Restore Bracing - Never Ask for Buffs

zerosingularity · May 2016

Here is how it's gonna work:

LA - Magicka Tanking
MA - Stamina Tanking
HA - Hybrid Tanking

The attempt seems to be to make all armor types 100% viable for tanking, which is just wrong. Someone in LA and MA should NOT be able to PvE tank, it makes no logical sense. Are tanks made of paper/cardboard? No! They are made with steel! (The cannon on top is just an overloading Sorc, nothing to worry about.)

The CP change I can see from a PvP perspective, to make resources harder so people need to drop some deeps for sustain. Unfortunately, this kicks PvE tanks in the ...I dunno! We don't have anything anymore! Maybe if we had 25% stam regen while blocking in PvE then things would be OK for tanks. (As it is now, Hircine's Veneer and any food with stam regen just hurts the tank instead of helping.)

None of this addresses the fact that HA needs some love. While I get that there is supposed to be a play how you want thing going on, I feel that wanting LA and MA to be viable for tanking is wrong, and the decision to do this is wrong. Since that will NOT change though, make HA BETTER that the others at tanking, because a tank SHOULD he wearing HA.

Perhaps as an idea to make HA the more go to type for tanking in PvE, make it so we have at least 25% stam regen while blocking in 5pc HA - and if you are so worried about PvP, have this suppressed by Battle Spirit. Alternatively, have the Constitution passive scale with stamina/magicka recovery (up to a max!), where each point confers a certain amount of increased resource return. Say 1k resource recovery = 100 more resource returned on proc or something, this way we do not feel like HA and our resources are getting the shaft.

Give us some love.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

zerosingularity wrote: »

The CP change I can see from a PvP perspective, to make resources harder so people need to drop some deeps for sustain. Unfortunately, this kicks PvE tanks in the ...I dunno! We don't have anything anymore! Maybe if we had 25% stam regen while blocking in PvE then things would be OK for tanks. (As it is now, Hircine's Veneer and any food with stam regen just hurts the tank instead of helping.)

@Wrobel ,

The above post made my laugh.

"We don't have anything anymore!"

It's like neutering an animal.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

@zerosingularity @Forestd16b14_ESO

Heavy armor still needs a love

Ra'Shtar · May 2016

zerosingularity wrote: »

Here is how it's gonna work:

LA - Magicka Tanking
MA - Stamina Tanking
HA - Hybrid Tanking

The attempt seems to be to make all armor types 100% viable for tanking, which is just wrong. Someone in LA and MA should NOT be able to PvE tank, it makes no logical sense.

To be honest if the roll dodge nerf wasn't a thing there would be many builds for a dodge based tank using medium armor.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn

I just asked a friend that if tanks were hypothetically nerfed via the champion point system having a passive switch, then what they think would happen.

The said, "block cost reduction moved to the green trees"

ding ding ding

imapogostick · May 2016

How about just making a set armor that reduces blocking cost. Tadah problem solved

imapogostick · May 2016

How about just making a set armor that reduces blocking cost. Tadah problem solved

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

imapogostick wrote: »

How about just making a set armor that reduces blocking cost. Tadah problem solved

@imapogostick

God I hope you're kidding, but since ZOS actually does seem to think that way it's hard for me to be certain...

quadraxis666 · May 2016

@Wrobel It's really not ok to ignore this.
We DESERVE an explanation. No scratch that, just revert the change.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

@Wrobel ,

BTW, nerfing bracing is a nerf to anyone that wants to run staff, greatsword, or bow on their tanking off bar.

Previously we would just lose fortress for switching to a non-sword and board bar.

Now we lose fortress, but also just won't outright have block cost mitigation at all because bracing nerf.

This makes tanking with a non-sword and board in the off bar alot less interesting and, currently, doing a non-s&b off bar is one of the most interesting things for tanks to consider. This change will have less of us using non-S&B off bars and, as a result, we will be putting out less damage.

The effect is the opposite, in this case, of what you try to achieve.

Oompuh · May 2016

From the April Fools Patch Notes:

Combat & Gameplay

General

Fixed an issue related to stamina recovery and block, by removing block.

I guess it's coming after all.

imapogostick · May 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

How about just making a set armor that reduces blocking cost. Tadah problem solved

@imapogostick

God I hope you're kidding, but since ZOS actually does seem to think that way it's hard for me to be certain...

Yes I'm kidding, lol

Personofsecrets · May 2016

Oompuh wrote: »

From the April Fools Patch Notes:

Combat & Gameplay

General

Fixed an issue related to stamina recovery and block, by removing block.

I guess it's coming after all.

lol

NBrookus · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Well now with the changes in this version of the PTS... I now will no longer be Tanking for any one.. I have also cancelled my Sub.

Wrobel needs to stop screwing the pooch!!! He obviously has no clue how things work in this game outside his little bubble!

I am thinking it is time that ZOS got rid of certain employees and gets some fresh blood that knows what the hell they are doing before this game goes belly up.

Frankly, at this point, I think when DB is released, any one who tanks should actually stop doing so and then we shall see just how bad the wait times for the group finder really gets. Maybe then, just Maybe, they will start actually listening to us instead of trying to give up bait and switches.

I'm sorry that you feel bad enough to cancel (many of us have), but hope that your message sends a loud and clear signal.

Pretty close to hanging up my shield. There's really no point left in chasing whatever loopholes ZOS has left to still tank, they'll just screw with us again in 3 months. And my DK already has a nice gold suit of Julianos, no need to grind.

And hey, my other main toon is a sorc, so I'm really feeling the love.

I was going to subscribe for crafting bags, but I honestly don't want to give them more money at this point. DB certainly has nothing of interest for me. Maybe mules and the inventory dance aren't so bad after all.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Well now with the changes in this version of the PTS... I now will no longer be Tanking for any one.. I have also cancelled my Sub.

Wrobel needs to stop screwing the pooch!!! He obviously has no clue how things work in this game outside his little bubble!

I am thinking it is time that ZOS got rid of certain employees and gets some fresh blood that knows what the hell they are doing before this game goes belly up.

Frankly, at this point, I think when DB is released, any one who tanks should actually stop doing so and then we shall see just how bad the wait times for the group finder really gets. Maybe then, just Maybe, they will start actually listening to us instead of trying to give up bait and switches.

I'm sorry that you feel bad enough to cancel (many of us have), but hope that your message sends a loud and clear signal.

Pretty close to hanging up my shield. There's really no point left in chasing whatever loopholes ZOS has left to still tank, they'll just screw with us again in 3 months. And my DK already has a nice gold suit of Julianos, no need to grind.

And hey, my other main toon is a sorc, so I'm really feeling the love.

I was going to subscribe for crafting bags, but I honestly don't want to give them more money at this point. DB certainly has nothing of interest for me. Maybe mules and the inventory dance aren't so bad after all.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel , only incentives will get players into tanking

NBrookus · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Well now with the changes in this version of the PTS... I now will no longer be Tanking for any one.. I have also cancelled my Sub.

Wrobel needs to stop screwing the pooch!!! He obviously has no clue how things work in this game outside his little bubble!

I am thinking it is time that ZOS got rid of certain employees and gets some fresh blood that knows what the hell they are doing before this game goes belly up.

Frankly, at this point, I think when DB is released, any one who tanks should actually stop doing so and then we shall see just how bad the wait times for the group finder really gets. Maybe then, just Maybe, they will start actually listening to us instead of trying to give up bait and switches.

I'm sorry that you feel bad enough to cancel (many of us have), but hope that your message sends a loud and clear signal.

Pretty close to hanging up my shield. There's really no point left in chasing whatever loopholes ZOS has left to still tank, they'll just screw with us again in 3 months. And my DK already has a nice gold suit of Julianos, no need to grind.

And hey, my other main toon is a sorc, so I'm really feeling the love.

I was going to subscribe for crafting bags, but I honestly don't want to give them more money at this point. DB certainly has nothing of interest for me. Maybe mules and the inventory dance aren't so bad after all.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel , only incentives will get players into tanking

I don't need incentives to tank. I LIKE tanking. I WANT to tank. I LOVE that effective tanking requires prioritization and positioning.

What I NEED is content that doesn't need tanks to be good DDs (WGT, Darkshade, Volenfell), then be hit with nerfs that make it nearly impossible to be both. What I NEED is for the game not to penalize tanks by making every quest about doing lots of damage or sneaking by it, or to get lower rewards for effectively tanking dangerous targets (IC). What I NEED is for tanking not to be more expensive than any other role, without a suitable counterbalance of compensation. What I NEED is to not be completely rethinking and respeccing my build every three months on an apparent developer whim, at enormous in-game cost, never knowing when I'm going to be smacked again.

Cinbri · May 2016

Nwm

Teridaxus · May 2016

Please just revert all tanking changes ( even the good ones if you must ) and leave us alone zos.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

Please just revert all tanking changes ( even the good ones if you must ) and leave us alone zos.

Yea, these changes are out of control

Personofsecrets · May 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Well now with the changes in this version of the PTS... I now will no longer be Tanking for any one.. I have also cancelled my Sub.

Wrobel needs to stop screwing the pooch!!! He obviously has no clue how things work in this game outside his little bubble!

I am thinking it is time that ZOS got rid of certain employees and gets some fresh blood that knows what the hell they are doing before this game goes belly up.

Frankly, at this point, I think when DB is released, any one who tanks should actually stop doing so and then we shall see just how bad the wait times for the group finder really gets. Maybe then, just Maybe, they will start actually listening to us instead of trying to give up bait and switches.

I'm sorry that you feel bad enough to cancel (many of us have), but hope that your message sends a loud and clear signal.

Pretty close to hanging up my shield. There's really no point left in chasing whatever loopholes ZOS has left to still tank, they'll just screw with us again in 3 months. And my DK already has a nice gold suit of Julianos, no need to grind.

And hey, my other main toon is a sorc, so I'm really feeling the love.

I was going to subscribe for crafting bags, but I honestly don't want to give them more money at this point. DB certainly has nothing of interest for me. Maybe mules and the inventory dance aren't so bad after all.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel , only incentives will get players into tanking

I don't need incentives to tank. I LIKE tanking. I WANT to tank. I LOVE that effective tanking requires prioritization and positioning.

What I NEED is content that doesn't need tanks to be good DDs (WGT, Darkshade, Volenfell), then be hit with nerfs that make it nearly impossible to be both. What I NEED is for the game not to penalize tanks by making every quest about doing lots of damage or sneaking by it, or to get lower rewards for effectively tanking dangerous targets (IC). What I NEED is for tanking not to be more expensive than any other role, without a suitable counterbalance of compensation. What I NEED is to not be completely rethinking and respeccing my build every three months on an apparent developer whim, at enormous in-game cost, never knowing when I'm going to be smacked again.

Having to change is one thing.

Having to change because of nerfs, especially when we shouldnt be getting nerfs at all, is silly.

@ZOS_RichLambert , ever hear the old saying that what doesnt kill us leaves a scar?

WolfingHour · May 2016

Yes, let's carry on "balancing" the one role that is seeing less and less play/demand outside of 3 vet dungeons (not all encounters though) and 4 trials.

I'm sure that will make up for a healthy and balanced player base with regards to roles.

lonewolf26 · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's like neutering an animal.

Perhaps they misunderstood us when we asked them repeatedly to "fix" tanks.

zerosingularity · May 2016

Should the devs still be monitoring this thread, I have a request. Since the Sturdy trait is not currently additive yet should be, could we get the official formula for block cost (since we won't have time to solve it). This way we can see how much block cost reduction in the new green CP tree we actually need to be effective. I see no reason to withhold this information since it will be figured out once the bug is fixed, yet because of said bug, we cannot figure it out.

VaxtinTheWolf · May 2016

I am streaming atm, Not sure what else to do alone than attempt solo 4-man dungeons like the banished cells. Running an Argonian NB Tank template (5 heavy, 2 light) on the PTS, And although I don't block constantly, When I am blocking I do feel the loss.

On live I have 15% in block cost reduction, on the template I have about 6% due to the champion treee changes. Even though I'm magicka based I'm running low on resources when Siphoning attacks refuses to proc for me, and I'm using engine guardian as well to try for more sustain. My 5 piece it the Twilights +10% incoming healing crafted set, and think I might go back to seducers. that reduction helps a lot.

Compared to my live setup, I do have much more spell power on the PTS due to various changes, but even so I dont think some of these recent changed took into account the magicka tanks. Maybe Stamina Tanks will be able to "deal with" those things better than I can.

Technically I am making a working build, but I feel my resources are more strained in some situations, again especially when I get no triggers for resource return.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

I am streaming atm, Not sure what else to do alone than attempt solo 4-man dungeons like the banished cells. Running an Argonian NB Tank template (5 heavy, 2 light) on the PTS, And although I don't block constantly, When I am blocking I do feel the loss.

On live I have 15% in block cost reduction, on the template I have about 6% due to the champion treee changes. Even though I'm magicka based I'm running low on resources when Siphoning attacks refuses to proc for me, and I'm using engine guardian as well to try for more sustain. My 5 piece it the Twilights +10% incoming healing crafted set, and think I might go back to seducers. that reduction helps a lot.

Compared to my live setup, I do have much more spell power on the PTS due to various changes, but even so I dont think some of these recent changed took into account the magicka tanks. Maybe Stamina Tanks will be able to "deal with" those things better than I can.

Technically I am making a working build, but I feel my resources are more strained in some situations, again especially when I get no triggers for resource return.

This is a tough time for many of us.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

@Wrobel ,

the changes to Bracing and the CP passives make my PVP HA build less powerful, not more.

It about striking a balance between multiple stats and the recent nerfs diminish that balance and in exchange for what exactly?

quadraxis666 · May 2016

We seriously still have no answer here? WOW

sebban · May 2016

quadraxis666 wrote: »

We seriously still have no answer here? WOW

I guess we'll have to make another 20 pages before we get another response.

ManDraKE · May 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Wrobel ,

the changes to Bracing and the CP passives make my PVP HA build less powerful, not more.

It about striking a balance between multiple stats and the recent nerfs diminish that balance and in exchange for what exactly?

I have an idea, a very crazy one, what if you..... CHANGE YOUR BUILD! ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh crazy right? is like if game balance wasn't based around your build/playstyle.

Personofsecrets · May 2016

ManDraKE wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Wrobel ,

the changes to Bracing and the CP passives make my PVP HA build less powerful, not more.

It about striking a balance between multiple stats and the recent nerfs diminish that balance and in exchange for what exactly?

I have an idea, a very crazy one, what if you..... CHANGE YOUR BUILD! ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh crazy right? is like if game balance wasn't based around your build/playstyle.

Slippery slopes are not allowed here. You can move right on.

P.S. Nice strawman argument. IDGA heck about my build or what is the best to use. I use different builds, even ones that I don't necessarily like, all of the time. I do care about becoming less powerful as a result of nerfs when players were strung along by the developers and sold on the idea that buffs were coming. If you want to be reduced to digging through the dirt for sustenance, then be my guest, but I won't be reduced to that level without first trying to stop it and keep the deveopers true.