Dear ZOS: Riding training takes too long - discourages alts and casual players.

daemonios · May 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I say the same I always say - riding training is fine, the only change really needed would be making trainings "stack" like enlightment for those unfortunate people who cannot play ESO each day, but have to get their playing done on the weekends, so it takes them six months as well instead of three and a half years...

And yes, I have eight characters, and mounts only maxed on three of them, because I just couldn't be ars... uhm... bothered to log into each of them all the time, so I can catching up as I play them.
And I am completely okay with that, and will never whine for some crap like account-wide mount training or something.
I mean... why should we have this? If your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate is a master equestrian, why should that mean you too can ride well and not fall off the hourse on your first try?

I've never asked for account-wide anything. And I've said this before and will say again:

It used to take 30 days to get maxed mounts on a character; now takes 180.

We used to be able to start off with a pre-leveled mount in its 20s; we now have to start from 0.

Would you be OK if ZOS increased all mat costs for crafting by a factor of 6 and started selling mats in the crown store? Because that's what happened with mounts. It wasn't like this at launch, it was changed with the introduction of the crown store.

Flynch · May 2016

I'd simply prefer that the horses trained up as you used them. The progression is then left to the players themselves and how much time they have to play - and this also means the crown store purchase is valid, as those with little time to play can opt for cash-rather-than-time.

Simply select which of the three categories you wish to train your horse in, et voila.

The obvious downside to this is over-night macros being used etc. But still, i'd much prefer playing the game and feeling like i'm progressing the mount's skills, rather than just going to a stable.

Rylana · May 2016

OP all 8 of my chars have had max speed/bags/stam since last summer. Sorry youre slacking, but its not much to ask to put 180 days worth of logins into something, 5 minutes a day for six months, all it takes

And youre gonna be where a while anyway.

lathbury · May 2016

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

none of them started with 25 extra in every stat plus to do as your suggesting meant buying multiple mounts on each character which was more of a problem for alts.

daemonios · May 2016

lathbury wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

none of them started with 25 extra in every stat plus to do as your suggesting meant buying multiple mounts on each character which was more of a problem for alts.

At least I had the option in-game without spending MORE real money (considering I'm a subscriber). Now we don't even have the option.

Duiwel · May 2016

I use to not have a problem with the system up until I deleted 3 alts to make space for new chars since we don't have char slots yet ( I probably won't buy the slots once they become available because given the thread about the price I am discouraged from purchasing that also ).

My new solution is this OP: don't upgrade them religiously, if you happen to be on that alt for that day and near a stable sure, but don't go out of your way for alts. Why do they need to be max anyway?

Keep in mind 2 of the 3 alts I deleted were 180/180 with horse riding, the third was 140/180 so i threw away quite a bit of gold too

petraeus1 · May 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

Work towards something? Going to a stable to spend 250g and then wait for 20h is not an accomplishment. It's busywork. An artificial timegate that slows players down. It's bait to have them log in each day, or spend Crowns. It's nothing to do with your unsubstantiated sociological analysis, it's the realisation that this particular system is Candy Crush level.

Lysette · May 2016

Casual as well - I have no problem with that - I progress slowly, my mounts do as well. I am not in a hurry.

Edit: well I have an idea for you - subscribe for 6 months, then you have 9000 crowns, you can buy 90 training units for that (at regular price) - so you can make them speedy and either add some carry capacity or stamina as well.

Roymachine · May 2016

Honestly the only thing I would even consider necessary is the speed and that specifically for PvP. The speed outside of PvP and the stam/bag upgrades are really just quality of life improvements.

Arkvoril · May 2016

Just my opinion but why do we need to make everything easier. Everything is always to long or is to hard. Personally I like things that take effort, gives me some satisfaction of completing it. I say leave it just the way it is. Yes I could really use some speed in PvP since I dumped it all in Inventory. But now I am working on the speed, it will get there.

emily3989 · May 2016

Denidil wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

You forgot to put "In my opinion" into your post.

Just saying.

After your first post you have zero room to talk.

so tell me, what about "log in to each character once every 20 hours" constitutes "content" before you even start addressing how it constitutes "challenging".

You DID NOT use the word challenging in reference to ESO, did you?

I use ESO to get away from RL, I find it very immersive and fun. If I wanted a challenge, I would have been gone after my first character hit lvl 15.

sadownik · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

Do you remember how it worked at launch? If not please dont use that silly lines about this generation.

He's right.This generation wants it all now.Taking their time just doesnt cut it for them.And I can say that because I have been in the game since before launch.

"The generation" does not want it all. "The generation" came from kids with a lot of free time to grownups with very little free time. "The generation" doesnt want to waste time on bs, artificial obstacles.

idk · May 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have 6 get characters and know players with 8. It's all choices. Choices on waiting and or spending gold and choices on spending crowns.

Only change I find would be acceptable is being able to feed the 3 different traits once each day. Nothing more than that is needed.

Why isn't it needed? What significance is 1% increased per day? You don't even feel it. You'll never feel or see the progression.

If you don't see the upgrade as significant then don't get it. Some players don't bother maxing out speed on their horses and seem to enjoy the game just fine.

If your comment is that it's only 1% each feeding and has nothing to do with the end result (meaning you still want max speed and such) then it is simply stepping stones to get their.

This thread is really abused. If the feeding of horses is your biggest issue of the game then you truly have no worrie here. Feeding horses isn't that big of a deal. I've never stressed about it.

Oh, look for the next sale on horse training. Crown store is great for things like this when players want instant gratification.

Gedalya · May 2016

I really don't see the problem; I remember the way this was when we first started playing where skills were by mount, and not by alt. Now it is by alt and you can boost faster with cash (purchases in Crown Store).

Eshelmen · May 2016

ESO Plus addition? Two horse upgrades a day allocated?

nine9six · May 2016

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

And if you messed-up and fed one mount the wrong food you would have to burn it down and start again as there was a limit each bourse could be trained to.

The new system is (IMO) way better.

I have 0 issues with the time it takes to train for mounts.

Volkodav · May 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

<-- Is a casual player, has no beef with it even knowing it'll take me 6 months to max all 3 stats on all 3 of my new alts coming in DB.

Lame.

Some of us don't enjoy the crap system. Pushing to make it better if you don't care either way should be a thing.

Why should someone be forced to do something they choose not to? I realize you and others dont care for the time it takes to run up those training levels,but for some it isnt an issue.Why should they have to take a side oe get involved just because someone else wants something they arent interested in?
It isnt lame at all.

Because they're choosing a side when they say they don't mind how it is, but clearly it effects those of us who do not play everyday, or who do not spend time every day to log alts just for feeding.

Of course you're gonna think it's "forced"right? We're unable to lobby you or persuade you that it is a bad system because "insert reason". Having a better horse progression system doesn't hurt you or anyone.

People shouldnt have to pick anything.They can just ignore all this. They have that right.It isnt about taking sides.It's about whether you want to get involved in political forum stuff. Some do,some dont.

daemonios · May 2016

Seriously, some people here seem to have Stockholm syndrome. ZOS turned a month-long grind into a 6-month one (with a quick workaround... if you pony up in the crown store) and you are cheering and calling people who'd like it changed casuals and lazy.

petraeus1 · May 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm very serious.

First off, saying that other games have similar systems as part of your argument, is a fallacy.

Secondly, saying that others have to deal with a system because you did, and that they are somehow entitled or undeserving when they object, is a fallacy and rather selfish.

Thirdly, we have greatly varying view of what this system does. You think it is in place to reward players who log in every day. I think it is in place to bait players to log in or spend money. In my mind, the only one who benefits from this system at all is ZOS. They deliberately designed mounts so that if you want to have full QOL from your mount, you're faced with a time gate or money gate. That's like Candy Crush saying you can't play anymore unless you buy more lives.

It's not like ZOS doesn't have other ways of making money or making players log in. Exempli gratia, making fun gameplay content. They do that too of course, but this system in particular is simply redundant. Generalizing people who have this opinion into your (once again) unsubstantiated sociological analysis of generations younger than you, is rather rude, and besides the point, even if it were accurate.

Is this a reason to stop playing? Of course not. Is this something that should be discussed? Why not. That's what this place is for.

[minor edit for quote and ref to quote]

Volkodav · May 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

<-- Is a casual player, has no beef with it even knowing it'll take me 6 months to max all 3 stats on all 3 of my new alts coming in DB.

Lame.

Some of us don't enjoy the crap system. Pushing to make it better if you don't care either way should be a thing.

Why should someone be forced to do something they choose not to? I realize you and others dont care for the time it takes to run up those training levels,but for some it isnt an issue.Why should they have to take a side oe get involved just because someone else wants something they arent interested in?
It isnt lame at all.

Because they're choosing a side when they say they don't mind how it is, but clearly it effects those of us who do not play everyday, or who do not spend time every day to log alts just for feeding.

But on the flip side of this argument; if you're not going to log-in everyday (either by choice or circumstance), why should you have a top-tier Mount with all three attributes at max, without going to the Crown store?

The mechanic is as it is to reward those players who log-in regularly (i.e. every day). Those players will have Mounts that progress faster than players who only log-in sporadically.

If your play time is sporadic, that's what the riding lessons in the Crown Store are for.

This just brings us back to the situation where it seems that you want a top-tier mount, fully trained, but not have to put in the effort to get the Mount trained to that point; and you don't want to have to pay for it.

Your own argument makes it seem as if you want a top-tier Mount for free.

That's not how any MMO works. Not just ESO.

I have no words how right you are this is why I stopped playing 2 mmos at the same time.

Thank you.

I would have thought this would be common sense, but...

I mean; if you choose to not log-in every day, why should Zenimax offer that person any special way to train a Mount beyond the bonuses offered in the Crown Store? It's that person's choice to not log-in and train, so why should they be rewarded for lack of effort?

If a person's circumstances prevent them from logging in every day to train a Mount... why is that Zenimax's responsibility to help that person manage their life by offering them a speed-training-buff to make up for time missed training?

They already offer an option for people who want a faster track to a top-tier Mount and/or cannot log-in every day, in order for them to catch up with people who do log-in every day. There's three options in the Crown Store actually...

This is also very true and well said.

waterfairy · May 2016

Crafting research is much worse. It's been calculated that to fully research blacksmithing alone, it will take 890 days.

Volkodav · May 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I say the same I always say - riding training is fine, the only change really needed would be making trainings "stack" like enlightment for those unfortunate people who cannot play ESO each day, but have to get their playing done on the weekends, so it takes them six months as well instead of three and a half years...

And yes, I have eight characters, and mounts only maxed on three of them, because I just couldn't be ars... uhm... bothered to log into each of them all the time, so I can catching up as I play them.
And I am completely okay with that, and will never whine for some crap like account-wide mount training or something.
I mean... why should we have this? If your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate is a master equestrian, why should that mean you too can ride well and not fall off the hourse on your first try?

Ok,how will ZOS know who is or isnt playing during the week due to work,or other legit reasons,etc? Maybe they are just not into playing all week,and only want to spend time on the weekends.Should they be rewarded while others arent?
ZOS has no way to pick special people to stack benefits for just them.
Other people might not take that too well.
It's not that I mean to seem argumentative, it's just that the situation could wind up with an uproar if they did this.

WhoThenNow7 · May 2016

First of all, I gotta say I find it annoying as well. But at the same time, I don't mind. Because I know the type of game I'm getting in to. This is my first MMO, and I am really enjoying how long it's taking to progress. The only change I really wish they made was that the mount progressed through all characters. I don't care how long it takes to level up; if it matched for every character then I'd be happy. It honestly makes more sense that way, in my opinion.

driosketch · May 2016

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

Not true, horses had a base speed, base, stamina, and base carry, different among breeds. You had 50 levels meaning it still took you 49 days to max a horse, after which you didn't have access to all the stats maxed like you can now.

Lysette · May 2016

driosketch wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

Not true, horses had a base speed, base, stamina, and base carry, different among breeds. You had 50 levels meaning it still took you 49 days to max a horse, after which you didn't have access to all the stats maxed like you can now.

So basically what we have now is already a massive shortcut, because we can max out all stats and have to do this just once for all our mounts, whereas in the past it had to be done for each and every mount?- Is that what it was like?

Asherons_Call · May 2016

Keep it like it is. MMORPGs are not about overnight success. If you still feel the urge there is always the crown store

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have 6 get characters and know players with 8. It's all choices. Choices on waiting and or spending gold and choices on spending crowns.

Only change I find would be acceptable is being able to feed the 3 different traits once each day. Nothing more than that is needed.

Why isn't it needed? What significance is 1% increased per day? You don't even feel it. You'll never feel or see the progression.

If you don't see the upgrade as significant then don't get it. Some players don't bother maxing out speed on their horses and seem to enjoy the game just fine.

If your comment is that it's only 1% each feeding and has nothing to do with the end result (meaning you still want max speed and such) then it is simply stepping stones to get their.

This thread is really abused. If the feeding of horses is your biggest issue of the game then you truly have no worrie here. Feeding horses isn't that big of a deal. I've never stressed about it.

Oh, look for the next sale on horse training. Crown store is great for things like this when players want instant gratification.

You've never heard of quality of life changes? What is an issue for one isn't always an issue for all.

No one is stressing. No one is boycotting. We're simply pointing out the system sucks. And it does.

You don't care either way? But yet you fight to keep the same cellphone type design the way it is.

I will never buy horse training in any game from a cash shop. This game is Buy to Play. It should have a meaningful mount system in place like every other MMO that isn't an Asian cash shop game.

1% increases are not meaningful. They're not progression. Just like champion points. You don't see a meaningful impact unless you spent 10+ at a time.

Again, 1% mount speed increase every 20 hours is not fun. It's not rewarding. It's not a good design.

KanedaSyndrome · May 2016

It's not insane.

driosketch · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

Not true, horses had a base speed, base, stamina, and base carry, different among breeds. You had 50 levels meaning it still took you 49 days to max a horse, after which you didn't have access to all the stats maxed like you can now.

So basically what we have now is already a massive shortcut, because we can max out all stats and have to do this just once for all our mounts, whereas in the past it had to be done for each and every mount?- Is that what it was like?

Pretty much, though I will admit that when the change was made they offered to combine the highest stats of all horses on each character. So with a month's notice, I got 2 more horses on each alt to train up the other stats. Net saving me about 30 days of riding training.

DHale · May 2016

I have 8 toons at 60 60 60. I have 5 vr 16 and two vr 2 and one level 4. It never discouraged me from alts or anything else quit asking for ZOS to give you stuff you did not earn. I takes five minutes to feed 8 horses. Park them at the stable. The whining has got to stop there are so many things for the devs to fix ..... This is not one of them. Get rapid maneuvers...