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Why NB's are OP in 1 picture
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Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
It might be an interesting experiment to see how many complained about DK's, I bet its a lot.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Lol it's popular because it's overpowered. Why would anyone reroll mediocre class with masses? Your logic fails here.So many buffs, yet they miss the one that makes you unkillable in PvP: Major Mending.
All of the other buffs aren't unique to the Nightblade class and can be found in the weapon skill lines (what's wrong with them btw?)
I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
Currently, Stamina Nightblade is good at one thing and one thing only: ganking. If you can't instagib your opponent, you'll lose in the long run because you heal for 25% less than your opponents & you can't really match the Jabs DPS (which is better than Surprise Attack if you have the Templar Ransack the NB first), let alone DK DoTs which absolutely decimate the NB.
Only thing Nightblades are at the moment is popular.
And popular=/="overpowered"
Because there's a herd mentality.
Person A: OMG NB so OP NEXT PATCH!!!
Person B: oh, I guess I'll make NB because Person A says it's gonna be "OP"
Person C: OMG everyone is rolling NB, I will too!
and so on...
I don't even remember the last time I lost to a NB on my Templar (not counting PTS with 600ms latency).0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...) - but technically you might be correct here.
Major Evasion: ShuffleEdited by DDuke on May 10, 2016 10:56PM3 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, the point is that having 5 skills that do the the same doesn't make a class OP.@Jules
The problem with just listing Minor and Major Buffs is that it doesnt take the unique class passives into consideration which are more important than some Minor/Major Buffs. Nightblades get extra crit damage, 8% more Magicka, 20% (?) extra recoveries and have the best resource managment tool (siphoning attacks) which allows them to run 800 magicka reg on a max dmg build. That's why NB is the best pvp group-DD - not because they have some extra Major Buffs.
However if you want to argue based on Major/Minor Buffs there is no information gain in listing the same buff several times; for example for Nightblades you list Major Expedition 5 times. If anything you should only list the different buffs.
Another thing that has to be considered is whether buffs are unique to the class or can be gained easily via weapon skills: I'd argue that having access to Major Mending is better than Major Expedition.
There's a couple more things but I guess you see where its going.
All in all I agree that NBs are OP atm but I cant agree with this spreadsheet.
I'm continuing working on the spread sheet to compare each classes sustain/hard cc/soft cc capabilties/damage potential and max stat passives. So yes, it is incomplete but the thing is, NB excels at in nearly all of these departments due to extremely cohesive skill and passive interaction.
And you can say that I shouldn't have listed major expedition 5 times for Nightblade. Perhaps instead, Nightblade shouldn't have 5 different skills that give them access to major expedition and I wouldn't need to. (ESPECIALLY when you consider that templar and sorc have 0 access to major expedition through class skills and DK gets a measley 2s on chains.)
I guess my post might read out a bit more negative than intended, basically I agree that NBs are OP, however I feel like your spreadsheet doesn't really hit the point of why they are the best class as it lacks several aspects which I mentioned and a incomplete argumentation is in many cases counter-productive as people will just say that you're QQing with no reason. If I would think that NBs are not OP, I will look at your spreadsheet and say that you just try to make NB look bad by artificially enlarging the column for NBs by listing the same buffs several time and close the thread.
So I rather wanted to simply point out the flawes within the spreadsheet rather than critsize you or anything.
- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.8 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.6 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.3 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »
She has a NB. lol. And plays her way better than you.
Biased? lmao
Wait... what?
Did Darnathian just compliment me? Is this real life?
Being away from the game for the last month has been very healthy for me. All the stress and anger at Zos is gone.
I realize now i should have directed that anger at Zos. Not those who utilized the strengths and tools Zos forced on us.
And besides. some of these kids that post this non sense is rediculous.
I know u had a NB bc i remember i finally killed her on my 81st try. lolEdited by Darnathian on May 10, 2016 11:04PM3 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
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That herd was saying Templar OP!!! a while ago. They played it in pts but after that I didnt see masses of people rerolled and retired all of their chars to play templar alone. Also by saying "herd" you are fooling people. Anyone who have eyes and ability to read(and possibly understanding of game mechanics) can see the difference how each class performs in various scenarios.
Lol it's popular because it's overpowered. Why would anyone reroll mediocre class with masses? Your logic fails here.So many buffs, yet they miss the one that makes you unkillable in PvP: Major Mending.
All of the other buffs aren't unique to the Nightblade class and can be found in the weapon skill lines (what's wrong with them btw?)
I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
Currently, Stamina Nightblade is good at one thing and one thing only: ganking. If you can't instagib your opponent, you'll lose in the long run because you heal for 25% less than your opponents & you can't really match the Jabs DPS (which is better than Surprise Attack if you have the Templar Ransack the NB first), let alone DK DoTs which absolutely decimate the NB.
Only thing Nightblades are at the moment is popular.
And popular=/="overpowered"
Because there's a herd mentality.
Person A: OMG NB so OP NEXT PATCH!!!
Person B: oh, I guess I'll make NB because Person A says it's gonna be "OP"
Person C: OMG everyone is rolling NB, I will too!
and so on...
I don't even remember the last time I lost to a NB on my Templar (not counting PTS with 600ms latency).
Also this is funny. By this then you have access to both magicka and stamina shield and 3 strong heals. But you were saying nb lacking them. Hmm...Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...) - but technically you might be correct here.
Major Evasion: ShuffleWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]4 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
SAVAGEEEEEEE level over 9000!!!!! +1
3 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I still don't understand what the OP wants here . Do you want other classes to have more access to abilities with perks to become more versatile like Nightblades ? Do you want something in particular removed from the Nightblades skill lines ? Or do you just want someone to say Nightblades are over powered because .... Chart ?
Then this can become a discussion , perhaps .3 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »I still don't understand what the OP wants here . Do you want other classes to have more access to abilities with perks to become more versatile like Nightblades ? Do you want something in particular removed from the Nightblades skill lines ? Or do you just want someone to say Nightblades are over powered because .... Chart ?
Then this can become a discussion , perhaps .
The first. EVERY class should be allowed to have as many build varieties as the NB currently offers.Edited by Moglijuana on May 10, 2016 11:17PM3 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »I still don't understand what the OP wants here . Do you want other classes to have more access to abilities with perks to become more versatile like Nightblades ? Do you want something in particular removed from the Nightblades skill lines ? Or do you just want someone to say Nightblades are over powered because .... Chart ?
Then this can become a discussion , perhaps .
The first. EVERY class should be allowed to have as many build varieties as the NB currently offers.
Is that your final answer ?
Wait ... You're not the OP . But yes , I haven't seen anyone say that's a bad idea here so far .Edited by Rohamad_Ali on May 10, 2016 11:22PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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That herd was saying Templar OP!!! a while ago. They played it in pts but after that I didnt see masses of people rerolled and retired all of their chars to play templar alone. Also by saying "herd" you are fooling people. Anyone who have eyes and ability to read(and possibly understanding of game mechanics) can see the difference how each class performs in various scenarios.
Lol it's popular because it's overpowered. Why would anyone reroll mediocre class with masses? Your logic fails here.So many buffs, yet they miss the one that makes you unkillable in PvP: Major Mending.
All of the other buffs aren't unique to the Nightblade class and can be found in the weapon skill lines (what's wrong with them btw?)
I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
Currently, Stamina Nightblade is good at one thing and one thing only: ganking. If you can't instagib your opponent, you'll lose in the long run because you heal for 25% less than your opponents & you can't really match the Jabs DPS (which is better than Surprise Attack if you have the Templar Ransack the NB first), let alone DK DoTs which absolutely decimate the NB.
Only thing Nightblades are at the moment is popular.
And popular=/="overpowered"
Because there's a herd mentality.
Person A: OMG NB so OP NEXT PATCH!!!
Person B: oh, I guess I'll make NB because Person A says it's gonna be "OP"
Person C: OMG everyone is rolling NB, I will too!
and so on...
I don't even remember the last time I lost to a NB on my Templar (not counting PTS with 600ms latency).
Also this is funny. By this then you have access to both magicka and stamina shield and 3 strong heals. But you were saying nb lacking them. Hmm...Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...) - but technically you might be correct here.
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Well, what can I say... sometimes the hype train catches on, sometimes it doesn't.
Funny enough, with Templar it actually turned out to be true: it is one of the strongest classes in PvP at the moment, able to 1vX and 1v1 vs anyone. NB can do that only against people they can instagib (sadly for NBs, my templar isn't one of them).0 -
Suru✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Of course! @Jules
Nightblades have always been insanely OP and anyone who played in the early days of the game and knew who King of Thieves, Murdo, and Araxleon know this full well.
Try fighting a Nightblade as a Magicka DK....I have no burst, I have to play defensive...I have to play out of my mind to win, i make one mistake i lose, he can make multiple mistakes and still win....he is on the offensive 80% of the fight, i have to play perfect and wait for the perfect opening to kill him...his Suprise Attack spam renders all my armor useless, He also has an AOE Hard CC that ignores my block, forces me to lose control of my toon, has a delay before it can be broken, snares me 50% and inflicts me with Minor maim to just add icing to the cheese cake.
When i run into a Nightblade, its not my fight to win, its his fight to lose....before anyone chimes in with dueling, i don't care about duels, duels mean nothing, the only thing that matters is open world pvp and folks don't wear the same gear or slot the same skills in duels as they do in just standard open world game play.
Hey just because im a Nightblade i get 15% more Health, Magic and Stamina Recovery, don't even have to slot anything...my DK has to slot an ability just to get a measly 5% Health Recovery which is useless.
I stopped leveling my Nightblade at level 24 4 months ago because it was stupidly OP...anyone can learn how to AC and land 3-4 attacks on someone at once insta-killing them out of stealth.
With nearly 29k Health, almost 20k Armor(before buffed) All Impen Gold Gear and 60+ points in Hardy and 30+ points in Resistant a Nightblade still hit me for 23k+ Damage with a Stealth Attack while I was buffed with Spiked Armor(add another 5,280 Armor)I had to play out of my mind to win that encounter....give me a break...and Nightblades have the audacity to complain about Radiant Destruction? get real!
...Suprise Attack is just face roll DPS spam as @Xylena put it...its really a joke...
Stamina Nightblade is the most powerful class spec in the game by a large margin...Stamina DK is in second but they are a very long way down the totem pole to second place....
80% of Cyrodiil will be Nightblades next update...Surprise Attack spam alone will kill 6 out of 10 players easily, Nightblades will be worse then they were in the IC update...its going to be comical....
Not to mention the new poisons being introduce favor stealth gank gameplay.(which is far too strong as it is)...Archers will pew pew you hidden from range, infect you with a poison that makes all your skills cost 60% more, while he takes half your health and then moves in for the 1 shot kill.
This whole thing is so stupidly broken they might as well rename the game Call of Duty Online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo
This right here shouldn't even be possible...guy is wearing 5 Heavy Armor on the Vid and is still insta-killed. I don't care if they are Emp or not...that right there is what is broken about Stealth gameplay, and it will only get worse with the next update.
Yeh, but on top of all that you said which is bang on, look at survivability element.
Cloak, vigor, rally - they're back to full health. Just like that. Then back on the offence, starting with heavy damage from stealth. Throw in dodge and shuffle, bow or double take for speed abd they literally have it all. Stam nb is beyond broken. It's a joke. Really is.
One healing debuff can be crippling, we dont have a purge so as a stamina nightblade cloak roll dodgeing helps but you don't always get to stay in stealth long enough to get healed up fully when fighting people.
On the list of stam abilities it forgot to list Corrisive armor for DK's, and possible Repent for Templars. What is considered a stamina ability is very arbitrary. If it cost magika but benefits stamina builds does it go on that list (relentless), so if an ability is free, but benefits stamina that should go on the list aswell (repent)?
Maybe go deeper and post passives which affect stam too?
This post does display a lot of what the kit of a nightblade does have but is also misleading and does not provide a bigger picture which is pretty ignorant. Saying somthingis "OP" with a laundry list of buffs. Every other class has an additional list of things in their kit that is not found in the buff list but in their abilities and passives.
Short Example
Templars have a purge (up to 5 debuffs), instant stamina return depending on the amount dead and the use of a simple synergy
Dragon knights have block mitigation passives, instant resource return when using an ultimate, 100% physical penetration, limiting damage to only 3% of your HP
Sorcs can create space, stack shield, silence
When you look at this list, almost every single buff is found in a single ability alone; abilities you would probably never have on your bars most of the time while the other classes have a couple buffs and bonuses compacted into single abilities and passives.
Major defile, AoE, Increased damage, Resource return with banner.
Unbreakable silence, AoE damage and damage reduction, spell pen, minor buffs for all regens and major expedition(I think) depending on what morphs you choose with Negate.
Major Mending and minor vitality with Rune Focus, Minor buffs of all regens and majors depending on what morph of repent you choose. Cleanse for the whole party which provides major mending for the Templar, passive snare, AoE heal, AoE snare, and AoE damage with purifying.
Sorry I went on sort of a tangent here, but just my two cents. Nightblades have a lot of buffs, but we are uniquely different. Every class has their own powerful kit.Edited by Suru on May 10, 2016 11:32PM
Suru4 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Moglijuana wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »I still don't understand what the OP wants here . Do you want other classes to have more access to abilities with perks to become more versatile like Nightblades ? Do you want something in particular removed from the Nightblades skill lines ? Or do you just want someone to say Nightblades are over powered because .... Chart ?
Then this can become a discussion , perhaps .
The first. EVERY class should be allowed to have as many build varieties as the NB currently offers.
Is that your final answer ?
That's MY final answer yes. Pretty sure that's what the chart is trying to explain. NB's are far from being OP, but they are probably the most balanced out of all 4 classes...BECAUSE they have access to every important Major/Minor needed to offer the most utility in every role of the game. Every class should be just as effective at every role as well but they still need to keep their class Identity. Currently, that is not the case.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »Moglijuana wrote: »Roehamad_Ali wrote: »I still don't understand what the OP wants here . Do you want other classes to have more access to abilities with perks to become more versatile like Nightblades ? Do you want something in particular removed from the Nightblades skill lines ? Or do you just want someone to say Nightblades are over powered because .... Chart ?
Then this can become a discussion , perhaps .
The first. EVERY class should be allowed to have as many build varieties as the NB currently offers.
Is that your final answer ?
That's MY final answer yes. Pretty sure that's what the chart is trying to explain. NB's are far from being OP, but they are probably the most balanced out of all 4 classes...BECAUSE they have access to every important Major/Minor needed to offer the most utility in every role of the game. Every class should be just as effective at every role as well but they still need to keep their class Identity. Currently, that is not the case.
Jolly good then Sir . I cannot argue with sound logic caressed by definitive clarification. ...1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't think nightblades are too "OP". I think people screaming that something is "OP" is what leads to devastating nerfs, and that isn't needed at all. What I think needs to be looked at is how well nightblade is balanced between the stamina toolkit it has and the magicka toolkit is has, and then that balance needs to be considered when working on the rest of the classes.
Screaming and kicking and throwing a fit for nerfs and such is not the way to go. We see what it did to DK. How about we buff what is lacking in the other classes and bring them all to a more balanced point.
Just my opinion.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.7 -
blabafat✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, I have seen multiple comments about Nightblade being balanced in that it has everything, and other classes should be brought UP to par instead of introducing nerfs to Nightblade.
Before I talk about my thoughts, I'd like to point out that whenever we are calling something "OP" or "Underpowered," it's relative to everything else. Nightblade is considered OP in COMPARISON to the other classes, for example. If everyone's health was brought up to 50K, and an ultimate ability is only doing 4K, that ultimate is considered Underpowered because it deals such an insignificant amount of damage (in relation to how much health there is). It's purely subjective and based upon what the context is.
With that being said
To everyone that is saying Sorc/Temp/DK need to be brought up to par:
As you see in this spreadsheet, Nightblade has way more buffs/tools at its disposal compared to the other classes. There is no denying that - it's plain and clear. The suggestion has been brought up - Make everything as strong as NB, instead of nerfing NB. Well, there is a problem with that - making everything similar completely contradicts the concept of classes. Classes are in the game for a reason. Each class has its own highlights, or class defining skills/passives.
For example, Nightblades do not have a burst heal or shield. Templar has the best burst heal and a shield (weak one). Sorcerers have the best shield but no heals. DK's have a physical ultimate, but they lack an execute.
Each class excels in some areas but lacks in others. That's what makes the classes, and I think the fact that Nightblade excels in more (than other classes) and lacks in less areas (than other classes) causes people to make the claim, "Nightblade is OP."
So, to the people that want every other class to be buffed over a nerf to Nightblades - let's take an aspect or two that is called OP.
Damage - Nightblade's damage (or ability to push damage very high) is a heated topic. By applying the solution listed above, every class would have to have the same amount of damage capability as Nightblade. Would this solve the issues of being 1 shot or insane damage numbers? No, of course not. It would only make the problem more apparent. You might say, "Why don't we do that, and then raise health?" Well, why would we when the simple solution is to lower the damage capability that a Nightblade has?
Passives - Nightblade has passives that increase Max Health, Max Magicka, Crit Damage, and Health/Magic/Stamina Regeneration (15% across the board). Again, apply the solution here: Make every class have similar passives to create "balance." Okay. In that case, the already apparent problem of resource management (being too easy) would only be worsened. EVERY class would have higher max stats. EVERY class would have more damage.
All in all, my opinion on Nightblades and what should be done:
Do not nerf them like Magic DK was nerfed. Take each aspect at a time, and think about what is overperforming (in relation to other classes). Simply making everything comparable to Nightblade IS NOT the solution. It would only be another band aid fix that wouldn't solve the problems.
EDIT - if you are replying or referencing this thread, please include @blabafat so I get a notification. ThanksEdited by blabafat on May 11, 2016 12:27AMFire Cloak - VR12 DK - Nord - EP
Ámeer - VR15 Templar - Imperial - AD
The Mágician - VR16 Templar - Imperial DC
Magíc - VR16 DK - Dark Elf - DC
Àmeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - DC
ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - AD
Æ ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - EP
Ameer Flow - Level 34 Nightblade - High Elf - EP
Youtube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCFNmXCgmTVo-T-p1BIVLxbQ5 -
blabafat✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DisgracefulMind Completely agree with Bee about screaming for nerfs. Like she said, Magic DK is a perfect example of what results from crying for nerfs.Fire Cloak - VR12 DK - Nord - EP
Ámeer - VR15 Templar - Imperial - AD
The Mágician - VR16 Templar - Imperial DC
Magíc - VR16 DK - Dark Elf - DC
Àmeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - DC
ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - AD
Æ ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - EP
Ameer Flow - Level 34 Nightblade - High Elf - EP
Youtube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCFNmXCgmTVo-T-p1BIVLxbQ3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke You've got to be really bad at PvP to think Nightblades need any sort of buff.... sorry lol.
They are very powerful right now and made even more so from the Dark Brotherhood changes.
They need some of those insane Passives nerfed, or preferably other classes brought up to par. DK is pretty great as well, but Templar and Sorcerer need some heavy Passive Skill reworking.3 -
Lyar09✭✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
Your class literally has everything at its disposal yet you want more. This thread is about class utility and you spout off weapon abilities to match what other classes lack.
Nightblade doesn't deserve major mending because you have cloak. Whether it decides to work or not, cloak literally pulls you out of combat. You can buff and heal while in cloak and come back out with your "unsustainable" burst damage.
Also, comparing dawnbreaker and incap? Dawnbreaker costs twice as much, doesn't apply a heal debuff, and doesn't increase the caster's damage by 20% for 6 seconds.
Every patch since 1.5, nightblade has received nothing but buffs while other classes have been nerfed to the ground. Nightblade as a whole has been reduced to a pretty much easy button.
The sad thing is, this list (job well done Jules) doesn't even depict what makes nightblades op. Your passives are out of this world crazy. If it is in agreeance that the other classes should be brought up to the same utility and passives as nightblade, then I'm pretty positive there will be a major shift in what classes are played. Simply put, there won't be as many nightblades. Have a nice day peeps. Lyar out.
*mic drop*
[Edited to remove baiting]Edited by [Deleted User] on May 11, 2016 1:52AMPC/NA | twitch.tv/ohhlyar | youtube.com/lyaryt4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Doncellius wrote: »@DDuke You've got to be really bad at PvP to think Nightblades need any sort of buff.... sorry lol.
They are very powerful right now and made even more so from the Dark Brotherhood changes.
They need some of those insane Passives nerfed, or preferably other classes brought up to par. DK is pretty great as well, but Templar and Sorcerer need some heavy Passive Skill reworking.
Oh the classic "you are bad at PvP" argument. I guess you don't know who you're talking to - that's ok.
If NB was as strong as people say - then why would I be farming them on my Templar rather than playing my NB, which I enjoy much more?
If you want to see the days when NB was actually strong & capable of beating anyone in 1v1 & 1vX, then I have plenty of videos on my channel from those days.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
Your class literally has everything at its disposal yet you want more. This thread is about class utility and you spout off weapon abilities to match what other classes lack.
Nightblade doesn't deserve major mending because you have cloak. Whether it decides to work or not, cloak literally pulls you out of combat. You can buff and heal while in cloak and come back out with your "unsustainable" burst damage.
Also, comparing dawnbreaker and incap? Dawnbreaker costs twice as much, doesn't apply a heal debuff, and doesn't increase the caster's damage by 20% for 6 seconds.
Every patch since 1.5, nightblade has received nothing but buffs while other classes have been nerfed to the ground. Nightblade as a whole has been reduced to a pretty much easy button.
The sad thing is, this list (job well done Jules) doesn't even depict what makes nightblades op. Your passives are out of this world crazy. If it is in agreeance that the other classes should be brought up to the same utility and passives as nightblade, then I'm pretty positive there will be a major shift in what classes are played. Simply put, there won't be as many nightblades. Have a nice day peeps. Lyar out.
*mic drop*
Your whole argument begins & ends with cloak.
It's buggy & doesn't work at the moment. Bug reports submitted, waiting for fix. End of story.
If you think you can heal while cloaked, then I regret to inform you that this isn't how it works in the real world, where instead of making you invisible it does nothing - and since you were at low health you die. End of story, again.
You don't need to apply heal debuff with Dawnbreaker, you can do that with Reverberating Bash (from the S&B skill line). Yes, it doesn't apply +20% damage taken on target but it does apply a 5k/second DoT.
A DoT you can't dodge, unlike every single attack in Nightblade repertoire (easy counter to Incap).
Rest of your post is just the same rhetoric as the majority of this thread - with little relevance to reality.
Please play this game some more before posting, so we can have more educated discussions here in the forums.Edited by DDuke on May 11, 2016 2:19AM4 -
blabafat✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DDuke No major mending, you are correct. However, if you use shadowy disguise, everything WHILE IN CLOAK will crit - including heals. I'm just pointing it out - nothing more nothing less.Fire Cloak - VR12 DK - Nord - EP
Ámeer - VR15 Templar - Imperial - AD
The Mágician - VR16 Templar - Imperial DC
Magíc - VR16 DK - Dark Elf - DC
Àmeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - DC
ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - AD
Æ ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - EP
Ameer Flow - Level 34 Nightblade - High Elf - EP
Youtube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCFNmXCgmTVo-T-p1BIVLxbQ6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke No major mending, you are correct. However, if you use shadowy disguise, everything WHILE IN CLOAK will crit - including heals. I'm just pointing it out - nothing more nothing less.
Which would be fine, if it actually worked.
90% of time when you cast cloak in PvP, it breaks instantly.3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
SAVAGEEEEEEE level over 9000!!!!! +1
1 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So many buffs, yet they miss the one that makes you unkillable in PvP: Major Mending.
All of the other buffs aren't unique to the Nightblade class and can be found in the weapon skill lines (what's wrong with them btw?)
I fail to see the purpose of this thread.
Currently, Stamina Nightblade is good at one thing and one thing only: ganking. If you can't instagib your opponent, you'll lose in the long run because you heal for 25% less than your opponents & you can't really match the Jabs DPS (which is better than Surprise Attack if you have the Templar Ransack the NB first), let alone DK DoTs which absolutely decimate the NB.
Only thing Nightblades are at the moment is popular.
And popular=/="overpowered"
Ooooh that's a potent statement. Has some truth to it too.
My current staffblade setup is pretty damned near unkillable without greater numbers because of the heals. I just realized that if I had access to Major Mending, it'd be like my Malubeth was procced all the time. Holy *** how is that buff balanced???
o.0Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
I mean....sure, we have lotsa buffs, but other classes currently outperform nightblade at everything except stealth ganking and proxy+VD bombing.
And the other classes are still pretty freakin good at those two things too. There is other context to take into account here than just "who has the buffs and who doesn't." You have to look at the big picture...
One way you could put it is "Nightblades are balanced around having tons of buffs available, and the other classes aren't (to some extent)." Or another equivalent statement: "In order to be balanced, Nightblades need to utilize many buffs from their kits where other classes don't (to some extent)." Nightblades' bars are just as competitive if not moreso than the other classes' bars, aside from maybe mDK. Sorry, but magicka DK masterrace needs some utility combined into fewer spells.
Edited by KenaPKK on May 11, 2016 12:46AMKena
Former Class Rep
Former Legend GM
Beta player2 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
Nightblade as a whole has been reduced to a pretty much easy button.
le sigh...
is tru
This is why I try so hard to play the complete opposite of what other nightblades are doing.Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
Your passives are out of this world crazy.
Correction, our passives are what is called "good." DKs also have such passives, as do magicka sorcs (kind of). WTB "good" templar and stam sorc passives.
If it is in agreement that the other classes should be brought up to the same utility and passives as nightblade, then I'm pretty positive there will be a major shift in what classes are played. Simply put, there won't be as many nightblades.Summary of this thread's comments-
NBs- "sure, its got the best sustain, really great damage, decent escape and mobility, all these options and diversity, they are good at everything and access to all these buffs that other classes don't have. But that doesn't make it OP!!! GOD NO!!!"
Everyone else- *eyeroll*
And I dare you to list one buff that other classes don't have access to but NBs do.
Can we stop the NB hate please?
You didn't double dog dare me, but I took you up on it anyway.
Major breach. Major Protection. Major Evasion. Next question?
Well, wrong answer.
Major Breach: Weakness to Elements
Major Protection: "kind of" Empowering Sweep (can be half the value, or double the value...)
Major Evasion: Shuffle
Sweetheart.
Listing things that every class has access to through weapon/armor lines does not prove your point. NB's have exclusive access to these buffs through class skills which come with strong passives to accompany them.
Ehm, the weapon skill lines are there for a reason: so that people use them. They are not a decoration.
And most of the skills there are definitely strong & worth using.
...or would you rather use Power Extraction for Major Brutality than Rally?
Case closed.
Now you're just splitting hairs and fishing for excuses in defense of a clear NB advantage. Lol, over here talking about power extraction vs rally as if that's the conversation we're having. You can't get me off topic but it's adorable that you're trying so hard. If you wanna stay on topic let me know. I'm always around to throw down.
Well, it'd help to know what the topic actually is. "NBs are op" is awfully vague.
Perhaps you could point out what exactly is wrong with NBs?
Do they deal more burst than other classes?
Do they heal for more than other classes?
Do they have better sustained damage than other classes?
Because I probably have a very differing opinion on all the three questions above.
Burst: DBOS>Incap Strike. It's really that simple. Sure, it doesn't add the Major Defile on top of it - but players with proper builds will have Rev Bashed you anyway before that DBOS.
Healing: Quite self-explanatory, no Major Mending=less healing. No unique class heals.
Sustained damage: Currently, stamina nightblades are considered the weakest PvE DPS. As far as I know, I'm the only stamina nightblade to ever even complete vMoL. That's how weak it currently is compared to stamina DKs/Templars, that can dish out double the sustained DPS of a NB. - Since we're talking of sustained DPS, this applies to PvP as well. Stamina NBs quite simply don't have any powerful class DoTs, and even Rapid Strikes deals more DPS than Surprise Attack.
So... what else is there?
Damage avoidance - this used to be the strong suit of NBs, but not really anymore with cloak being in the current buggy state.
Mobility - still the best of all stam builds - sadly doesn't help much in things other than escaping.
So yeah, there's stamblade for you. I don't really see what makes it "OP", perhaps you can enlighten us
yes plsEdited by KenaPKK on May 11, 2016 12:52AMKena
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Former Legend GM
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