.

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello TE, unfortunately I have no time to read all the posts, but here my thoughts on the term "casual gamer", which I use quiet frequently!
A casual gamer is not a all a bad player, just someone who plays more or less rarely, who does not watch hour-long video-descriptions of bosses / craglorn / etc.

A casual gamer is seldomly a crafter, as for dedicated crafting you need to be online "often enough", imho

A casual gamer does earn significantly less Gold in ESO (might be different in other games), as doing 2-3 hours of pledges or PvP gives you a very unsatisfying gold reward (you're lucky if you get more than 10k a day!)

In a better game, 'everything' you do in the game, will give you better gold, no matter if PvP/Leveling/small dungeons/larger dungeons/grinding/crafting/collecting -> In ESO, certain playstyles are not rewarded equally (that is why they introduced the CP cap, as some "playstyles" did significantly more CP!!)

Casual gamers are less "systematic", that means they do not play so much reward- or success-oriented!

Casual gamers will often not have a guild, as guilds can (often it is true) be very time-consuming and -demanding, as well as the stress of the duty of coming into TS, etc...

Casual gamers are numerous! That is why intelligent guild leaders will never force their members to do anything but always keep calm and relaxed without talking in a bad manner about people, who do rarely take part in activities

Casual gamers are the ones, who write "LFG" in the PvP-chat. A realm which offers enough open guild-groups, also by the strongest pvp-groups, will have an advantage that is called social cooperation.

So, closed/gated communities are one reason players quit a game, as they'll never see a 12-man-dungeon from the interior or take part in organized PvP and therefore they miss over 50% of the game

Casual gamers are the reason for the not-functioning group finder at the moment, as the difficulty (even of normal-) dungeons varyies too much.

The more content like Veteran Maelstrom Arena a game has - the less casual gamer feel motivated to play. (you can see this in the new game from Blizzard, which will be more anti-casual-gamer. It really depends if a game is more about competition or not. The "dungeon completition messages in ESO" feel very disturbing in my eyes, as I'm not at all interested to know how much points a certain group from my guild did in AA/etc/etc.. That is disturbing for many!!

The list is much longer, I'm sorry I've no time!

I dont agree that players are "casual" just because they match some of your criteria,such as:
have less gold than some others
dont play for success or rewards
dont have their own guilds

Plus,how can you blame what you call "casual gamers" for the non-functioning group finder?
Blame the devs.They are the ones who made it. If someone doesnt want to group up it doesnt mean they are "casuals".They just dont want to group up.They are playing the content that the Devs created for them.And many find that a dedication to the game.
ESO isnt really a game made for competition,so the name "casual" really doesnt apply.There are some aspects that are competitive,yes,but that's it.
Casual is just a name PvPers use to differentiate between them and those who just play the game for their own enjoyment.
The Majority of players arent casual,for the most part,as many dedicate a lot of time,are everyday players,and pay for Subscriptions every month as well.
To me,Casual would include people who's work and family keep them from dedicating quite a bit of time.Through no fault of their own.
Lastly,not being a competitive player does NOT mean you are a "casual player".
(I hate that term.)

rotaugen454 · May 2016

Since I don't PvP in a guild or run non-pug trials, does that make me a casual, even though I have a VR16 in every class and 546 CP?

Annalyse · May 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello TE, unfortunately I have no time to read all the posts, but here my thoughts on the term "casual gamer", which I use quiet frequently!
A casual gamer is not a all a bad player, just someone who plays more or less rarely, who does not watch hour-long video-descriptions of bosses / craglorn / etc.

A casual gamer is seldomly a crafter, as for dedicated crafting you need to be online "often enough", imho

A casual gamer does earn significantly less Gold in ESO (might be different in other games), as doing 2-3 hours of pledges or PvP gives you a very unsatisfying gold reward (you're lucky if you get more than 10k a day!)

In a better game, 'everything' you do in the game, will give you better gold, no matter if PvP/Leveling/small dungeons/larger dungeons/grinding/crafting/collecting -> In ESO, certain playstyles are not rewarded equally (that is why they introduced the CP cap, as some "playstyles" did significantly more CP!!)

Casual gamers are less "systematic", that means they do not play so much reward- or success-oriented!

Casual gamers will often not have a guild, as guilds can (often it is true) be very time-consuming and -demanding, as well as the stress of the duty of coming into TS, etc...

Casual gamers are numerous! That is why intelligent guild leaders will never force their members to do anything but always keep calm and relaxed without talking in a bad manner about people, who do rarely take part in activities

Casual gamers are the ones, who write "LFG" in the PvP-chat. A realm which offers enough open guild-groups, also by the strongest pvp-groups, will have an advantage that is called social cooperation.

So, closed/gated communities are one reason players quit a game, as they'll never see a 12-man-dungeon from the interior or take part in organized PvP and therefore they miss over 50% of the game

Casual gamers are the reason for the not-functioning group finder at the moment, as the difficulty (even of normal-) dungeons varyies too much.

The more content like Veteran Maelstrom Arena a game has - the less casual gamer feel motivated to play. (you can see this in the new game from Blizzard, which will be more anti-casual-gamer. It really depends if a game is more about competition or not. The "dungeon completition messages in ESO" feel very disturbing in my eyes, as I'm not at all interested to know how much points a certain group from my guild did in AA/etc/etc.. That is disturbing for many!!

The list is much longer, I'm sorry I've no time!

I really don't agree with most of this. I consider myself a casual gamer, as I have limited play time and don't really care about having the best gear enough that I would spend a lot of time farming, but would rather just have fun playing through the content. That said, I am an avid crafter and do not know why you think that takes a lot of time online. Maxing your crafting skills can be done while doing regular gameplay, and trait research goes on while offline so there is no problem there. I do not have a problem with earning gold, and have more than I know what to do with at this point - it just comes down to merchanting and having good trade guilds. Which brings me to your point about not being in guilds - I myself am in four, and having limited play time has not caused an issue there either.

As to how I would define a casual gamer - I completely agree with this description:

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Casual gamers are people who don't really care that much about "the best". They are not all "bad players". Some of them are very good at what they do. They just don't have that drive to get "the best" no matter what it take. They would rather wear craft gear than grind a dungeon 100 of times for 10%, even 20% more dps. They rather use their play time to do something they enjoy, be it roleplay, running dungeon with random, pvp, questing... than grinding for "the best".

Casual players find their fun in the journey, not the result.

This is how I am in every game I play, even when I had more play time. The fun is in the journey. I hate grinding and excessive farming, and would rather avoid that and have slightly lesser gear so that I can have fun playing. I have a few friends that are always non-stop farming for gear and complaining that it is boring but they can't get what they want, and I can't understand why they do it. Games should be fun, not work.

Daraugh · May 2016

Artificial labels created that give people who like to have someone to blame things on a handy scapegoat.

I have absolutely no data to back up my next claim, but I would bet that the actual curve of players is a pretty good bell curve with the majority of players falling into the 68.2% that quest, rp, craft, do dungeons and pvp fairly regularly. Farther out on the curve, the 27.2% regularly choose harder vet dungeons and trials or spend the majority of their time in pvp with organized groups. Out on the far tails are the 4.2% and the .2% who probably either live in pvp or dungeons or just log in once a great while to check out what's going on.

When ZOS is creating content, they're going to create something that will reach the most players possible. Splitting players into two groups gives you no information at all, just a false weapon to fight something that doesn't really exist.

Sausage · May 2016

First there was no-lifers and HC people, devs gave them all the good stuff you could imagine, they started to kill games, now this genre realizes casuals are needed to keep the game going, thats the story of casuals, at least some devs realize this but not all, dont know why.