I am concerned that the punishment for being vamp in PvP is still too high.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Every stam class will be running the physical Dawnbreaker with Evil Hunter next patch, plus the new passives giving increased weapon damage for FG abilities slotted, plus buffs to Silver Shards etc etc.

I am loving the change to Mist Form and would like to use it next patch, but Even with nearly 30k health+ all impen + solid CP distributions, I am getting one shot on PTS by vamp burst combos.

I just want comparable risk and reward for being a vampire, and I feel that the rewards are meager and the risks overwhelming.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Also invisibats is still gimped and not working properly. The vamp is targetable when in Clouding Swarm, making the entire purpose of the skill null. This skill was cool and unique, powerful yet not overwhelming with ample counterplay before. I am so confused as to why this change was made...

dsalter · May 2016

video proof works wonders

Jhunn · May 2016

I could live with a few one-shots if clouding swarm was actually working.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Jhunn wrote: »

I could live with a few one-shots if clouding swarm was actually working.

OMG I forgot to mention invisibats.

I dropped vamp on live the second I saw that this change happened. They gutted a really cool and unique skill.

Zose pls fix!

RoamingRiverElk · May 2016

Indeed.

danno8 · May 2016

So basically for Stam classes Dawnbreaker will do 20% extra damage to you because of the FG passive and since it is physical will be another 25% from mighty. So 45% instead of 60% if you are Vampire/WW. So that is a buff for for Vamp/ WW.

If you are normal it will just be dealing with the extra 25% from mighty. So that's a nerf for all the normals out there.

Not sure why anyone would be running Evil Hunter, or why you bring that up. All it does is costs you stamina to cast in order to save you less stamina than it costs.

The fact camo hunter doesn't proc any extra damage (or double proc it for gods sake) is a huge nerf to the FG skill line vs Vampire players.

We will see how it plays out.

RoyJade · May 2016

On live, a vampire take heavy damage on FG's abilities : 60% more with Dawnbreaker (and stun from every mag build), stun + 30% to take triple damage with silver bold (more or less 40% more damage), dangerous damage from expert hunter with huge damage on surprise shot, and 9% more weapon/spell damage from everyone.
On PTS, vampires take only 20% more damage from FG's abilities. That's less from Dawnbreaker, less from shard, far less from expert hunter (because expert hunter don't do any damage anymore). Even the 9% more spell damage is gone, the 9% more weapon damage need three FG's skill slotted. Vampire exclusive CC has been removed too.

As a result, vampire take far less damage with FG's abilities on the PTS than on live. With the buff on drain, the huge buff fix to mist form and the reverse to the vampire's skill slotting requirement for passive, vampire take a huge buff.
If ZOS fix the clouding swarm, vampire will be really fine in the DB patch.

MrTarkanian48 · May 2016

I am not on PTS so cannot confirm or deny any one-shots.

But based on the PTS notes I would think that vamps are in a better place than they were. Magicka Dawnbreaker of Smiting was what I had the most trouble with Many Magicka builds ran this, it scaled with their CP, and hit for an additional 60% damage and knockdown. The 60% damage increase has been removed, and also the FG passive of 9% increased damage to vamps has been removed.

Now many stam builds will run it and it will scale with their CP. It will also do 20% more damage to vamps. However, the original 60% is still removed, most will run flawless and forfeit the knockdown, and again the original 9% damage is removed.

WIll flawless still hurt? Yes. But alot less than the magicka builds with Smiting in live right now. Hypothetically a mag build running Shooting Star will hit harder than Dawnbreaker.

Also camo hunter is nerfed, and I don't anticipate many people running silver shards to be honest.

I do wish they would fix clouding swarm.

DjSolJAH · May 2016

Bat swarm is hardly ever used anymore. Must still be bugged

ostrapz · May 2016

@KenaPKK at first glance i thought the same thing, but fg and fire our only vamp concerns soo. 1. Magicka dks, siege and fire destro users our the only fire damage to worry about now stam dks are poison and i think fire wont be too much of an issue
2. Fg and dawnbreaker now will definitely be more popular with stam but from what i can see they kinda made fg unavailable to magicka as a whole

There will be some nightblades running hunter and most stam classes will find a spot for dawnbreaker but i think the overall amount of fg you see wont change too much

KenaPKK · May 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

@KenaPKK at first glance i thought the same thing, but fg and fire our only vamp concerns soo. 1. Magicka dks, siege and fire destro users our the only fire damage to worry about now stam dks are poison and i think fire wont be too much of an issue
2. Fg and dawnbreaker now will definitely be more popular with stam but from what i can see they kinda made fg unavailable to magicka as a whole

There will be some nightblades running hunter and most stam classes will find a spot for dawnbreaker but i think the overall amount of fg you see wont change too much

So then half of DKs and every stam character. Hmm. That's a lot to worry about.

ElliottXO · May 2016

What punishment? The 20% extra damage that's left is partially cancelled out by the undead passive.

DB will be the revival of team edward. I can see them bites being sold for 20k again ;-P

PhatGrimReaper · May 2016

I think you are underplaying just how powerful Mist is going to be next patch....

yell0wdart · May 2016

Still seems like a net loss in damage from Dawnbreaker to me, plus we have Hardy to help mitigate. So it'll still hurt, but probably a little less than it currently does while wielded by a high spell damage magicka build on live right now.

I think most stam users will probably run Flawless over Smiting, though, if not only for the passive weapon damage buff. The stun's usefulness is too situational. However, with the change to Incapacitating Strike, I think you'll probably see more stam NBs running that for burst than Flawless Dawnbreaker. So we'd have to be concerned with DKs, siege and ~75% of stam builds.

KenaPKK · May 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

I think you are underplaying just how powerful Mist is going to be next patch....

Eyyy eff gee arrrrrr! Sup dude.

You mean about as good as Shuffle + roll dodge is now, except that you can attack during Shuffle's snare immunity?

But seriously, yes I expect I am going to love it. That said, I'll still be highly prone to getting one shot the moment I pop out of it, which completely defeats the purpose. Also, I'm pigeonholed into using Devouring Swarm instead of Clouding Swarm, which saddens me.

ostrapz · May 2016

@kenapkk alot less magicka dks than stam so i wouldnt say half of dks, and yes i sai most stam classes but you cant forget all the magicka classes running it now that will drop it will proabably bring it around the same number of people running dawnbreaker

Gottbeard · May 2016

When you say 1 shot what do you mean? Is flawless doing 30k damage and killing you in one hit? Do you mean league of legends one shot (comboed or busted in one rotation) ? Or do you mean flawless was the last big hit that killed you?

What kind of damage are we talking about here?

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

Sounds like from some of the reports vamp will survive better . That's encouraging .

KenaPKK · May 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

When you say 1 shot what do you mean? Is flawless doing 30k damage and killing you in one hit? Do you mean league of legends one shot (comboed or busted in one rotation) ? Or do you mean flawless was the last big hit that killed you?

What kind of damage are we talking about here?

Like a heavy attack into Surprise Attack into Flawless combo. Not just one ability for sure! I need to go back on PTS and do it again and record it to get exact numbers. But yea, as a vamp, A guy built with the new FG tools HURTS...imo a little too much.

Or maybe it's that the counters to vamp are becoming too ubiquitous. Becoming a vamp is a decision with benefits and drawbacks, but running the counters to vampirism -- physical Dawnbreaker, Expert Hunter, FG passives, etc -- is not a decision. There are only benefits to running these abilities and few/no drawbacks. This exchange feels one-sided against vamps imo.

KenaPKK · May 2016

DjSolJAH wrote: »

Bat swarm is hardly ever used anymore. Must still be bugged

Clouding Swarm is useless because you can target vamps who use it with single target abilities during the swarm now. It's pointless as a defensive tool and mediocre at best as an offensive tool without the "can't be targeted" mechanic.

Devouring Swarm is still used, but only on the tankiest of builds because there is so much frontloaded burst damage aimed at vamps via Camo Hunter and Dawnbreaker.

Vamp is still popular on stealth gankers for the movement speed when crouching, but those builds don't look for straight up fights anyway.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · May 2016

I have said this in the non-class skills feedback thread. Vampire should have a MINIMUM time spent in each stage - even if you spam the vamp skills. So you get 6hrs per stage and a 30min reduction with skill use. Use a skill 12 times and you are stage 4.

Each use should reduce time until you get to 1hr or 45mins or so. That would allow you to play in ANY stage for min/maxing and build purposes. Would give you 45mins of uninterupted gameplay before you would have to feed again.

Do this and it fixes vamps for PvP.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I have said this in the non-class skills feedback thread. Vampire should have a MINIMUM time spent in each stage - even if you spam the vamp skills. So you get 6hrs per stage and a 30min reduction with skill use. Use a skill 12 times and you are stage 4.

Each use should reduce time until you get to 1hr or 45mins or so. That would allow you to play in ANY stage for min/maxing and build purposes. Would give you 45mins of uninterupted gameplay before you would have to feed again.

Do this and it fixes vamps for PvP.

I disagree. I think using vamp abilities should plunge you deeper into the disease, progressing your stages like on PTS. However, I think that feeding in combat should be a mechanic used to counterbalance that in PvP. I have a ton of ideas surrounding vampirism in PvP that I suppose I should write out. Siiiiigh >.<

Sugaroverdose · May 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

I think you are underplaying just how powerful Mist is going to be next patch....

It was broken for hell a lot of time, it doesn't going to be strong, it's going to be fixed.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I have said this in the non-class skills feedback thread. Vampire should have a MINIMUM time spent in each stage - even if you spam the vamp skills. So you get 6hrs per stage and a 30min reduction with skill use. Use a skill 12 times and you are stage 4.

Each use should reduce time until you get to 1hr or 45mins or so. That would allow you to play in ANY stage for min/maxing and build purposes. Would give you 45mins of uninterupted gameplay before you would have to feed again.

Do this and it fixes vamps for PvP.

I disagree. I think using vamp abilities should plunge you deeper into the disease, progressing your stages like on PTS. However, I think that feeding in combat should be a mechanic used to counterbalance that in PvP. I have a ton of ideas surrounding vampirism in PvP that I suppose I should write out. Siiiiigh >.<

Second ulti stunning and feeding everyone around? Strange but somehow nightblades got it

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I have said this in the non-class skills feedback thread. Vampire should have a MINIMUM time spent in each stage - even if you spam the vamp skills. So you get 6hrs per stage and a 30min reduction with skill use. Use a skill 12 times and you are stage 4.

Each use should reduce time until you get to 1hr or 45mins or so. That would allow you to play in ANY stage for min/maxing and build purposes. Would give you 45mins of uninterupted gameplay before you would have to feed again.

Do this and it fixes vamps for PvP.

From my PoV stages should not be less than 3 hours to not force people to spend their ambrosia/stat food for feeding.