How to inspect other players?

starkerealm · May 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Always a fabulous answer.

It SWTOR I had started inspecting gear to see how players were gearing. Found a healer in the top tier gear that maybe 5% of the server had at the time.

After a bit I started talking with him and learned much from the conversations. Funny how non-elitist the elite players really are. Lol

It's how we get better. Improve and get more out if the game.

Or we can bury our heads in the sand and enjoy that view.

Toxicity scales with the difficulty of the content, scarcity of rewards, and inversely with the competence of the players responsible for it.

If you have a game where one player being a fraction of a second too late can cause a team wipe, that's a recipe for toxic behavior. The more punitive the death penalties incurred for death, the more likely you'll see more toxicity.

If you have a situation where rewards for running the content are too small, then you will see players getting frustrated with the content. This can lead to toxic behavior, because of their frustration.

Incompetent players are more likely to ascribe their failures to other players in the team than themselves. Generally speaking, competent players, even ones who don't know the content and are struggling are less likely to lash out, as opposed to ones who insist they know what they're doing, but fly off the handle. This isn't an absolute, everyone has a breaking point, but... when you're setting things up at the beginning, it's relevant. This is probably some form of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Honestly, from what I remember of TOR, none of those issues really applied there. It rarely applies in ESO. Though, I have seen it really get out of hand in other MMOs in the past.

Magdalina · May 2016

There's no such option in ESO and you can see exactly why it's never going to happen right here in this thread, OP.

However, truth be told, I don't think it matters too much. If we're talking about actually challenging content, good gear won't make a good player(besides, if the person wear bad gear but is willing to listen and knows base game mechanics such as interrupting and blocking etc, there might be more hope for him than for that guy in BiS gear who STILL doesn't know those mechanics). I've seen a lot of people out there prove it - especially dps, those seem to get tunnel vision on numbers a lot; nothing like using all that uber gear and perfect rotation and dying every 20 seconds because they can't be bothered to block/move out of red. If we're talking about the other 99.999% of the game, it's okay, you can faceroll it with with a tank in 7/7 light and a bow just fine, and I'm sure ZOS will nerf the other 0.0001% to that state soon enough as well.

ToRelax · May 2016

.

Vigarr wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As has been stated many times before, even in this thread, why not just ask?

People aren't always nice enough to answer. I asked several people over the course of the game about their gear because I like the looks and didn't recognize the style yet only a couple actually answered me.

While I'm at it, can someone tell me what style has the 2 hand scythe? That was something I asked about and never got a reply.

Again, advocating for an inspect option based on other player's refusal to tell you about their gear is simply trying to rob them of the rights the game has given them so far.

And while you're at it, head over to eso-fashion, it's there.

Valrien · May 2016

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to be inspected simply has something to hide...meaning they're the kind of players to lie about what they can and can't do in a group.

ToRelax · May 2016

Valrien wrote: »

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to be inspected simply has something to hide...meaning they're the kind of players to lie about what they can and can't do in a group.

This is ever more bizarre. This is where that argument leads. Truly amazing you could even think of using it for a game that is supposed to be fun to as many players as possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

SirAndy · May 2016

Valrien wrote: »

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to be inspected simply has something to hide...meaning they're the kind of players to lie about what they can and can't do in a group.

You're implying that (after a quick glance) you know more about their build, gear choices and skills than they do.

Ever thought about the possibility that someone was able to make a build/gear/skill combination work well that you never dreamed of?

I said it before, a 5 second gear "inspection" does not give you any insights in the countless hours i spent optimizing my build.

Callous2208 · May 2016

Valrien wrote: »

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to be inspected simply has something to hide...meaning they're the kind of players to lie about what they can and can't do in a group.

The way I see it, anyone that hell bent on inspecting me, is looking to make sure I can carry their sorry ass. Meaning, they're the type of terrible player that no guildie wants to run with, so they're playing pug commander.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

[

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After a bit I started talking with him and learned much from the conversations. Funny how non-elitist the elite players really are. Lol

This is true in this game as well, for the most part anyway.
I'm pretty much convinced that those feared pug elitists are just average players who want to seem "super cool" or something. But they would start drama over gear inspection and will probably kick players because of cp numbers when it will be visible.
And also gear doesnt guarantee that the player is adequate and is good at playing his or her class.
So imo this feature is not really needed.

Dromede · May 2016

LOL you guys. Do you expect that as soon as this option is introduced, you'll start getting tons of attention just because? Lighten up, no one cares about you and your build most of the time.

Unless you're in a group, when you -god forbid- are expected to fulfill a role and a certain level of expectations to complete endgame content.

ArchMikem · May 2016

lathbury wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

yeah it would suck if we were able to know someone was a bad player before wasting an hour to get a group and wipe repeatedly just to find out our tank is essentially another dps with bad numbers. much better the way it is where everyone gets to waste there game time.

I've seen people say they've done Dungeons and Trials hundreds of times. How is one bad run due to a struggling player a waste of time?

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

@Callous2208 Pug Commander hahahahahaha sorry I have to steal this from you and use it in other places. It's too tempting

Callous2208 · May 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Callous2208 Pug Commander hahahahahaha sorry I have to steal this from you and use it in other places. It's too tempting

Haha, I hoped it would get some further use. Throw it around as you please!

Shunravi · May 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

The way I see it, anyone who refuses to be inspected simply has something to hide...meaning they're the kind of players to lie about what they can and can't do in a group.

The way I see it, anyone that hell bent on inspecting me, is looking to make sure I can carry their sorry ass. Meaning, they're the type of terrible player that no guildie wants to run with, so they're playing pug commander.

Oh that's perfect. Well said.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

Honestly it isnt like it will ever be added. Not because of any of the threads like this. But because Zos cant even be bothered to add simple quality of life things like a buff/debuff tracker. Something like a gear score would be so far off in the future we would all be dead by then.

Taisynn · May 2016

Polysemy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Last thing we need is toxic casuals giving good players a bad name

Toxic? I'm sorry, but casuals are people who work and in a large part those working people pay for the game and then some. They have families to dedicate to. I'm not a casual, I play everyday, but if I had a family I sure would be one. There is nothing toxic about having more important priorities than a game.

And this inspect idea would be heavily abused; people would look at your gear and judge you on it. They would kick you from group finder groups just because you didn't have the gear they wanted you to wear, and in PVP people would scream at you for having an OP gearset and say you're hiding behind a gear wall and without it they'd defeat you.

ESO isn't a friendly community when it comes to gears and builds. It's "do what I want or GTFO." On a game meant to be relaxing and fun.

Bug off, Elite players. This game is supposed to be FUN and RELAXING that's why it's called a GAME.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Taisynn wrote: »

Polysemy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Last thing we need is toxic casuals giving good players a bad name

Toxic? I'm sorry, but casuals are people who work and in a large part those working people pay for the game and then some. They have families to dedicate to. I'm not a casual, I play everyday, but if I had a family I sure would be one. There is nothing toxic about having more important priorities than a game.

And this inspect idea would be heavily abused; people would look at your gear and judge you on it. They would kick you from group finder groups just because you didn't have the gear they wanted you to wear, and in PVP people would scream at you for having an OP gearset and say you're hiding behind a gear wall and without it they'd defeat you.

ESO isn't a friendly community when it comes to gears and builds. It's "do what I want or GTFO." On a game meant to be relaxing and fun.

Bug off, Elite players. This game is supposed to be FUN and RELAXING that's why it's called a GAME.

You speak a lot of truth, @Taisynn. I've been reading a couple your posts on numerous threads, and what you have to say is always constructive and truthful. Just figured I'd say that.

Also, I wanted to say that I'm a bit discouraged at the fact that some people would like to forcibly view another person's: Attributes, champion point allocations, gear, etc. Bad as it is some people get bullied because of their veteran levels, and I think this forcibly viewing another person's information could make matters a tad bit worse. The cons would outweigh the pros, even though there could maybe be pros to this concept.

Taisynn · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Taisynn wrote: »

Polysemy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Last thing we need is toxic casuals giving good players a bad name

Toxic? I'm sorry, but casuals are people who work and in a large part those working people pay for the game and then some. They have families to dedicate to. I'm not a casual, I play everyday, but if I had a family I sure would be one. There is nothing toxic about having more important priorities than a game.

And this inspect idea would be heavily abused; people would look at your gear and judge you on it. They would kick you from group finder groups just because you didn't have the gear they wanted you to wear, and in PVP people would scream at you for having an OP gearset and say you're hiding behind a gear wall and without it they'd defeat you.

ESO isn't a friendly community when it comes to gears and builds. It's "do what I want or GTFO." On a game meant to be relaxing and fun.

Bug off, Elite players. This game is supposed to be FUN and RELAXING that's why it's called a GAME.

You speak a lot of truth, @Taisynn. I've been reading a couple your posts on numerous threads, and what you have to say is always constructive and truthful. Just figured I'd say that.

Thank you for the compliment! I just speak from my opinion and my experience. I also try to put myself in other player's shoes and situations. I am not a perfect person, and I just try to embrace the fact everyone is different with different experiences.

Thank you!

Wreuntzylla · May 2016

In the balance, I prefer inspections because it provides new/casual players a tool to at least move closer towards being competitive.

No inspection option, player will be labeled bad and shunned after one run, with very little opportunity to improve. With inspection option, player will be labeled bad and shunned before one run, but can at least see the builds of the players doing the shunning.

I also like that you can detect cheating much more easily. As it is, the information we do receive exposes cheaters. Remember the many "git gud, "great players" in PvP busted for having mutliple mundus buffs without twice born star?

With respect to the 'build doesn't matter, only skill matters' crowd.... Skill only truly reveals itself when players are otherwise on an equal footing. Even among top tier players, builds can be decisibve in who wins. Sheliza finally being killed by a player using Durok's Bane... The last 1v1 tournament being dominated by shieldbreaker DKs...

Btw, you can already figure out most of what an enemy is wearing and what skills they are using in PvP with PC log addons. Inspection would just make it easier and let people see other things like CP and stat allocation.

On the downside, so easy to troll people. Spend an entire day using the group finder while having magicka skills on your bar while in heavy armor and using bow.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

In the balance, I prefer inspections because it provides new/casual players a tool to at least move closer towards being competitive.

No inspection option, player will be labeled bad and shunned after one run, with very little opportunity to improve. With inspection option, player will be labeled bad and shunned before one run, but can at least see the builds of the players doing the shunning.

I also like that you can detect cheating much more easily. As it is, the information we do receive exposes cheaters. Remember the many "git gud, "great players" in PvP busted for having mutliple mundus buffs without twice born star?

With respect to the 'build doesn't matter, only skill matters' crowd.... Skill only truly reveals itself when players are otherwise on an equal footing. Even among top tier players, builds can be decisibve in who wins. Sheliza finally being killed by a player using Durok's Bane... The last 1v1 tournament being dominated by shieldbreaker DKs...

Btw, you can already figure out most of what an enemy is wearing and what skills they are using in PvP with PC log addons. Inspection would just make it easier and let people see other things like CP and stat allocation.

On the downside, so easy to troll people. Spend an entire day using the group finder while having magicka skills on your bar while in heavy armor and using bow.

Well, for the new players there are forums - this one, reddit or tamrielfoundry.
Also, 1v1 pvp tournaments and casual activities like pledges etc are different things. And one doesnt need to have top notch gear to play casually and beat all content except vMoL. Of course, optimized builds and BiS gear are needed for the best results and all competitive players have it. But a new player wont have it all and 500 cps instantly.
Last but not least, I saw a lot of players who copied builds but couldnt play them. This is why I said that it doesnt matter that much. Not in general, but in casual/pug situations.

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

Toxic and bully being tossed around willy nilly.

Yet the people fighting against having the tool can be labeled as such.

Interesting.

IrishGirlGamer · May 2016

Taisynn wrote: »

Polysemy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Last thing we need is toxic casuals giving good players a bad name

Toxic? I'm sorry, but casuals are people who work and in a large part those working people pay for the game and then some. They have families to dedicate to. I'm not a casual, I play everyday, but if I had a family I sure would be one. There is nothing toxic about having more important priorities than a game.

And this inspect idea would be heavily abused; people would look at your gear and judge you on it. They would kick you from group finder groups just because you didn't have the gear they wanted you to wear, and in PVP people would scream at you for having an OP gearset and say you're hiding behind a gear wall and without it they'd defeat you.

ESO isn't a friendly community when it comes to gears and builds. It's "do what I want or GTFO." On a game meant to be relaxing and fun.

Bug off, Elite players. This game is supposed to be FUN and RELAXING that's why it's called a GAME.

Thanks for saying this.

I'm a casual. Strangely enough, I'm not ashamed of that. For me, the bigger personal shame would come from realizing all I did all day was play video games.

But really, why is this idea even a thing? What legitimate purpose would anyone have for inspecting someone else's armor, weapons, skills, etc. other than simple exclusion or ridicule? If you want to find out why they're so good, ask them. If you like their armor, ask. I've done this several times and people are happy to tell you.

This thread reminds me of a joke my dad used to tell:

So there was this man who lived his entire life trying to be as good as he could be. But he never joined the [insert church name here]. Every month, the pastor would come and try to get him to join, but he refused. Every week, the pastor would tell him was going to go to hell.

Finally, he died. To his surprise, he found himself in heaven. St. Peter greeted him warmly, complimented him for his life choices, and then offered to give him a tour. As they walked around heaven, the man kept noticing a very tall wall in the distance. When he could no longer contain his curiosity, he asked St. Peter what the wall was for.

St. Peter replied: "That's for the [church members]. They think they're the only ones here."

Thrasher91604 · May 2016

My experience with MMOs other than ESO is nil, and multiplayer online games pretty is limited, but I know that it really helped in ME3 being able to see other players' stats before starting a mission. We could recommend to the other player what he needs to change or boot him if it didn't look like we could cut it with him. Having neither a boot option nor inspect option really lowers the quality of the experience, I think. Also not having built in voice chat on PC, but that's another matter. The game just isn't set up very well for group play.

I think the key is having a variety of tools and mechanisms to provide and promote communication between the players. ESO is severely lacking that. Heck, there's not even a reply button in email. Just seems half-assed.

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Taisynn wrote: »

Polysemy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Not an Option and hopefully never will be, last thing we need are elitist's kicking people out of groups for not having optimal gear.

Last thing we need is toxic casuals giving good players a bad name

Toxic? I'm sorry, but casuals are people who work and in a large part those working people pay for the game and then some. They have families to dedicate to. I'm not a casual, I play everyday, but if I had a family I sure would be one. There is nothing toxic about having more important priorities than a game.

And this inspect idea would be heavily abused; people would look at your gear and judge you on it. They would kick you from group finder groups just because you didn't have the gear they wanted you to wear, and in PVP people would scream at you for having an OP gearset and say you're hiding behind a gear wall and without it they'd defeat you.

ESO isn't a friendly community when it comes to gears and builds. It's "do what I want or GTFO." On a game meant to be relaxing and fun.

Bug off, Elite players. This game is supposed to be FUN and RELAXING that's why it's called a GAME.

Thanks for saying this.

I'm a casual. Strangely enough, I'm not ashamed of that. For me, the bigger personal shame would come from realizing all I did all day was play video games.

But really, why is this idea even a thing? What legitimate purpose would anyone have for inspecting someone else's armor, weapons, skills, etc. other than simple exclusion or ridicule? If you want to find out why they're so good, ask them. If you like their armor, ask. I've done this several times and people are happy to tell you.

This thread reminds me of a joke my dad used to tell:

So there was this man who lived his entire life trying to be as good as he could be. But he never joined the [insert church name here]. Every month, the pastor would come and try to get him to join, but he refused. Every week, the pastor would tell him was going to go to hell.

Finally, he died. To his surprise, he found himself in heaven. St. Peter greeted him warmly, complimented him for his life choices, and then offered to give him a tour. As they walked around heaven, the man kept noticing a very tall wall in the distance. When he could no longer contain his curiosity, he asked St. Peter what the wall was for.

St. Peter replied: "That's for the [church members]. They think they're the only ones here."

I call myself casual hardcore because I don't play video games as much anymore but still play as a min/maxer, elite, hardcore, whatever you want to label it as.

I find the tool useful. Not every day do I care to whisper random people.

I understand everyone's animosity towards it. I understand both sides of the fence. Some of us still want the tool because we dont use it the way people are upset about.

bedlom · May 2016

I don't think you can.

RebornV3x · May 2016

I hope this never becomes an option

Asherons_Call · May 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Well, that didn't take long to descend into Elites vs Casuals.

Good job all!

That's exactly what this subject is though. Inspection of other players has two negative functions - 1. For arrogant people to show off and 2. To evaluate if someone is "worthy" of joining your elite guild or group

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Well, that didn't take long to descend into Elites vs Casuals.

Good job all!

That's exactly what this subject is though. Inspection of other players has two negative functions - 1. For arrogant people to show off and 2. To evaluate if someone is "worthy" of joining your elite guild or group

You forgot 3. Decide if the player has the gear to carry the under preforming 'play the way i want build' through the dungeon.

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Well, that didn't take long to descend into Elites vs Casuals.

Good job all!

That's exactly what this subject is though. Inspection of other players has two negative functions - 1. For arrogant people to show off and 2. To evaluate if someone is "worthy" of joining your elite guild or group

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Well, that didn't take long to descend into Elites vs Casuals.

Good job all!

That's exactly what this subject is though. Inspection of other players has two negative functions - 1. For arrogant people to show off and 2. To evaluate if someone is "worthy" of joining your elite guild or group

You forgot 3. Decide if the player has the gear to carry the under preforming 'play the way i want build' through the dungeon.

This is already happening without this tool. It happens now with Veteran Ranks and it will happen more with Champion Points after DB.

Where's the pitchforks for CPs? People will be scared of anything that they let scare them

Pheefs · May 2016

I'd want a chance to read people's bio more than perv their builds, but that's just me!

& not to get dangerously back on topic here, but what about this... the whole character sheet has toggles just like the settings.
You pick and choose what they see of your skills & gear...

I still wear my ring from Uncle Sheo & its the only piece of gear I ever let you see.

waterfairy · May 2016

People are amusing in getting so heated over allowing others to see their gear...what would it really do to you if someone checked you out while you were crafting? They can't steal your stuff and the "filthy casuals" will never grind ad nauseam like you have to get some of those pieces you covet.

As for the argument of people kicking you from groups and the like...this is something that only elitists will do and this will happen very soon based off of your CP, regardless of your equipment.