We Need to Formally Address the Lag in PvP as a Community

Sallington · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

I am officially done trying to encourage people to spread out to help performances. Keep zerging and blaming Zenimax for not delivering what they advertised until your best game gets released. Then go play your new game for another and blame them for not delivering what they promised while zerging it up until Zenimax fix this game so yall come back to it.

People would be more willing to spread out around the map if their was incentive to do so (which I'm sure is something you've suggested). Right now, the only incentive is that the game acts less broken. The score doesn't matter, winning doesn't matter. Capping keeps with no/little defenders is crazy boring. I guess people could farm more resource towers?

The whole, "leave the battle and go over there so the server can catch its breath" thing isn't going to catch on unless there's a REAL reason to do so.

They need to change the way scoring works, they need to make the rewards for winning a campaign WAY better (and not just for the top 2-10%, possibly having more than 3 tiers to increase faction loyalty), etc. There's plenty of interesting things thye could at least try, but they aren't even trying.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

Hey , didn't they say Imperial city will have capturable zones in DB ? That should send some people back to pvp in the that zone again and spread out a bit . I really like who ever suggested holding two keeps to retain Emp in another thread as well . Who ever that was , kudos to you .

Rainingblood · May 2016

DB is adding more character skins and emotions. The lag will only get worse, not better.

Turtl3Lov3 · May 2016

Rainingblood wrote: »

DB is adding more character skins and emotions. The lag will only get worse, not better.

Ghostbane wrote: »

DB is adding more character skins and emotions. The lag will only get worse, not better.

Sallington · May 2016

His name is Robert Paulson.

Jules · May 2016

Agreed G. I think we truly need a reply at this point.

RinaldoGandolphi · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Agreed G. I think we truly need a reply at this point.

@Jules

They have already replied though.

the silence is deafening...the lack of a response is a response itself.

What have they added to Cyrodiil since launch? They gave us a dungeon boss AP bonus...so in 2 years they gave us an AP bonus for killing a boss.

What have then added to the IPC? one flag per district for folks to zerg.

Every single DLC game release is focused on PVE, they don't care about us anymore...they will throw us a tiny bone here and there to keep us on the hook, but fixing PVP i doubt is high on their list of priorities. Its simply not profitable.

Understand im not faulting or bagging on ZOS, its a valid business decision. the PVE in this game is very well done, and there is a large market for them to sell to in order to make the most money. I get that, and I don't blame them one bit. They have done a lot right in the PVE side of the game, that much is very clear and very well done.

I just don't think they have the resources to fix it...I don't think the investment makes sense for the amount they would get on return.

If this game was still sub based, and they still had the 700,000 subs they had back in July of 2014 and not launched this game on console, I think they would have had the money and resources to fix it, but now i just simply don't think they do

I sincerely hope im wrong.

Etaniel · May 2016

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

In case you missed it this game was sold to us with promises of huge players vs player battles with hundreds of players on screen sieging keeps. That's the PVP I bought two years ago not this lag fest Zenimax delivered. They need to fix Cyrodiil and deliver the product the promised.

You are not allowed to complain about lag if your playstyle is directly linked to the cause of lag. Change your playstyle accordingly to fit the stability of the game we have now, and complain that your old playstyle that was advertised is not available, not the other way.

The non CP campaign has better performance 100% of the time than trueflame, on locked population, and guess what? no mega proxy trains and stacking guilds there....

RadioheadSh0t · May 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Complaining about 334 server ping? Pft, lightweight.

Joke's on you, I got a gold star now.

One of the best comebacks I've ever seen on these forums. *slow clap*

Nafirian · May 2016

We try We try over and over again but ZOS wont do it because ZOS At this point ive given up all hope and just waiting for CU

PrinceFabious · May 2016

Im sure ZOS knows about the lag problems by now. Im sure if they could have done something It would have happened by now. Honestly, it must unfixable.

RadioheadSh0t · May 2016

FWIW, I've logged on recently and noticed improvements. I'm not saying it's fixed, or anywhere close, but I had logged a few days last week for the first time and was able to play for a while. Sure, it wasn't always peak time, but I've been having problems during off hours recently.

I'll take any noticeable change, but I do understand that those results can be disparate and anecdotal.

Edit for clarity: Solo play, not group.

MichYodias · May 2016

ZoS has previously said they were interested in blowing up the pts and zerg it up EU and NA.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Suggestion: After DB is released and stable, let the devs make bigger changes than baby steps on the PTS; no doubt they have a few in mind already. Have a "kill the PTS" test night and specifically invite all the major PVP guilds, and other players are welcome as well.

Players want this fixed, too, and know how to replicate laggy conditions. Let us help.

That's the plan! Specifically the part about killing the PTS; we will have an event in Cyrodiil once Dark Brotherhood is available where we plan on testing some of the upcoming fixes and changes to gather additional metrics and feedback. Stay tuned...

I read something from wheeler a while ago that made a lot of sense and seems like a difficult problem to solve.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Abilities work on several stages when fired off whether hitting several players in an area, or checking an area to hit just 1 or 2 players. For explaining how this functions in real world terms, let's use Honor the Dead as our example because its a single target ability that has an Area (Radius) of 28 meters.

1 - Upon casting Honor the Dead, the server checks the radius around the Templar (area) as defined by the ability...in this case 28m Radius (an Area of 2463 meters) and gets a list of ALL players in that area (friend or foe).

2 - The server then checks any requirements Honor the Dead has, and begins sorting that list to find the legitimate target to apply the ability to. In this case, the ability needs to find the closest friendly target in that 2463m Area, that is not full health, and apply a heal to that target. This is accomplished by having a unique requirement made specifically for Honor the Dead. The list generated by the server on the Ability cast can be 2 people or 100 people ...it just depends on how many players are in that Area as noted by the ability before it sorts out who to apply the ability effects to.

3 - The server then fires the heal after picking the legitimate target from step number 2 after sorting the list of players according to the ability requirement to apply that heal.

Step number 2 is what we're in the process of changing to be less intensive on the server. Currently each requirement for abilities like Honor the Dead have unique hand crafted requirement lists. The same goes for many other abilities in the game. This includes checking things like lowest health, highest health, distance from target (nearest or furthest), etc. What we are changing is making these requirement not be individually unique, but remaking them as universal server rules which are far less intensive on the server.

As you can imagine, this is no small task to double check abilities in both PVE, PVP both generated from monsters and players. We are working to get all scenarios tested and confirmed that functionality of abilities are not effected and working as fast as we can to get this out to you all and appreciate your patience.

Im personally going to give DB a solid chance because I think they are on to something. This is coming from someone who quit after 1.5 for 6 months. Is the lag awful when there is a massive trifactional stack? Yes. But imo its seemingly SLOWLY improved over the last 2ish months. (until the prox/vd meta bc that clearly cripples the server in primetime with the massive aoe calc).

sadownik · May 2016

Etaniel wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

In case you missed it this game was sold to us with promises of huge players vs player battles with hundreds of players on screen sieging keeps. That's the PVP I bought two years ago not this lag fest Zenimax delivered. They need to fix Cyrodiil and deliver the product the promised.

You are not allowed to complain about lag if your playstyle is directly linked to the cause of lag. Change your playstyle accordingly to fit the stability of the game we have now, and complain that your old playstyle that was advertised is not available, not the other way.

The non CP campaign has better performance 100% of the time than trueflame, on locked population, and guess what? no mega proxy trains and stacking guilds there....

Absolute bs. I never seen Azura pop locked on EU server but when it gets populated (normal 1 locked 1 3bars and 1 2 bars) it does start to lag.

Wollust · May 2016

I don't know about you guys but I have lost all my faith regarding possible lag fixes.
The lag has mostly gotten worse over 2 years. The only thing they "fixed" is the completely lagged out fights in 1.6 where the server just gave up and we would end up placing 200 banners and meteors till the server would catch its breath. But other than that, we've had a steady decline in performance, including the recent patches.

So no, I don't think there is anything we as a community can do at this point. Just look at the AoE cap discussion we had. So many people in favor of removing them, so much commitment from people (look at @Taonnor thread about AoE caps for example), even ZoS stating (iirc) that the calculations are quite the load on the server. But what did we get? A weird response from @Wrobel on ESO live that didn't make sense to a point where Gina had to reask if they will be removed or not.

I don't know about you, but for myself this shows that there is simply nothing we can do as a community. Except for accepting it and trying to spread out. But work together for a possible fix? Won't happen.

zyk · May 2016

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Im sure ZOS knows about the lag problems by now. Im sure if they could have done something It would have happened by now. Honestly, it must unfixable.

Of course Cyrodiill can be fixed. No technical solution is required. Only gameplay changes are necessary. The game designers can incentivize players to change behavior and modify ability and character parameters so players are unable to overload the server.

ZOS knows this. @ZOS_BrianWheeler has frequently cited BWB as an example of a better performing Cyrodiil because of its different gameplay.

What ZOS lacks is the will to fix Cyrodiil. They've barely tried. This is a fact. If you look at all of the AvA specific changes introduced to the game since launch, it is clear ZOS is not trying.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems AvA is on life support and the future of ESO PVP will be instanced.

Mojmir · May 2016

it isn't just cyrodiil either.every trial and every pledge has us reloading or restarting from crashes.the "spreading out" excuse doesn't hold merit anymore.

KisoValley · May 2016

The PVP on this game makes me miss PVP on Oldschool Runescape that's how unplayable it is.

Unfortunately I've gave up on getting a valid response from Zenimax. Their silence answers everything. PVP will most likely never get fixed and I know a few people who are looking for a new game to play with PVP that is playable. Sure me and my friends aren't the only ones.

Darnathian · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

I am officially done trying to encourage people to spread out to help performances. Keep zerging and blaming Zenimax for not delivering what they advertised until your best game gets released. Then go play your new game for another and blame them for not delivering what they promised while zerging it up until Zenimax fix this game so yall come back to it.

Hold your breath waiting for that to happen. lol.

Armitas · May 2016

Before it begins, please do not start blaming guilds and players and zergs for the lag. None of us wins by that, we all bought a game touting large scale warfare. If we derail over the personal blame game nothing will be accomplished.

masterbroodub17_ESO · May 2016

Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are going to rob this game of all it's PvP player base without even having to try at this point. Lets be honest, those games will be much better PvP because that's their focus anyway.....

Armitas · May 2016

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

1 - Upon casting Honor the Dead, the server checks the radius around the Templar (area) as defined by the ability...in this case 28m Radius (an Area of 2463 meters) and gets a list of ALL players in that area (friend or foe).

2 - The server then checks any requirements Honor the Dead has, and begins sorting that list to find the legitimate target to apply the ability to. In this case, the ability needs to find the closest friendly target in that 2463m Area, that is not full health, and apply a heal to that target. This is accomplished by having a unique requirement made specifically for Honor the Dead. The list generated by the server on the Ability cast can be 2 people or 100 people ...it just depends on how many players are in that Area as noted by the ability before it sorts out who to apply the ability effects to.

3 - The server then fires the heal after picking the legitimate target from step number 2 after sorting the list of players according to the ability requirement to apply that heal.

Step number 2 is what we're in the process of changing

What if every Character had a regularly updated identifier flag such as 008G1/Y/G5/M.
008G1 references the coordinate in a grid pattern
Y references Alliance
G5 References the Group they are a member of (each group that is formed is assigned a new group number)
M references the smart heal situation, High, medium, low, or very low health rather than a numerical cross reference. (note: if there is a contest then proximity or max health could be used to determine priority)

So what if the heal requests a list for all the Y flagged characters in the grid spaces delineated from 008G1 based on area of effect size. Once the list is generated it queries for characters in the list of the same group (G5) and then it queries the list for characters in the list with the Low health flag, then medium then high.

So you are not querying the server against the entire data base, just the grid spaces that are a calculated by delineation from the casters regularly updated identifier flag, 008G1 and the skills area size. Once the list is given from the server the client can generate the rest of the queries based on the list of characters and their identifier flags that were given in the first step.

I'm not a programmer, so this could be way off base and almost certainly glib. But nothing ever came of burying ideas in the dirt.

Jules · May 2016

Etaniel wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

In case you missed it this game was sold to us with promises of huge players vs player battles with hundreds of players on screen sieging keeps. That's the PVP I bought two years ago not this lag fest Zenimax delivered. They need to fix Cyrodiil and deliver the product the promised.

You are not allowed to complain about lag if your playstyle is directly linked to the cause of lag. Change your playstyle accordingly to fit the stability of the game we have now, and complain that your old playstyle that was advertised is not available, not the other way.

The non CP campaign has better performance 100% of the time than trueflame, on locked population, and guess what? no mega proxy trains and stacking guilds there....

I kindof agree with both of you here. Yes, ZOS did promise a product that is not currently viable and I understand the frustration and "well-imma-do-it-anyway-and-they-can-figure-it-out" attitude that comes with that. Problem is, the rest of us suffer. I think @Etaniel honestly made a good point. If your playstyle directly contributes to lag, change your playstyle to suit the game we have, not the game we want.

If you can't have the one you love, love the one you're with.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

That requires the cooperation of everyone on the whole campaign.
The US tried that one with small scale.
They tried..it worked for a while...then becuase it was less laggy everyone else jumped from their campaign to that one.
Straight back to square one.

Sadly, the players simply arent capabale of full control of a campaign 24/7.
So we are at the mercy of ZOS.

We could try a single target night.
Just to see if it would be lag free.
ZOS dont seem to be willing to test it.
But we can test it ourselves......if the desire is there....if 'everyone' agrees.
Cant see it myself. For reasons above.

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

What is unacceptable for me is people forgetting how 15 man groups are not zergs.

What is unacceptable is all the video proof out there of when the game had huge player battles with none, to little lag.

What is unacceptable is blaming the players. We didn't design the game. We didn't market large player siege battles. We sure as hell didn't break it when it worked at one point.

Carry on though, Sir Knight.

frozywozy · May 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

What is unacceptable for me is people forgetting how 15 man groups are not zergs.

What is unacceptable is all the video proof out there of when the game had huge player battles with none, to little lag.

What is unacceptable is blaming the players. We didn't design the game. We didn't market large player siege battles. We sure as hell didn't break it when it worked at one point.

Carry on though, Sir Knight.

There are a tons of reasons and factors that made the game worse. We are all aware of it and know why. We've been repeating them here and over and over again. It doesn't change the fact that we live with what we have today and if we have SOLUTIONS as players to make it work all together, why not use them? Or we can keep blaming Zenimax and complain about lag while we keep zerging.

WalkingLegacy · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

We, as a PvP community, need something from ZoS that confirms they are working on the lag.

I am tired of night after night of opening up a separate ping monitor to compare to my ingame latency overlay to see if it's my connection or the servers just going to hell. I'm tired of hoping that ZoS will do something about the servers to improve them or do something to fix the lag.

I'm completely fed up with this:

And this isn't even the worst of it. Many players would consider this "playable" or that they are lucky they are even able to play right now. This is completely unacceptable. And as I mentioned, this is just MINOR lag. This is the lag you get at 10 PM CST on a Tuesday night. Don't get me started on the lag you get on the weekends, though I believe @Jules made a post showing how bad the lag can be. Personally I have to avoid playing at those times to at least try to keep some of my sanity when trying to play this game. Kudos to everyone who endures those disgusting conditions.

The point of this post is that we as a PvP community need to stop accepting this. We need some sort of statement, no smoke and mirrors, about whether or not they are going to fix the lag. I'm tired of them making blanket statements about "performance fixes" and saying that things are going well, because they aren't. PvP is completely unplayable half of the time.

Can we please get an official statement on the lag and whether or not ZoS intends on making PvP playable? If you aren't going to fix things and make your game playable I would very much like to know so that I can give up on this sinking ship that you call a game and get onto something that won't frustrate me to no end every time I attempt to play.
@Lord_Hev would you be so kind as to do your dev summoning ritual for me?

What is unacceptable for me is the level of intelligence that players have when they keep blaming Zenimax after 2years but keep zerging it up playing in absurd large groups and stacking with 60-80+ players on the screen. They don't try to change their playstyle and behaviours ingame to help the server. That's even worse than Zenimax not holding their promises in my book.

What is unacceptable for me is people forgetting how 15 man groups are not zergs.

What is unacceptable is all the video proof out there of when the game had huge player battles with none, to little lag.

What is unacceptable is blaming the players. We didn't design the game. We didn't market large player siege battles. We sure as hell didn't break it when it worked at one point.

Carry on though, Sir Knight.

There are a tons of reasons and factors that made the game worse. We are all aware of it and know why. We've been repeating them here and over and over again. It doesn't change the fact that we live with what we have today and if we have SOLUTIONS as players to make it work all together, why not use them? Or we can keep blaming Zenimax and complain about lag while we keep zerging.

Because it IS zenimax fault. You think the bandaid fixes for Proxy det and VD set help the lag any? All the AoE calculations spammed from just one player into a group?

Extrapolate 5-10 people spamming PD, and VD going into a group bigger than that. How did all those extra calculations help with the lag again?

Did you forget or fail to see what the game was pre 1.5?

zyk · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

There are a tons of reasons and factors that made the game worse. We are all aware of it and know why. We've been repeating them here and over and over again. It doesn't change the fact that we live with what we have today and if we have SOLUTIONS as players to make it work all together, why not use them? Or we can keep blaming Zenimax and complain about lag while we keep zerging.

Here's the problem with this reasoning. Just as your words now fall on deaf ears, your ears were once deaf to the same advice. So how can you fault anyone? It is the rules and structure of the game that compel players to play how we do.

That is not an insult. The ESO PVP playerbase isn't a single entity. It's not practical to expect us to act like one by conceiving and following community derived rules that cannot be enforced.

We are all pawns to the game design. ZOS gets blame because it is singularly responsible for the design of the game.

ESO players need to be united in compelling ZOS to address these issues in a meaningful way. It is well within its power to do so. We must hold it accountable.

Ishammael · May 2016

The servers can handle all the players... Just not in one place.

Best/easiest fix is to incentivise players to spread out and reduce group via in game mechanics. Changes to emperor system need to happen. Small scale objectives. Better rewards for actions in "remote" places. And so forth

Reverb · May 2016

We were told in Cyro zone the other day "high Ping is your internet. There's nothing wrong with the game, the game is fine". So there ya go. All this time, we've all been wrong that it's Zeni's problem to fix. Cuz the one guy who wasn't having problems said so...