Champion rank CANNOT be displayed next to character and @name

stevepdodson_ESO888 · May 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

elitism is great

urgghhh!!!
you are not elite enough...just look at your poor collection of v16 chars in your sig...go away you peasant

Cuyler · May 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno has there been a decision yet on showing CP's? sorry I didn't get a chance to watch the last eso live.

Shadesofkin · May 2016

Use the gear cap as the displayed level. 160 is the cap at the moment for gear, then use 160. Having more than 160 means nothing as far as gear and experience points go, so why not simply use 160?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Use the gear cap as the displayed level. 160 is the cap at the moment for gear, then use 160. Having more than 160 means nothing as far as gear and experience points go, so why not simply use 160?

@Wrobel
Seriously why is CP showing t all if its only important as respects to gear drops and equipping gear.

Im 50, O K cool
I have 0-160 cps, ok that means i can only equip certain gear, fine.

Why is it showing on the character?
why is it showing on the NPC?

CP for gear drops are in ranges of 40, 70, 100, 130, 150, 160
make the NPCs level 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 and be done with it...keep things logical and simple when you raise it then use 56...

Elsterchen · May 2016

Actually, anyone noticed that with the ability costs linked to CPs after DB goes live, a CP160 char will be able to pull off more abilities then a CP 900 char?

If speced right that might give an advantage to lower CP chars (once they reach cap ofc)... right?...

... just thinking loud, haven't made up my mind about that yet.

hydrocynus · May 2016

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't agree with @username showing on the screen.

As far as CP rank, it just make it public information how much time you have spent on the game / grind IMO, not much more.

Unfortunately it is more than that. Someone with 501 CP is vastly more powerful than someone with 160. Just with one passive stuck as mighty they can put 47 more points into it and have an extra 120 in the Mage tree to increase crit and dots which the 160 can't. The difference is large.

Another example: I have a friend new to the game so i rolled a new toon to play with him. I have over 501 cp he has none. We both play same class same way. In a group dungeon scaled to v16 (we both lvl 14) I do 5.5k dps and he does 1k dps.

It is not elitism. It is just logic same as LFM V16 just 485 times worse!

exiledtyrant · May 2016

Elsterchen wrote: »

Actually, anyone noticed that with the ability costs linked to CPs after DB goes live, a CP160 char will be able to pull off more abilities then a CP 900 char?

If speced right that might give an advantage to lower CP chars (once they reach cap ofc)... right?...

... just thinking loud, haven't made up my mind about that yet.

I think it was done that way because a CP 900 character will have a bigger resource pool, more cost reduction, and resource regeneration than a CP 160 character. It is probably a way to try and reign in infinite resources longer down the line.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't agree with @username showing on the screen.

As far as CP rank, it just make it public information how much time you have spent on the game / grind IMO, not much more.

Unfortunately it is more than that. Someone with 501 CP is vastly more powerful than someone with 160. Just with one passive stuck as mighty they can put 47 more points into it and have an extra 120 in the Mage tree to increase crit and dots which the 160 can't. The difference is large.

Another example: I have a friend new to the game so i rolled a new toon to play with him. I have over 501 cp he has none. We both play same class same way. In a group dungeon scaled to v16 (we both lvl 14) I do 5.5k dps and he does 1k dps.

It is not elitism. It is just logic same as LFM V16 just 485 times worse!

@hydrocynus
Another good reason why CP shouldn't show.

The base char view has to stop with a numeric of 1-50.
Now in order to show further established characters (in general) I think there should be brackets around the numeric at all levels cause of CPs.

Three brackets like the NPC guards.
As the three warrior, thief and Mage ...there would be 3 brackets on each side. Colors would display on those brackets hree, red and blue as you progress

As you reach the number of points in any of the categories of thief, at 10 you'd get a bracket but see below as this applies to all
@Wrobel
10- no color but adds first bracket
30 - adds colors (blue, green, or red or two of three or all three if 30 is reached)
75 - bracket 2 is added (using no colors) but colors stay on bracket 1
100 - colors apply to bracket 2
120 - bracket 3 with colors

It's a simple way to show and it aligns similarly with the guards and stronger NPCs that we face so it looks familiar and is informing other players but because the numbers alone mean anything these brackets and colors signify progression and use better.

hydrocynus · May 2016

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501. Those are very different calibre of toon. It's not elitism, it's logic. Yes you wear the same gear but one is significantly stronger than the other and it is important to know that. It's exactly the same as distinguishing between a V1 and a V16.

By the way, I am not saying that I think it should be the way i have described it. My feeling is that the champion point system is going to make segregation worse as people with same gear will not group due to difference in cp, but I still believe that information must be visible because it is your level and it defines your capabilities (to an extent of course) whether you like it or not.

Enodoc · May 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501.

Right, but that means that CPs should be shown on all characters, not just those at Level 50. There's a significant difference between a Level 20 player with 10 CPs and a Level 20 player with 501 CPs, so we should be able to see that difference too.

Enodoc · May 2016

Denidil wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I disagree with pretty much everything Enodoc is saying in this thread.

Enodoc - you're the type of person that advocates for "participation trophies"

Yes, well, thank you for telling everyone what my view is. But they can read that for themselves. What's your view on the situation? Or should I start making assumptions too?

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

In terms of displaying a player's power I agree. But if that's the reason to show them, we should also see the CPs of a Level 20 player, or anyone else who has them. So why are they not being shown for Level 20 players currently? If it's because ZOS decided it's not relevant, then it doesn't suddenly become relevant at Level 50, as the differences are the same as at Level 20.

Oh by the way @Denidil I actually really don't like "participation trophies". Trophies are a reward, and if you've read some of my other posts around the forums you will see that I don't like the idea of getting rewards when no effort has been made. CPs are actually a very good example of "reward for effort"; you don't get them just by turning up, you have to put the work in.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

hydrocynus wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501.

Fair enough, but based on both of these comments, CPs should be shown on all characters, not just those at Level 50. There's a significant difference between a Level 20 player with 10 CPs and a Level 20 player with 501 CPs, so we should be able to see that difference too.

Yep but then it gets confusing....CP doesn't apply to some things pre 50 but it does impact others.
So let's also think about a PvP scenario where CP isn't allowed

I really believe the CP numeric isn't a good idea.
I do think the bracket idea I suggested makes better sense as it actually displays more meaningful Cp indicator that applies in pre and post 50.

But overall, the conversion of VR to CP is a huge mistake as VR was always a post 50 reality. You can't mix the two which is why one was introduced along side the other. What we have now is a nightmare of mess with more lacking information because ZOS has now tied the VR problems to CP which by default would disrupt any scaling, loot drops, nodes, non CP campaigns and CP gear.

We either are going to have Cp always or not.
If it's always on then there needs to be a logic based way to play all while the gear, mats and requirements as well as NPCs function not based on CP.

The progression exists without using CP indicators as it has done well up to now.
Removing VR doesn't mean to remove progression nor should it require merging of CP.

That's the reality and so to be reasonable.

There are those who want VR to stay
There are those who want VR to completely go away
There are those who want to see CP
There are those who want non CP environments

This is all possible but what we have right now doesn't accomplish any of the above without affecting something else in a negative way or creating confusion or eliminating things we have right now that people enjoy specifically non-CP PvP and scaling.

Enodoc · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

hydrocynus wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501.

Fair enough, but based on both of these comments, CPs should be shown on all characters, not just those at Level 50. There's a significant difference between a Level 20 player with 10 CPs and a Level 20 player with 501 CPs, so we should be able to see that difference too.

Yep but then it gets confusing....CP doesn't apply to some things pre 50 but it does impact others.

Hmm, you're right, but we should probably think about what those things actually are so we can compare them better.

Just considering the "character" angle here, as that's all that would be relevant for whether or not CPs should be displayed on the character. Add any that I've missed!

Percentage increase to Health, Magicka, and Stamina: Affects both 50 and pre-50 characters
Passives: Affects both 50 and pre-50 characters
Gear: The only gear that requires CPs is Level 50 gear (but that doesn't mean that they couldn't introduce pre-50 gear with both a level and CP requirement).

So let's also think about a PvP scenario where CP isn't allowed

I actually don't know how these "No CP" campaigns work. I know the passives are disabled, but do you keep the percentage increase to H/M/S, or is that removed as well?

I really believe the CP numeric isn't a good idea.
I do think the bracket idea I suggested makes better sense as it actually displays more meaningful Cp indicator that applies in pre and post 50.

Yeah the bracketing is certainly a nice idea. It shows the power difference (which is what is relevant), without showing the numbers.

What we have now is a nightmare of mess with more lacking information because ZOS has now tied the VR problems to CP which by default would disrupt any scaling, loot drops, nodes, non CP campaigns and CP gear.

We either are going to have Cp always or not.
If it's always on then there needs to be a logic based way to play all while the gear, mats and requirements as well as NPCs function not based on CP.

The progression exists without using CP indicators as it has done well up to now.
Removing VR doesn't mean to remove progression nor should it require merging of CP.

That's the reality and so to be reasonable.

There are those who want VR to stay
There are those who want VR to completely go away
There are those who want to see CP
There are those who want non CP environments

This is all possible but what we have right now doesn't accomplish any of the above without affecting something else in a negative way or creating confusion or eliminating things we have right now that people enjoy specifically non-CP PvP and scaling.

Agree with all of that

hydrocynus · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501.

Right, but that means that CPs should be shown on all characters, not just those at Level 50. There's a significant difference between a Level 20 player with 10 CPs and a Level 20 player with 501 CPs, so we should be able to see that difference too.

Absolutely.

Foxic · May 2016

Reading these comments amazes me. The casual community in eso is far more toxic than the "elites". This is the only game I can think of where casual players will make fun of you/get angry at you for wanting to play the game differently than them. I will never bad mouth a new player for not knowing what they're doing, but the second I say that I don't personally like running with pugs I'm an elitist ass

Darlon · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

I actually don't know how these "No CP" campaigns work. I know the passives are disabled, but do you keep the percentage increase to H/M/S, or is that removed as well?

They're removed as well..

Hutch679 · May 2016

Say what you want about this change, but when I see Cp 200 or less next to a name in cyrodiil I'm going Ham on them with my 595 next to my name lmao

Luigi_Vampa · May 2016

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Reading these comments amazes me. The casual community in eso is far more toxic than the "elites". This is the only game I can think of where casual players will make fun of you/get angry at you for wanting to play the game differently than them. I will never bad mouth a new player for not knowing what they're doing, but the second I say that I don't personally like running with pugs I'm an elitist ass

It is. I've gotten way more criticism from casuals than elites in ESO. I've had pugs get mad at me for explaining boss mechanics or trying to reduce the redundancy of skills. I've even had people in my own faction in PvP accuse me of cheating because I "shouldn't be able to cloak that much" I tried to explain exactly how I got my regen to that level, but no, I'm a cheater apparently.

I actually think that we have this reversed. I think people will get more hate for being over the cp cap than not. I can already hear the whispers telling me that I am a no lifer living in my mom's basement.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

hydrocynus wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that it is important to show the level of all characters. Like it or not, level is now defined by champion points and it is important to know what you get from a player due to the significance of the difference between a cp 160 and a cp 501.

Fair enough, but based on both of these comments, CPs should be shown on all characters, not just those at Level 50. There's a significant difference between a Level 20 player with 10 CPs and a Level 20 player with 501 CPs, so we should be able to see that difference too.

Yep but then it gets confusing....CP doesn't apply to some things pre 50 but it does impact others.

Hmm, you're right, but we should probably think about what those things actually are so we can compare them better.

Just considering the "character" angle here, as that's all that would be relevant for whether or not CPs should be displayed on the character. Add any that I've missed!
Percentage increase to Health, Magicka, and Stamina: Affects both 50 and pre-50 characters

Passives: Affects both 50 and pre-50 characters

Gear: The only gear that requires CPs is Level 50 gear (but that doesn't mean that they couldn't introduce pre-50 gear with both a level and CP requirement).

So let's also think about a PvP scenario where CP isn't allowed

I actually don't know how these "No CP" campaigns work. I know the passives are disabled, but do you keep the percentage increase to H/M/S, or is that removed as well?

I really believe the CP numeric isn't a good idea.
I do think the bracket idea I suggested makes better sense as it actually displays more meaningful Cp indicator that applies in pre and post 50.

Yeah the bracketing is certainly a nice idea. It shows the power difference (which is what is relevant), without showing the numbers.

What we have now is a nightmare of mess with more lacking information because ZOS has now tied the VR problems to CP which by default would disrupt any scaling, loot drops, nodes, non CP campaigns and CP gear.

We either are going to have Cp always or not.
If it's always on then there needs to be a logic based way to play all while the gear, mats and requirements as well as NPCs function not based on CP.

The progression exists without using CP indicators as it has done well up to now.
Removing VR doesn't mean to remove progression nor should it require merging of CP.

That's the reality and so to be reasonable.

There are those who want VR to stay
There are those who want VR to completely go away
There are those who want to see CP
There are those who want non CP environments

This is all possible but what we have right now doesn't accomplish any of the above without affecting something else in a negative way or creating confusion or eliminating things we have right now that people enjoy specifically non-CP PvP and scaling.

Agree with all of that

@Enodoc

The character angle....
-I think the percentages and Passives are all captured in the bracketing (open to build on that idea and any suggested changes)

Non-CP campaign....
-I believe Cp gear shouldn't be allowed but wait, it's not really CP gear or is it?
This is why Cp should not appear on NPCs or players, the CP gear as of suggested PTS ZOS changes is now CP gear post 50 so it shouldn't be allowed which then brings up, the Passives and any stat changes which should also be disabled. As well as CP quality enchants or CP quality potions and food

Basically CP conversion causes problems.

OrphanHelgen · May 2016

For PVE, I dont see problem with showing cp rank.
People are complaining content is too easy.
Then we have people complaining they wont get a group with their low champion points becuase no one wants them for the insane speed run.

There you have the solution, let the CP rank 200 people do a dungeion together. It will be challenging and hard, and hopefully fun and enjoyable, like we all felt it when the dungeions first came out. And let the experienced players who did it 200 times, do a speed run with other experienced if they like. I really dont see any problems here when it comes to PVE.

Right now, people can solo city of ash. But I also joined a vr16 tank and a healer that was stuck in that dungeon for hours, and didnt even get pass the 2nd boss, and needed to replace their dds.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

For PVE, I dont see problem with showing cp rank.
People are complaining content is too easy.
Then we have people complaining they wont get a group with their low champion points becuase no one wants them for the insane speed run.

There you have the solution, let the CP rank 200 people do a dungeion together. It will be challenging and hard, and hopefully fun and enjoyable, like we all felt it when the dungeions first came out. And let the experienced players who did it 200 times, do a speed run with other experienced if they like. I really dont see any problems here when it comes to PVE.

Right now, people can solo city of ash. But I also joined a vr16 tank and a healer that was stuck in that dungeon for hours, and didnt even get pass the 2nd boss, and needed to replace their dds.

@OrphanHelgen

I believe that actually doesn't work because the whole point of scaling and removing VR ranks is to not segregate players.
When you sort players by CP you're segregating them
When you display CP, players will segregate themselves as you comment above
When you look at CP, it in no way creates difficulty for an NPC unless we have a description of the specific Passives and stat increases applied to those NPCs. This is the main reason why CPs shouldn't be used on NPCs. And if they're not on NPCs, why put them on players.

ZOS isn't giving access to inspect the actual usage of CPs on either player characters or NPCs so it's of no importance other than the bracket idea I have. But with the bracket idea, there is also a need for detail and logic of what it means and how it relates.

As far as content being too easy, that has nothing to do with CP at all. That's exclusively a change that ZOS made during closed BETA to the base game and shortly after PC release to VR silver, gold and Craglorn. That's easily reversed at any point ZOS decides to go back to what difficulties existed.

Eiagra · May 2016

Having not read all pages, but hopefully understanding the situation, here's a possible solution:

In Gameplay, have a toggle that is off by default that displays CP to other users.

Give the player the power to choose whether or not they want to make their CP public or not.

Same for your @handle. Or, if the point of that one is to make reporting easier, give the player the option to hide @handles instead -- that way roleplayers don't have to be burdened by screen clutter.

As for PvP, you could always force CP to display in those situations, and only in campaigns that warrant it, and only against target opponents, as it's a bit more important to know the strength of your foe in those situations.

Denidil · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I disagree with pretty much everything Enodoc is saying in this thread.

Enodoc - you're the type of person that advocates for "participation trophies"

Yes, well, thank you for telling everyone what my view is. But they can read that for themselves. What's your view on the situation? Or should I start making assumptions too?

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

In terms of displaying a player's power I agree. But if that's the reason to show them, we should also see the CPs of a Level 20 player, or anyone else who has them. So why are they not being shown for Level 20 players currently? If it's because ZOS decided it's not relevant, then it doesn't suddenly become relevant at Level 50, as the differences are the same as at Level 20.

Agreed. A level 20 char on a 500CP account is a lot stronger than a Level 20 char on a 0 CP account.

Elsterchen · May 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't agree with @username showing on the screen.

As far as CP rank, it just make it public information how much time you have spent on the game / grind IMO, not much more.

Unfortunately it is more than that. Someone with 501 CP is vastly more powerful than someone with 160. Just with one passive stuck as mighty they can put 47 more points into it and have an extra 120 in the Mage tree to increase crit and dots which the 160 can't. The difference is large.

Another example: I have a friend new to the game so i rolled a new toon to play with him. I have over 501 cp he has none. We both play same class same way. In a group dungeon scaled to v16 (we both lvl 14) I do 5.5k dps and he does 1k dps.

It is not elitism. It is just logic same as LFM V16 just 485 times worse!

Hmm, agreed.

But when comparing a capped char (currentlx 501 CP) and one with CP far beyond cap ...?

Just owning more CP gimps that player bc it can't be used in any way and abilities get more expensive...

...

lol
...