Dear ZOS: Riding training takes too long - discourages alts and casual players.

Denidil

So right now to fully max out a characters riding skills (speed, stamina, storage) it takes 180 days. Or 18000 crowns ($180). This is way too high of a barrier for creating new alts and casual players. I think it would be far more reasonable if it only took 60 days at most to max out riding skill. Its long enough to require effort, but not so long as to be insane (as it currently is).

All it would take to make this better is make it so that characters can train multiple skillups per day -

They could just make it so that you can train one in each line (speed, stamina, storage) which is probably the best option [easiest to code]

They could make it so spending a few skill points would unlock the ability to train faster - these would have to be balanced by making them also have a useful permanent effect on mount.

They could make it so that you can train multiple points per day, but each one is more expensive. Say multiples of 250. 250, 500, 750, etc.


Also as an aside - since the conversion from Subscription Mandatory to B2P and the addition of the Crown store they have mostly avoided the skeevy feeling of the SWTOR (and other games like it) cash-grab. Except in this one place, 18000 crowns to max riding skill is way too damn high and the length seems like it is meant to encourage people to spend in the crown store (i'm pretty sure it is not, but it can give that impression). It comes off as VERY cashshop-skeevy.

UltimaJoe777

<-- Is a casual player, has no beef with it even knowing it'll take me 6 months to max all 3 stats on all 3 of my new alts coming in DB.

lathbury

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

Volkodav

I've never thought that training takes too long.
I mean,if I get in a hurry,I'll just get the upgrades from the crown store.And,yes it is made so people will purchase in the crown store.Which is why they made the store and put the items in there.Not to give away,you see.

Nestor

You are not the first to suggest this. Nor will you be the last, as I doubt ZOS will budge on this.

daemonios

lathbury wrote: »

except that this feature existed way before cash shop

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Brilliant idea!!! Problem as usual is $$$. I have no data to support this, but I can imagine riding lessons are some of the highest selling items in the crown store. I know I have personally spent more than I care to admit admit to level riding on some recent Alts. I feel like a horse needs 60 speed and 30 Stam otherwise they are maddening slow and a butterfly will knock you off.

I can remember before the merged riding skills when I was feeding about 15 horses a day. Haha.

Ourorboros

Denidil wrote: »

So right now to fully max out a characters riding skills (speed, stamina, storage) it takes 180 days. Or 18000 crowns ($180). This is way too high of a barrier for creating new alts and casual players. I think it would be far more reasonable if it only took 60 days at most to max out riding skill. Its long enough to require effort, but not so long as to be insane (as it currently is).

Also as an aside - since the conversion from Subscription Mandatory to B2P and the addition of the Crown store they have mostly avoided the skeevy feeling of the SWTOR (and other games like it) cash-grab. Except in this one place, 18000 crowns to max riding skill is way too damn high and the length seems like it is meant to encourage people to spend in the crown store (i'm pretty sure it is not, but it can give that impression). It comes off as VERY cashshop-skeevy.

Pretty sure you're wrong, the long training period is exactly meant to drive crown store sales. Complaints about this issue have been made since it was introduced. The only way to get this changed is for players to stop buying riding lessons. Frankly, zos would be foolish to change it as long as riding lessons continue to sell.

Denidil

We don't have the data to know if a lot of people are buying riding lessons or not. Obviously ZOS does, but we can only speculate

Uriel_Nocturne

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

wayfarerx

There's very few things in this game you can't just sit down and grind out. Riding training takes forever, yes, but it's not like having a low riding skill really prevents you from doing anything.

Denidil

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

I have 6 max riding skill characters, and 2 that are within 30 days of max riding skill. I've done the slog already and am now doing it for my wife.

Just because I walked uphill both ways in the snow to get a trained mount doesn't mean I think new players should. This isn't content, its annoyance and it discourages people from playing. I want more people to play.

And for reference, I've been playing MMOs since Everquest. [snip] I've also done game dev. You need to learn the difference between "challenging content" and "annoyance". This falls under the later, not the former.

[edited for bait]

willklippsteinb14_ESO

Been playing over almost 2 years now and my mains horse speed is 26 and ive put one point in carry capacity, I just don't think to, I just don't ever think about it, why not let us just buy the upgrades as we want them, just slightly riase the price ^^

Valrien

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

Its not work. It's logging in once every 20 hours to click a single button (or more, on multiple characters). There is 0 work involved, it's all pointless tedium that will last at least 60 days to get meaningful results and at least 180 to max out. All this really does is force people to buy riding lessons or not even bother making alternate characters.

UltimaJoe777

Denidil wrote: »

We don't have the data to know if a lot of people are buying riding lessons or not. Obviously ZOS does, but we can only speculate

If by buy you mean with crowns yes, yes they do. I have a friend that has.

Denidil

Nestor wrote: »

You are not the first to suggest this. Nor will you be the last, as I doubt ZOS will budge on this.

You're unfortunately most likely correct. However we can keep agitating for it and if enough players do so they will eventually change their minds. The current mount system is anti-content. Just let us buy the damn upgrades and be done with it.

Uriel_Nocturne

Denidil wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*sigh*

Because the Gods forbid that you might have to actually work towards something in a game anymore...

/sarcasm

I swear, this "give it all to me RIGHT NOW!!!!" generation is going to be the death of MMO's. I get this feeling that they're working to reduce every game genre into the mind-numbing slog that is Call of Duty... Get everything as fast as possible, get burnt out/bored, move on to the next shiny game, rinse, repeat.

I have 6 max riding skill characters, and 2 that are within 30 days of max riding skill. I've done the slog already and am now doing it for my wife.

Just because I walked uphill both ways in the snow to get a trained mount doesn't mean I think new players should. This isn't content, its annoyance and it discourages people from playing. I want more people to play.

And for reference, I've been playing MMOs since Everquest. I've also done game dev. You need to learn the difference between "challenging content" and "annoyance". This falls under the later, not the former.

You forgot to put "In my opinion" into your post.

Just saying.

[minor edit for quote]

Denidil

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

You forgot to put "In my opinion" into your post.

Just saying.

After your first post you have zero room to talk.

so tell me, what about "log in to each character once every 20 hours" constitutes "content" before you even start addressing how it constitutes "challenging".

rotaugen454

Dear ZOS,
I want everything right now that others had to get the slow way, and I don't want to pay any actual money to you to get it. Please destroy that revenue stream so I don't have to wait for something that many others had to.

UltimaJoe777

Denidil wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

You forgot to put "In my opinion" into your post.

Just saying.

After your first post you have zero room to talk.

so tell me, what about "log in to each character once every 20 hours" constitutes "content" before you even start addressing how it constitutes "challenging".

It's content that challenges your patience

Uriel_Nocturne

Denidil wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

You forgot to put "In my opinion" into your post.

Just saying.

After your first post you have zero room to talk.

so tell me, what about "log in to each character once every 20 hours" constitutes "content" before you even start addressing how it constitutes "challenging".

lol Syas the guy whoi chose to place this topic on a public forum.

Secondly: As another one of my detractors mentioned; it's a single button press once every twenty hours. If this mechanic is the one that makes/breaks the game for you, you might want to find something else to play.

This type of easy upgrade, repeatable mechanic is in every game, in every genre, on the market right now. Again; if this is what's breaking the game for you, and is the greatest source of tedium in your ESO experience, you might want to give Monopoly a try.

[snip]

[edited for bait]

Uriel_Nocturne

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Dear ZOS,
I want everything right now that others had to get the slow way, and I don't want to pay any actual money to you to get it. Please destroy that revenue stream so I don't have to wait for something that many others had to.

This. All. Day.

Volkodav

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Brilliant idea!!! Problem as usual is $$$. I have no data to support this, but I can imagine riding lessons are some of the highest selling items in the crown store. I know I have personally spent more than I care to admit admit to level riding on some recent Alts. I feel like a horse needs 60 speed and 30 Stam otherwise they are maddening slow and a butterfly will knock you off.

I can remember before the merged riding skills when I was feeding about 15 horses a day. Haha.

Nope.Riding lessons are 1000 crowns for 10 upgrades.Not bad,if you ask me.

kidwgm

I don't mind the 180 days training. But I would like the training to be across all characters. My main is maxed out and I didn't start a second character until about a month ago. I really hate using the second character because the horse is so damn slow.

Taleof2Cities

daemonios wrote: »

No it didn't. You used to be able to own different mounts with different starting skill levels, so for instance you could have a bags horse and a speed horse, both of which you could train every day, each of which started at level 25 in their respective skill IIRC. In the end it took less than a month to max multiple horses, versus 6 months currently on a new character.

While this is factually correct, it's a little misleading.

Back in 2014, there was still an up front cost (in gold; $14K) for a basic horse. New players couldn't even get a mount until the requisite $14K gold (higher for the other gold-purchased horse types) was attained. Acquiring the gold could take awhile for a new player getting accustomed to Tamriel ... so factoring that time in before acquiring the mount makes a difference.

While I don't have any issues with the OP's suggestion, I do have issues with players (casual or veteran) who can't log in once a day (or when they are otherwise available) ... even if it means standing by the stablemaster when logging out ...

BlackEar

When I sometimes feel like trying an alt I can only last for 5 minutes. The riding speed is just unbearable.

Denidil

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

While I don't have any issues with the OP's suggestion, I do have issues with players (casual or veteran) who can't log in once a day (or when they are otherwise available) ... even if it means standing by the stablemaster when logging out ...

Yeah its not like i suggested they had to remove the slog entirely, just make it a little less outrageous. Like letting players train one of each skill per day. That still would require 60 days. Or making them pay more to go faster, or something.

Unlike what a few people are trying to pretend I did not say "just give it to them all at once with no trade offs."

WalkingLegacy

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

<-- Is a casual player, has no beef with it even knowing it'll take me 6 months to max all 3 stats on all 3 of my new alts coming in DB.

Lame.

Some of us don't enjoy the crap system. Pushing to make it better if you don't care either way should be a thing.

Volkodav

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

<-- Is a casual player, has no beef with it even knowing it'll take me 6 months to max all 3 stats on all 3 of my new alts coming in DB.

Lame.

Some of us don't enjoy the crap system. Pushing to make it better if you don't care either way should be a thing.

Why should someone be forced to do something they choose not to? I realize you and others dont care for the time it takes to run up those training levels,but for some it isnt an issue.Why should they have to take a side oe get involved just because someone else wants something they arent interested in?
It isnt lame at all.

WrathOfRegicide

I'm not sure why ZoS has the wait 20 hours per training anymore, I mean that made sense back when subscribing was necessary to play but as of right now its just a flawed mechanic. Also 250 gold for an apple seems way over-priced for fruit, I think the stable-masters are scamming ESO players.

UltimaJoe777

WrathOfRegicide wrote: »

I'm not sure why ZoS has the wait 20 hours per training anymore, I mean that made sense back when subscribing was necessary to play but as of right now its just a flawed mechanic. Also 250 gold for an apple seems way over-priced for fruit, I think the stable-masters are scamming ESO players.

If there was no cooldown there'd be no point selling it in the Crown Store.